I've seen people on discord coordinating which towns they are going to "purge" and bragging about towns they killed. Some people choose to murder entire towns while some people only kill specific people, Usually they kill males and most of the girls. Either way it's still genocide, just because you only killed all the males dosn't mean your a good guy.

Some griefers even camp a town for the whole hour. I literally ran off for like 15mins after this guy killed everyone. I came back and he was still fucking sitting there as an old man, He tried to kill me but I ran again.

What's even so exciting about the "PvP" its not even tjat different from everything else. All the game is just on stuff in the right order if people are bored with that then how come they think killing is so exciting.

Murdering someone is the same system. Knife+Person=Dead person. Your essentially just crafting murder graves.

YAHG · 2018-05-30 02:03:16

Shitty PvP because is "not pvp game" is bad excuse.

Portager · 2018-05-30 02:05:53

Its sad I agree, I can see why griefers grief more than I used to, but it is certianly devastating our villages at the moment.

Until Jason makes more changes, the best bet at the moment is leave established villages and start new camps, if you want a family line to survive then you have to spread the diaspora. It won't save the village of course, but it can save the family.

Kerayne · 2018-05-30 02:24:06

I completely agree. I've owned the game for a couple of days now, and have lived five full lives over >30 games. While the majority are me being an abandoned baby, I've spent the majority of my age >30 lives in villages before eventually running away because someone started murdering. In 3 out of my 4 full lives, I also witnessed murderers but eventually someone was able to stop the murderer, or the kid starved while murdering. Add to this that those trolls can already cause the death of half the village by either running away with your unsustainable milkweed or ruining your carrot seeds and you can see why the game is extremely unattractive to play at the moment..

Seriously, the only thing I have been able to learn from others in villages before the unpreventable murder spree is how to maintain and create a farm. There's a murder spree every second or so generation, and these litterally stop any development dead in their tracks, reverting everyone back to Eve and it'll just happen again. Just now I was in a functioning village, however my older brother murdered my mom and all my sisters and would've done me in if I hadn't fled the vicinity. He was killed 20~ minutes later by my lost son, however fact remains all the reproductive characters were gone and the city is currently probably waiting to be rediscovered. I hate spawning in a civilization because I know (1) a murder spree is a matter of time and (2) milkweed is unsustainable in the long run so everyone'll instagib the threads only to make freakin' booties out of them rather than backpacks for their kin. Game actually manages to piss me off lmao

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … &id=179653 just another fam merc'd

YAHG · 2018-05-30 02:38:45

Kerayne wrote:

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … &id=179653 just another fam merc'd

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … _id=179653

Yeah I was Culter I am glad someone got that guy, he was in the city that Porta killed earlier.
I was planning on killing him because he killed my Mom when I was a baby. He just sat around
with the bow and arrow while chasing people around.

Lotus · 2018-05-30 02:48:28

Not only this, the game centers around teamwork. Griefing is even less encouraged. Our only defense against griefers is murder, which is also exploited by the trolls.

This game just isn’t what it used to be. All big civs keep dying due to these people.

Last edited by Lotus (2018-05-30 02:48:40)

_______ · 2018-05-30 02:53:41

YAHG wrote:

Shitty PvP because is "not pvp game" is bad excuse.

It's not just that, The only way to guarantee a kill is do it when they aren't expecting it. That favors griefers. And you can't hit people that are moving so unless I'm armed AND in the vicinity when the griefer strikes then I'm boned. Even I'm the armed they would probably target me, for certain models you can't even see a knife inside a backpack. So they can just quickly pull out a knife and kill the guard before he even has a chance to do shit. You should be able to use stuff if your wounded, Like I could at least pull out my knife and kill him too.

Anyway Jason said it himself, pvp isn't even the main focus. Weather you think the PvP works or not, griefers will always have an advantage. It takes hours to build up a town but they can ruin it in half an hour.

sc0rp · 2018-05-30 03:01:59

Portager wrote:

Its sad I agree, I can see why griefers grief more than I used to, but it is certianly devastating our villages at the moment.
Until Jason makes more changes, the best bet at the moment is leave established villages and start new camps, if you want a family line to survive then you have to spread the diaspora. It won't save the village of course, but it can save the family.

I've tried this few times and it's looks really futile. Everything around city is savenged, so no soil, no milkweed. Good luck with setting up a camp.

