For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

jasonrohrer · 2018-04-27 02:26:13

Some people say, "Hey, the trailer promised that I could leave a legacy, and now I can't!"

If everything that you make lasts forever, and thus the world is filled to the brim with the stuff made by others, how exactly is your contribution meaningful to anyone?

What legacy is there in a forever-wall if there are walls everywhere?

Isn't building a wall that lasts 5 lifetimes, and then having your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchild care about that wall enough to repair it when it finally cracks even MORE meaningful than a forever wall?

Old things are meaningful BECAUSE things decay. If nothing decayed, there would be no old things, because everything would be old.

And stone walls currently last forever, and even become old walls.... sounds like a meaningful legacy to me. Same with bell towers, which take 18 generations to build.

The people who see these things are seeing something really special.

Thus, the legacy opportunities in the game are deeper and more meaningful now than they have ever been.

Angel Carrillo · 2018-04-27 02:31:41

Got your point. I came to make a contribution to this game and have fun in it's developing states.

Xuhybrid · 2018-04-27 02:32:21

Leaving a legacy for my family vs leaving a legacy for strangers to stumble upon, are two different things.

Right now some people would argue that we don't have either, and we'd at least like one.

Edit: I do have to say though, that the problem stems from how difficult the game has become, and that people aren't seeing the legacy due to lack of progression.

Last edited by Xuhybrid (2018-04-27 02:34:00)

Turnipseed · 2018-04-27 03:26:05

ive tried to build stone walls best i can do in one life is a 3x3 hut... other than that, and forges nothing is really a legacy.. of course i have to make two chisels to do it, usually while source'n the iron while tending the fire and farming carrots

Thorware · 2018-04-27 04:06:28

Ah, so the way to leave a legacy is to permanently block tiles and to remove their ability to store objects, that is, make stone walls.

It's hard to imagine what survival benefit is granted by a wall. The most direct use is probably sheep pens. Otherwise, maybe some vague organizational use in "towns," and I believe they make nearby tiles slightly warmer, which is of virtually no use.

I would like to help my kids and descendants survive more easily. Or at least, help some random person in the future who happened upon my life's work survive more easily. That's a real legacy. But that's only fantasy. My clothes will rot, my food will be decimated by baby explosions, my tools will be squandered or lost, my farming setups will be misused and vandalized. All this as the local area is ravaged by mismanagement from the capricious public and made ever more inhospitable.

What goal ought an experienced and motivated player to pursue? You imply that the most effective way to leave a legacy is to build stone walls. So it will be as many stone walls as possible. In as many empty tiles as we can. Come, everyone! Gather the required big rocks for stone walls from far and wide and dedicate your life to the task! Imagine when future generations come across our walls! "Ah," they will think, "How wondrous that these walls were built so long ago!" A touching moment indeed, a moment most profound.

A bell tower? Ah, so Eves were spawned in a location with plenty of infinite wild berry bushes enough times over a long enough time span to construct one. How marvelous. Come from the ends of the earth, follow your home marker across the map! If you happen to be able to reach this spot before dying of old age, and survive the journey without tripping over a snake behind a tree, you will see this marvelous bell tower that has been built piece-by-piece by the ancients. Stand in awe and wonder at how it could be possible that so many big rocks were found...

If a bell tower could only be made by a single family line, it would be an admirable achievement (and on a public server, practically impossible). As it stands with random Eves trickling into the site, it is merely an accident, and an inevitability. And certainly does not provide any meaningful survival benefit.

rodrigo · 2018-04-27 04:16:51

jasonrohrer wrote:

Some people say, "Hey, the trailer promised that I could leave a legacy, and now I can't!"
If everything that you make lasts forever, and thus the world is filled to the brim with the stuff made by others, how exactly is your contribution meaningful to anyone?
What legacy is there in a forever-wall if there are walls everywhere?
Isn't building a wall that lasts 5 lifetimes, and then having your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchild care about that wall enough to repair it when it finally cracks even MORE meaningful than a forever wall?
Old things are meaningful BECAUSE things decay. If nothing decayed, there would be no old things, because everything would be old.

And stone walls currently last forever, and even become old walls.... sounds like a meaningful legacy to me. Same with bell towers, which take 18 generations to build.
The people who see these things are seeing something really special.

Thus, the legacy opportunities in the game are deeper and more meaningful now than they have ever been.

