Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

YAHG · 2018-05-01 00:13:55

What it is:

What if when you died there was another button next to "Get Reborn" that was "Get Reborn to Lineage"?

This rebirths you to a Mom with the same name you had when you just died, assuming one exists.
If they are ALL on cool-down timer it would just put you in a que for one of their wombs. Obviously
you would get a button while in Que to just go free birth to random Moms/Eve if you are sick of waiting.

If the line is extinct you can not rebirth to it obviously.

If you meet a violent end while in a lineage at the hands of someone in the SAME lineage you can
not be born to that line either permanently or on some cool-down, perhaps an hour?

If you meet a violent end at the hands of someone of an OTHER lineage you can not be born to your
killer's line for the same cool-down.

Perhaps even starvation would give you a cooldown to your own lineage?
I think this is a side issue and is less needed.

If you are on cool-down for that lineage you can not be born to its Moms. You have to be Eve or be
born to other lines. If you are on cool-down to all lines you have to be Eve..

This makes murders MATTER, and it makes killing a punishment, not a be a baby again same spot
button to fuck with em again with no cost to you.

An additional feature which would be HUGE for this is some sort of mark or easy way to identify who
doesn't share your last name, not hovering, you should be able to just KNOW someone is an outsider.

Why it is Needed:

Solves the Griefer in interesting and fair to both parties way:

Griefers are just Criminals, they are a legitimate part of the game and should be included. Those who
do not obey the rules can make things more interesting and perhaps they feel they have good reason
to disobey, perhaps they are even right. Removing the ability to cause trouble cheapens the game,
Criminals should be included but there is currently no way to punish them that matters to the Criminal.

Criminals can not be punished by the players who bring them justice (death) they just come back as
insiders (babies) and people feel helpless, this is because they ARE helpless. This gives them a REAL way
to deal with crime while still letting people commit crimes against the village/tribe and perhaps become
its ruler.

War is a non starter:

You kill them they get born to you, they kill you you get born to them. You can't win anything so there
is no point.

It is not possible to rule a Tribe:

You kill those who disobey your law/command and they just reborn like Criminals are and nothing can really
be done. Now you can kill those who disobey and you will be able to ACTUALLY have Kings not just RP
Kings.. People can kill the King and take over and it matters, he isn't coming back for a while. People can
avenge him but he cannot avenge himself unless he comes back as an outsider.

In order to have wars you need to have an in group and an out group. Currently spawns are RANDOM so
there is no way to kick people out of your group for more than a few minutes (their childhood as your
re-spawned babies). This will make punishment MATTER without putting people in a penalty box or forcing
them to stay alive as prisoner, which is boring game-play.

Allows Emergent in game law:

With punishment possible people can enforce law on other people through violence (this is how ALL law
in enforced in ALL societies through ALL time). If the punished can not suffer punishment there can be no
real law. People can decide for themselves how to punish people, what are good reasons to punish each
other. This can all be done organically within the games culture.

Having a name is more important:

Without a name people can't align themselves with your tribe, you can not exclude criminals etc etc etc.
Perhaps there should be a way to split off from a line and a way to form a new one? This allows for tribes
to split and war internally.

kubassa · 2018-05-01 00:47:15

TLDR.

stickyflypaper · 2018-05-01 01:47:15

Well I did read it and I think you make a good case for this feature!

YAHG · 2018-05-01 01:47:37

stickyflypaper wrote:

Well I did read it and I think you make a good case for this feature!

Yay! <3

jasonrohrer · 2018-05-01 02:06:56

It's an interesting idea....

Though one of the fundamental ideas in the game is that you never know where you will be born. It's not really supposed to be a game where you have control over continuing projects into the next life.

Obviously, people are playing the game that way, and working around the game's systems, through baby suicide. Not sure how to deal with that.

YAHG · 2018-05-01 02:12:45

jasonrohrer wrote:

It's an interesting idea....
Though one of the fundamental ideas in the game is that you never know where you will be born. It's not really supposed to be a game where you have control over continuing projects into the next life.
Obviously, people are playing the game that way, and working around the game's systems, through baby suicide. Not sure how to deal with that.