Even if you run far away and succesfully setup a camp it's doomed anyway. I luckily got reborn to settlement I've made and tried to improve some things. Got killed by a griefer while holding my first child. Just awesome.

Portager · 2018-05-30 03:24:19

lday wrote:

Not only this, the game centers around teamwork. Griefing is even less encouraged. Our only defense against griefers is murder, which is also exploited by the trolls.
This game just isn’t what it used to be. All big civs keep dying due to these people.

Well, truthfully, griefing has been a problem in the past as well (and a pretty bad one for awhile). It seems to come and go in cycles, but we had it pretty well under control when the apocolypse update hit. It started back up with the recent resource nerfing updates, as griefers have been able to take advantage of the fragile state of civs to completely dismantle them. In the past, people could afford to be more watchful, but now every game is a frantic attempt to find and properly utilize the finite resources. This makes the few cities that do exist, easy targets.

scorp wrote:

I've tried this few times and it's looks really futile. Everything around city is savenged, so no soil, no milkweed. Good luck with setting up a camp.
Even if you run far away and succesfully setup a camp it's doomed anyway. I luckily got reborn to settlement I've made and tried to improve some things. Got killed by a griefer while holding my first child. Just awesome.

The key is to leave camp as soon as you can as a child. Grab a basket, fill it with food and gtfo. Go about 10-12 biomes away and then set your new camp. I stopped bringing advanced tools with me, because this makes it so that my children have to work harder. If my children are working, they will be less likely to grief. This also creates a bit of a safety window where people can't immediately forge knives, and this window normally allows a generation or two to mature in a low grief environment.

About half the time these satellite settlements fail, and the other times they succeed. Honestly, you have a better chance of surviving at these camps then you probably do at a village, given the recent problems.

sc0rp · 2018-05-30 03:43:51

Portager wrote:

scorp wrote:
I've tried this few times and it's looks really futile. Everything around city is savenged, so no soil, no milkweed. Good luck with setting up a camp.
Even if you run far away and succesfully setup a camp it's doomed anyway. I luckily got reborn to settlement I've made and tried to improve some things. Got killed by a griefer while holding my first child. Just awesome.
The key is to leave camp as soon as you can as a child. Grab a basket, fill it with food and gtfo. Go about 10-12 biomes away and then set your new camp. I stopped bringing advanced tools with me, because this makes it so that my children have to work harder. If my children are working, they will be less likely to grief. This also creates a bit of a safety window where people can't immediately forge knives, and this window normally allows a generation or two to mature in a low grief environment.
About half the time these satellite settlements fail, and the other times they succeed. Honestly, you have a better chance of surviving at these camps then you probably do at a village, given the recent problems.

Maybe I haven't been clear enough. I did exactly what you suggest. I've run from the town. Setup new settlement, quite successfull one, because I got reborn into it later. Got killed by a griefer after I was reborn there. If I have to flee every single time, how is it different that starting as Eve? I never can learn anything later in tech tree this way. I can't even teach other people how to do basic stuff that I know - we'll both starve if I start explaining instead of doing things.

_______ · 2018-05-30 05:22:16

Yeah, Running away to build your own place isn't much use either. I agree, even if you succeed it will be ruined by griefers.

breezeknight · 2018-05-30 06:05:55

that's why i stopped playing

not even the suggestions i made here are meantime enough to enjoy the game at least a little for what it should be - a civilization building community to care for parenthood

because murder has no consequences that's why it's open season to kill left & right, that's the main game now of OHOL, there is no space left for the intended gameplay

the "funny" thing is
i opened my account here on the forums because i was murdered
the way didn't change a bit how i see the power OHOL has given a killing player over the TOTAL helplessness of the victims - it's destructive to the game itself
since then did Jason nothing to change that imbalance in favour of players who destroy his own game concept, well ...

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2018-05-30 06:14:27)

Angel Carrillo · 2018-05-30 11:24:57

breezenight. I was thinking about being a griefer a few weeks ago in a post that really upset you (I'm calling you out! thread) but now that I have been even murdered myself many times, I'd say griefing isn't worth the pain it causes to other people. It just makes people suffer, as I've seen in one life where one of my brothers had begun murdering the village. It also puts other people's time put in wasted because some dude literally wrecks your entire city with his own bare hands and a pickaxe. It's sad we have no way of defense apart from killing. I'm sorry breezenight, I now see where you're getting at with the griefing problem. Good thing I haven't caused trouble yet. Also, despite the excuses, murder is GRIEFING!

