If your a new player, DO NOT LISTEN TO THE FORUMS.

breezeknight · 2018-06-01 12:35:38

TrustyWay wrote:

You don't like tie people up ? We all want slaves :,(

you can have slaves after i have my prevention, protection, cure + random misclicking, unsuccessful attempts, backfiring while killing

AstroTitan · 2018-06-02 02:33:14

breezeknight wrote:

first you accept the way how OHOL deals out death while being killed, ALWAYS with only one single stroke & ALWAYS 100% successful
& then you criticize my formulation
this is not helpful

No. Only the knife is currently a broke way to easily kill someone (yes needs changing eventually). Bows are easy to dodge if you are paying attention. Attempts at murdering me are far from 100% successful. I would say 20% of bow wielders manage to kill me by surprise, and maybe 80-90% of knife wielders. It is pretty obvious if someone has a knife out and is walking toward you...just run away.

Criticize what formulation? I do agree with a lot of what you have said, but all you are offering are complaints about how unfair life is. I haven't seen you suggest a single solution to the problem aside from giving us a peaceful/non-violent way to combat the problem. You already have two: "Sir please don't kill me" or just run away if you see potential danger. If any other peaceful/non-violent ways of dealing with murderers exist please do share.

breezeknight wrote:

...adds another opportunity for more griefing by, again, another addition of another option to victimize players

The murder and griefing problems have plagued this game since release and Jason is obviously aware that it is a problem, but he has repeatedly said that he does not know a way to implement something that allows only those "in the right" to take action on those "in the wrong" without those "in the wrong" being able to victimize those "in the right" with the same mechanics. Yet again if you have any suggestions please do share.

breezeknight wrote:

you assumption that OHOL is a historically acurate game was rebuffed by Jason, he meant that it's not the case

I never claimed this game was historically accurate, it is far from it; however, it is absolutely analogous to RL societal development. After rereading the last 3 months of Jason's posts it is clear that Jason is trying to simulate the "human experience" as close as possible. He has also said it is not a game to develop a civilization from scratch, but to rebuild a civilization post-apocalypse. Regardless in it's current state, with max settlement population around 20, it is much closer to stone age tribal cultures than any other RL time period and that is why I reference it as such.

breezeknight wrote:

also your opinions how things worked in stone age & "primitive societies" are pure speculation, please just talk about what you know for sure how it works IRL instead to speculate while you just imagine things as it pleases you, i rather doubt you are an actual archeologist or anthropologist, so it's pure speculation without even any solid knowledge behind.

I am a well educated individual with a deep understanding of fundamental physics and the scientific method, as well as a passion for history and philosophy. They are not my opinions, but a distillation of facts into a sound hypothesis. We know as fact that primitive tribal cultures the world over frequently murdered each other in competition over resources (it is found both in their own historical accounts and physical archaeological evidence of ritual sacrifice and mass graves of slain warriors). We know as fact that isolated human cultures cut off from the outside world that still exist today (I am very familiar with at least one in the deep Amazon emerging in recent years) lead significantly violent lives as they struggle to survive(taken directly from the mouth of these people when they were questioned about why they fled the jungle...a competing murderous tribe already killed many of their people). Is it pure speculation that early humans in nearly identical societal environments to these modern primitives would have to deal with similar violence in competition for resources? I think not, I consider that a well founded hypothesis. If you don't consider the evidence enough to support my hypothesis then please don't believe it, that is your right as a free thinking individual. But please don't assume my statements are pure whimsical speculation if I simply choose not to go into a detailed explanation. Yes I may be wrong, and I would openly accept that, if someone were to provide evidence that disproves my hypothesis.

breezeknight wrote:

there is no options of prevention, protection & cure
also no options of random misclicking, no cases of unsuccessful attempts to kill, no backfiring either

Yes there are currently some limited actions that can be taken to reduce your chances of being murdered like running away at the sight of a knife or bow, or pleading for your life, etc. And yes there are options of random misclicking an object on the ground instead of the person because they just moved and now the knife is free game if your quick enough. I have definitely picked up a knife this way and chased my murderous cuz out of town. Would a 50/50 hit rate with knives and bows really improve the game? Now bears take on average six shots, sometime more. Rattlesnakes now kill 50% of people that try to knife them. Sounds fair to me considering bears and snakes kill WAY more players than other players do. But yes I agree that more gameplay options would be nice.

breezeknight wrote:

one cannot want to have a peaceful game while not giving every player, even those violent & aggressive players, the freedom to protect themselves against the violence of players who think they have the right to be aggressive & violent

