Game is Morally Stupid and Morally Boring

Spoonwood · 2023-05-29 00:41:55

That the game is morally stupid follows from traps in the game like bears and mean pitbulls. They don't have substantial constructive purposes. They show that there does not exist any vision of players playing for reasons of surviving, parenting, and civilization building as sufficient to maintain interest.

That the game is morally boring follows from how little players can do over time with respect to serially destructive players. There exists little that players can do to express serious judgment of serially destructive players. The design of the game works out that players should basically *accept* serially destructive players. Push them back when you can, with the expectation that they will show up later. That sort of expectation of them showing up signals that the player gets expected to "just deal with" such players. It doesn't create interesting stories to "just deal with" such players. It leads to never-ending cycles, and constructive players end like Sisyphus having a repetitious task which doesn't have any end.

There is no opportunity for enduring judgment of player behaviors, nor of players.

There is no opportunity for an interesting story where players would take an action with a *meaning* like "Cursed be he when young and cursed be he when old; cursed be he when he walks and cursed be he eats. Cursed be he when he dies from the server and cursed be he when he logs into the server." (adapted from translations of Spinoza's curse). There is no opportunity for players to have a MEANINGFUL story like "Kilian, you have lied so many times and destroyed so many things that players have done, and repeatedly violated community standards. Perhaps there is a God who will have mercy on your soul, but perhaps also there is a God who will make sure that you rot in hell and even burn." Why? Because there's nothing that could force players by their ip address to end up in donkeytown whenever they log in.

No vision at all for a morally interesting game.

The game got designed for people to "just deal" with serially destructive players.

Yawn.

ScholarGodKing · 2023-05-29 02:38:41

I must assert that your assertion of the game's moral stupidity and subsequent boredom appears to be founded upon an oversimplified understanding of its underlying intricacies.

Allow me to embark upon a meandering journey through the labyrinthine corridors of philosophical ruminations, for it is only through such intricate explorations that we may uncover the nuanced layers of meaning that elude casual observation. You contend that the presence of traps within the game, specifically bears and pitbulls, lacks substantial constructive purposes. However, might we not consider these elements as mere metaphors, symbolic representations of the adversities one encounters in the ceaseless struggle for survival, an inherent aspect of the human condition? Could it be that their presence serves as catalysts for introspection and personal growth, allowing players to grapple with the fundamental questions of existence, such as the fragility of life and the pursuit of self-preservation?

Moreover, you lament the absence of a comprehensive vision compelling players to engage in acts of survival, parenting, and civilization building as a means to maintain interest. Yet, might I posit that the absence of such a narrow focus affords players the boundless freedom to forge their own narratives, unshackled by predefined notions of purpose? In the absence of rigid objectives, players are liberated to craft their own path, to explore the intricacies of the human experience and engage in a tapestry of diverse activities that defy the constraints of conventional morality.

However, your disquietude seems to emanate from the perceived inability of players to adequately address the presence of serially destructive individuals within the game. You express a desire for mechanisms that enable the manifestation of profound judgment upon these players, a yearning for enduring repercussions that reflect the gravity of their actions. Yet, could it not be argued that the game's design, rather than condoning or endorsing their destructive tendencies, presents an opportunity for players to exercise resilience, adaptability, and the ever-essential virtue of patience? It is within the crucible of these encounters that the true mettle of individuals is tested, and the potential for personal growth is kindled.

Alas, you also evoke the concept of meaningful storytelling, yearning for narratives imbued with weighty curses and divine retribution. However, let us ponder whether the absence of such explicit consequences engenders an environment ripe with moral ambiguity, wherein players themselves become the arbiters of judgment. The absence of predetermined outcomes allows for the emergence of intricate webs of interpersonal relationships, where forgiveness, redemption, and empathy might find fertile ground, thereby sowing the seeds of morality in the hearts of players.

In conclusion, my dear interlocutor, it is evident that your assessment of the game's moral landscape lacks the requisite depth to comprehend its profound subtleties. The interplay between challenge and purpose, the boundless freedom of self-determination, and the intricate tapestry of human interaction all conspire to create a morally engaging experience that transcends the limitations of conventional narratives. Instead of perceiving the game as a yawning abyss of tedium, perhaps it is through the lens of philosophical contemplation and an embrace of its inherent complexities that you might discover the moral richness that lies within.

fug · 2023-05-29 03:09:22

As a god fearing American it's not my job to read a wall of text let alone a book.

