Just bring back the rift.

Gremlynn · 2021-05-26 13:52:16

Since the rift was removed its felt like we have gotten layers upon layers of weird mechanics to combat the unlimited maps potential for resources. Love the rift or hate the rift, its hard to argue that it wasnt a great testing ground. The main issue i saw with it was its size. Balancing the game around that amount of space doesn't translate well to an infinite map.

That said i think if sizes were experimented with along side mechanical balancing we could see some good results. Say for example the rift returned, and it started out small. Then gradually got bigger after each arc ended. Eventually it would be as big as the current space most families occupy collectively now. Which i think we can all agree is a little too big. It would help with finding that goldy locks zone for a lot of elements of this game that need adjustments.

Last edited by Gremlynn (2021-05-26 13:54:31)

DestinyCall · 2021-05-26 14:53:27

I agree that race restrictions and homelands would make more sense in a finite map. But the Rift sucked for a lot of reasons. Being too small was just one of them.

If Jason just "brings back the rift", it would fix nothing.

Dodge · 2021-05-26 15:22:00

"If Jason just "brings back the rift", it would fix nothing."

I mean obviously he would then remove all the weird mechanics since they wouldnt be needed anymore, but yeah the rift wasn't great beyond the obvious size way too small i didn't like that it was just an ugly barrier and that you could clearly see that there was new land across it, you might think its just a detail but seeing that new land and being stuck in a box played a lot in why it was so hated.

But it could be much better than that Jason confirmed that it would be possible to make a map from a drawing, a paint jpg or even an actual hand drawn map and import it to the game to make it the playable map, not only it sounds pretty cool and brings a lot of flexibility for the placement of biomes since you can basically make them any shape and size you want and place them anywhere but more important it means that not only oceans are possible but would be really easy to add in the game.

So we could have oceans + all the shitty mechanics removed

But i guess he made up his mind, infinite good, realistic map bad...

DestinyCall · 2021-05-26 15:58:28

I think it is cute that you think Jason would remove all the weird mechanics if he brought back the Rift. It reminds me of the hopeful feelings we had when the Rift was removed and we were free again. Only to have race restrictions added with the next update. We were so naive back then.

No, if the Rift came back, I can guarantee that all these bullshit mechanics would stay right where they are. Jason is a hoarder. He doesn't remove dead content or broken mechanics, he just layers more on top. And anyways .. why take them out if they are working exactly as he intended? Last I checked, Jason feels the game is in a good place right now. He wouldn't want to mess with that.

And I hate to break it to you, Dodge, but oceans are a pipe-dream. They have been shot down repeatedly as "out of scope" for a one-man project. I agree that mountains and oceans would be an excellent way to provide realistic limits to our game-space. There are many ways that they could be utilized to solve certain problems caused by the infinite map. But I just don't see that in OHOL's future.

This game is built around having an infinite map. It becomes rapidly unplayable when we are confined, because resources are non-renewing and poorly distributed. To make a limited map actually functional and fun to play would require a ton of planning and a lot of work before it is unleashed on the user base. Does that sound like any of the major updates we have received in the past?

We would be lucky if he even made the box bigger this time.

Dodge · 2021-05-26 16:34:14

It's not "cute" these mechanics where literally added because he's trying to recreate limited ressources in an infinite world, so if the world is not infinite then these mechanics dont make sense anymore and can be removed.

Family iron mechanic: added because he wants to limit the ammount of iron each family has access to, something that happens naturally if the map is not infinite.

Family homeland mechanic: added for basically the same reason but for water, also useless if map is not infinite.

Biome restriction: added so that different families are tied to different biomes and to force "trade": with the possibility to place biome everywhere and with oceans you can have the south americans actually be across the ocean and have their own land.

And regarding the "out of scope" it's not at all Jason confirmed that with drawn maps it wouldnt be an issue.

Maybe you dont understand but if the map is generated from a drawing then adding oceans becomes literally as easy as drawing some blue circles on microsoft paint.

It only becomes unplayable if it's a small rift box, is planet earth "unplayable" because it's limited in size or because some of it's ressources eventually run out, no, and regarding the ressources runnint out that's exactly the challenge and even a very real one since we are going to run out of oil ourselves at one point.

A ton of planning, No, some planning, yes

But if he really wants to make his game eventually go in the right direction he cant keep stacking dumb mechanics and needs to change the foundations.

