One Hour One Life Forums

BlueRock

Member

Registered: 2018-04-11

Posts: 50

Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

With the recent reactions the the 'Riches to Rags' Update, there is probably no better time to discuss difficulty in games than now. One Hour One Life has had a large skill curve for what is likely its entire existence, however there was an issue of "Well, the town is built now, there is nothing left to do." at the same time. Difficulty seems unanimously controversial no matter what game it's in, whether they be deemed 'too easy', or 'too hard', each player anticipates a different experience, comes from a different background, and more importantly, everyone has a different tolerance for different ways games are difficult. For the sake of the argument, let's assume that players don't face any arbitrary limitations, outside the game itself. Lifestyle is a valid concern, as learning difficult systems, or really a new game in any scenario, does take time, and resources from our day, however we should assume that the players have enough time for a full 'sitting', each time they play.
   
   Let's start heavy handed, there is an eternal struggle between the fresh experience, and the invested player's experience. There tends to be a noticeable difference between the 'Starting Player', the '10 Hour Player', the '100 Hour Player' and the '1000 Hour Player', and so on, though these values are just examples. Hours of playtime also do not account for any external research players conduct on their games of choice, which ranges from none at all, to breaking apart every mechanic of the game, inside and out. With such a diverse range of commitment, how do difficult games draw their appeal to different levels of player?
   
   Many would cite the 'Sense of Accomplishment' in regards to the appeal. Games that are 'difficult' provide a challenge, and there are many that find satisfaction from many different kinds of challenges only games provide. However, not every Gamer is looking for a 'hardcore' experience, and if a player doesn't have the time, or patience to devote to a 'hardcore' experience, then they are likely to not stay for long. This is not a mark against the player, although this is outside the control of any developer, and is based on the player themselves. While developers can provide a bit of leeway, multiplayer experiences do not lend themselves to the ease of adjustment that singleplayer experiences have. Even more so, most multiplayer games pit teams against each other, and procedurally generated content will always have the possibility for 'bad luck' and 'good luck' of vastly different proportions. In One Hour One Life, you find yourself dependent on other players to affect your rate of progression. This is on top of random starting locations, the randomness of players, the randomness of resources, and one of the most incapacitating skill curves in gaming. Even in the best of locations, a player that doesn't know what they are doing is essentially guaranteed to fail until they get a grasp on the game. There are very few ways to circumvent this, as to interpret recipes will typically require a basic understanding of the game beforehand, and managing not to starve until graying is an accomplishment all on its own when starting out. Once the player is able to keep themselves going, they can look to contributing just a bit more than what they themselves need, and thus begins the start of a potential 'successful' family. But how exactly is 'success' measured in OHOL?
   
   Players have made it clear that to 'survive', you do not need to participate much at all in the game's many systems, and it would be completely natural for any player to stumble upon this, once grasping the way temperature affects hunger,  the coveted Desert Cactus Hermit. While to many, it may not be a very enticing playstyle, or appealing, it is nonetheless part of the game, and is currently an option which is available, provided the correct amount of Cacti are available. It only requires the knowledge that such a playstyle exists. This doesn't stop many others from operating off food sources which more directly rely on the player's interaction, and building all sorts of useful objects to help make the group just one step closer to 'maximized efficiency'. Players make choices, and often times they make choices independent of one another, even within the same settlement. This can lead to all sorts of situations, ranging from awful tragic, such as multiple players assuming that Wells have gone unused, to amazingly convenient, like one person getting wild seeds on their own, and bumping into another person who decided to go get dirt, only to be greeted in town by freshly filled water pouches from a third person. While it may seem that at times, doom is inevitable... The game itself provides every tool needed to help push your village forward, and avoid this doom, and it can happen both on purpose, and on accident for both extremes. Success can be measured in a variety of ways, some view that 'breaking records' is the way to get a sense of accomplishment, and the Site supports this by tracking multiple statistics of players, ranging from family tree names and tracking for Generations, to 'Monuments Built', which produces evidence of the overall improvement of the playerbase, as they mark multi-generational projects completed. The game also tracks the number of players who live past the age of 55+ in a life, and may give some insight to how well players are surviving in general. Needless to say, OHOL provides official external resources which promotes certain types of play, while still primarily revolving around player choice. Some may enjoy the life on the Desert Border, some may prefer the task of building up a town, but ultimately, this is player choice. So where else does success come from in this game if not everyone is in it to break records or look at numbers?
   