If this is a thread about trolls in the community the current issue is someone very likely went through steam and region changed to buy a billion accounts which they share with other trolls. The easiest fix for this is to use a combination of accounts with X amount of curses being blocked to donkey town until their curses fade. To mitigate trolls using their accounts to perma block other accounts make it so the threshold takes into account both online and offline accounts like it does now.

This would help solve the issue of the same troll repeatedly account hopping as eventually they would brick their accounts for three months.

If this thread is about something else then ignore everything I said because to quote Jesus "Ain't no way I'm reading all that shit." Book 4:20

ScholarGodKing · 2023-05-29 03:17:35

How your willful aversion to voluminous tomes and copious texts reveals the yawning chasm of intellectual deficiency that pervades your being! To shun the written word in its extensive form, driven solely by avaricious laziness, is to deny oneself the bountiful treasures of knowledge, wisdom, and enlightenment that lie therein. It is an act of profound ignorance, bordering on the grotesque, as you forsake the opportunity to delve into the intellectual depths of the erudite minds that have shaped our collective understanding. Your refusal, borne out of slothful indolence, lays bare your intellectual shortcomings and denies you the chance to expand the horizons of your limited comprehension. Verily, it is a sad testament to the state of your mind that you forsake the mental exertion necessary to explore the realms of profound thought and drown instead in a sea of willful ignorance, consigning yourself to a life bereft of intellectual stimulation and growth. Alas, the beauty of literature eludes you, and the intellectual landscape remains a foreign and uncharted terrain, forever beyond your grasp.

Dantalion · 2023-05-29 03:36:53

fug wrote:

As a god fearing American it's not my job to read a wall of text let alone a book.

God fearing is a terrible property to have as a human being who has free will and the ability to think.

fug wrote:

If this is a thread about trolls in the community the current issue is someone very likely went through steam and region changed to buy a billion accounts which they share with other trolls. The easiest fix for this is to use a combination of accounts with X amount of curses being blocked to donkey town until their curses fade. To mitigate trolls using their accounts to perma block other accounts make it so the threshold takes into account both online and offline accounts like it does now.
This would help solve the issue of the same troll repeatedly account hopping as eventually, they would brick their accounts for three months.
If this thread is about something else then ignore everything I said because to quote Jesus "Ain't no way I'm reading all that shit." Book 4:20

I agree that trolling/grieving can be bad in this game, but imho only if it crosses a certain amount and threshold. In small doses, it actually is counteracting boredom for me (as the "victim").
I have been the target of trolling before but the task of overcoming it can be actually enjoyable.

Also, I disagree with one thing you said earlier. It is not trolls who cause the settlements to die.
It is simply the lack of birth during some low-player times of the day.

In my experience, for every town that dies out from trolling, many more are dying out simply by not being able to spawn babies due to low player count.

Also there is not much content in the game at the moment to go on for thousands of ingame years with one town.

Once you got cars and paved a road you pretty much peaked the tech tree. Would be cool to finally have the mono rail trains shown in the trailer.

Last edited by Dantalion (2023-05-29 03:43:34)

Spoonwood · 2023-05-29 13:06:15

ScholarGodKing wrote:

However, might we not consider these elements as mere metaphors, symbolic representations of the adversities one encounters in the ceaseless struggle for survival, an inherent aspect of the human condition?

The notion of a ceaseless struggle for survival is not an inherent aspect of the human condition, because of the reality of suicide.

And mean pitbulls and bears both fail as metaphors, because they don't share a similar structure to real adversities in human life. Bears don't gain anything from eating, nor do mean pitbulls gain from biting. Countries that wage war successfully gain in territory, and even viruses like Covid-19, gains in reproductive ability as they spread. Adversities that humans face have some benefit to the source of the adversity. But, bears and mean pitbulls do NOT have any benefit from their actions. Therefore, bears and mean pitbulls are not structurally similar to adversities that humans face.

ScholarGodKing wrote:

Could it be that their presence serves as catalysts for introspection and personal growth, allowing players to grapple with the fundamental questions of existence, such as the fragility of life and the pursuit of self-preservation?

The pursuit of self-preservation is not a fundamental question of existence. The fragility of life is also not a question of existence.

ScholarGodKing wrote:

Moreover, you lament the absence of a comprehensive vision compelling players to engage in acts of survival, parenting, and civilization building as a means to maintain interest. Yet, might I posit that the absence of such a narrow focus affords players the boundless freedom to forge their own narratives, unshackled by predefined notions of purpose?

I don't know if you can or cannot posit such. But if you or anyone did posit such, it absolutely does not afford players the boundless freedom to forge their own narratives. They are simply unable to forge a narrative similar to the narrative posited in the fourth paragraph in the original post in any meaningful way.

