The plan moving forward

jasonrohrer · 2021-10-06 13:10:25

I have been taking an extended break from OHOL to focus on other things.

You may have heard that my family and I fled California due to the compound effects of fires, crime, extreme covid lockdowns, riots, and continuously rising housing prices.

I made a good amount of money from OHOL (probably less than you think I made, especially considering five years of full-time work), but it was never quite enough to buy even a crappy house in Davis, CA. We would essentially be going ALL IN by finally buying a house there.... all in on what, exactly? Our kids hadn't been able to see their friends face-to-face for 6 solid months, and we were trapped inside our house for 7 weeks due to unbreathable wildfire air outside. Meanwhile, people who were committing violent crimes were being released within hours (or not arrested at all---no room due to social distancing in the jails), and downtown Sacramento had a 10-block stretch that was completely boarded up for months, due to riots, just a few blocks from the state capitol.

Buying a crappy house in CA for way too much money no longer seemed like a wise all-in bet.

Our home life---our 3-year plan that had turned into a 9-year plan---had essentially fallen apart.

And we've spent the last year building back up a different home life, with a different long term plan, in New Hampshire. We didn't QUITE escape the wildfire smoke, because the West Coast smoke was so bad this summer that it blew all the way to New Hampshire for a few days. But nothing's boarded up, there are no riots, and our kids can see their friends freely.

Our new home life isn't quite 100% on track yet, but getting close. I generally don't do well focusing on more than one big thing at a time, so I'm continuing to wait to get back to working on OHOL until things completely settle down and I can devote my full attention to it for a while.

In the mean time, I've been keeping myself feeling productive by cultivating Project December with two fingers while my other eight fingers focus on building home life. I work on it a handful of hours per week, in a spare moment here and there. I can't work on OHOL that way.... I need to sit down at a table and draw for four hours at a time.

But when I get back to it, here's the plan:

---Of course fix all the open bugs

---Do several months of bigger content updates

---Figure out a satisfying "endgame" of some kind.

Spoonwood · 2021-10-06 15:16:45

jasonrohrer wrote:

I can't work on OHOL that way.... I need to sit down at a table and draw for four hours at a time.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Of course fix all the open bugs

So what's the percentage of bugs that require sitting down and drawing for four hours? Is it even remotely close to 50% let alone 25%?

Coconut Fruit · 2021-10-06 19:30:59

Go away Spoonwood, we just heard good news, this game will still be developed. Jason may give up after reading your bs again xD

Arcurus · 2021-10-06 21:15:45

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Go away Spoonwood, we just heard good news, this game will still be developed. Jason may give up after reading your bs again xD

at least Spoon did not mention fathers

Spoonwood wrote:

So what's the percentage of bugs that require sitting down and drawing for four hours? Is it even remotely close to 50% let alone 25%?

@Spoon Jason is mainly an artist, not being able to draw something beautiful is like not being able to work at all...

Last edited by Arcurus (2021-10-06 21:17:10)

Spoonwood · 2021-10-07 07:43:58

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Go away Spoonwood, we just heard good news, this game will still be developed.

I didn't hear good news. You also didn't answer the question. You seem to think that there's a good faith intent here to develop the game, when instead there's evidence that you're getting lied to, since again, how many bugs require drawing to fix? It's also awful that you're acting this way, and that Jason is acting this way. Neither of you seems to care much about truth. 10,000 craftable objects were promised long ago. It's been years now, and the game is nowhere close to that.

Arcurus wrote:

Jason is mainly an artist, not being able to draw something beautiful is like not being able to work at all

You didn't answer the questions and apparently didn't even realize that I didn't even refer to drawing. Or you're deliberately trying to draw attention away from them. Again, what's the percentage of bugs that require sitting down and drawing for four hours? Is it even remotely close to 50% let alone 25%?

Cogito · 2021-10-07 08:59:49

Spoon, if you feel like you've been lied to or whatever just get a refund and move on, please.