   Some may say, it comes from building a family, some may say, it's building the perfect settlement, some may say, it's about getting the most hours in the game, some may say, it's about experiencing the game for 'what it is', some may say, they enjoy tearing down what others build up. These are all valid means of 'success', and the game itself doesn't offer this success on a silver platter, the game has no quarrel punishing you for your mistakes, and the mistakes of others. You are in it together with the other players, regardless of what each persons' goal is. This game provides a very Human experience, again, the freedom of choice is completely with the player, and this is reflected in a sense by the 'meta skill level', or rather, the overall ability the community has to use the tools in the game to succeed. Your goals can be decided from any number of things, either you need food, require tool replacements, or perhaps just want to setup a small house with a lock. But by far, there is one goal which seems to work against the grain of the game above all else...
   
   So what is the deal with making something to last forever? Players can be satisfied spending 15 minutes on a multiplayer shooter, be content with a couple hours of a single player experience, and go about their day only approaching a quick, five minute mobile game while on the john. But in a game where life is birthed, lived, and dead within an hour, what is 'permanence'? We need not look any further than the One Hour One Life main page for this game's stance on 'permanence'.

This game is about playing one small part in a much larger story. You only live an hour, but time and space in this game is infinite. You can only do so much in one lifetime, but the tech tree in this game will take hundreds of generations to fully explore. This game is also about family trees. Having a mother who takes care of you as a baby, and hopefully taking care of a baby yourself later in life. And your mother is another player. And your baby is another player. Building something to use in your lifetime, but inevitably realizing that, in the end, what you build is not for YOU, but for your children and all the countless others that will come after you. Proudly using your grandfather's ax, and then passing it on to your own grandchild as the end of your life nears. And looking at each life as a unique story. I was this kid born in this situation, but I eventually grew up. I built a bakery near the wheat fields. Over time, I watched my grandparents and parents grow old and die. I had some kids of my own along the way, but they are grown now... and look at my character now! She's an old woman. What a life passed by in this little hour of mine. After I die, this life will be over and gone forever. I can be born again, but I can never live this unique story again. Everything's changing. I'll be born as a different person in a different place and different time, with another unique story to experience in the next hour...

   
   The only 'infinite' thing stated here is 'time and space', but the individual? They are temporary, and so are our experiences. After you die from your settlement, look at what is described, next time, a different person, in a different place, and different time. There is no guarantee that you will ever see your work pay off from a previous life, but others certainly can, and will. Infinite is not something that's necessarily included in the Player's toolkit, and it is not needed, you only live an Hour. If this is not what you envisioned the game would be, then, things will likely not be getting much easier, and the game will be unlikely to progress catering to old playstyles, and not all playstyles are meant to be viable in every location at every time. The game will not hold your hand, that is your mother's job, so to speak, and much like the chance in real life, you may be stuck with a neglectful mother, left to figure things out on your own. You might ask how to make something, and everyone may stare blankly before announcing that they have no idea. You may run completely out of soil for what feels like miles due to an entire family's reckless consumption before you were even old enough to hold things, and be forced to abandon a settlement, or face starvation. Only Time and Space can be expected to be 'infinite'.
 