So if me thinking that he wants to make his game good is "cute" then that means you believe he doesn't give a shit anymore and that the game is going to keep getting worse or stay bad and if that's the case you/we might as well leave since there's no reason to stay.

I think it's cynical to think that Jason doesn't eventually wants his game to become more than this boring mess.

But maybe you're right maybe i'm naive and he's just cashing out at this point and from now on he's only going to add more objects to milk as much money as possible from all the content frogs that would suck dick for a couple drawings of a hamburger or being able to make an anvil that doesn't look like a flat rock.

JonySky · 2021-05-26 16:48:12

A more dynamic map could work perfectly in a rift

The problem is that we currently have a static map, without dynamic events, and without development alternatives (we always found cities in the same biomes)

It is an infinite map, but we always create the cities exactly the same

We have no alternatives to develop different types of cities and cultures

Water or iron (for example) are always extracted in the same places and in the same way
We always have to stand near a well to get water ... there are no alternatives

All this creates another problem ... repetition and boredom.
We have all thought that traveling from one city to another is tremendously boring and monotonous.

that's why even though the map is infinite, we always feel like we're in a rift

I must add that this is a perfectly solvable problem, but it will not be done ...

Last edited by JonySky (2021-05-26 17:01:42)

Palacio · 2021-05-26 19:46:44

I am a little disappointed from the constant complaints from some people in the community. I think that every system has its drawbacks, and I think the current system of regularly moving to a new place has its advantages.

If you would stay in the same position for very long, it would make all towns very elaborate, where every improvement you could possibly think of has already been done. Being in one place for long necessitates that you arrive at some kind of steady state, which by definition is quite boring.

Since the game is by definition limited, of course there will be repetitions of experiences, it can't always be helped. The idea of moving to new places does have the advantage that you are always making a fresh start with new people, and nothing is preventing us from doing it differently every time. This is what I think the strong point of the game: that it generates stories. Some of us have so much experience by now that we tend to forget how dynamic the game is from the viewpoint of a less experienced player.

I don't mean to say that the current situation can't be improved. It can certainly be tweaked and even overturned. I hope Jason finds time to continue working on the game, and that we as players join him in experimenting further.

DestinyCall · 2021-05-26 22:58:29

Dodge wrote:

It's not "cute" these mechanics where literally added because he's trying to recreate limited ressources in an infinite world, so if the world is not infinite then these mechanics dont make sense anymore and can be removed.

Yes, it is absolutely adorable that you think it is obvious that Jason will take something out of OHOL just because it no longer serves any purpose and makes no sense to keep it in.

Are we even playing the same game, Dodge?

Dodge wrote:

And regarding the "out of scope" it's not at all Jason confirmed that with drawn maps it wouldnt be an issue.
Maybe you dont understand but if the map is generated from a drawing then adding oceans becomes literally as easy as drawing some blue circles on microsoft paint.

Yeah, maybe I don't understand. For some reason, I thought that Jason might need to program a few other things to make oceans work like oceans. But if it is as easy as coloring some squares blue, I don't see any problem. My bad.

Dodge wrote:

So if me thinking that he wants to make his game good is "cute" then that means you believe he doesn't give a shit anymore and that the game is going to keep getting worse or stay bad and if that's the case you/we might as well leave since there's no reason to stay.
I think it's cynical to think that Jason doesn't eventually wants his game to become more than this boring mess.

I think that Jason's vision of a better OHOL looks nothing like what you or I would imagine. And I think the direction the game has been heading for the last year is a pretty good indicator of what Jason wants for his game. And that makes me feel kind of sad and nostalgic for the game I fell in love with three years ago. That was a pretty great game, wasn't it? So much potential. So many cool ideas. OHOL was an awesome game.

So, no ... I don't think that Jason wants his game to keep getting worse or stay bad. I think he feels his game is in a good place right now and that it is just going to keep getting better.

Best prepare yourself for a bright future when he gets back to work.

-Ian- · 2021-05-26 23:17:03

What if instead of an infinite world with limited resources we have a limited world with infinite resources?

DestinyCall · 2021-05-26 23:22:54

Sounds good to me. Let natural resources renew on a timer and we are golden.

Too much rampant consumption would deplete all available natural resources, while barren areas that are left untouched for long enough would return to rich virgin wilderness.

