Assholes ...

ned · 2018-03-07 03:40:40

Indeed. Perhaps towns can begin to make a practice of having bows and arrows every screen or so, so villagers can quickly react to seeing a murder.

xoomorg · 2018-03-07 03:44:46

Hmm.. so you're saying that we may just be entering a particularly violent era in our civilization's development and need to deal with it? Everybody should craft a bow first thing? Until we progress to a point where most people are born in advanced towns that have better technological defenses and/or dedicated guards? I'd still hope for there to be some kind of group-defense mechanism.. or maybe a non-lethal "subdue" since that would solve other nuisance issues (like the Eaters of Corn) where people are breaking rules but you don't necessarily want to kill them. If two or more people could "subdue" another person... maybe with rope? They would remain tied up until somebody else clicks to untie them?

lesslucid · 2018-03-07 03:54:46

Is there a 'death scream' or 'murder scream' in the game? When you hear a baby crying a screen or two away, you know that "something is going on". You can choose to react however you like, but it give you some awareness outside of the range of your immediate vision. If there was a blood-curdling scream each time a person was killed violently - either by an animal or another person - it would give you some warning that you were near a dangerous event, and give you a chance to respond as you saw fit; run away, fight back, etc etc.

Another possible change is that you could give people a random chance of fighting back. In reality, if you run around killing unarmed people with a knife, you are very likely to win most fights... but there's a small chance that you run into someone faster / stronger / luckier and they kill you instead. If one time in ten, stabbing someone killed you instead of the victim, it wouldn't eliminate griefing, but it would make it slower and more complex to do it consistently.

Lonewarior811 · 2018-03-07 03:54:51

xoomorg wrote:

Hmm.. so you're saying that we may just be entering a particularly violent era in our civilization's development and need to deal with it? Everybody should craft a bow first thing? Until we progress to a point where most people are born in advanced towns that have better technological defenses and/or dedicated guards? I'd still hope for there to be some kind of group-defense mechanism.. or maybe a non-lethal "subdue" since that would solve other nuisance issues (like the Eaters of Corn) where people are breaking rules but you don't necessarily want to kill them. If two or more people could "subdue" another person... maybe with rope? They would remain tied up until somebody else clicks to untie them?

I havent fully worked out my thoughts yet but thats the main idea of it. As for for subduing that didn't really happen in ancient times i don't think because eating those carrots could kill everyone. Even more damage than a bow ever could. Food is the most important resource in the game rn and should be treated like it. Can you also explain what you mean by group defense system.

Lonewarior811 · 2018-03-07 04:00:21

lesslucid wrote:

Is there a 'death scream' or 'murder scream' in the game? When you hear a baby crying a screen or two away, you know that "something is going on". You can choose to react however you like, but it give you some awareness outside of the range of your immediate vision. If there was a blood-curdling scream each time a person was killed violently - either by an animal or another person - it would give you some warning that you were near a dangerous event, and give you a chance to respond as you saw fit; run away, fight back, etc etc.
Another possible change is that you could give people a random chance of fighting back. In reality, if you run around killing unarmed people with a knife, you are very likely to win most fights... but there's a small chance that you run into someone faster / stronger / luckier and they kill you instead. If one time in ten, stabbing someone killed you instead of the victim, it wouldn't eliminate griefing, but it would make it slower and more complex to do it consistently.

Randomly chancing the kill just makes the pvp too complex for a game of this genre and would probably end it for good. I am 99% sure Jason intends for there to be murderers and that we need to learn to fight it properly. Its not like battle field counter-knifing if all you do is just stand there and hope your character beats them. I do agree with the scream because someone could kill someone just one frame outside of your view and then next all you see is a friendly hunter with a bow.

Last edited by Lonewarior811 (2018-03-07 04:04:19)

xoomorg · 2018-03-07 04:05:08

Lonewarior811 maybe the group aspect isn't actually necessary.. if there were some kind of 'murder scream' (so people would know what's up -- this is realistic) and if it were possible to use a rope (or some rope-based tech) to tie somebody up, that may be enough to even the odds in a realistic way. I had been thinking that to "subdue" somebody maybe two different people needed to click on the same target within X seconds of each other, but that may be too complicated. Simply being able to tie up an attacker (or Seed Carrot Eater, or other miscreant) and deal with them accordingly -- while not having to carry around a weapon yourself -- might be enough to balance things in a tech-level-appropriate way, while still encouraging the development of societal mechanisms to protect people.