   So what does this have to do with difficulty? Well, there are a respectable number of players that feel as though the game's complexity does not reward the amount of effort put in after the 'Riches to Rags' Update. Yes, of course the 'solution' is 'just to adapt', and 'work your way through the game again', but understandably, some players dislike this new mandatory upkeep. Some feel as though it took an already 'lacking inventory system', and made it worse with 'no alternatives', and, no matter how varying degrees of sound arguments these are, the feelings are real. There is also a concern that often times, a group's efforts are undone by a single actor, whether it be intentional, such as removing Berry Bushes, and giving your mother a fair how-do-you-do with a knife, or the drastic consequences for 'casual mistakes', did you... Accidentally place that snare on a regular rabbit? Whoops, that resource is gone for good... Did you just take the last water from the Well? Your village may never see it hold water again... Did you poke a bear cave when you were a child that was left out, and unfed? Well it's their problem now... Did a mom seemingly hide in the corner with all the pies, and begin keeping every baby she could? Well let's hope your village has the nearby resources to accommodate this influx of people... Did you step on a Snake while you were out a couple biomes away getting an emergency cartload of Water? I think we see where this is going. These factors are Human elements, and have by far the largest impacts on your experience. Where you dislike one task, or lack the know-how, there may very well be someone very willing, and capable to fill that role for you, so you can do what you know, and enjoy doing. You may not always have it your way, but games are a choice at the end of the day, and this game is all about choices, especially the tough ones.

   I hope this at the very least sparked some thought on difficulty, as it's a very real element of gaming, and is part of the creative freedom behind making a game. Games, like all mediums, have to balance their appeal for their target audience with what the designer envisions, and if that vision is a game that is harder? There is always room to improve, and there is a strong theme of player choice, and a focus on the impact of those choices, choices that I find quite unique every time I play. Your experience, and way of taking it may be vastly different, and that is perfectly normal, regardless of your position, feel free to talk below about your experience with 'Difficulty'. The purpose of this is not to make game suggestions, but to rather further the argument of Difficulty in general.

Last edited by BlueRock (2018-04-25 19:22:10)

kubassa

Banned

Registered: 2018-04-21

Posts: 162

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

TLDR

The game is not difficult at all, it is tedious. Big difference.

The decay has ruined the game IMO.

---

I got huge ballz.

BlueRock

Member

Registered: 2018-04-11

Posts: 50

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

The game is not difficult at all, it is tedious. Big difference.

The decay has ruined the game IMO.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about what makes the game 'tedious' rather than 'difficult'.
I also wouldn't mind a bit of elaboration on how decay has ruined the game, in your opinion.

Turnipseed

Member

Registered: 2018-04-05

Posts: 680

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

The game is not difficult at all, it is tedious. Big difference.

The decay has ruined the game IMO.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about what makes the game 'tedious' rather than 'difficult'.
I also wouldn't mind a bit of elaboration on how decay has ruined the game, in your opinion.

One word storage.

I love difficult games. Darksouls is one of my favorite games, but i dont have to cooperate with people learning the game, and if i choose to i can use voicechat, and can spend as much time as i feel teaching.

Ive said it before i love teaching in this game, its cool it fits the theme. But i never have time anymore, and untrained players can kill a town in minutes.

By the time i get one thing up and running i have to go make baskets, or make another hoe, or replant all the milkweed.

---

Be kind, generous, and work together my potatoes.

kubassa

Banned

Registered: 2018-04-21

Posts: 162

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

The game is not difficult at all, it is tedious. Big difference.

The decay has ruined the game IMO.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about what makes the game 'tedious' rather than 'difficult'.
I also wouldn't mind a bit of elaboration on how decay has ruined the game, in your opinion.

Having to craft 20 chisels to build a few walls. Having to re craft baskets every 30 mins and all the tools you use breaking and or disappearing such as the mallet. Having to do this exact same thing every life, regardless of being born 5 generations in, you still need to do the exact same thing as the eve did.

What part is NOT tedious is my question to you. Rags To Riches ruined any sort of longevity in the game and made it pointless to do anything.

Why make clothes? It takes over half a life to make a full set that will decay and be rags in an hour. Why do anything now? The game was fun when you could build onto things that were started. Now its all gone and ruined by decay.

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I got huge ballz.