The problem first is storage, the decay system just made storage a huge problem.

The second problem is with iron, every generation they became more and more with an iron problem. Hoes break so much fast. It's funny that knifes don't break and we have a problem with murderers. "Son, this knife was from your grandpa who killed hundreds of people, keep his legacy".

The third problem is that we can't replant trees.

Without iron and wood you can't do anything. So that ancient walls are just ruins of an ancient kingdon.

This is a problem, server will became with desert areas that everyone will just avoid. Making the game map huge without reason.

I think that slow dying everyone is not the right way. You should focus in enemies and things to do, like exploring to find gold or other resources (not the basic ones), buildings that is insanely hard to do but really usefull like some ceiling (with 50-100 straight branchs to make one).

Monuments are a really good idea. But the bell now is just from a dead city.

If people could replant trees, but is slow. Would be ok. Like 2-3 hours to be fully grow.

Avalikia · 2018-04-27 07:47:34

jasonrohrer wrote:

And stone walls currently last forever, and even become old walls.... sounds like a meaningful legacy to me. Same with bell towers, which take 18 generations to build.
The people who see these things are seeing something really special.

See, here's a thing I don't understand - why are the only things that count as leaving a legacy the overt, visible evidence of something you do?

Let me give an example:

Say you're in a young village, just managing to keep a carrot farm going, and all you do with your life is hunt rabbits. You're definitely doing a useful thing, providing the resources of clothing and a bit of food for your young village, but all the skins will surely be made into clothing that will decay within a few hours, and the food will be eaten faster still. So you'll leave no direct evidence that you were ever there.

BUT! By clothing your fellow villagers and providing that bit of food, you eased the burden on the farm. It became easier for everyone to live, so the number of people required to tend the farm was reduced, freeing up some of them to work on other projects, like a forge and a bakery. Perhaps these projects were not even fully set up before you reached the end of your 60 minutes, but the clothing you made still kept everyone warm while they did so. Eventually the clothing you made wore out, but by the time it did so your family's descendants could go hunt more easily than you did, perhaps with a pie to eat and a cart to haul them all back. Meanwhile, the pies and carts also made it much easier for people to build those more visible and lasting things like bell towers and stone walls.

So my question is: Did you not leave a legacy to be proud of? Not a visible one directly caused by you yourself, no, but does that mean that your contribution was not meaningful to everyone who came after you? After all, as invisible as your contribution was in the end, it helped get that first set of tools and first batch of pies made, which in turn laid the foundation for other players to do even more. A stone wall is a legacy of not just the player who happened to build it, but every player who did invisible things that made it so that player had the time and resources to do it.

Then again, you can't even take full credit for your own contribution - someone even more invisible than you grew those carrots you ate while you hunted rabbits...

Roolstar · 2018-04-27 09:47:10

I agree with you @Avalikia.

Jason is now facing a real obstacle, and it's not in game design or balance. It's the human perception of leaving a legacy.

"I want my farm to be there for the rest of time", said so many people across the ages. "I want my building to be seen from far away and by everyone". "I want my stuff to last forever".

In other words, "how is what I'm doing everyday a long lasting contribution if I can't SEE it in the future?" A limited view, for a limited creature.

I'm not talking about the "game", I get the frustration "players" are feeling. Those details with decay and structures are not at all important to me. The game itself is irrelevant. It's what humans will turn it into that's interesting.

If your personal contributions become virtually undetectable in the future, does that mean you haven't contributed?

The perspective we hold in this game, whether it's causing us frustration or fulfillment, mirrors the one we hold in our real life.

Is it
"I feel like I'm not doing anything with my life", "Who will ever notice what I did?", "Nothing lasts for ever", "It's all meaningless anyway", "this life's so unfair, I'm gonna stop playing", "I wish I could be like Steve Jobs, a man who created something lasting (this one makes me cringe so hard)"
or
"Look at those people building futile walls to satisfy their own ego, sacrificing the relationship they could've had with their families and societies during their short lifetime in order to satisfy their own needs of fulfillment. A structure that the world is literally filled with copies of. And then spend the remaining few minutes they have marveling at their own creation. Only to discover that instead of fulfillment, it's only a deeper void they actually uncovered."

OHOL is not a game. At least not from my perspective. It's a reflection of people's desires and limitations. It's a search for meaning beyond time and death. Not everybody will enjoy what they find deep within themselves, nor will everybody learn from it.