People hang around here because of what this game might become, not because of some marketing we saw years ago.

I think that's why you hang around too, but focusing on "what was promised" is counterproductive. The world has changed, and the vision for the game will certainly continue to change. Come with us, and imagine what the game could be like based on where we are right now, with who Jason is right now.

Spoonwood · 2021-10-07 11:20:44

Cogito wrote:

Spoon, if you feel like you've been lied to or whatever just get a refund and move on, please.

Steam's refunds don't work that way.

Cogito wrote:

People hang around here because of what this game might become, not because of some marketing we saw years ago.

Speak for yourself. No, I don't hold out, because of "what the game might become", a vague phrase that has no meaning whatsoever.

There is no vision for the game. There never was. Not any consistent one based on honesty to people. For example, as one reviewer recently pointed out:

PokerusFreak wrote:

but mechanics like bears dont need to exist in the game and are the number 1 cause of griefs (all bears do is kill people and provide a useless skin to lay on the ground)

https://steamcommunity.com/id/knightmar … ed/595690/

You are inviting me to put my head in the sand instead of staring reality squarely in the face Cogito.

The game doesn't have 10,000 craftable objects. It doesn't have dozens of new craftable objects every week. It also wasn't getting weekly updates this past January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, or September.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-10-07 11:24:19)

fug · 2021-10-07 13:09:46

Can we keep the screeching elsewhere?

Stormytehcat · 2021-10-07 18:00:17

Well wishes to you Jason.

NoTruePunk · 2021-10-08 01:33:50

Thanks for the update, good luck. Hope it works out.

DiscardedSlinky · 2021-10-08 07:27:53

For once I agree with Spoon.

Léonard · 2021-10-08 15:39:59

Cogito wrote:

People hang around here because of what this game might become, not because of some marketing we saw years ago.

No.

Cogito · 2021-10-09 00:52:30

I'm conscious about not derailing the conversation too much, but I think this is pertinent.

My thinking was that if you are talking in this forum about changes that could be made to the game, it's because you want to play a game that is better than the one we currently have. Additionally, I don't think anyone expects the game to be *simply* rolled back to a previous state, even if they want specific features reverted to a previous state.

So, I reason, people are here because they care about what the game might become.

Additionally, especially with early access games, I think most people realise that early marketing is aspirational - an idea of where the game might end up but not guaranteed. This is a bit nebulous and up for debate, but still I think at this point we know how the development of this game has progressed to this point and have no reason to expedct it to change drastically.

I ask everyone then: what keeps you coming back to the forums?

Spoonwood · 2021-10-09 13:50:11

Cogito wrote:

My thinking was that if you are talking in this forum about changes that could be made to the game ...

I don't seem to recall anyone doing that in this thread.

Cogito wrote:

Additionally, especially with early access games

The game has *never* been an early access game on Steam. I also don't think it was ever advertised as early access on Mr. Rohrer's website. Dozens of newly craftable objects every week and a statement to the effect that one won't be doing anything for the foreseeable/close future are also contradictory, even if both are aspirational.

Léonard · 2021-10-10 12:21:59

I'm here solely for the very good memories.

The rest has been utterly destroyed with very little hope of it ever coming back to an acceptable state.

Erudaru · 2021-10-11 11:28:45

Cogito wrote:

I ask everyone then: what keeps you coming back to the forums?

I come here regularly to hear what Spoonwood has to say despite all the hateful trolls telling him to shut up.

Spoonwood · 2021-10-12 17:06:11

Erudaru wrote:

Cogito wrote:
I ask everyone then: what keeps you coming back to the forums?
I come here regularly to hear what Spoonwood has to say despite all the hateful trolls telling him to shut up.

Thanks.