KucheKlizma

Member

Registered: 2018-04-14

Posts: 100

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

OHOL doesn't really have much difficulty.
Difficulty is something that can be overcome. OHOL is impossibility.

It's impossible to ensure a PUB Village's success as an individual - it's a shared burden between multiple random players, therefore you get punished for other random player's mistakes or even deliberate choices.
It's impossible to ensure you always have enough food, within a village, as you don't have control over other your own food supply within a village, therefore you get punished for cooperating.
It's impossible to have fun while ensuring survival, as that means sitting AFK in a desert or close to some berry bushes, away from peopl, in one spot, for an hour, therefore you get punished for trying to survive.
It's impossible to ensure you don't die to a hidden snake or a wolf lagging out or a teleporting on you, therefore you get punished for randomness.
It's impossible to have any level of skill affect any of the previous statements, therefore you get punished for skill/learning the game.

As for what's difficult? It's difficult to learn all the recipes, as it takes about one week of practice or so to overcome this, after which you've exhausted the content and the experience becomes stale.

breezeknight

Member

Registered: 2018-04-02

Posts: 813

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

The game is not difficult at all, it is tedious. Big difference.

The decay has ruined the game IMO.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about what makes the game 'tedious' rather than 'difficult'.
I also wouldn't mind a bit of elaboration on how decay has ruined the game, in your opinion.

One word storage.

I love difficult games. Darksouls is one of my favorite games, but i dont have to cooperate with people learning the game, and if i choose to i can use voicechat, and can spend as much time as i feel teaching.

Ive said it before i love teaching in this game, its cool it fits the theme. But i never have time anymore, and untrained players can kill a town in minutes.

By the time i get one thing up and running i have to go make baskets, or make another hoe, or replant all the milkweed.

sounds like RL

& about teaching, if you like that, then stop stressing over other things which you deem important but not as much fun as teaching
it's not like the town is actually dying, not even murdered people are actually murdered, they will respawn, that's how this game is at its basis, one life is just a small part, nothing depends on one life, it all comes together because many participate, that's why teaching is even more important than making new baskets

you can have time in this game - take it & do what you like to do
don't waste it on things you don't like as much

& i think we will get soon repair of things, so ...

Finrael

Member

Registered: 2018-04-20

Posts: 15

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

Kubassa, look up custom servers. You can go play there for now, it's slower and no struggle. Better than keep saying the same stuff for the tenth time.

Slowly I am adapting to new update. Baskets not a problem, don't make many, only for essential. Tools are gold. If soil runs out in your vicinity and there are no compost ready it's almost impossible to recover the village (need more than one life time I believe). So bell cities after dieing and being rediscovered are not sustainable. 

For me, problem now is not difficulty, but players. Only so few knows advanced stuff like compost or smithing. You can be productive yourself, but those who comes after you, will  always overpopulate. Famine and everyone dies.

I am slowly edging to the point if there is baby boom and some bow or knife close by.... should i kill...noo...but maybe?

Casual player.

Edit, fixing mistakes and stuff.

Last edited by Finrael (2018-04-25 19:53:22)

Turnipseed

Member

Registered: 2018-04-05

Posts: 680

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

[

sounds like RL

& about teaching, if you like that, then stop stressing over other things which you deem important but not as much fun as teaching
it's not like the town is actually dying, not even murdered people are actually murdered, they will respawn, that's how this game is at its basis, one life is just a small part, nothing depends on one life, it all comes together because many participate, that's why teaching is even more important than making new baskets

you can have time in this game - take it & do what you like to do
don't waste it on things you don't like as much

& i think we will get soon repair of things, so ...

I have yet to find a town in which i have the ability to take time to teach. Kid starves, i starve food runs out. Im not wasting any time im ensuring i survive, and trying to be productive.

---

Be kind, generous, and work together my potatoes.

YAHG

Member

Registered: 2018-04-06

Posts: 1,347

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

If you are gonna have a GIANT wall of text break it up a bit or drop the lines down to make it easier to read..

