The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

ZneoC · 2018-06-10 02:29:32

Updated main post!!!!!
For Newcomers to the topic:

You don't have to read the full thread, main post captures the highlights!

MOST RECENT EDIT!
Saw a video where someone had successfully built a large compound, it LOOKED AMAZING! The character in white that was running around (The streamer I was watching) the first immediate reaction was to try to break down the walls, but couldn't, Instead of trying to trade for food. AH good times.

Which means that trading for food is such a new concept that the player's minds are blown?

I wonder what the communication break down is.

Oh, and crates get turned into carts with a stick. Forgot about that.

so thanks to user pein:
put the lid on box and cant be moved
a grave with u letter also cheap!

SO that is VERY important, otherwise you let the terrorists win!

There is a OHOL biggest fantasy thread that suggested shops in the future for large towns, and I thought, how could we do it now?

I'll try and keep it tldr, but put better explanations and ideas below. I don't own the game yet, but I spend some of my free time on forums, and alot of time talking g to streamers who play while I do my own thing. Since I do not have any actual in-game time, and only the knowledge, I think the forum would be a great place to get the community involved and start a new way of playing.

So let's begin!

The idea is to encapsulate a bakery, with enough room for storage and 1 door leading into another building placed in the perfect temp zone for raising kids, and a single door locked leading out into the world.

The bakery supplies the nursing mother's with good food (pies for starters early civ), and the bakery is supplied by the people working on the town doing their thing.

End of tldr.

Why this? Well here's why it is on the forums: you are probably the best players, who have the most knowledge.

As a baker: you would be in charge of haggling food selling and supply of the bakery to make goods.

2. Training next gen.
3. Crafting food.
4. Making pottery(maybe at first).
5. Working with nursery for planning what you need(farms and food supplies)
6.the only key to the bakery inside the bakery held by grandmaster baker.

As a nursery worker:
1. Giving new babies a tour.
2. Feeding.
3. Teaching the new system.
4. Communicating with the baker and supplying the baker with kids.
5. Grandmaster cheif with the only key to the nursery, inside the nursery.

Why this system?

It's greifer proof(ish?)
1. Since no one on bakery/ nursery will have a knife, they can't kill babies.
2. If someone gets into the nursery, they would have to be let into the bakery to finish off the civ.
3. The people in bakery can stay there until murder dies of age, cuz of food in the bakery.

It gives players something to do.
1. Players can trade small bits of food for better food, or clothes, or w/e until other shops open up.
2. Gives players someone to talk to for quests for food.

It allows for stable civs to develop
1.steady food source.
2. Safe place to grow.
3. Once grown they aren't allowed back in(no adults with knife and can end an entire civ)

It can lay the ground work for other shops.
1.if this works, you can have black Smith check out knife for people who want to work on sheep pen, which then gets returned for goods back.

2. Dispense knifes to kill murderers.

3. Craft tools the city needs and keep track of it.

4. Train others in blacksmithing.
5.efficiently use iron.

How this can fail as I see it now:

1. No other food production should exists. Ovens should be destroyed, and production. Should be kept local.

End of my lunch break , of this is a good idea lemme know. O will update with good ideas as people add them.

Quick edits:

Updated greifer info.
Options:
1. Enclose important areas with doors and locks, and begin trade through window.
1. Smith has only key, mostly trade for iron etc..
2. The baker has only one key and trades for just about anything, could be self sufficient (Own farm, own well etc...)
2.A. Optionally could have nursery attached.
2.B. Optionally nursery should be located in good temp area.
3. Nursery will be fed by baker, mainly in charge of running the baby-jail/tutorial room.
3.A. Could be directly attached to the nursery, and the nursery COULD run a small berry farm.

2. Fully enclosed society built for maintaining baby pop.
1. The Forge could be attached to main complex.
1.A. With or without its won shop window.
2. The nursery could be attached to Main Complex.
2.A. With its own well, in a good temp zone.
2.B. Could have its own personal berry farm for kids to teach basics.
3. The bakery could have a trade window.
3.A. The bakery could have the more logistically frightening farm concepts(for new players) complex enterance attached to the bakery(with or without key).
4. The Main Complex could have the main Door with one key, to allow for solo management.

3. Or just do the above in any fashion, and try to run it as as one person crew.

Other notes to keep in mind:

The trading can be either done through 2 seperate locations using graves or boxes, or 1 single location. (Thx pien for grave suggestion).