At present, with recent changes of unbreakable yum and cravings, my opinion is that 2HOL is superior to OHOL in almost every respect, when player population is equal. No trucks or racecars, but lots more content overall. I haven't explored much of it, but I can tell that if I had played 2HOL lately more than ONI, I would have enjoyed a fair amount of that other content. It works decently if you play by yourself. Honestly, though the baby that can only wiggle *seems* cute and makes logical sense, it felt bad in OHOL to not be able to move in the first 2/10 of a minute of play, and 2HOL doesn't have that issue. Babies can get fed at any point in time in 2HOL (the whole "X" face "NO" thing has been annoying in OHOL). And more, I think.

I've heard that In Next Life is due out soon also. With a different, and I would guess, more suitable engine.

Dodge · 2021-10-12 20:09:35

jasonrohrer wrote:

especially considering five years of full-time work

Honestly you can only blame yourself for that one.

You could have used an already existing game engine like Unity and have the same results if not better and you could have easily outsourced most of the coding for dirt cheap, plenty of extremly skilled coders that have very good rates on sites like fiverr for example, especially since it's not a 3D game.

Then all you had to do was drawing, code the bare bones and do some thinking.

Instead you CHOSE to code an entire game engine from scratch and sink multiple years into it, an end up with an extremly limited engine that continuously has issues and is a nightmare for everyone that actually digs in the lines of code.

If everyone that made a game coded the entire engine they would probably learn to tie rope knots too at the end of it, but you made it in one piece, almost, congratulations...i guess.

You have your pride, Jason's "20 year of game development i know more than everyone but pretend i dont" experience, with an exhaustive list of games that could be featured on an old flash game website, this makes me a master chef since i cook on a regular basis.

Yes you can say it "i made this game entirely myself" (minus some nitpicky code borowing), was it worth it though?

What did you really gain from doing it this way?

I'm not good at everything, i'm pretty good at problem solving and thinking outside the box, having a different perspective etc but put me in front of a piece of paper and tell my to draw something and my level of drawing is pretty much kindergarden levels.

You on the other hand you're a pretty good artist not only at drawing but writing and just the way you see things in general BUT you're not really good at solving design issues, seeing the different pieces of the puzzle, the overall perspective and how all the different pieces interact with each other.

Btw this is why it was such a nightmare trying to explain to you different design concepts, it would be like you trying to guide me trough drawing complex elements, and sure enough it ended in very mediocre if not bad results like the earth like limited world that turned into the rift or the job skill system that turned into tools slots.

So, really, why try to do everything on your own, what really was gained?

Now we are faced with the reality, the game is ok on a surface level but in reality compared to the potential of the original concept idea that you had, it's terribly mediocre, all the systems in the game are forced fake mechanics, instead of an organic and natural experience, which makes the game extremly bland an uninteresting to play, it has only value for how many recipes you can make, which is why a lot of players are crying to have more recipes, it's one of the only interesting aspects of the game, without MORE and MORE recipes added you become bored, a multiplayer memory game with some faint aspects of parenting and survival.

And now correct me if i'm wrong and as i understand you're pretty much over with it, cant really blame you after "five years of full-time work".

So yeah congrats you made it all on your own...time to pop a bottle of champagne i guess.

All of this at the cost of the game itself and all the fun and great experiences that the players could have had.

If in retrospect you would have done it completetly differently and if you realise that doing it this way is completly unrealistic, then fair enough, everybody does mistakes it's part of the process.

But if it's all a matter of some god like pride complex, or any other weird reason and the game being good is only secondary, then it's really unfair for everyone you tricked into believing in this project and that are now left with this game...

Personally i think the truth is probably in between those two.

Or maybe you're just entirely satisfied with how the game is and you pretty much would do it the same then ok, but in that case you presented it in a very untruthful and fallacious way, think original no man's sky promises or fallout 76, same kind of vibes.

Because the way you painted that picture and the way i can see it, this game would have been amazing.