Example:

With the recent reactions the the 'Riches to Rags' Update, there is probably no better time to discuss difficulty in games than now. One Hour One Life has had a large skill curve for what is likely its entire existence, however there was an issue of "Well, the town is built now, there is nothing left to do." at the same time. Difficulty seems unanimously controversial no matter what game it's in, whether they be deemed 'too easy', or 'too hard', each player anticipates a different experience, comes from a different background, and more importantly, everyone has a different tolerance for different ways games are difficult. For the sake of the argument, let's assume that players don't face any arbitrary limitations, outside the game itself. Lifestyle is a valid concern, as learning difficult systems, or really a new game in any scenario, does take time, and resources from our day, however we should assume that the players have enough time for a full 'sitting', each time they play.

vs:

With the recent reactions the the 'Riches to Rags' Update, there is probably no better
time to discuss difficulty in games than now. One Hour One Life has had a large skill
curve for what is likely its entire existence, however there was an issue of "Well, the
town is built now, there is nothing left to do." at the same time. Difficulty seems
unanimously controversial no matter what game it's in, whether they be deemed 'too
easy', or 'too hard', each player anticipates a different experience, comes from a
different background, and more importantly, everyone has a different tolerance for
different ways games are difficult. For the sake of the argument, let's assume that players
don't face any arbitrary limitations, outside the game itself. Lifestyle is a valid concern,
as learning difficult systems, or really a new game in any scenario, does take time, and
resources from our day, however we should assume that the players have enough time
for a full 'sitting', each time they play.

See how much easier the 2nd one is on the eyes?

2nd, I read through that whole thing and you basically just said that difficulty is a hard
thing to make fit lots of different peoples skill levels and playstyles. If you are going to
write out a big long text wall have some consideration for the people that are reading it
and try not to drone on and on without telling them much in the end. People will just TLDR
you and move on and if you get a rep for doing it they will just ignore you completely.

---

"be prepared and one person cant kill all city, if he can, then you deserve it"  -pein
https://kazetsukai.github.io/onetech/#
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1438

KucheKlizma

Member

Registered: 2018-04-14

Posts: 100

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

TL:DR:

If you are gonna have a GIANT wall of text break it up a bit or drop the lines down to make it easier to read..

2nd, I read through that whole thing and you basically just said that difficulty is a hard thing to make fit lots of different peoples skill levels and playstyles.

Also I agree, I read the OP post diagonally, it's a bit too much text for the content and it's not structured optimally for sure.

Go! Bwah!

Member

Registered: 2018-03-16

Posts: 204

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

2nd, I read through that whole thing and you basically just said that difficulty is a hard
thing to make fit lots of different peoples skill levels and playstyles.

Thanks for taking one for the team.

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I like to go by "Eve Scripps" and name my kids after medications

TrustyWay

Member

Registered: 2018-03-12

Posts: 570

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

I am a big fan of hardcore games and OLOH isn't hardcore now, it's just unfun. At least in HC games you can achieve smth but in this game you achieve nothing, repetitive. Why did most of the players stop playing after the patch. Not because it was too hard, but because the game became s.. not enjoyable. Dark souls is fun at least even if you have to repeat over and over the same thing, rust is fun at least even with shit players griefing all you do. OHOL is... beeh annoying, carrot farming and eating.

Just hide the hoe and have a good laugh, they will all die or suicide in the wild hhehehehe, too easy to grief now even without killing people.

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-04-25 20:28:22)

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M U S H R O O M
C U L T

BlueRock

Member

Registered: 2018-04-11

Posts: 50

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

See how much easier the 2nd one is on the eyes?

2nd, I read through that whole thing and you basically just said that difficulty is a hard
thing to make fit lots of different peoples skill levels and playstyles. If you are going to
write out a big long text wall have some consideration for the people that are reading it
and try not to drone on and on without telling them much in the end. People will just TLDR
you and move on and if you get a rep for doing it they will just ignore you completely.