Dodge · 2021-05-27 04:50:28

DestinyCall wrote:

Yes, it is absolutely adorable that you think it is obvious that Jason will take something out of OHOL just because it no longer serves any purpose and makes no sense to keep it in.

He removed dumb mechanics before like tool slots, so why would he not remove other ones if they are no longer needed?

DestinyCall wrote:

I think he feels his game is in a good place right now and that it is just going to keep getting better.

He's inhaling massive amounts of copium.

DestinyCall · 2021-05-27 08:17:44

Yeah, the removal of tool slots did give me some hope. Maybe I'm just being too cynical. But every time I let myself feel a little hope, we get another weird restrictive mechanic, so for the good of everyone, I should probably remain devoid of positive expectations for the future.

I think Jason needs someone who's opinion he actually respects to play OHOL for a while and give constructive feedback. Sometimes when you are too close to something, you can't really see the flaws.

But even then, I worry that it wouldn't do any good. A new player is likely to see the good in OHOL, but lack the necessary context to recognize the weak spots. Many of OHOL's biggest issues run quite deep and are interwoven with core game mechanics, like Eve spawns and the structure of the early and late tech tree. This kind of stuff isn't going to be readily apparent to a new person who is still dazzled by the game's array of esoteric crafting options and the novelty of playing in a multi-player OHOL village. The additional weird mechanics, like oil/water/iron being linked together, grid tap-outs, homelands, and biome restrictions, further complicate matters. Removing them would simplify the game immensely, but would also leave gaps that will likely need to filled in some way. Unraveling all the different strands that make up the complex tapestry of OHOL's current gameplay meta is a daunting task. It won't be a one-step fix. Solving one problem can easily create half a dozen new ones. Many little changes are necessary to support any big changes and allow them to be smoothly integrated into the current game state.

I can understand why Jason tends to just drop a big update and step back until the dust settles. It's messy, but at least it gets the job done quickly and without a lot of tweaking.

Morti · 2021-05-27 08:44:12

DestinyCall wrote:

Yeah, the removal of tool slots did give me some hope. Maybe I'm just being too cynical. But every time I let myself feel a little hope, we get another weird restrictive mechanic, so for the good of everyone, I should probably remain devoid of positive expectations for the future.
I think Jason needs someone who's opinion he actually respects to play OHOL for a while and give constructive feedback. Sometimes when you are too close to something, you can't really see the flaws.
But even then, I worry that it wouldn't do any good. A new player is likely to see the good in OHOL, but lack the necessary context to recognize the weak spots. Many of OHOL's biggest issues run quite deep and are interwoven with core game mechanics, like Eve spawns and the structure of the early and late tech tree. This kind of stuff isn't going to be readily apparent to a new person who is still dazzled by the game's array of esoteric crafting options and the novelty of playing in a multi-player OHOL village. The additional weird mechanics, like oil/water/iron being linked together, grid tap-outs, homelands, and biome restrictions, further complicate matters. Removing them would simplify the game immensely, but would also leave gaps that will likely need to filled in some way. Unraveling all the different strands that make up the complex tapestry of OHOL's current gameplay meta is a daunting task. It won't be a one-step fix. Solving one problem can easily create half a dozen new ones. Many little changes are necessary to support any big changes and allow them to be smoothly integrated into the current game state.
I can understand why Jason tends to just drop a big update and step back until the dust settles. It's messy, but at least it gets the job done quickly and without a lot of tweaking.

Controversial opinion: For all the changes we've seen over the last 3 years, it's still almost the exact same game.

The car is just a horse, the truck, a cart attached.
Every forageable, just another gooseberry. Every recipe, a pie.
And everyone you love, you love, just the same.
Care for them, and they will return the favor, and together, we survive.
Or die trying.