I'm sure some people reading this already dismissed it as the ramblings of a guys who's taking a "game" too seriously. And I absolutely am. this is my perception about this game from the day I bought it. I couldn't even care less about what Jason himself thinks about it. It could become "Minecraft" Or "Don't starve together" tomorrow for all I care.

I'm having my experience of this game on forums and streams just as much as from playing it: I love seeing people's different reactions to changes, I'm engaging in stories of growth and decay, I'm understanding more and more the depth and limitations of human psyche, I'm witnessing a game designer (A god) deciding to implement an apocalypse to rectify the sins of his creations (would've loved to build an arc btw).

Nothing is new if you know enough, and everything seems new if you are ignorant.

I've discovered that my favorite way to play OHOL is to spawn as an eve in an empty world and create a stable colony, regardless if there's anyone there to witness and enjoy it. Although it's not something new I've discovered in myself, and you'd have to know me to understand, there's still something new to explore within it.

The notions that our generation has defined as the pillars of success are the obstacles stopping us from being happy.
Our search of a lasting contribution, is hindered by the objectives and milestones that we have set to ourselves. Those values that our ignorant and short sighted societies have deemed to be important. Well they're simply not.

The humans who contributed to where we are today are not mentioned in the history books. Those key decisions that are the reason we are who we are, are the ones we think about as trivial.

We focus on the bell builders, while the person who made it happen is the carrot farmer who spent his whole life making sure there's enough seeds and soil. Then the history books tell the tales of the guy who rung the first bell.

Nothing is new here except what you may learn about yourself if you allow yourself to.

Good luck

NOTE: My post is not to dismiss any objections people are having as childish or ignorant, they are not. It's people's way of dealing with this experience. And it's a legitimate experience. As important as mine. This post is my attempt at shedding the light on another part of their experience, a part they may be missing. A part I'm hoping they will enjoy as much as I do.

Last edited by Roolstar (2018-04-27 09:54:01)

Nubbcakes · 2018-04-27 09:59:38

Roolstar wrote:

We focus on the bell builders, while the person who made it happen is the carrot farmer who spent his whole life making sure there's enough seeds and soil. Then the history books tell the tales of the guy who rung the first bell.

this whole post was a really interesting little read and has really changed my perspective about a few things, and also helped sway my opinions about the recent updates lol
thank you, that input is much appreciated

Last edited by Nubbcakes (2018-04-27 10:00:10)

breezeknight · 2018-04-27 10:52:13

jasonrohrer wrote:

..., and then having your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchild ...

i have still the big problem with the legacy in OHOL

i met only once before the apocalypse update what was a family i founded as Eve
since then every people i met are some families with some names, many of the mothers i've met don't even have a last name, so there is just no legacy at all, there are even Eves without a last name & i play often as Eve without a name

so how to know that there are any descendents at all ?
i hope i do not have to imagine that some of those nameless mothers are maybe one of the descendents of me being once an Eve
cause while i can imagine a great deal i would like to play a game where i can actually track down a lineage

so, will there ever be something like a family tree in OHOL ?

& i have to say
i am pretty jealous that people have managed a lineage using discord & got rewarded because of that with their presence on the main page - doesn't sit well with me, feels like simple cheating, because it is not the gameplay, it's some side show
i can swallow it, but i do not need to appreciate that, sorry

Nubbcakes wrote:

Roolstar wrote:
We focus on the bell builders, while the person who made it happen is the carrot farmer who spent his whole life making sure there's enough seeds and soil. Then the history books tell the tales of the guy who rung the first bell.
this whole post was a really interesting little read and has really changed my perspective about a few things, and also helped sway my opinions about the recent updates lol
thank you, that input is much appreciated

that's all fine & dandy, still

if i wanted to experience my small part in a great scheme of things i just need to be aware of it IRL, don't need any game for that

i see a game as an opportunity to track down a legacy, because it is easier trackable than IRL

& then again, if legacies are that little important in OHOL, so why post the milestone of 111 gens on the main page ?
that's very contradictory

i any case
i do not have any great great great grandchild in game, not that i know of & even if i ever would meet one i wouldn't know, because the best shot at it is to think that maybe some nameless is a descendant, but maybe there are none, so that's as probable as well
in the end i summirize it as - there are no legacies in OHOL, legacies are not part of the gameplay
as an effect i do not care for names in OHOL & i do not look out for names, because survival is still more present as gameplay than any thin chance meeting anybody with a name i might have given once as Eve

additionally, there might be also a chance some other player gave the same name & i am not seeing my lineage but that of that other player, just named the same, well, bummer

& another thing
because we are unable to give names later in game, so we all will eventually end up as nameless, isn't it ?