Thank you for reading it. That was mostly what I wanted.

powa · 2018-05-01 03:40:45

Wow I'm really surprised Jason likes this idea. Not because it's bad though, but I just thought he really wanted to keep all of a player's lives as separate as possible, simulating the extremely limited impact of individual people in the real world.

Nice work, YAHG.

With some ability to come back to your old family line, the game would really shine. Doesn't have to be easy, could require you to reach an old enough age or something.

The game would be more fun and offer more insight into people and society with a little more moderation away from the extreme of "every human is tiny" and closer towards a fuller experience of the world you contribute to.

YAHG · 2018-05-01 10:34:18

powa wrote:

Wow I'm really surprised Jason likes this idea. Not because it's bad though, but I just thought he really wanted to keep all of a player's lives as separate as possible, simulating the extremely limited impact of individual people in the real world.
Nice work, YAHG.

With some ability to come back to your old family line, the game would really shine. Doesn't have to be easy, could require you to reach an old enough age or something.
The game would be more fun and offer more insight into people and society with a little more moderation away from the extreme of "every human is tiny" and closer towards a fuller experience of the world you contribute to.

<3 Thanks dude.

TrustyWay · 2018-05-01 11:14:09

I like that you cant reborn in your lineage but what happen if the servers are low pop and all mom let you die ? It happens during night time

YAHG · 2018-05-01 11:20:15

TrustyWay wrote:

I like that you cant reborn in your lineage but what happen if the servers are low pop and all mom let you die ? It happens during night time

You are Eve? If none of the Moms will raise you wouldn't you rather be Eve than play starving baby simulator?

danger1penguin · 2018-05-01 11:31:30

YAHG. Love the idea. Meant to comment on this last night but my phone died right before I submitted so here goes attempt 2 via computer.

Jason, I know this might not be the game you intended, but as all games work, players manipulated the system to work how they enjoy most. Almost everyone that knows how to game the system does. I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND ADDING THIS FEATURE, it is what players want anyways. With the dwindling player base, if you give people what they want they will be more likely to stick around. This is a compromise with your ideal game. Players get what they want (potential to contribute to a greater cause AND see that contribution in the future), and you get to force them to move on due to ourselves, PLAYER ACTIONS WILL CAUSE THE FEATURE YOU INTEND.

My suggestion on the suggestion:

1. Killed by any family line prevents respawn to anyone in those family lines for two hours. (the desire for revenge will have faded, but a griefer cannot prevent many people who want to see a community in a future life from ever doing so [if they were banned permanently])

2. You can't respawn to a lineage until your previous life would have ended of old age. (old age deaths will allow immediate rebirth, but death as an infant will prevent you for almost an hour, and dying of starvation will prevent you from overpopulating the survivors of a famine [because you weren't good enough to survive]). Side note, this will make keeping babies alive more interesting and probably spawn less frequently.

3. Eve's can respawn to their lineage even after living in a different village (permitting they weren't banned due to (1) or (2) above). This would be kinda like a third respawn button option. I'll be very surprised if Jason would do this, but I think it would be awesome. We all want to see how far some of those towns we started got to in the end. If this won't be added, at least have a status that lets us know info about our previous lives and their lineages.

YAHG · 2018-05-01 13:24:10

1. Killed by any family line prevents respawn to anyone in those family lines for two hours. (the desire for revenge will have faded, but a griefer cannot prevent many people who want to see a community in a future life from ever doing so [if they were banned permanently])

I think it is fine if they are Eve and come back for more killing etc. just not as baby so we can earn some peace by killing them but they can still do their thing too.

2. You can't respawn to a lineage until your previous life would have ended of old age. (old age deaths will allow immediate rebirth, but death as an infant will prevent you for almost an hour, and dying of starvation will prevent you from overpopulating the survivors of a famine [because you weren't good enough to survive]). Side note, this will make keeping babies alive more interesting and probably spawn less frequently.

THIS might be it entirely, just doing this would nueter persistent griefing. A little crime here and there is fun and games but not being able to kick people out of your group for more than a lil while SUCKS.

3. Eve's can respawn to their lineage even after living in a different village (permitting they weren't banned due to (1) or (2) above). This would be kinda like a third respawn button option. I'll be very surprised if Jason would do this, but I think it would be awesome. We all want to see how far some of those towns we started got to in the end. If this won't be added, at least have a status that lets us know info about our previous lives and their lineages.