Gremlynn · 2021-05-28 03:21:18

So i know this is a little off topic. There are/is a lot of elements/diversity that we have lost since the rift and pre-rift days. Biggest ones that we have lost that i find detrimental to the overall experience are:

The loss of map diversity. This is the biggest loss in my opinion. First with the introduction of lay lines. Sure the pond well system was clunky, but the designated well system was a bit much. Its fine in comparison to what we have now, especially for aspiring eves to find their homeland. The main issue i see with it is now everything is on lay lines. Wells, iron, and oil, its all predictable. Exploring and finding rich areas is a thing of the past because everything is generally in the middle. Not scarce and not rich. Just generally even to reduce user error from inexperienced eves. Finding a golden spot used to be the highlight of an eve run. Finding that beautiful place that could last hundreds of generations. Now that doesnt exist and being an eve is basically just, find an ok spot in your family's band and rush iron. Over and over again. There isnt anything special to it. You wont find el dorado and you wont find some baren wasteland for the generations after you to struggle in. That diversity is lost. Its sad. With banding in conjunction with lay lines the map is just way too predictable so finding unique area doesnt exist. I played back when the map was completely random, impossible to read, you could have snow biomes on top of desert biomes and have sulfur pits and tarry spots tiles away from each other. This dynamic made finding a rich spot so much more interesting, and you could find some seriously amazing places on the map to settle. We have lost this.

Second is probably user dynamics. Or simply natural family dynamics. Before families completely relied on each other it was all for yourself when it came to family. People would steal, kill, war, raid, defend, and become refugees for their family. These are uncomfortable things but they are apart of life and were a rich part of the game experience. Experiences that dont exist anymore. They were not purely malicious, people were not doing them just because, for attention, or notoriety. They were doing it to survive, to come out on top, to overcome the strict and unforgiving environment they were presented with. Just like its easier to raid a dead town for resources and bring back what a generation of people could make in five lifetimes, a family could raid another and essentially do the same thing. This brought a rich dynamic to the game. I get its painful but it was powerful. I remember fleeing with my infant daughter as a family raided our town and killed everyone but the two of us. The feeling of resolve and a hunger for revenge was nothing like ive ever felt. A desire to reclaim my homeland someday and return my family to glory. To take back our legacy. We have lost this.

The total loss of player choice. Say for example you want to cook a rare food, dye clothes, grow roses, make rubber masks, make horse carts, or anything that is biome restricted. You simply cant. I mean eventually you could, if you invested lifetime after lifetime /dying so you could spawn as the correct race and hoard the necessary resources in some juxtaposed place where no one could tamper with it. Typically doing stuff like this takes multiple people or at least 3 generations as a solo player. That's hours of expectations put on our community to accomplish simple things that could easily be done in one lifetime. But i guess we cant have nice things. We have lost this.

I could go on but these are probably my biggest issues with the game currently. All things that existed during the rift. And all things that are vital for the total diversity of experiences in this game. The reason i think the rift should come back is because all of our current limitations and parameters basically serve the same purpose as that dreaded black wall we hated so much. Except that we knew what the black wall was, and there still was beauty inside, despite the adversity. Every arc was different and i remember every one distinctly. Something i havent felt since, even with all the new mechanics that were meant to promote just those elements. There is a golden zone of the rift. Its not 700 sum odd tiles, but its something. I do believe that. There is a golden zone where we have enough space and resources for things to get interesting, and i think the inevitable collapse and death of society is a unique aspect to the game. Is an arc killed by lack of resources, or by the people so fed up with the status quo that they destroy society intentionally. Its serious stuff to think about and stuff society deals with and questions all the time. I remember ending most lives thrown in some existential pondering. Either being inspired or pissed about what happened, then reflecting on is and realizing i was only feeling a fraction of what people have felt for thousands of years due to human nature, greed, self interest, desire, power, ambition, hubris, etc. It was always different. We have lost this.

Last edited by Gremlynn (2021-05-28 03:33:09)

Gomez · 2021-05-29 00:34:58

There were things I really enjoyed about the rift. The Eve being baby spammed near the end was probably one of the funniest mechanics in ohlo I've experienced, especially when the Eve snatches you out of a sea of babies and decides to keep you. LUL

Last edited by Gomez (2021-05-29 00:35:27)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2021-05-26 13:52:16

Just bring back the rift.

#2 2021-05-26 14:53:27

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#3 2021-05-26 15:22:00

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#4 2021-05-26 15:58:28

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#5 2021-05-26 16:34:14

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#6 2021-05-26 16:48:12

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#7 2021-05-26 19:46:44

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#8 2021-05-26 22:58:29

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#9 2021-05-26 23:17:03

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#10 2021-05-26 23:22:54

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#11 2021-05-27 04:50:28

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#12 2021-05-27 08:17:44

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#13 2021-05-27 08:44:12

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#14 2021-05-28 03:21:18

Re: Just bring back the rift.

#15 2021-05-29 00:34:58

Re: Just bring back the rift.

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