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2018-04-27 13:08:02)

kubassa · 2018-04-27 11:06:06

Xuhybrid wrote:

If you can't form a reasonable opinion about something in 9 hours, you're a moron. Honestly after reading that Discord conversation, he is completely out of touch. We're supposed to play a game we don't want to play, just because he refuses to acknowledge criticism? What a failure this game is gonna be.

This 10000000%

If he can not swallow his pride and listen to the community then his game is going to be dead before it is even finished.

Last edited by kubassa (2018-04-27 11:06:46)

bluefish16 · 2018-04-27 11:36:50

I get it. There is no reason for you to improve this game, no, REVIVE this game because you made your fortune and now you can be done, you can keep making it harder for players until nobody plays then you won't need to finish the game and thus your work is done your money is made.

I hope you invest all the money you made in some failing business and lose it all. Maybe invest in your own game.

Roolstar · 2018-04-27 12:46:38

Nubbcakes wrote:

Roolstar wrote:
We focus on the bell builders, while the person who made it happen is the carrot farmer who spent his whole life making sure there's enough seeds and soil. Then the history books tell the tales of the guy who rung the first bell.
this whole post was a really interesting little read and has really changed my perspective about a few things, and also helped sway my opinions about the recent updates lol
thank you, that input is much appreciated

So happy about that, and thanks for letting me know I really appreciate it

jasonrohrer · 2018-04-27 14:48:43

bluefish16 wrote:

I get it. There is no reason for you to improve this game, no, REVIVE this game because you made your fortune and now you can be done, you can keep making it harder for players until nobody plays then you won't need to finish the game and thus your work is done your money is made.
I hope you invest all the money you made in some failing business and lose it all. Maybe invest in your own game.

What is wrong with you?

How much money do you think I've made?

I've been working on this game for THREE YEARS.

I have at least two more years to go.

The game has been out for only 8 weeks. I've been putting out weekly updates the whole time, along with answering 50+ emails a day personally, along with posting in the forums and participating in Discord, along with optimizing the servers and fixing every bug that has been discovered.

I have a wife and three children. I am 40 years old.

I have been making games for 14 years.

Don't feel sorry for me. I chose this life.

But also understand that this game means EVERYTHING to me....

Say "hi" to Notch for me...

Exsel · 2018-04-27 15:10:05

Jason, I think there needs to be a community polling system to decide what needs to happen in game. I've played Runescape for 12 years now and can say that the original game died because the developers never listened to the community. Sure they had their own vision of the game, but that vision also ripped the community apart. Since the release of Old School Runescape they've had a polling system where the mods come up with ideas and see what the community would want in the game. This way the mods can implement their own vision while giving the community a choice on what they want. The player count has been at its highest since around 2012.

Relating that to one hour one life, the few people that play the game are already starting to leave or hop over to modded servers because of the same reason.

I think the community would rather see new crafting recipes rather than decay, which in all honesty is too much for this game at the moment. Sure it makes sense with the scale of the game, where everything decays quick because the lives are quick. But the players literally can't keep up. Rather than decay, there needs to be some form of recycling system where you can break down items when ever you need to have more space.

And for the murdering issue, why not add a rabbit hide armor that takes five hides. It would act like Sir Arthur's armor from ghosts'n'goblins where it only can take one hit before breaking. Anything to help the players rather than drive them away.

Turnipseed · 2018-04-27 15:27:46

Exsel wrote:

Sure it makes sense with the scale of the game, where everything decays quick because the lives are quick.

If decay is to a scale then farming breeding and what have you should be too... dosent take five years to grow carrots... soil don't come from pits. You just till the ground. Sure a basket irl will decay in sixty years faster if used constantly.

The decisions just dont make any sense to me. Just seems like jason is making things artificially difficult...

Go! Bwah! · 2018-04-27 15:52:58

Roolstar wrote:

The perspective we hold in this game, whether it's causing us frustration or fulfillment, mirrors the one we hold in our real life.

Also interesting how this perspective morphs over one's life. For me, the desire to create something that can be seen from space has waned and (almost?) disappeared; desire to have little connections with people has increased.