Always wanna know how it turned out, I guess we will find that most of them are dead now .

Thank you for thinking about this and writing back. I think that the issue with people being able
to fuck with you but you can't do anything to deter them can be fixed without messing up the game.

It can be worked out and people want to work it out, so it will be worked out.

danger1penguin · 2018-05-01 13:42:36

No problem yahg. The reason why I think (1) is important is because a smart griefer would spend most of their life as a food sponge and disrupt activity, then at the end they would go around killing. That way if they are killed they only have to wait a couple minutes to come back and wreck havoc again. Plus it will add a HUGE cost to war which will make it feel more real and challenging.

Anshin · 2018-05-01 13:49:03

How does this help if the griefer is from your own lineage?
They could take out the whole town and have the added chuckle that everyone is banned from their own village.

YAHG · 2018-05-01 14:11:05

Anshin wrote:

How does this help if the griefer is from your own lineage?
They could take out the whole town and have the added chuckle that everyone is banned from their own village.

If they kill you all, they won the village fair and square, you were too weak to hold
onto it. If they just starved you by hiding things then maybe you need to have someone
watch the food, maybe keep it in a room? Can you trust the guard? Interesting stuff.

Does the Guard notice the stocks are dwindling and decides to kill the other villagers?

Imagine the THRILL of being a criminal if there was a chance you could get caught and
killed and it wasn't just a trivial thing? Sneaking about heart pounding hunting them
down trying to win..

Being naughty and bad is FUN but if there is no downside risk it is stale and hollow and
all you can get is the jollies of making people pissed. Course still you can get that too but
you can get more, and griefing will be probably be more fun than it is now.

kubassa · 2018-05-01 14:49:24

I think it would be nice if Jason added an incentive to die of old age.
If you lived out your life to die of old age then you can be reborn to lineage or to your home marker. That way those people who want to play in the area of the small village/settlement they have created they can. As of now there is no incentive to really do anything in the game. Getting born to the exact same MURDER city all the time can turn people off, even from playing sensible.

Chances are you will not live to old age if you are running around killing everyone. Kill more than 5 people you don't get to come back. Thus born out in nowhere spawn. Live a good life to 60 and you get born to your home marker or lineage. Something like this would satisfy mostly everyone. Those that wan't to build their mega cities and those that want to just have their own learning/crafting settlement. As for 'kill frenzy' players they can be born as eve's in the middle of nowhere.

Last edited by kubassa (2018-05-01 14:50:35)

pein · 2018-05-01 15:37:10

most fun is when yu born back
murders should be punished, murderer side
there are reasons to kill someone so 1 hour penalty seems fair, so even if you kill someone with a cause, you should be considering to not come back next life

baby suicides are fine, people already know they dont want to be an eves kid, especially if they got 2 hours to play for example
i would say 1 hour one eve life daily is fine, also 1 hour teaching kids
it can not be really known as if you suicided or your mom did not fed you, maybe moved x tiles, was fed x times, still died then probably suicide, but lot of us makes babies follow us in the wild

if you played as eve and you reach at least age 40 you would get an option to reject life as an eve
if you had a life when raised 5 kids, you would have an option to reject kids, or have lower rate
and an option to get back to your own lineage or any you been on, option to wait, option to prioritize kids to reborn to you

this would form friendships in the game, if nayone would do a proper eve run then would be less baby suicides and less kids per womans

Roolstar · 2018-05-01 16:01:19

Wouldn't this feature make every victim unable to spawn back into this lineage tho, making both victims and criminals get the same "punishment"?

Even worse if the criminal isn't killed but instead goes away and starves himself when identified to make sure he's born again right there while his victims are not allowed to come back into their lineage.

This is turning into a forced PVP game: You HAVE to hunt and kill griefers now, otherwise you're paying the price and they're definitely coming back without the hassle of logging in multiple times and suiciding to find you again.

Griefers would love this feature imo. They win some, they lose some, same as always. The only difference is that victims now pay a heavy price if killed. While griefers go to another town and start again, as they usually do, up until the cooldown runs up and they can find you again.

Staying in the same lineage MATTERS a lot more to the victims contributing to the growth of their colony, especially with the limited play time they have irl. While griefers would keep on playing the game they like.