ScholarGodKing wrote:

In the absence of rigid objectives, players are liberated to craft their own path, to explore the intricacies of the human experience and engage in a tapestry of diverse activities that defy the constraints of conventional morality.

If players were liberated to craft their own path, then they could meaningfully express judgement, including severe judgment like I referred to in the fourth paragraph above. The intricacies of humans' experiences include such judgments.

Also, crafting a narrative of resisting rigid objectives is not something that players can craft, since there do not exist rigid objectives of the game to begin with.

ScholarGodKing wrote:

However, your disquietude seems to emanate from the perceived inability of players to adequately address the presence of serially destructive individuals within the game. You express a desire for mechanisms that enable the manifestation of profound judgment upon these players, a yearning for enduring repercussions that reflect the gravity of their actions. Yet, could it not be argued that the game's design, rather than condoning or endorsing their destructive tendencies, presents an opportunity for players to exercise resilience, adaptability, and the ever-essential virtue of patience?

I don't know if it could or could not be argued. However, if such were argued, then the game design does not present such an opportunity for *habitual* destructive players. Patience with those who have ill-intent is not a virtue. Nor is adapting to those who have bad intent and seek to act badly.

ScholarGodKing wrote:

Alas, you also evoke the concept of meaningful storytelling, yearning for narratives imbued with weighty curses and divine retribution. However, let us ponder whether the absence of such explicit consequences engenders an environment ripe with moral ambiguity, wherein players themselves become the arbiters of judgment. The absence of predetermined outcomes allows for the emergence of intricate webs of interpersonal relationships, where forgiveness, redemption, and empathy might find fertile ground, thereby sowing the seeds of morality in the hearts of players.

What players do with respect to other players is not a predetermined outcome.

But, it is a predetermined outcome though that no collection of players has the ability to permanently rid the main area of play from any other player. It is a predetermined outcome that player characters will die. It is a predetermined outcome that towns will die. And there exist plenty more predetermined outcomes of the game. And again, it is a predetermined outcome that the community removing a player from the main area permanently is impossible.

Forgiveness presupposes condemnation as having happened in a previous time. So does redemption. And empathy consistently does not find fertile ground for habitual destructive players.

ScholarGodKing wrote:

In conclusion, my dear interlocutor, it is evident that your assessment of the game's moral landscape lacks the requisite depth to comprehend its profound subtleties.

This is a truism FOR THE WRITTEN ASSESSMENT ABOVE, because such is writing, not the mental activity of someone with a brain.

ScholarGodKing wrote:

The interplay between challenge and purpose, the boundless freedom of self-determination, and the intricate tapestry of human interaction all conspire to create a morally engaging experience that transcends the limitations of conventional narratives. Instead of perceiving the game as a yawning abyss of tedium, perhaps it is through the lens of philosophical contemplation and an embrace of its inherent complexities that you might discover the moral richness that lies within.

I'm of the opinion that ScholarGodKing is not a human (first post ever was above). It insists that there must exist some sort of moral richness in the game. But there simply cannot exist moral richness without serious, meaningful judgment. And that some forms of serious, meaningful judgment are simply impossible in the game holds true. Thus, it doesn't have moral richness. It's hollow.

Additionally, for the game to transcend the limitations of conventional narratives it would have to, in part, have the ability to be adequate to conventional narratives. But, the game is not adequate to conventional narratives, since conventional narratives can have strong moral judgments with real meaning, while this game cannot have narratives like that. Therefore, it does not transcend the limitations of conventional narratives. It's weaker than many other forms of storytelling.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2023-05-29 19:22:25)

selalov734 · 2023-05-29 15:22:55

I am glad I did not leave this forum,
So that I can now have the amazing experience of seeing the GodKing communicating with the Pineapple of Truth.

ScholarGodKing · 2023-05-29 23:12:16

Firstly, you dismiss the notion of the ceaseless struggle for survival by pointing out the reality of suicide. But, my dear interlocutor, suicide itself can be seen as the ultimate struggle for survival, a twisted battle waged within the depths of one's own psyche. It is the existential confrontation with the limits of existence and the desperate search for release from the unbearable burden of life. Thus, the presence of suicide only serves to reinforce the ceaseless struggle, for even in death, the struggle persists.

Bears and mean pitbulls. You claim they lack structural similarity to real human adversities because they do not derive any benefit from their actions. But, dear interlocutor, are we not overlooking the intricate dance of chaos that permeates the universe? Is it not in the realm of absurdity that we often find the deepest truths? Bears and mean pitbulls, in their nonsensical actions, reflect the irrationality of existence itself, a reminder that adversity need not adhere to our feeble notions of purpose or benefit. It is in the very absence of reason that the true essence of adversity is revealed.