Lonewarior811 · 2018-03-07 04:13:48

xoomorg wrote:

Lonewarior811 maybe the group aspect isn't actually necessary.. if there were some kind of 'murder scream' (so people would know what's up -- this is realistic) and if it were possible to use a rope (or some rope-based tech) to tie somebody up, that may be enough to even the odds in a realistic way. I had been thinking that to "subdue" somebody maybe two different people needed to click on the same target within X seconds of each other, but that may be too complicated. Simply being able to tie up an attacker (or Seed Carrot Eater, or other miscreant) and deal with them accordingly -- while not having to carry around a weapon yourself -- might be enough to balance things in a tech-level-appropriate way, while still encouraging the development of societal mechanisms to protect people.

I just don't see much capturing in our time period. There are no written laws just words to live by. Also in a video game no one is going to learn from there mistakes by being tied up and leaving the game unless they were just making an honest mistake. But they would learn not to make the same mistake by being killed multiple times for x actions. Its just a personal learning curve.

Last edited by Lonewarior811 (2018-03-07 04:14:18)

xoomorg · 2018-03-07 04:30:54

It wasn't so much sparing their life as removing the danger factor of having everybody carry weapons all the time. I have no problem with killing a criminal afterwards, but if regular (non-guard) villagers could subdue somebody with a non-lethal weapon (to remove the accident factor) that might be an improvement over the current situation.

What got me thinking about the Carrot Eater scenario was that people mentioned wanting to be able to stop griefers who would simply consume entire crops. Another mechanic I had been playing around with in my head was preventing (certain kinds) of murder when there were "too many" other people around (for some definition of "too many" ... and "around" for that matter) on the theory that bystanders would potentially step in to protect you or that it simply modeled the natural deterrence factor present in the real world without having to get into the actual mechanisms (to simplify things.) But that kind of "cannot kill people when there are witnesses" rule would prevent ANY kind of killing in-town, even for (say) breaking some law.

EaterOfBerries · 2018-03-07 04:32:16

It seems this thread and my own Mass Murderer Solutions thread are now talking about the same thing.

It seems like there are three feature ideas to combat mass murderers.

1: Subdue them, non-lethal, and non-permanent. Potentially requires rope. Potentially requires multiple people (like a vote)

2: Have murder give off a blood-curdling scream so everyone knows, even off-screen. Potentially extend to all violent deaths

3: Have a bleeding-out/dying mechanic when someone shoots you with a bow, or knifes you. This would work like existing mechanics for the wolf and bear. Potentially allow the murderee to say something. Potentially add items to save someone who is bleeding out

Of course there is one more idea that has been suggested:

4: Git gud, Organize your community with a town guard, have many weapons around to stop murderers (how do you stop a bad guy with a bow? a good guy with a bow!), create secret weapon stashes etc.

ned · 2018-03-07 04:39:01

I think crafting a bow first thing is a bit much, as those resources, especially when milkweed is scarce, may be better spent on fire-making tools or water pouches. Once a semi decent farm is put together, I usually try to have a bow and some arrows to protect from bears (since, at that point, I have something I actually need to protect).

evan.woods · 2018-03-07 05:17:42

EaterOfBerries wrote:

(how do you stop a bad guy with a bow? a good guy with a bow!)

And so, sometime in pre-history, the proto-NRA was formed.

More seriously: I've noticed that issues of scarcity and violence in the game foster a pretty (paleo!)conservative bent in what looks like an early form of administration of towns. We're a long way off from the better angels of our natures; but things will get better, I hope.

Last edited by evan.woods (2018-03-07 05:18:50)

lesslucid · 2018-03-07 06:59:17

evan.woods wrote:

EaterOfBerries wrote:
(how do you stop a bad guy with a bow? a good guy with a bow!)
And so, sometime in pre-history, the proto-NRA was formed.
More seriously: I've noticed that issues of scarcity and violence in the game foster a pretty (paleo!)conservative bent in what looks like an early form of administration of towns. We're a long way off from the better angels of our natures; but things will get better, I hope.

Funny, I was thinking almost the opposite thing: with short lives, small communities, and no money, something akin to communism arises almost naturally. Without the element of violence, it would be a sort of pre-political paradise. The fact that players can kill each other, of course, creates a new dynamic...