Or am I completely missing the point?

Last edited by Roolstar (2018-05-01 16:05:18)

sammoh · 2018-05-01 16:54:09

Families as saved games is the coolest fucking thing I ever heard.

Eve-rlastingGamer · 2018-05-01 16:59:04

jasonrohrer wrote:

It's an interesting idea....
Though one of the fundamental ideas in the game is that you never know where you will be born. It's not really supposed to be a game where you have control over continuing projects into the next life.
Obviously, people are playing the game that way, and working around the game's systems, through baby suicide. Not sure how to deal with that.

I agree. Yes, I do enjoy the occasional times when I am reborn to a civilization that I helped build... But I don't want to be 'Mom' forever! I don't want my Mom calling me Mom all the time, so sometimes (when it does happen) I'll just keep my trap shut. I enjoy the way the game's spawning system is (though, yes, it does kind of suck when your mom abandons your or you spend five minutes raising a kid up only to watch them die asap).

As for the suicide babies, I don't mind them. I say let them suicide to their little hearts contents. Players will always find glitches and bugs that will go to their advantage. It's some of the fun in playing games. Especially if they find out how to get to places they're just not supposed to be.

danger1penguin · 2018-05-01 18:43:39

Based on roolstar’s comment Id like to add one more thing to my list of rules. On top of the three I listed, those who have killed X players in X time are forced to be an Eve until death by old age. Im not placing parameters on the numbers, but this would prevent anyone from going on a spree then waiting time or closing out of a client X times, they would have to actually play and live.

Also because yall are stubborn and everything needs to have a reason, my reasoning for this is a person who kills too much forgets what it is like to be human and must relearn as an eve. This goes for both police and criminals. You cant kill to much or you go crazy and need a “reset.”

YAHG · 2018-05-01 18:51:57

Roolstar wrote:

Wouldn't this feature make every victim unable to spawn back into this lineage tho, making both victims and criminals get the same "punishment"?
Even worse if the criminal isn't killed but instead goes away and starves himself when identified to make sure he's born again right there while his victims are not allowed to come back into their lineage.
This is turning into a forced PVP game: You HAVE to hunt and kill griefers now, otherwise you're paying the price and they're definitely coming back without the hassle of logging in multiple times and suiciding to find you again.
Griefers would love this feature imo. They win some, they lose some, same as always. The only difference is that victims now pay a heavy price if killed. While griefers go to another town and start again, as they usually do, up until the cooldown runs up and they can find you again.
Staying in the same lineage MATTERS a lot more to the victims contributing to the growth of their colony, especially with the limited play time they have irl. While griefers would keep on playing the game they like.
Or am I completely missing the point?

Yes, "Victims" pay the same penalty, in game justice might favor the strong over the righteous.

It is rough, as it is right now they just rebirth over and over to you not matter how many times
you kill em. The game engine will will never be able to tell who is right and who is wrong when
someone is killed, it is a computer program and we have trouble deciding who is actually guilt
or not in real life.

You can't do bans without serious overhead, people are paying money for access to the servers.
You can't be automating whether or not people are allowed to play nor can you let the players
decide who is allowed to play and what play-styles are acceptable. Not only that but people are
allowed to play the game poorly if they want to.

The only way we modulate peoples behavior in life is through the application of consequences,
people then do what is best for them with those consequences included. Currently there are
almost no costs to fuck with people, while they have a cost to deal with your shit. It is important
to remember that we are not actually in the right and that the greifers are not actually in the
wrong, from a game-play point of view. They are legitimate players of the game with valid accounts,
they are playing within the rules of the program and I have not seen any evidence they are hacking
or cheating, merely that they are a minority and the majority doesn't like em around.

I suggest instead of thinking of greifers or in game Criminals as I see them as a problem to be
dealt with it is better to integrate them and make them into a FEATURE of the game. You don't
really have a society if you don't have these kind of people included anyways, always gonna be
people on the edges. Think of them like people bringing life to NPC bandits, instead of getting
raided by some derpy AI marauder it is a real person doing the raiding. Instead of a hokey spy
saboteur it s a real one, with perhaps a cunning mind and a flair for deception. ALL of these
free "NPC"s are fucking even sentient for Christ's sake!