I tried adjusting the paragraphs, but the forum isn't quite catering to that, and quite frankly it looks more interrupted. Apologies if it was hard on the eyes.

I however think you may have missed a few points that I made, but that's alright, the main purpose of the post was to spark a discussion on the topic, and at least take a more critical approach. Tell me more about what I droned on about that made you 'uncomfortable', I suppose is the word, and I could see about improving my piece here.

rodrigo

Member

Registered: 2018-04-21

Posts: 19

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

You should play a little more to see what they talk about. What are you say looks teorical and not from a perspective from who played this update.

The game is not that hard. But the way that decay system is currently makes it about grind. There is many faults that people keep talking about, like when he put baskets to decay 30min (that was insane) but you only can see it if you play.

Now tools broke, but iron is limited. No city will last for at least 4-5 consecutive generations now. Every 1 hour all baskets will be gone, and resources will be lost, there is no way to store. Think about it, each carrot farm produces 5 carrots per soil with 1 hole of fertile soil you get at least 5 soil to farm. It's 25 carrots for each 4min.

If you can't see it, you need to play a little. You will see multiples cities failing overtime and itens everywhere.

"This game is about playing one small part in a much larger story." -> but you part is useless, because no one will keep a failed city.

"This game is also about family trees. Having a mother who takes care of you as a baby, and hopefully taking care of a baby yourself later in life. And your mother is another player." -> Or people abondon children because they can't sustain everyone or everyone die because there is many people and camp is not advanced yet

"Building something to use in your lifetime, but inevitably realizing that, in the end, what you build is not for YOU, but for your children and all the countless others that will come after you." -> Realy? My cloths will be gone, my baskets, tools, handcarts, backpacks and I will dry out everything in the surrounds: stone, iron, wood. Not because someone screw up, it's because the game is now like this.

This part is hilarious now:

"Proudly using your grandfather's ax, and then passing it on to your own grandchild as the end of your life nears." -> Grandfather's ax yeah right....

BlueRock

Member

Registered: 2018-04-11

Posts: 50

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

You should play a little more to see what they talk about. What are you say looks teorical and not from a perspective from who played this update.

The game is not that hard. But the way that decay system is currently makes it about grind. There is many faults that people keep talking about, like when he put baskets to decay 30min (that was insane) but you only can see it if you play.

Now tools broke, but iron is limited. No city will last for at least 4-5 consecutive generations now. Every 1 hour all baskets will be gone, and resources will be lost, there is no way to store. Think about it, each carrot farm produces 5 carrots per soil with 1 hole of fertile soil you get at least 5 soil to farm. It's 25 carrots for each 4min.

If you can't see it, you need to play a little. You will see multiples cities failing overtime and itens everywhere.

I don't see how putting me in a position to defend my character contributes to the conversation, but for the sake of clarity, you have my guarantee that I have been living quite well this update in-game, and have done so for multiple lives.

That is irrelevant however. Very little of what I said had to do with my own opinions, and view on this matter, and more about opening the room to a constructive conversation.

That being said, baskets made now decay after 1 hour, and have 30 minutes of being floppy afterward until they are broken. You can use this tool if you ever need to look up objects in the game: https://kazetsukai.github.io/onetech/#292/Basket
I went through the liberty of including information on the Basket here.

So, you are having difficulty getting enough baskets to sustain what exactly? Is it Carrots, do you have too many Berries, or is it that you have too many Cactus Fruit? Are you at least able to make Carts to help ease the Basket making process?

Also, I've been seeing cities fall since the start of the game, it appears to be commonplace, only that towns would become repopulated rather than stay populated indefinitely more often in previous versions of the game (Not to confuse that any towns have stayed indefinitely). Can you describe what exactly has made it so that cities cannot function in this current version?