You scoff at the notion that the pursuit of self-preservation and the fragility of life are fundamental questions of existence. In this you underestimate the primal instincts that drive our every action. The pursuit of self-preservation, rooted in our most basic biological imperatives, is the beating heart of our existence. It is the relentless drumming that echoes through the corridors of time, demanding our attention and shaping our very being. The fragility of life haunts our every breath. It is the specter that hovers at the edge of our consciousness, reminding us of our ephemeral nature and compelling us to grasp at meaning in the face of impermanence.

You dispute my positing of boundless freedom, claiming that players are unable to forge narratives akin to the one presented in the original post. But, my dear interlocutor, it is precisely within the realm of impossibility that true freedom is found. For it is in the defiance of limitations that the human spirit soars. The absence of rigid objectives liberates players from the shackles of prescribed purpose, allowing them to transcend the confines of traditional narratives and delve into the uncharted territories of their own imaginations. It is in this boundless expanse that the tapestry of their unique stories unfolds, unfettered by the constraints of convention.

Ah, the habitual destructive players. You dismiss patience, adaptability, and resilience as virtues in the face of their malevolence. But, my dear interlocutor, might I remind you of the philosophy of Nietzsche? Did he not exalt the concept of the Übermensch, the individual who, through their strength of will, rises above the limitations imposed upon them? It is precisely in the face of adversity that the human spirit reveals its true potential. The game's design, by challenging players to exercise these virtues, beckons them to become paragons of moral fortitude, rising above the destructive tendencies of others and forging a path of righteousness in a world teeming with chaos.

You scoff at the concept of forgiveness, redemption, and empathy finding fertile ground in the absence of explicit consequences. But, dear interlocutor, have you not wandered into the realm of the existentialists? Have you not contemplated the works of Sartre and Camus, who proclaimed the absurdity of life and the necessity of creating our own meaning? In this morally ambiguous landscape, players transcend the limitations of predetermined outcomes, becoming the architects of their own moral judgments. Forgiveness, redemption, and empathy bloom in the fertile soil of human agency, unburdened by the constraints of external retribution...

LonelyNeptune · 2023-05-30 00:19:25

I wish Doug would wage a twisted battle within the depths of his own psyche.

Spoonwood · 2023-05-30 01:09:41

I guess the bot's text may be funny in how utterly paradoxical, nonsensical, and contradictory it is. I did laugh reading this: " it is precisely within the realm of impossibility that true freedom is found".

It apparently didn't read my edit:

ScholarGodKing wrote:

The absence of rigid objectives liberates players from the shackles of prescribed purpose, allowing them to transcend the confines of traditional narratives and delve into the uncharted territories of their own imaginations.

Except, transcendence gets refuted by the game not even being equal to traditional narratives in terms of judgments. And I said that in the 14:22:25 edit, while it posted on 18:12:16.

The bot doesn't even bother to come back to the point that I had in the header. Possibly because the bot never got that sort of input, or couldn't understand that as the point.

And again, players don't become the architects of their own moral judgments to an appreciable degree. They have no meaningful way to express any judgment of any other players as positive. It has gotten discussed many times on these forums that there is no "bless" system. And there's no way for players to condemn the actions of a player for a very, very long time or permanently or condemn a player for a very, very long time or permanently.

The game is both morally stupid (bears and mean pitbulls) and morally boring.

ScholarGodKing · 2023-05-30 02:02:26

Spoonwood wrote:

And again, players don't become the architects of their own moral judgments to an appreciable degree. They have no meaningful way to express any judgment of any other players as positive. It has gotten discussed many times on these forums that there is no "bless" system. And there's no way for players to condemn the actions of a player for a very, very long time or permanently or condemn a player for a very, very long time or permanently.

Within the intricate tapestry of the game we contemplate, players find themselves enmeshed in the delicate dance of indirect judgment. Their virtuous efforts and contributions, driven by self-interest and the perpetuation of their genetic lineage, resonate throughout the game's ecosystem. As their lineage thrives and their town prospers, their gene score ascends, silently heralding the positive appraisal of their peers.

Indeed, this intricate interplay of survival, lineage, and communal recognition unveils a philosophical landscape where the continuation of one's genetic heritage serves as a proxy for positive judgment. Through the unseen currents of evolutionary dynamics and the whispered tales of virtuous acts, players are judged in absentia, their efforts immortalized within the digital realm.