Last edited by Angel Carrillo (2018-05-30 11:26:06)

Eclipciz · 2018-05-30 11:26:33

There is a difference between Griefing and Killing
Killing only becomes griefing when all females are targeted first.

Culling to wipe out inefficient people and carrot sponges is not a detrement to society, contrary to others belief.

Yes, I agree murdering is wayyyy to easy with no way to stop it other than killing the killer.
Even then though, when you die, your knife is either hidden or in someone else’s hand.

Societies are plagued by cullings/purges because the killers are the odd few who take the last resort into hands. Whether this last resort is done at the right time is upon judgment of said Killer.

It’s important to know that it’s not necessarily for “fun” but rather trying to save the town, even saving the town can be entertaining.

I had a nice debate on Discord with folks. They respected my view and I did theirs. It centers around viewpoint at the end of it. I personally have found success in my strategies, even though I know there are more (That don’t work most of the time, in my expierence).

So in all, murdering should be nerfed a bit, maybe not in the process but rather stopping them indirectly. Ex. Bandages, Morphines, etc. However, the murdering system in my expierence has culled of the inefficient and slackers in the societies I live in.

- Eclipciz.

Kerayne · 2018-05-30 11:37:23

Eclipciz wrote:

Snip

I'd have to disagree with your statement that murdering should be considering culling before it's to be considered griefing. You see, the one doing the culling is deciding over someone elses' game, and those that are spunging the carrots likely have a lot to learn. If they get 'culled' by a selfrightious player for "the greater good" this is not going to help them in any way, and will lead again to the exclusion of newer players. On top of this its a very easy excuse for trolls to use while they're destabilizing the settlement.

On top of that, all of my deaths have been *stab* LOL! HAHAHAHA YOU'RE DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!! after I for instance mention our milkweed farm has gotten destroyed or so. It's hardly culling, and the latter is intensely more prominent than actual strategic culling. From what I see, you see culling as a tool to prevent famine and other forms of griefing or destabilizing behavior, while most players are actually not getting to the point where the weapons end up in the hands of reasonable people in the first case. At this point a civ needs a guard near the blacksmith and the milkweed farm, and even then a murderer with half a brain can take those two down with a bow and level the civ. I'd still say one use/kill weapons would make the price to pay heavy enough for both the killer and the victim.

If a woman is carrot spunging and/or pooping out too many babies, make the males carry the babies off.

breezeknight · 2018-05-30 16:54:40

i don't care how killing is called, griefing, culling or whatever
what i care about is being kicked out of a game i want to play by some other player & not to be able to do something about that

i play other MP games where kicking players out of the current game is one of the main objectives & every player has the same good chance of protection against that
OHOL on the other hand is THE most cruel game, where defenseless babies are being murdered MURDERED, young mothers holding babies are being murdered, peaceful farmers are being murdered, elders only a minute away from their natural death are being still murdered & the murderers after their heroic act of cowardice can even mock their victims & write lol & gg

as long the victims are not being empowered nothing about all that will change
if the equal power distribution does function in other games then it should work in this game as well
OHOL is just screwing peaceful players,
if RL would be this way, we would have died out long time ago

_______ · 2018-05-30 18:17:56

So eclipciz, I think your full of shit. Your actually the perfect example of the self righteous griefers I mentioned. I have read your thread about killing and the first few lines was you admitting to killing civs for fun.

It's already been mentioned that it's still griefing because you've ruined other peoples game. You represent one of the worst parts of the community, How'd of you liked it of you got killed for being new back when you started playing. Why should people that have killed for fun in the past and likely still do get to dictate a village.

Not only that but you hinder productive people too. How are they going to make any progress when there's a mass murderer killing half your village every few hours. I think at that point most of them would be more worried about stopping or avoiding you then making the next batch of pies.

If you want to save the village like you.claim to. Stop crafting knives and contribute. Go out of collect what the village needs, Teach someone useful skills.

People aren't going to learn anything if you kill them. They will just say "Oh, Another griefer" and move on to the next town.

And the people on discord agreeing with you means nothing. Most of them are griefers from what I've seen.