Last edited by BlueRock (2018-04-25 22:31:44)

Lily

Member

Registered: 2018-03-29

Posts: 416

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

The difference between it being difficult and tedious is repeating tasks. Having to make a new hoe every fives minutes isn't difficult, it is tedious. If the early tools broke after like 20 times then the steel version lasted like 200 then the difficulty of making the harder tool would be reward, and you don't have to constantly repeat the same steps over and over forever. It would be much more fun.

The decay rate is just too high I think. A tool you make should probably last most of your life time. That way you are rewarded for accomplishing the task.

BlueRock

Member

Registered: 2018-04-11

Posts: 50

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

The difference between it being difficult and tedious is repeating tasks. Having to make a new hoe every fives minutes isn't difficult, it is tedious. If the early tools broke after like 20 times then the steel version lasted like 200 then the difficulty of making the harder tool would be reward, and you don't have to constantly repeat the same steps over and over forever. It would be much more fun.

The decay rate is just too high I think. A tool you make should probably last most of your life time. That way you are rewarded for accomplishing the task.

I definitely see valid arguments that it is more 'tedious' than hard. Assuming that Tools do get an increase in Durability, do you believe there are any other factors contributing to the current state of the game? I have heard 'item clutter' be thrown around as a serious issue, and am curious if you have anything to say on that?

lostlandofcarrots

Member

Registered: 2018-04-08

Posts: 29

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

You should play a little more to see what they talk about. What are you say looks teorical and not from a perspective from who played this update.

The game is not that hard. But the way that decay system is currently makes it about grind. There is many faults that people keep talking about, like when he put baskets to decay 30min (that was insane) but you only can see it if you play.

Now tools broke, but iron is limited. No city will last for at least 4-5 consecutive generations now. Every 1 hour all baskets will be gone, and resources will be lost, there is no way to store. Think about it, each carrot farm produces 5 carrots per soil with 1 hole of fertile soil you get at least 5 soil to farm. It's 25 carrots for each 4min.

If you can't see it, you need to play a little. You will see multiples cities failing overtime and itens everywhere.

"This game is about playing one small part in a much larger story." -> but you part is useless, because no one will keep a failed city.

"This game is also about family trees. Having a mother who takes care of you as a baby, and hopefully taking care of a baby yourself later in life. And your mother is another player." -> Or people abondon children because they can't sustain everyone or everyone die because there is many people and camp is not advanced yet

"Building something to use in your lifetime, but inevitably realizing that, in the end, what you build is not for YOU, but for your children and all the countless others that will come after you." -> Realy? My cloths will be gone, my baskets, tools, handcarts, backpacks and I will dry out everything in the surrounds: stone, iron, wood. Not because someone screw up, it's because the game is now like this.

This part is hilarious now:

"Proudly using your grandfather's ax, and then passing it on to your own grandchild as the end of your life nears." -> Grandfather's ax yeah right....

+1

OxPower

Member

Registered: 2018-03-26

Posts: 34

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

I'll chip in. This game is difficult the same way memorizing a cooking recipe book is difficult.

I'd compare this game to dwarf fortress in terms of difficulty. DF isn't a difficult game it just has an obtuse GUI and terrible key bindings. Once you learn the game there is no further difficulty, the game doesn't suddenly do a 180° and change completely, once the basics are learned the game is easy. Same thing happens with ohol, once the mechanics and recipes are learned theres little room for skill and optimization. So at that point it becomes a matter of what are you doing with your time in the game. In DF I'm building a cool ass fortress with 100+ dwarfs all running around killing goblins and mining adamatite. In ohol I'm the basket runner, going to the swamp cutting 8 reeds, combining the reeds, and bringing them home, rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

The game that i liked and played for 80 hours is still here, the problem is that, IMHO, this recent update made the things that i didn't like more glaring and prominent and added little else to counteract that.

Go! Bwah!

Member

Registered: 2018-03-16

Posts: 204

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

I'll chip in. This game is difficult the same way memorizing a cooking recipe book is difficult.