Dont get me wrong i enjoyed the time i had here playing the game, thinking of ideas and interacting in the forum for the most part, but i dont see this becoming really much more interesting, at least not with the same developpment mindset, time to move on, will peak on the project every now and then because you never know.

JonySky · 2021-10-12 21:05:04

The plan moving forward....
What plan??

Spoonwood · 2021-10-12 22:38:24

Dodge wrote:

Instead you CHOSE to code an entire game engine from scratch and sink multiple years into it, an end up with an extremly limited engine that continuously has issues and is a nightmare for everyone that actually digs in the lines of code.

I don't doubt you on this point Dodge. If anything, I'm sure you're right. But, do you personally have experience with digging into the code and finding such, as you put it, a "nightmare"?

Dodge wrote:

You have your pride, Jason's "20 year of game development i know more than everyone but pretend i dont" experience, with an exhaustive list of games that could be featured on an old flash game website, this makes me a master chef since i cook on a regular basis.

The whole "15 years of game experience" or whatever it was, really should make one think if this past year counts as a "year of experience as a game developer". I mean it would be like hobbyist/amateur mathematicians/art all over the world past the age of 40 who spend maybe 4 hours a week on forums or studying mathematics/art, could claim that they have decades of years in mathematics! Yea, no. I don't think those terms are intended to work that way. Really, it should have made people think before that since it was so much appeal to authority and disregarding of people who had plenty of experience playing games, but it may have been even more of a misleading thing to say than it first appeared.

Dodge wrote:

So, really, why try to do everything on your own, what really was gained?

Well, he kept his costs low. There is that. But in terms of gain to the final product, the game, I don't see how anything was gained. More like a whole lot of opportunity lost or missed, because of tunnel vision. I remember saying something like that a while back I think.

Spoonwood · 2021-10-12 22:39:24

JonySky wrote:

The plan moving forward....
What plan??

Indeed.

The vast majority of this post isn't about a plan, and the last part doesn't seem like a plan in my eyes either.

It's also somewhat interesting that Jason said, more than once I might add and this past summer or spring on discord as I recall, that he didn't need more ideas. But, he says this:

"Figure out a satisfying "endgame" of some kind."

Figure out? But if one needs to figure out how things are to work, it sure does sound like the ideas of such haven't gotten thought out.

Anyways, I don't recommend giving suggestions for that, because at this point in time, I don't feel that idea generation would be worth it for this game.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2021-10-12 22:44:01)

JasonZ · 2021-10-13 09:04:18

Sounds promising, looking forward to content updates and end game.

Léonard · 2021-10-13 15:33:22

Spoonwood wrote:

But, do you personally have experience with digging into the code and finding such, as you put it, a "nightmare"?

I do, I'll vouch for that.

Laggy · 2021-10-14 07:24:43

This must be a different update that you planned in June but we never got?

https://discord.com/channels/3282153002 … 3015516200

Last edited by Laggy (2021-10-14 07:30:07)

MrGold · 2021-10-15 15:12:38

Let's get funky on a Friday night funkin,

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2021-10-06 13:10:25

The plan moving forward

#2 2021-10-06 15:16:45

Re: The plan moving forward

#3 2021-10-06 19:30:59

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#4 2021-10-06 21:15:45

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#5 2021-10-07 07:43:58

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#6 2021-10-07 08:59:49

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#7 2021-10-07 11:20:44

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#8 2021-10-07 13:09:46

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#9 2021-10-07 18:00:17

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#10 2021-10-08 01:33:50

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#11 2021-10-08 07:27:53

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#12 2021-10-08 15:39:59

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#13 2021-10-09 00:52:30

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#14 2021-10-09 13:50:11

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#15 2021-10-10 12:21:59

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#16 2021-10-11 11:28:45

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#17 2021-10-12 17:06:11

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#18 2021-10-12 20:09:35

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#19 2021-10-12 21:05:04

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#20 2021-10-12 22:38:24

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#23 2021-10-13 15:33:22

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