Who ever claimed this is supposed to be a peaceful game? If someone is doing something that is endangering the survival of my family I best be able to do something about it, the only solution if they will not listen is to kill them before they kill us all. One cannot create a successful human society without first addressing the dark primal instincts that turn men into beasts. Jason adamantly supports murder in OHOL as an unfortunate but realistic problem that all societies must deal with, and rightfully so. Without someone committing crimes in the first place for people to condemn, not a single law would have ever been written and laws are a large portion of what defines modern society.

breezeknight wrote:

either everybody has the right to protect themselves or the whole system is unjust, skewed & corrupt

Sadly this is not the case in many portions of the world today. I would argue that large portions of our current world population live in societies that give them virtually zero right to protect themselves from injustice and corruption. So why should OHOL be any different.

breezeknight wrote:

i am not killed now either, because i don't play the game anymore lol

So what are you doing arguing about the current state of murder in the game if you no longer play and can logically have no idea what the current state of murder is? This game changes significantly on a weekly basis so using old experiences to justify "potential" current problems is just wrong. I feel your frustration with the topic and can relate as I have had multiple great lives ended prematurely by some evil doer. Unfortunately life just isn't fair IRL or in OHOL; in both you can be walking down the street on the greatest day of your life and get shanked by some dude that really liked your backpack. To really instill that "human experience" that Jason is striving for, interactions like this should be part of the experience. That OMG moment when you realized you just died to a stranger for no reason should have a comparable emotional impact to such an event happening IRL. That is the intent anyways, but for those of us that have played the game a lot and those that don't buy into the story they are playing the emotional impact is null and simply replaced by anger and frustration. If you find yourself not enjoying the game then take a break for a few months and wait for more changes to be made, then login and try them out before complaining about how broken the system is. The only "broken" thing right now in regards to murder is knives are nearly impossible to defend against, but more than likely they only kill one person before starving to death thanks to recent updates which is a significant consequence and serial murder prevention mechanism. Bows are no longer a huge threat because they need to be within your vision and a bow is pretty easy to see someone holding, so easy to dodge. IMO griefing/inexperienced players kill significantly more people than murderers do.

sc0rp · 2018-06-02 02:46:36

AstroTitan wrote:

I do agree with a lot of what you have said, but all you are offering are complaints about how unfair life is.

IRL when you've killed murderer, you've dealt with the problem. In OHOL, in best case, murderer is teleported to other village, with carte blanche, to continue murder spree there.

AstroTitan wrote:

I haven't seen you suggest a single solution to the problem aside from giving us a peaceful/non-violent way to combat the problem.

Karma, so griefers will play mostly with their ilk and don't bother rest of the people that don't find this entertaining.

YAHG · 2018-06-02 03:30:49

I have NEVER been killed by a snake that I was trying to kill.

You have to be on their tile for them to bit you, you attack from next tile over. I agree with rest.

Useless farm stalkers are most dangerous thing in town.. They just eat all the food and all the berries out in a slow wave of expanding death </3

sc0rp · 2018-06-02 03:35:43

AstroTitan wrote:

The murder and griefing problems have plagued this game since release and Jason is obviously aware that it is a problem, but he has repeatedly said that he does not know a way to implement something that allows only those "in the right" to take action on those "in the wrong" without those "in the wrong" being able to victimize those "in the right" with the same mechanics. Yet again if you have any suggestions please do share.

It has been already proposed many times - curse and karma. We can exploit the fact, that non-griefers highly outnumber griefers, but griefer usually harms a lot of people at once (not only by direct killing).

Every player in a game can curse you. To prevent abuse you can curse only once per game/day/whatever will work best, so it can't be used effectively by greifers themselves or over petty stuff. Being cursed 2-3 times shouldn't matter much, and your karma decays to neutral, so you are being "forgiven" your misdeeds over time. If you get, say, 5-10 people cursing you, you get sent to prugatory server. That means you spawn only in games with other griefers, to hone your griefing strategies. Punishment doesn't need to be harsh, only inevitable - it may last for few hours or a day or so. Then you are back on normal servers, but you are "on probation" for a week or so. If you get significant number of curses in this time, you get sent for longer and longer periods to purgatory, with longer and longer probation periods.

Actual numbers doesn't matter much, they can be tweaked over time. There may be also small variations, like giving people that invested more into the game "stronger" curse (like elders in village, people with higher karma). Or giving some protection against curse for noobs during their initial period, etc.