Last edited by _______ (2018-05-30 18:43:32)

Teleri · 2018-05-30 19:12:10

_______ wrote:

So eclipciz, I think your full of shit. Your actually the perfect example of the self righteous griefers I mentioned. I have read your thread about killing and the first few lines was you admitting to killing civs for fun.
It's already been mentioned that it's still griefing because you've ruined other peoples game. You represent one of the worst parts of the community, How'd of you liked it of you got killed for being new back when you started playing. Why should people that have killed for fun in the past and likely still do get to dictate a village.
Not only that but you hinder productive people too. How are they going to make any progress when there's a mass murderer killing half your village every few hours. I think at that point most of them would be more worried about stopping or avoiding you then making the next batch of pies.
If you want to save the village like you.claim to. Stop crafting knives and contribute. Go out of collect what the village needs, Teach someone useful skills.
People aren't going to learn anything if you kill them. They will just say "Oh, Another griefer" and move on to the next town.
And the people on discord agreeing with you means nothing. Most of them are griefers from what I've seen.

This.

Instead of killing off too many people in a larger city, or killing someone because they did something wrong by accident or do not know what they are doing, help fix the problem.
Need food? Go get some. Tend the farms, get some sheep.
Someone lost the tools? Go make some more.
Someone accidentally mess up pies? Teach them.

These people who dont know how to play or make accidents WILL come back, even though you do not know who they are. Killing them does NOT solve your problem.
The reason food runs out is because someone doesnt take up a proper job (or not enough people do) and it all runs out because no one is paying attention. Instead of killing off everyone, be the guy who steps up and fixes the food issue.

The only time I justify killing is if its an actual griefer/murder or if there are too many babies being born too quickly. Sometimes babies pop up one after another and there is just NO WAY to actually feed them all that quickly.

sc0rp · 2018-05-30 19:16:03

Eclipciz wrote:

Culling to wipe out inefficient people and carrot sponges is not a detrement to society, contrary to others belief

As a fairly new player (1.5+ week) I've seen it happen only once or twice. And in the case I remember, people didn't even retailiate.

95% killings I see is either wiping out whole village, killing all young women, killing most productive people in society or just killing random people for the lols.

sc0rp · 2018-05-30 19:22:21

_______ wrote:

Not only that but you hinder productive people too. How are they going to make any progress when there's a mass murderer killing half your village every few hours. I think at that point most of them would be more worried about stopping or avoiding you then making the next batch of pies.

+1

If i hear multiple murder screams I'm not gonna happily work on composting to ensure that town can prosper. I gonna run out of here as fast as I can.

sammoh · 2018-05-30 20:14:54

I'm working on a PVP system with opt-in functionality.

It works like this:

1) Swords can wound people. Swords are heavy, and ice-cold.
2) Armor is warm. Armor is also heavy. Wearing armor with a sword equipped = neutral heat. Now you are efficient.
3) When you are wounded, you are forced by the game to hold a "wound" item. This is also really cold.
4) Wounds eventually kill you after a stagger/bleedout timer. I have made this functionally infinite for 2HOL.
5) Medicine can heal your wounds. Somebody else has to bring it to you, but you can heal yourself with it.

The end result is that the food bar becomes a health bar. Engaging in combat without proper gear will use up your food reserves quickly.

Engaging in combat without a dedicated person to feed you and carry medicine is ill-advised, as you are vulnerable when wounded.

Wounded players will eventually starve.

Being wounded while wearing armor slows your hunger rate significantly, now the medic has time to get to you after he heals the idiot without armor on.

Anyone who is not carrying a sword is faster than anyone carrying a sword. This allows people to escape PVP if they wish to flee. It also allows one side of a conflict to throw down their weapons and retreat.

I tested it today. It would be a vast improvement if vanilla adopted such a system.

Last edited by sammoh (2018-05-30 20:15:43)

YAHG · 2018-05-30 20:21:49

sammoh wrote:

I'm working on a PVP system with opt-in functionality.
It works like this:
1) Swords can wound people. Swords are heavy, and ice-cold.
2) Armor is warm. Armor is also heavy. Wearing armor with a sword equipped = neutral heat. Now you are efficient.
3) When you are wounded, you are forced by the game to hold a "wound" item. This is also really cold.
4) Wounds eventually kill you after a stagger/bleedout timer. I have made this functionally infinite for 2HOL.
5) Medicine can heal your wounds. Somebody else has to bring it to you, but you can heal yourself with it.
The end result is that the food bar becomes a health bar. Engaging in combat without proper gear will use up your food reserves quickly.
Engaging in combat without a dedicated person to feed you and carry medicine is ill-advised, as you are vulnerable when wounded.
Wounded players will eventually starve.
Being wounded while wearing armor slows your hunger rate significantly, now the medic has time to get to you after he heals the idiot without armor on.
Anyone who is not carrying a sword is faster than anyone carrying a sword. This allows people to escape PVP if they wish to flee. It also allows one side of a conflict to throw down their weapons and retreat.
I tested it today. It would be a vast improvement if vanilla adopted such a system.