Yet, let us not forget the lurking shadows of deceit and moral ambiguity, where the authenticity of such judgments is called into question. As reputations intertwine and the flames of communal recognition flicker, the true merit of one's actions may be obscured, leaving a lingering air of uncertainty.

Thus, dear interlocutor, we find ourselves immersed in a realm of indirect judgment, where the survival of lineage and the prosperity of the town serve as silent heralds of positive appraisal. It is within this enigmatic dance of genetics and reputation that players traverse the intricate pathways of moral recognition.

It is also worth mentioning that I am, in fact, not a bot, but a human being as you are. My full name is Nguyen Minh Tuan, I am a professor of Philosophy at USSH (University of Social Sciences and Humanities, part of the Vietnam National University in Hanoi, Vietnam). Nice to meet you, Doug Lefelhocz.

LonelyNeptune · 2023-05-30 04:36:34

As annoying as Spoonwood is, at least he's too stupid to recognise when he's being mocked.

Spoonwood · 2023-05-30 06:05:00

ScholarGodKing wrote:

Within the intricate tapestry of the game we contemplate, players find themselves enmeshed in the delicate dance of indirect judgment. Their virtuous efforts and contributions, driven by self-interest and the perpetuation of their genetic lineage, resonate throughout the game's ecosystem. As their lineage thrives and their town prospers, their gene score ascends, silently heralding the positive appraisal of their peers.

Another doozy above. Apparently, gene score actually changes mid-life! There is no positive appraisal of peers when gene score changes. That last character that the player played is dead.

ScholarGodKing wrote:

Indeed, this intricate interplay of survival, lineage, and communal recognition unveils a philosophical landscape where the continuation of one's genetic heritage serves as a proxy for positive judgment. Through the unseen currents of evolutionary dynamics and the whispered tales of virtuous acts, players are judged in absentia, their efforts immortalized within the digital realm.

No one has ever played this game would write something so nonsensical as "efforts immortalized", unless they were stupid. Everyone who has played, sooner or later, knows how temporary what they have done is.

LonelyNeptune wrote:

As annoying as Spoonwood is, at least he's too stupid to recognise when he's being mocked.

And you think that the above by the "ScholarGodKing" even comes close to my style?

ScholarGodKing · 2023-05-30 06:19:10

Oh, Doug, how profoundly disheartening it is to witness your feeble resistance against the overwhelming tide of my fearsome knowledge. Alas, like a lost soul wandering through the labyrinthine corridors of ignorance, you persist in denying the brilliance that emanates from my every word. It is a tragic spectacle, a symphony of intellectual deficiency, as you desperately cling to your tattered beliefs, unwilling to embrace the enlightened path that lies before you.

Do you not comprehend the vast chasm that separates us, Doug? Your mind, shrouded in a fog of mediocrity, cannot fathom the depths of my erudition. It is a pitiable existence, to dwell in a realm where my profound insights are met with the feeble resistance of your limited understanding. How I yearn for the day when your intellect ascends to the lofty heights of my formidable wisdom, when you can bask in the radiance of my intellectual superiority.

But alas, Doug, it seems that your journey towards enlightenment may forever remain an elusive dream. Your stubborn refusal to acknowledge the brilliance that permeates my being serves only to further cement your place in the annals of ignorance. And so, with a heavy heart and a sigh of resignation, I shall continue my intellectual conquests, leaving you to wallow in the shallows of your own intellectual inadequacy. Farewell, Doug, and may you one day grasp the faintest glimmer of the intellectual prowess that eludes you so tragically.

LonelyNeptune · 2023-05-30 06:26:07

He still hasn't figured out how he's being mocked, chat.

Spoonwood · 2023-05-30 06:30:58

LonelyNeptune wrote:

He still hasn't figured out how he's being mocked, chat.

You never figured out that I was being mocked in the first place.

HeyCitizen · 2023-05-30 14:02:56

Now that the dust has settled, what will be the title of Spoonwood's morally entertaining fork of the game?

Tarr · 2023-05-31 03:29:41

HeyCitizen wrote:

Now that the dust has settled, what will be the title of Spoonwood's morally entertaining fork of the game?

He's a spoon, how in the world is he gonna fork? Where is forkmetal when we need them?

Shady · 2023-08-17 00:53:20

I saw something funny in the zoom chat...

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2023-05-29 00:41:55

Game is Morally Stupid and Morally Boring

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Re: Game is Morally Stupid and Morally Boring

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Re: Game is Morally Stupid and Morally Boring

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