I really like the idea of a personal server, or I will run the tests on 2hol when I get paid irl. Il will make a post about it after I play and get used to game-play, and get a discord group (Or teamspeak) together.

TTYL!

Last edited by ZneoC (2018-06-11 23:44:25)

YAHG · 2018-06-10 02:47:14

There is no enforcing any of this in game at all.
At least play on 2hol a little bit.
Griefer proof my ass

startafight · 2018-06-10 02:52:45

ive seen a lot of bakeries in my time and the problem with ur describing is this: whats to stop people from just taking things?

thats already how people play this game and its real hard to teach ppl new things (we see this with each new update). its more likely that ppl will be like "oh sweet, a pie" and grab it. then what will the baker do? kill that person for not giving something in exchange?

this tradition wouldve had to be in place for a while to actually catch on, so when would it be implemented? 3rd gen? 6th gen? what happens when the population dies down because of the 3 hour family tree ban?

basically what im saying is that there is no system enforcing rules and that teaching rules takes foreveeeeeeer. even if a mother is designated as the baby teacher there are so many afk babies!

we would need *actual* currency and *actual* guards that dont go rouge and turn into murderers

and say someone actually gets the system going, whats the next generation going to gain from continuing this system? it doesnt provide any essential service and requires consolidation of power to a single institution (of baking)

keeping ppl fed is already a huge task without having to ration out food individually. and this kind of system would take a MASSIVE population to sustain

[to do some quick math:

you generally have 2-3 people working as smiths. to get knives and locks and keys to ensure this system is held up you would need them to cooperate

then you would have 2~ bakers. but in the current game ppl who r generally hanging around the oven just help out for pie baking sessions

then u would have lets say 3-4 farmers constantly watering and harvesting a patch. then with all the possibilities of crops lets say there are 3 fields (thats about the amount ive come across so far)

then u would need 1 person managing wheat supplies

and 3-5 people working as guards for each of the fields and bakeries and just general guarding

then u would need around 2 mothers for teaching and sustaining babies

and then ud have to have around 3-4 people doing building and bringing supplies around to make sure that everyones got what they need

so this would mean this system would require 16-21 people coordinating together]

(this is without rabbit trappers and far-distance gatherers) and tbh so far i think the most players ive ever had actually work with me was 5

this would only be able to work with absolutely no griefers and population drop offs.

i think itd be a cool concept in theory but rn the towns are too small and disorganized for this kind of system to be implemented and kept. there needs to be consolidation of power before rules are set in place. thats why people hoard weapons and lock chests

ik this sounds like im completely shooting down ur idea but i think it really is something interesting! it just requires a lot of work that ppl dont generally put into the game. maybe if the boots family was still around we couldve tested this...

Rebel · 2018-06-10 03:26:12

internal trading wont work, there is nothing stopping people from stealing your pies you made, unless you lock it, but people can still make keys and rob you AND what happens if you die collecting something away from town like water and you lose the key for your trainee, plus once there is more then a couple of "shops" people will have duplicate keys.

I love the idea, but in practice does not work. the best way to implement this is spreading your "shops" some distance apart where horse and carts are needed for transporting it, EG.

A Miller brings you flour for Pies
A shepherd brings you mutton for pies

You can then also trade pies for clothes, tools etc from other people.

HOWEVER. This will never happen.
1. You will always have to have a eve camp where everyone shares and crafts things.
2. you can't organize a town of this scale in one life
3. in most cases, your trainnee will die or not understand whats going on.
4. Buildings take a while to build, Also, Experts who know how to basket/box craft with one crafting tile only need small spaces to work HOWEVER the trainee may not be as good.
5. Its risky business forcing people to trade for food, you will just get murdered by anyone who really needs the food or Thinks that the town is starving.
6. Again, cannot do this in one lifetime.

Town trading is nice, I have seen it happen multiple times when big towns get too populated and food gets low, people just grab a basket and run for the hills, some survive and make new villages later to trade with the big town.

its selfish and there is no reason to trade, You don't make a profit you have no skill set that someone else cant do, as soon as you say "yeah you cant have this unless you give me flour" they will just make their own pies with that flour. Specialization is key to commerce its econ 101, and there is no skill trees here.