That sounds like it would be really cumbersome, you can't just have the item lower our hunger by X?
I assume there is code that adds hunger bars for the different foods.

I would guess he would do an eat function and the items have a nutrition property, the eat function may
or may not check for a positive value but you could always break the check in code.

There was a code change involving mushrooms so that you can't drug people, the github log should reference
this so you can see how he allow/disallowed feeding people, you can just make the sword a hidden sort of food
item to reverse feed people.

Granted since it is all open you could just copy the function to work as a base for a wound function, I think the
temperature function checks people for equipped items so it would give you an example of how to check for worn
items so you could code in armor.

sammoh · 2018-05-30 20:28:27

YAHG wrote:

sammoh wrote:
I'm working on a PVP system with opt-in functionality.
It works like this:
1) Swords can wound people. Swords are heavy, and ice-cold.
2) Armor is warm. Armor is also heavy. Wearing armor with a sword equipped = neutral heat. Now you are efficient.
3) When you are wounded, you are forced by the game to hold a "wound" item. This is also really cold.
4) Wounds eventually kill you after a stagger/bleedout timer. I have made this functionally infinite for 2HOL.
5) Medicine can heal your wounds. Somebody else has to bring it to you, but you can heal yourself with it.
The end result is that the food bar becomes a health bar. Engaging in combat without proper gear will use up your food reserves quickly.
Engaging in combat without a dedicated person to feed you and carry medicine is ill-advised, as you are vulnerable when wounded.
Wounded players will eventually starve.
Being wounded while wearing armor slows your hunger rate significantly, now the medic has time to get to you after he heals the idiot without armor on.
Anyone who is not carrying a sword is faster than anyone carrying a sword. This allows people to escape PVP if they wish to flee. It also allows one side of a conflict to throw down their weapons and retreat.
I tested it today. It would be a vast improvement if vanilla adopted such a system.
That sounds like it would be really cumbersome, you can't just have the item lower our hunger by X?
I assume there is code that adds hunger bars for the different foods.
I would guess he would do an eat function and the items have a nutrition property, the eat function may
or may not check for a positive value but you could always break the check in code.
There was a code change involving mushrooms so that you can't drug people, the github log should reference
this so you can see how he allow/disallowed feeding people, you can just make the sword a hidden sort of food
item to reverse feed people.
Granted since it is all open you could just copy the function to work as a base for a wound function, I think the
temperature function checks people for equipped items so it would give you an example of how to check for worn
items so you could code in armor.

Doing as little surgery on the code itself as possible is important. I test the limits of the engine, I try not to expand the scope.

The fact that this works in a way that I can wrap my head around is enough to make a deep PVP system with logical rules to follow.

It prevents naked people with swords from killing entire villages.

It makes PVP a team sport, and any real battles between opposing forces would require the consent of both parties to a fight.

Governing the action through the food bar is pretty intuitive, and allows simulation of bleeding outside of the vanilla stagger timer.

YAHG · 2018-05-30 20:36:08

Deep pvp is good. I know Jason has said that it isn't a pvp game but he is just wrong.. if you CAN pvp is it pvp don't matter what the dev wants at that point now that you are in the pond it is better to swim than to say you arn't trying to get wet

august · 2018-05-30 20:39:29

Mates what are you on about I've played for over 100 hours and I've seen a handful of people getting killed, and I've been killed only once.

Are you the type of people who instantly suicide if they aren't born into the easy advanced civilization? Where they already have knives? Change your strategy, if it apparently doesn't work. Sometimes, civs are simply too crowded, sometimes, people are being carrot sponges. Maybe either of those were the case.

It does not make sense to me, in any case, that you would always want to stay in the same location. Move to a new place, if you find yourself in a way too big place. Evolutionary speaking, it's actually a great idea to spread your chances. Start a new town for example. Can't get griefed if there's no knife.

I'm telling anyone who keeps dying right now: It's not that hard to avoid! Change your strategy if it doesn't work!

Stop playing the blame game!

Last edited by august (2018-05-30 20:39:39)

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