As non-griefers highly outnumber griefers, it shouldn't affect many players. Ideally almost nobody should be in purgator, unless he likes it. It should function more as detterrent, than punishment.

If you see any significant drawbacks to this, please share them. I really want to improve it.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-06-02 03:42:00)

sc0rp · 2018-06-02 05:02:21

Small addendum to my previous post about karma, that may please my opponents a bit. I don't want to prevent raids. So only your close blood relatives can curse you. If you take a horse with a cart and go kill people and plunder other town - God bless you. They can curse you how much they want - it has no impact or even bumps up your karma. Having city walls and guards starts to make sense then. Paying tribute by villages to larger town for protection also. Having experienced griefer born as your kid in town will be actually awesome.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-06-02 05:10:47)

TrustyWay · 2018-06-02 11:42:24

sc0rp wrote:

Small addendum to my previous post about karma, that may please my opponents a bit. I don't want to prevent raids. So only your close blood relatives can curse you. If you take a horse with a cart and go kill people and plunder other town - God bless you. They can curse you how much they want - it has no impact or even bumps up your karma. Having city walls and guards starts to make sense then. Paying tribute by villages to larger town for protection also. Having experienced griefer born as your kid in town will be actually awesome.

Already proposed many times, but rejected many times, why ? Here is why :

Biggest problem is that griefers will start to curse everyone and bye bye servers.

Why do you push that much on punishement systems ? We already make the tour a month ago, I'm sorry to be negatve but I just repeat why all rejected suggestions were rejected.

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-06-02 11:46:08)

sc0rp · 2018-06-02 11:50:29

TrustyWay wrote:

sc0rp wrote:
Small addendum to my previous post about karma, that may please my opponents a bit. I don't want to prevent raids. So only your close blood relatives can curse you. If you take a horse with a cart and go kill people and plunder other town - God bless you. They can curse you how much they want - it has no impact or even bumps up your karma. Having city walls and guards starts to make sense then. Paying tribute by villages to larger town for protection also. Having experienced griefer born as your kid in town will be actually awesome.
Already proposed many times, but rejected many times, why ? Here is why :
Biggest problem is that griefers will start to curse everyone and bye bye servers.

It's clearly addressed in proposal:
To prevent abuse you can curse only once per game/day/whatever will work best, so it can't be used effectively by greifers themselves or over petty stuff. Being cursed 2-3 times shouldn't matter much, and your karma decays to neutral, so you are being "forgiven" your misdeeds over time. If you get, say, 5-10 people cursing you, you get sent to prugatory server.

TrustyWay wrote:

Why do you push that much on punishement systems ?

Griefers spoil fun for far too many people. I think that's why we have so few active players. And I want to see this game flourish.

TrustyWay wrote:

We already make the tour a month ago, I'm sorry to be negatve but I just repeat why all rejected suggestions were rejected.

Please show me where they were rejected and why. So far your arguments are completly not convincing.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-06-02 11:53:35)

TrustyWay · 2018-06-02 12:04:02

sc0rp wrote:

TrustyWay wrote:
sc0rp wrote:
Small addendum to my previous post about karma, that may please my opponents a bit. I don't want to prevent raids. So only your close blood relatives can curse you. If you take a horse with a cart and go kill people and plunder other town - God bless you. They can curse you how much they want - it has no impact or even bumps up your karma. Having city walls and guards starts to make sense then. Paying tribute by villages to larger town for protection also. Having experienced griefer born as your kid in town will be actually awesome.
Already proposed many times, but rejected many times, why ? Here is why :
Biggest problem is that griefers will start to curse everyone and bye bye servers.
It's clearly addressed in proposal:
To prevent abuse you can curse only once per game/day/whatever will work best, so it can't be used effectively by greifers themselves or over petty stuff. Being cursed 2-3 times shouldn't matter much, and your karma decays to neutral, so you are being "forgiven" your misdeeds over time. If you get, say, 5-10 people cursing you, you get sent to prugatory server.
TrustyWay wrote:
Why do you push that much on punishement systems ?
Griefers spoil fun for far too many people. That's why.
TrustyWay wrote:
We already make the tour a month ago, I'm sorry to be negatve but I just repeat why all rejected suggestions were rejected.
Please show me where they were rejected and why. So far your arguments are completly not convincing.

Well it is yours that aren't conviencing eithers. If there were conviencing they already would be implemanted.

If you want to find them, use the search function.