Maybe we should focus on town trading. Food trading probs is a bad idea, each town should have its own food network, but there is no reason why a well-off town can trade food to another town for these items. however Tools or clothes, even people can be traded. I once bought a small girl with a cart of a full set of clothes as our village had no females.

Another point should be made that lives are short, unless roads are made to each town, then trading wont last long, also towns can change within a generation, One min there is a baker making carts of pies, but then the shepherd dies so no mutton then the baker dies and no one takes over..

If Jason Makes barter stands, would be a great idea EG You put a basket of pies on it and ask for a bowl of flour, I can see how this would be implemented and think it would work well.
EG, you cannot swap with the item on the stand unless you are swapping with the item it is asking for, would improve logistics. I personally would love it, but I don't know if it has its place here. we have keys so Jason must think there is a need for personal chests. this would give people a reason to use them apart from to hide tools from griefers.

I just know for a fact, that if trading was implemented, towns would die out fast or people would just not bother with it, Yes its easier to Trade flour for three pies but what happens when you start laking? no pies left at the store, fuck it ill make my own and give them out for free.

This game is NOT a CIV building game, it isn't and people who tell you otherwise clearly haven't played it enough, there is no way to translate your plans for a town through generations and EVERY town ends up being a mess until and pro player comes along decided to organise it, but that only lasts like 20 mins until the next gen is born.

Jesus that was a long post. XD sorry about the spelling error i cba to proof read.

YAHG · 2018-06-10 03:30:54

dnot wrroy ddue poplee are pettry good at rnideag awyynas..

JackTreehorn · 2018-06-10 03:43:34

The biggest problem I see is that in the current state of the game fully enclosed buildings are awful. Greifers can easily block entry ways with any number of indestructible buildings (With Stone walls, roses.)

Locks are the next issue, My feeling is that locks should only be used on lock boxes for weapons.
Too often do i see people locking all the best items in a room and then lose the key.
Making a new key requires making more locked objects.
As i experienced you can make lots of keys and not find the right one, wasting iron and locking useless boxes along the way.
There are ten Keys and picking the right one is often harder then you think.

My take on the best strategy is to make open buildings by only making corner nooks for people to work. (Two stone walls at a right angle.)

YAHG · 2018-06-10 03:45:09

I still think that outside of a sheep pen there are no walls that help a city thrive at all. None.

They only get in the way when you are trying to go somewhere.

ZneoC · 2018-06-10 04:02:31

I only have a 10 minute break, and I really want to address you ideas in a thorough response, but no time right now.

But after a quick read I understand the problemI absolutely agree with cooperation concerns.

Where is the best place so who are dedicated to testing ideas located? The forums.
When I play together with you, I would want to play with a team of equally invested people working on a goal. And I think that we can do this.

Briefers cannot just kill for food. I think horizontal crates allow for trade of objects w/ no little contact.

No weapons in interior means no internal killing.

Sorry gtg! Will respond later tonight.

startafight · 2018-06-10 04:56:24

ZneoC wrote:

I only have a 10 minute break, and I really want to address you ideas in a thorough response, but no time right now.
But after a quick read I understand the problemI absolutely agree with cooperation concerns.

Where is the best place so who are dedicated to testing ideas located? The forums.
When I play together with you, I would want to play with a team of equally invested people working on a goal. And I think that we can do this.
Briefers cannot just kill for food. I think horizontal crates allow for trade of objects w/ no little contact.
No weapons in interior means no internal killing.
Sorry gtg! Will respond later tonight.

if u manage to get enough ppl from the discord to join a private server itd be cool to try out. maybe check out the 2hol discord n ask about for ppl who r interested in participating in order to reduce the possibility of griefers n noobs

pein · 2018-06-10 06:37:47

the issues are:time and resources

i can imagine i could make it and have 10 min as a trader, more like a receptionist

stone walls are expensive, a big enough trash pit pen might work, they can dig you out but unlikely they put 19 items in one pit

aldough for trading, i can imagine graves! yes, you can ask for example for sheep food (berry bowl with carrot) as currency, have an enclosed room with a small airlock, inside sheep which you feed, tending some bushes, buildign around water well, upgraded, bucket
making compost, wheat, carrot can only made if you make a pen inside pen
you can ask for furs too, have enough thread

not liek a trader, more like a receptionist would work, people give you stuff, for safekeeping, collecting, you make wool and needle, clothes, ask for branches, sheep food, etc.