Resilient settlements are more interesting to build anyways.. Walled towns, guards require resources
for upkeep, locked food stores, perhaps we can ACTUALLY have in game governments! There is a
need for someone to administer the law and to protect property from malcontent people.

I think that is is possible to allow the players to police themselves, I think this can be done in a
way that is fair to all parties in that they are on equal footing as far as the rules go, we do not
need to judge them from an administrative perspective for their actions and no one in charge
like Jason for example has to deal with the minutiae of what the in game laws are and whether
someone is really guilty or framed etc.

Kinrany · 2018-05-01 21:06:48

jasonrohrer wrote:

It's an interesting idea....
Though one of the fundamental ideas in the game is that you never know where you will be born. It's not really supposed to be a game where you have control over continuing projects into the next life.
Obviously, people are playing the game that way, and working around the game's systems, through baby suicide. Not sure how to deal with that.

Would it be good enough if you could only spawn as your own great-great-grandchild? No one you knew would be alive, and there'd be enough changes for it to feel like a completely new life. And you'd still rely on your descendants to take care of your project in the meantime.

YAHG · 2018-05-01 21:46:02

Kinrany wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
It's an interesting idea....
Though one of the fundamental ideas in the game is that you never know where you will be born. It's not really supposed to be a game where you have control over continuing projects into the next life.
Obviously, people are playing the game that way, and working around the game's systems, through baby suicide. Not sure how to deal with that.
Would it be good enough if you could only spawn as your own great-great-grandchild? No one you knew would be alive, and there'd be enough changes for it to feel like a completely new life. And you'd still rely on your descendants to take care of your project in the meantime.

Could be to any of your lineages and you don't even get to pick. You could die on purpose so
that there is only 1 available, maybe instead of great great just 2 hours before you can spawn
to a lineage again. One whole life then another for everyone to die. There would be no way to
interact with the individual people of your lines in more than 1 life, no being your Child's Child
etc.

If you are gonna get vengeance from beyond the grave on people you would have to just spawn
sorta near them as Eve or other line luckily. I don't know if vengeance beyond the grave is good
or bad overall for game play.

Traddy · 2018-05-01 23:55:59

I truly hope Jason chooses to implement this idea, it's one of the best introduced. It makes the players who want to continue their legacy happy, while keeping the idea of spawning randomly alive as well. If you live a good life you get the reward of spawning back into your family.

Alongside these points, I feel this will help with the mundane feeling of teaching countless new players repeatedly, these players die and are replaced with more players that have no idea what they're doing. However, if you teach players and they can choose to come pack to continue this legacy that problem is somewhat solved. You now have more experienced players to help, and they can help to teach more new players as they flow in. There is finally some incentive to tirelessly teaching for us (((pro))) players. We can see the progress of our teaching careers unfold first hand. Seeing one player live to old age repeatedly is one heck of a reward for a teacher bringing up new players.

Jason placed a lot of importance on the whole "teaching" aspect of the game, which has proven extremely tiring for me personally at least, give us this so we can enjoy teaching.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-05-01 00:13:55

Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#2 2018-05-01 00:47:15

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#3 2018-05-01 01:47:15

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#4 2018-05-01 01:47:37

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#5 2018-05-01 02:06:56

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#6 2018-05-01 02:12:45

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#7 2018-05-01 03:40:45

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#8 2018-05-01 10:34:18

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#9 2018-05-01 11:14:09

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#10 2018-05-01 11:20:15

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#11 2018-05-01 11:31:30

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#12 2018-05-01 13:24:10

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#13 2018-05-01 13:42:36

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#14 2018-05-01 13:49:03

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#15 2018-05-01 14:11:05

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#16 2018-05-01 14:49:24

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#17 2018-05-01 15:37:10

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#18 2018-05-01 16:01:19

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#19 2018-05-01 16:54:09

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#20 2018-05-01 16:59:04

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#21 2018-05-01 18:43:39

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#22 2018-05-01 18:51:57

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#23 2018-05-01 21:06:48

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#24 2018-05-01 21:46:02

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

#25 2018-05-01 23:55:59

Re: Get Reborn to Lineage Button (Griefer/Law/Ruler/Punishment Mechanic)

Board footer