Projecting that back on to the game: the only really fulfilling moment I can recall off-hand was being born to a new player, and after maturing, laying out thread, a branch, and a sharp stone, deliberately constructing a stone hatchet in front of her, and getting a "ooo!" in return. Likewise with a bow drill and maybe another thing or two. You know, simple stuff.

Then projecting that back into real life: why teach people how to create hatchets in a game when I could be teaching seniors basic computer skills in real life?

Drakulon · 2018-04-27 15:57:56

jasonrohrer wrote:

I've been working on this game for THREE YEARS.

So why do you want to throw away all of it by insulting your players?
NEVER show any kind of aggression towards a player of your game.
Its irrelevant how much they insult you, you need to stay above this.
The people that insult you are harmless, be afraid of those who don't.

Roolstar · 2018-04-27 17:13:40

Turnipseed wrote:

Drakulon wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:
I've been working on this game for THREE YEARS.
So why do you want to throw away all of it by insulting your players?
NEVER show any kind of aggression towards a player of your game.
Its irrelevant how much they insult you, you need to stay above this.
The people that insult you are harmless, be afraid of those who don't.
Seriously i was on his side (in that he should be able to experiment with the game) until he started being rude about it.
I dont like the update, but i still play as a nomad just because i like the idea of the game.
However i feel like jason has started battling againt us.

I like you Turnipseed, and I believe you mean well.

People (trolls) accusing Jason of being rude, and getting under his skin by essentially accusing him of fraud of the worst kind, doesn't mean he is.

Try and imagine how much consuming all this is for him. I mean the game not the trolls. He's a professional with a dream, he's gonna get there. Not worried about him at all, nothing to prove on his end.

I actually respect his resistance to becoming a follower in his own dream. He has an idea, he gave it to us open source, and now he's inviting us to stay and keep playing his version of it. What more can a person do to gain our respect and trust?

Many other servers are online, some of which would probably become serious competition for his dream in the future, still he decided he would allow that.

He promised he wouldn't stop grievers by force of administrative privileges and he hasn't. He also stayed true to that when faced with a player who developed a bot that uses a simple method to access the game in a "non-intended" fashion. A player that outputs "666" is easy to spot and kick out, but Jason let him and his bot stay. Good decision imo, shows integrity and clear vision.

My reply is not intended to defend or support Jason, I'm not evn saying "he knows best". All I'm saying is that it is HIS dream that we are enjoying.
And If you're following a man with a dream, expect to take some turns that you haven't signed up for. (Otherwise it would've been your dream)

So you can either enjoy the ride or get off it. But whatever you do, try not to distract the driver unless it's a real emergency.

Thank you

Last edited by Roolstar (2018-04-27 17:23:58)

Xuhybrid · 2018-04-27 17:34:35

Exsel wrote:

Jason, I think there needs to be a community polling system to decide what needs to happen in game. I've played Runescape for 12 years now and can say that the original game died because the developers never listened to the community. Sure they had their own vision of the game, but that vision also ripped the community apart. Since the release of Old School Runescape they've had a polling system where the mods come up with ideas and see what the community would want in the game. This way the mods can implement their own vision while giving the community a choice on what they want. The player count has been at its highest since around 2012.
Relating that to one hour one life, the few people that play the game are already starting to leave or hop over to modded servers because of the same reason.
I think the community would rather see new crafting recipes rather than decay, which in all honesty is too much for this game at the moment. Sure it makes sense with the scale of the game, where everything decays quick because the lives are quick. But the players literally can't keep up. Rather than decay, there needs to be some form of recycling system where you can break down items when ever you need to have more space.
And for the murdering issue, why not add a rabbit hide armor that takes five hides. It would act like Sir Arthur's armor from ghosts'n'goblins where it only can take one hit before breaking. Anything to help the players rather than drive them away.

Actually Runescape died because their hand was forced by chinese trading and scamming. They were forced to alter the core PvP in the wilderness and add the Grand Exchange to control trade. All of this pressure forced them to change the core concept of the game. It was required by law. I know, i was there when it happened. I had already beaten every quest in the game at that point so i consider myself a veteran of the original two iterations of the game. I stopped sometime during Runescape 3.

Turnipseed · 2018-04-27 17:37:38

Actually if you look at the server list http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report
I think he did do something to get rid of him.. you will also notice that fellas review is gone. Which im all for...