Phate · 2018-03-07 08:09:58

Without Names, and ways to mark people in your own town as legitimate citizens, its a horrible idea to have PvP, because its going to turn into a Kill On Sight scenario
in ALL cities, when the vast population is friendly. You only get a handful of people that were molested as kids that have to act out this way, so why ruin the friendly
nature of stumbling onto a new city?

I don't have a problem with combat being a thing, I have a problem with the inability to see names, and know who to be weary of, and until that is added,
its just going to turn into grief central. It shouldn't be a core feature of the game that attracts the unwanted people that have no friends that must ruin other
peoples fun. It can be an element of the game, but there is no way to keep it in check without a names system. But the real issue is it needs to be perpetual,
otherwise they just use a new name each life. We need to be able to screenshot and name and shame these assholes, the anonymous nature of the whole
thing will kill the decent player base if this is left unchecked. This is also because of the people that eat all your crops, you raise them then they just eat everything
for lols, it shouldn't be that easy to literally not need to do anything to ruin hours of someone's life. And i say hours, because if you have a good village, often
you respawn as a baby of one of your kids.

Twinsen · 2018-03-07 13:31:43

When people talking about guards, wouldn't that be ironic if one of the guard is actually a murder?

Considered that it's so hard to identify individuals, the whole town would actually turn to a blood bath just for looking for one murder.

Doctor Flintrock · 2018-03-07 14:10:35

Twinsen wrote:

When people talking about guards, wouldn't that be ironic if one of the guard is actually a murder?
Considered that it's so hard to identify individuals, the whole town would actually turn to a blood bath just for looking for one murder.

The funny thing is that this wouldn't be unlike something that happens in a real real-word place where anything resembling detective and forensic science has been discovered.

But in the real world close knit communities can have a pretty good idea about who may have done something. Villages and the like should be less impacted by sporadic violence because of mob justice and family ties, but right now the game doesn't really facilitate some sort of record or heritage or identifier.

So all the discussion right now is bouncing between weapon balancing and accountability for actions.

I wonder if Jason foresaw any of this?

adrian010886 · 2018-07-19 04:14:30

Now that the kids are home for the summer, there is an influx of foul mouthed players with bad attitudes

WalrusesConquer · 2018-07-19 05:30:23

Laura came back? Are you the farm rescuer?

JonySky · 2018-07-19 07:30:17

There is something that I find more serious than eating 60 carrots in 1 minute ... and it's the Fire Bow Drill ....

It can be ruined so easily at the hands of a Griefer with a Flint Arrowhead no one notices and you can kill an entire city depriving it of fire

Yesterday I played in a city that had crops full of everything, berries, they were building a big stone room to the west, there were knives but there were no murderers
There was still a fire burning and there was stew for everyone ...

But a Griefer appeared on the scene and I put a Flint Arrowhead on the Fire Bow Drill and the party was over ... nobody made another Fire Bow Drill, the only fire that existed was placed a stone on top to make egg ... wtf!

And everyone was too busy ..
nobody created another Fire Bow Drill
the city died of hunger little by little ... and everything is over.

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … &id=611503

Yes, you could have avoided creating another Fire Bow Drill but you have to radically change the creation of a Flint-tipped Bow Drill ... it's strange to see a city with the Fire Bow Drill intact ...

There is always a griefer or noob that is dedicated to placing a Flint Arrowhead

Potjeh · 2018-07-19 08:44:23

https://onetech.info/1423-Bow-Drill-with-Removed-Tip

tana · 2018-07-19 09:49:22

now by using a flint chip on flinted drill you can remove the arrowhead, if that civ died, it certainly wasn't because of that, but of it's own stupidity

JonySky · 2018-07-19 10:01:17

tana wrote:

now by using a flint chip on flinted drill you can remove the arrowhead, if that civ died, it certainly wasn't because of that, but of it's own stupidity

omg you are right, hahaha I feel ashamed ...
I just learned a new and very useful thing !!!

thank you very much!

Anyway, this civilization did not worry me much ... I was creating a parallel village about 2 minutes away

I was able to save a young woman and her son at the end of my life

Lotus · 2018-07-19 16:02:29

Just say something like that back to them. They’ll back off quickly and won’t pester you again. It always works for me.

One Hour One Life Forums

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