Lineage ban is already a cursing tool, the ban is bigger if the population is higher. You can't come back in the family you were, which is fine, he will end up eve if he tries to hard.

So you better kill him instead of waiting for him to die of oldness to curse him, which sounds silly. That is how you deal with griefers.

Even if you can curse once, you can make other people curse dead people and I'm sure they wouldn't mind. If you can curse once a while in the whole family, then griefer would curse someone before being cursed.

See, it doesn't work.

I would have love helping you suggest my old suggestion.

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-06-02 12:10:22)

YAHG · 2018-06-02 14:03:43

Where is search function?????? I can not find it yet

sc0rp · 2018-06-02 14:13:14

YAHG wrote:

Where is search function?????? I can not find it yet

Top menu: Index User list Search Profile Logout

YAHG · 2018-06-02 14:20:35

sc0rp wrote:

YAHG wrote:
Where is search function?????? I can not find it yet
Top menu: Index User list Search Profile Logout

Damn.... right in front of me...

Thank you sc0rp, it was getting harder and harder to find old threads

sc0rp · 2018-06-02 14:36:16

TrustyWay wrote:

Well it is yours that aren't conviencing eithers. If there were conviencing they already would be implemanted.

That's strawman. Jason is juggling many task and other things may have been more important. If anything at all, he acknowleded the problem by adding lineage ban to remove repeated griefing, even if it has drawbacks for other players. So that shows he thinks problem is or at least was serious.

TrustyWay wrote:

If you want to find them, use the search function.

Can't find any sensible arguments against propositions close to mine. That's why I'm asking. If you can point me to relevant posts, or what exactly to search for, that would help me a lot.

TrustyWay wrote:

Lineage ban is already a cursing tool,

It isn't - it just spreads griefing more evenly among players. Does nothing to prevent it (except that repeated griefing in harder to achieve).

TrustyWay wrote:

You can't come back in the family you were,

That does nothing in most serious cases, when you've eradicated the whole lineage. You cannot come back anyway - they are no more.

TrustyWay wrote:

he will end up eve if he tries to hard.

That's only because there are very few active players. And that's what I'm trying to improve.

TrustyWay wrote:

So you better kill him instead of waiting for him to die of oldness to curse him, which sounds silly.

I'm nowhere proposing that you need to kill or wait for griefer to die to curse him - you can do it anytime.

TrustyWay wrote:

Even if you can curse once, you can make other people curse dead people and I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

That may be valid issue. However I'm not so sure that people will use the only curse that they have for whole day, just because some random stranger asked them to. It's hard to predict before it's implemented though. There are ways to counter it, if it becomes a real issue.

TrustyWay wrote:

If you can curse once a while in the whole family, then griefer would curse someone before being cursed.
See, it doesn't work.

You can curse, say, once per day. There is one griefer trying to murder ten other people in a village. He gives one curse, which doesn't do anything on its own. He gets 10, which sends him to purgatory next game. Where is the problem? What doesn't work?

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-06-02 14:42:07)

YAHG · 2018-06-02 14:41:32

I do not look forward to being cursed because people think I am the murderer.

Or if I drain the pond cause they don't work that way anymore.

Or if they just think it is funny on discord, or people make shit up.

Popularity contests leading into punishment mechanics seem to turn places into things like the Reddit hivemind.

sc0rp · 2018-06-02 14:45:25

YAHG wrote:

I do not look forward to being cursed because people think I am the murderer.
Or if I drain the pond cause they don't work that way anymore.
Or if they just think it is funny on discord, or people make shit up.
Popularity contests leading into punishment mechanics seem to turn places into things like the Reddit hivemind.

Let's do nothing, because it cannot be perfect, is never very strong argument. We have courts and jails IRL, even if we cannot catch every murderer or thief. And even if sometimes someone innocent is convicted. Main reason is detterence, not punishment.

But maybe, in fact, it should be a little bit harder than just saying it, to curse somebody, so nobody would even bother doing it for petty issues.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-06-02 14:52:33)

YAHG · 2018-06-02 14:57:07

I see it as mostly fine the way it is. I just want to be able to stab them back in death stagger.
It isn't about not being perfect it is that it will be WORSE.

Also it is pretty rude to tell people what they are saying, simplifying it to make it sound dumb is petty way to try to convince people..

The same 4-5 people just keep bitching over and over about the same thing, like if they posted the same thread a hundred more times everyone would agree with them.

sc0rp · 2018-06-02 15:24:49

YAHG wrote:

I see it as mostly fine the way it is. I just want to be able to stab them back in death stagger.
It isn't about not being perfect it is that it will be WORSE.