I'd compare this game to dwarf fortress in terms of difficulty. DF isn't a difficult game it just has an obtuse GUI and terrible key bindings. Once you learn the game there is no further difficulty, the game doesn't suddenly do a 180° and change completely, once the basics are learned the game is easy. Same thing happens with ohol, once the mechanics and recipes are learned theres little room for skill and optimization. So at that point it becomes a matter of what are you doing with your time in the game. In DF I'm building a cool ass fortress with 100+ dwarfs all running around killing goblins and mining adamatite. In ohol I'm the basket runner, going to the swamp cutting 8 reeds, combining the reeds, and bringing them home, rinse and repeat ad infinitum.

The game that i liked and played for 80 hours is still here, the problem is that, IMHO, this recent update made the things that i didn't like more glaring and prominent and added little else to counteract that.

You could be a gourmet chef, but the power is out and everything is rotted, so now you're eating nothing but Spam and Saltines.

---

I like to go by "Eve Scripps" and name my kids after medications

Lily

Member

Registered: 2018-03-29

Posts: 416

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

I definitely see valid arguments that it is more 'tedious' than hard. Assuming that Tools do get an increase in Durability, do you believe there are any other factors contributing to the current state of the game? I have heard 'item clutter' be thrown around as a serious issue, and am curious if you have anything to say on that?

Item clutter is a massive problem. It was a problem before when baskets and backpack lasted forever, now it is ten times worse. You need two baskets just to hold a single row of carrots or a single bush worth of berries. That is silly. An entire bush of berries can fit into one clay bowl but can't fit in a basket? How are you supposed to farm when you need two baskets per plot of carrots and baskets decay each hour?

The only options is to just litter the ground with crap all over the place.

rodrigo

Member

Registered: 2018-04-21

Posts: 19

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

That is irrelevant however. Very little of what I said had to do with my own opinions, and view on this matter, and more about opening the room to a constructive conversation.

I am pointing problems, it's not my opnion it's my perspective.

So, you are having difficulty getting enough baskets to sustain what exactly? Is it Carrots, do you have too many Berries, or is it that you have too many Cactus Fruit? Are you at least able to make Carts to help ease the Basket making process?

LOL, I told only about carrots because of the flux. But do you really need a full spectrum of difficulties?

Plates, Bowls, Iron, Coal, MilkWeed/Hope/Thread, Fur, Tools (even wooden tongs, flint stone, sharp stone, stone), Needle, Seeds, Food. That will be lost in rotten baskets.

And now all the rotten/broken itens.

Let's do boxes to store all. Let me see, 4 milkweed to do a rope, that regrow 1h later.

That being said, baskets made now decay after 1 hour, and have 30 minutes of being floppy afterward until they are broken. You can use this tool if you ever need to look up objects in the game: https://kazetsukai.github.io/onetech/#292/Basket
I went through the liberty of including information on the Basket here.

I know, that was a past problem. 1 hour is good if it wasn't the default storage system.

Can you describe what exactly has made it so that cities cannot function in this current version?

I already told you. Problem is: shortage of iron and wood, lack of storage and so many repetitive useless tasks.

Iron and wood in the current version will make desert cities who can't restart. And storage/repetitive useless tasks make people just feel useless.

That's why all the rage, everything you do feel pointless in a large scale.

Sorry about my english, I'm not angry, I just can't write good sentences in english so I need to stay short or everyone will not understand me.

Last edited by rodrigo (2018-04-26 00:41:13)

mulgara

Member

Registered: 2018-04-12

Posts: 49

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

You could be a gourmet chef, but the power is out and everything is rotted, so now you're eating nothing but Spam and Saltines.

But at least we'll always have a surplus of salt.

EvilBlackCat

Member

Registered: 2018-03-20

Posts: 49

Re: Is Difficulty a Bad Trait for Video Games?

Having a challenge is fun.

Being forced to work is not.

One of the worst things a dev can do is artificially make things difficult. Like invisible walls or daily "talk to this guy and in a month get a reward" quests. Challenge should evolve organically from the game, not as an afterthought because you're afraid people get through it too quickly.