you put them together inside and reward people with it, you need knowledge of the biomes, what and where to get, work undisturbed amd help people who help you, i imagine not everybody would want to rob you, and send others for intstructions

you could swap by placing on grave, swap sides, take item, or them paying first

nursery is other idea, but if you make a pen like this, nursery needs only a fence, or a flatsone on a grave, so babies wont run out to suicide and would be kinda interesting for them to spawn into a small room, reusing wall parts possible so you could have multiple nurseries and females in them, raising kids, you would give free pies for moms, a basket with a sharp stone

you could ask back things like flint chip, sharp stone, anyone could ask to borrow a tool then give back(not sure what can be placed on a grave, maybe just basic items) but later you could have a second door and boxes with lid to do the same

so kinda receptionist/quest giver in a hotel like place

might need a life to set it up and hiding the key when get back

Rebel · 2018-06-10 06:48:49

pein wrote:

the issues are:time and resources
stone walls are expensive, a big enough trash pit pen might work, they can dig you out but unlikely they put 19 items in one pit

Honestly Pein, stop encouraging this horrible idea of pit/graves walls, it's the ugliest shit I have ever seen. Fences are cheap, it's literally a little bit of gathering, its one more step over a pit
You still need a shovel, you still need to hit stakes with a hammer, why can't you just go collect some bloody branches for that sake of not making towns look like shit.
just because you cant be arsed to gather, don't punish the rest of us who like nice looking towns. plus pit pens take ages to fix up too, they are just the worst please stop.

on a side, note I like your idea oh a "bank" basically, but again would only really work on private servers.

As more tech Is added I am sure one day he will consider some sort of trading/banter mechanic that allows us to control our logistics, for now just be happy with Sauerkraut.

pein · 2018-06-10 08:20:53

Rebel wrote:

pein wrote:
the issues are:time and resources
stone walls are expensive, a big enough trash pit pen might work, they can dig you out but unlikely they put 19 items in one pit
Honestly Pein, stop encouraging this horrible idea of pit/graves walls, it's the ugliest shit I have ever seen. Fences are cheap, it's literally a little bit of gathering, its one more step over a pit
You still need a shovel, you still need to hit stakes with a hammer, why can't you just go collect some bloody branches for that sake of not making towns look like shit.
just because you cant be arsed to gather, don't punish the rest of us who like nice looking towns. plus pit pens take ages to fix up too, they are just the worst please stop.
on a side, note I like your idea oh a "bank" basically, but again would only really work on private servers.
As more tech Is added I am sure one day he will consider some sort of trading/banter mechanic that allows us to control our logistics, for now just be happy with Sauerkraut.

pit grave looks 10 time better than a grave block, they look the fucking same as other graves, i dont know why you cant place it in four walls without corner, but you can place it in a 4x4 block, where you got no intention of putting a letter on it from center to edge, i dont know why cant you leave 1 tile between 2x2 graves, or place them as a wall around the city rather than filling a biome with noob kids bones and wasting a shovel on them
4 out 500 graves convinced me they never gonna be finished, also i seen soo many times they chuck down a grave in middle of the city, cause obviously, their mom was sooo good, that needs to block the way of everybody else

i know a lot of people annoyed by people like you and they might be less, but they make more work than you

you are the person who fucks up my 4th chisel without asking to make a stone room and lock out others, or who cries about a board i take, when i made all the tools for you to make it, or the one who makes a road before solving the food issue

i made out of fences, adobe bases, using ponds, wells, cactus, you know what? spend a life on making a 4x5 adobe room, when we had resources, 3 of us spent a lifetime making a 5 by 5 with a better than average spot where we had long shafts, still we had to go in 3 other biomes

problem is, you need carts to gather enough fences, which currently comes from ropes, which cant be made after you nulled the closest green biomes and milkweed farming only works after composting, and even if i make 3 carts, people feel entitled to take it instantly

fences dont look good either, vertical ones maybe, a player taking a fence rail dont look good either, even with his best intention takes it down and releases all the sheep, you can just start it over
so you need to place it diagonally, and looks like the crappiest thing ever, but i wouldnt place it differently cause it wont function
the other thing is griefers, they gonna ruin your nice fences just for the sake of it, or a kid gonna click the fence instead of the dung inside it, pits are harder to remove if fixed down, and people fix it down 90%