Ok, I understand that you may have an opinion that there isn't any problem to solve there. Let's agree to disagree.

YAHG wrote:

Also it is pretty rude to tell people what they are saying, simplifying it to make it sound dumb is petty way to try to convince people..

I'm quoting exactly what people are saying, so... Where I did it? I acknowledged your point that cursing could be used over petty stuff. And I definitely don't want that either.

P.S. I'm gonna chill now, there are indeed too many posts about that.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-06-02 15:25:30)

YAHG · 2018-06-02 15:58:25

sc0rp wrote:

Let's do nothing, because it cannot be perfect

This here. Maybe I am overreacting but it reads to me like simplifying it into something that sounds dumb.

You can say agreeing to disagree, but fuck that.. I see karma changes as straight up bad, not imperfect..
bad. Obviously it isn't my place nor am I telling you to shut up etc.

Maybe I need more chill but when it seems like it is something that will effect something I like negatively,
I don't really see why I should do wishy washy stuff like "agree to disagree" .

You and Baker are probably right and I should just let it die like Eve's baby

ishkibable · 2018-06-02 17:32:22

Crow wrote:

I think in the time I've been playing I've only been murdered once and it was a total accident. My grandmother was putting down a bow right as I stepped onto that tile.
Definitely stepped on rattlesnakes more times than I can remember.

I was accidentally murdered by my grandma too! It was also my only time, but it was a knife. She (think her name was Misty) goes “Here, please carry on my legacy”, goes to put down the knife and accidentally clicks the wrong square and stabs me lol. Only experience of being murdered (although others have tried), and i actually found it quite enjoyable

Last edited by ishkibable (2018-06-02 17:33:25)

Glassius · 2018-06-13 20:03:37

YAHG and jason, there are many points your are missing.

1. Karma system does not have to be server ban. It can be Cain's mark after reborn. The punishment would be up to players. Personally, if we had it, I would build a pen for bear. And throw there some marked kids. Just for fun.
2. Automatic karma system, based on killing is bad. Why punish the police? What about those filthy little thieves? Or lassos makers? Karma must base on curse from other players. Maybe put red rose on grave to curse, blue to bless? The most blessed person would be reborn with aureola
3. What if players curse actually a good person? Very good drama!

I've also made quite a comprehensive suggestion how to use griefing for our advantage... I mean fun

Munich · 2018-06-14 16:25:10

Hi all. Created an account just to give my two cents at this interesting topic.
Have been playing a lot, but I'm not a veteran. I've only saw a murder once, got scare and run away.
But that's it, I don't see murder as an endemic critical issue, game is excellent despite that.

Now on the solution to killings side; maybe some kind of self-defense dynamic my be activated once attacked. This would require of course than you don't die of a single stab. Or implent a kind of jail, permanent after resapwn for a period of time (this may require due legal process, would be awesome too!).

In conclusion, NEW PLAYERS: DON'T WORRY ABOUT BEING MURDERER. Most people is civil. C'mon, some communities buries their dead. Have faith on OHOL humanity.

TrustyWay · 2018-06-14 17:31:02

Munich wrote:

Hi all. Created an account just to give my two cents at this interesting topic.
Have been playing a lot, but I'm not a veteran. I've only saw a murder once, got scare and run away.
But that's it, I don't see murder as an endemic critical issue, game is excellent despite that.
Now on the solution to killings side; maybe some kind of self-defense dynamic my be activated once attacked. This would require of course than you don't die of a single stab. Or implent a kind of jail, permanent after resapwn for a period of time (this may require due legal process, would be awesome too!).
In conclusion, NEW PLAYERS: DON'T WORRY ABOUT BEING MURDERER. Most people is civil. C'mon, some communities buries their dead. Have faith on OHOL humanity.

Murderers are in regression, but we only hear the loudest. Last time I have been stabbed, my killer complained on the forum people killed him back.

YAHG · 2018-06-14 22:05:48

TrustyWay wrote:

Murderers are in regression, but we only hear the loudest.

This.

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2018-06-01 12:35:38

Re: If your a new player, DO NOT LISTEN TO THE FORUMS.

#27 2018-06-02 02:33:14

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#28 2018-06-02 02:46:36

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#40 2018-06-02 14:45:25

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#41 2018-06-02 14:57:07

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#42 2018-06-02 15:24:49

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#44 2018-06-02 17:32:22

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#45 2018-06-13 20:03:37

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