Last edited by Turnipseed (2018-04-27 20:48:40)

Roolstar · 2018-04-27 17:40:54

Turnipseed wrote:

Actually if you look at the server list http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report
I think he did do something to get rid of him.. you will also notice that fellas review is gone. Which im all for...
Its his game he can do what he wants. I just wish he wouldn't be so hostile on the forums.

Hehe ok dude, I stand corrected. Everything else I talked about is clearly wrong as well.

Good luck

jasonrohrer · 2018-04-27 17:57:21

I didn't want him artificially inflating the stats with bots, that is all.

Bots are welcome, but not if you're using them to live 14,000 lives in a few days. That is a DOS attack, because it creates false statistics that are supposed to be real and reliable. His review was falsely at the top of the list, so I removed it. He did not play 500+ hours. His bots did, 24-7 on all 15 servers.

Turnip, I guess you didn't read the comment that I was responding to. I will repeat it here for you:

I hope you invest all the money you made in some failing business and lose it all. Maybe invest in your own game.

If you don't see something wrong with that, what is wrong with you, Turnip?

I am not being "rude" by expressing displeasure over these kinds of comments.

It is a natural human reaction to having someone wish that your whole life's work fails. These kinds of comments displease me.

Also, my response was not worded in rude way. I did not use rude language. I simply explained my position.

I have been working on this game for three years. That is a fact. There is nothing rude about that fact.

If the commenter was claiming that I'm attempting to defraud people and run off with a bunch of money, that commenter is committing libel. I shouldn't just stand by quietly while my "customers" lie about me....

For the record, after taxes, this game has brought in about $50K for each year that I have worked on it. For a family of 5, that puts us slightly above the poverty line...

Xuhybrid · 2018-04-27 18:27:16

I am glad to hear that it hasn't been a complete loss at least. Hopefully over the course of the games life, it will garner more popularity. I have definitely had my doubts and i think that's at the core of most complaints. Everyone has doubts, even you i'm sure.

Drakulon · 2018-04-27 18:27:39

jasonrohrer wrote:

Turnip, I guess you didn't read the comment that I was responding to. I will repeat it here for you:
I hope you invest all the money you made in some failing business and lose it all. Maybe invest in your own game.
If you don't see something wrong with that, what is wrong with you, Turnip?
I am not being "rude" by expressing displeasure over these kinds of comments.
It is a natural human reaction to having someone wish that your whole life's work fails. These kinds of comments displease me.
Also, my response was not worded in rude way. I did not use rude language. I simply explained my position.
I have been working on this game for three years. That is a fact. There is nothing rude about that fact.

If the commenter was claiming that I'm attempting to defraud people and run off with a bunch of money, that commenter is committing libel. I shouldn't just stand by quietly while my "customers" lie about me....

For the record, after taxes, this game has brought in about $50K for each year that I have worked on it. For a family of 5, that puts us slightly above the poverty line...

You want to reply to every troll out there? Thats what the trolls love.
Also if you reply in a peaceful way, people will be on your side instead of the side of the troll.
What positive effect do you hope to gain when insulting your players?
I cant see ANY positive effect. This is only for your ego and shows that you are unsecure about what you are doing.
I only try to help here, sry for being so mean, you can insult me if you want

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-04-27 02:26:13

For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#2 2018-04-27 02:31:41

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#3 2018-04-27 02:32:21

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#4 2018-04-27 03:26:05

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#5 2018-04-27 04:06:28

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#6 2018-04-27 04:16:51

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#7 2018-04-27 07:47:34

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#8 2018-04-27 09:47:10

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#9 2018-04-27 09:59:38

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#10 2018-04-27 10:52:13

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#11 2018-04-27 11:06:06

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#12 2018-04-27 11:36:50

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#13 2018-04-27 12:46:38

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#14 2018-04-27 14:48:43

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#15 2018-04-27 15:10:05

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#16 2018-04-27 15:27:46

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#17 2018-04-27 15:52:58

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#18 2018-04-27 15:57:56

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#19 2018-04-27 17:13:40

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#20 2018-04-27 17:34:35

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#21 2018-04-27 17:37:38

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#22 2018-04-27 17:40:54

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#23 2018-04-27 17:57:21

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#24 2018-04-27 18:27:16

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

#25 2018-04-27 18:27:39

Re: For those who say you can no longer leave a legacy

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