i generally dont drop anything on it so you can remove it, after building a normal fence around it, increasing its size, lot of people do it, stays in my topic, any attempts i seen ended up int o a triple walled pen with some fences, some pits, some stone, if its a way to grief it, they do it
i cant be arsed to spend a lifetime on something, people gonna ruin in 10 minutes
as you or others can be arsed to go gather for the city
you like nice looking town you didnt made maybe, cause that one step you talk about is a difference of 20+ minutes, so pretty obvious you dint made one yourself, and if you dont realize that a city is not a city without compost and why time is more important than looks, than you dont play this game properly. so yeah, when i make it gen 2, or when you dont make it under a lifetime, and others got no clue what to do with the branches, then dont cry about the look of it, i put it further every time

i make that, the shears, the spindle and the needles too, rather than make a 3x3 fence and die without a sheep, next 5 generation spends carrot farming with no compost, happens all the time

never seen a working fence pen which lasted too much, seeing tongs and short shafts made out of rails makes me want to leave the place, imagining people working hard just for someone to destroy it for good

also making roads by cutting the trees in the green biome is ugly, a city without trees is ugly, no ability make fire is deadly, so roads to me are ugly, leading into a graveyard with no function

containment is first
should be noob proof
should be grief proof

so far few things are blocking as far as i know (not sure on update)
adobe wall which decays
adobe base which is cheaper and decays
stone which wont decay but its expensive and slow, same as a fence as griefed by empty hand
fences which can be griefed by hand and destroyed with shovel
graves from flatstone -its even portable
sheep bones which decay and having 16 requires killing 16
pits unfixed which are fast to make, can be extended and rearanged
pits fixed which are same as stone wall (needs dedicated griefers) and doesnt cover
graves with letter which are same in every quality with a stone wall, with added benefit of not covering tiles and ability to hold items

explain why a wall of graves 1x16 is bad for you and a 4x4 is looking good when first can block out the animals, second just comes from the "We can fuck up more shovels and have more dead kids buried in smaller place" thinking

and for last, a deal: i make a pen of pits of a "P" shape, so you know its mine, you obviously can build fences around it and remove it, next time i reborn, i will personally plant one wheat and one berry bush for each fence

Acozi · 2018-06-10 08:25:35

I just spent a lifetime selling flowers. One pie per flower. When someone stole a basket I let the town know know he was a greider and someone murdered him for me. Was amazing.

Fresh flowers!

Izzytok · 2018-06-10 09:26:16

I don't like the looks of pit pens, but I have to agree with pein here, fenced pens are too labour intensive, and too easy to ruin. I literally spent a lifetime making a 3x3 fenced pen. I might not have been super efficient but still, if I just dug a few holes and filed the corners up, I'd be done in way less time.

More on topic though, I wish we could set up a system like that, but currently food production is not centralized enough for it to work. If you don't make the pies available to everyone, they'll just munch on the berries or carrots, and you'll just sit inside your bakery wondering where everyone is, and why you aren't delievered any ingredients.

Rebel · 2018-06-10 10:02:21

pein wrote:

Rebel wrote:
pein wrote:
the issues are:time and resources
stone walls are expensive, a big enough trash pit pen might work, they can dig you out but unlikely they put 19 items in one pit
Honestly Pein, stop encouraging this horrible idea of pit/graves walls, it's the ugliest shit I have ever seen. Fences are cheap, it's literally a little bit of gathering, its one more step over a pit
You still need a shovel, you still need to hit stakes with a hammer, why can't you just go collect some bloody branches for that sake of not making towns look like shit.
just because you cant be arsed to gather, don't punish the rest of us who like nice looking towns. plus pit pens take ages to fix up too, they are just the worst please stop.
on a side, note I like your idea oh a "bank" basically, but again would only really work on private servers.
As more tech Is added I am sure one day he will consider some sort of trading/banter mechanic that allows us to control our logistics, for now just be happy with Sauerkraut.
pit grave looks 10 time better than a grave block, they look the fucking same as other graves, i dont know why you cant place it in four walls without corner, but you can place it in a 4x4 block, where you got no intention of putting a letter on it from center to edge, i dont know why cant you leave 1 tile between 2x2 graves, or place them as a wall around the city rather than filling a biome with noob kids bones and wasting a shovel on them
4 out 500 graves convinced me they never gonna be finished, also i seen soo many times they chuck down a grave in middle of the city, cause obviously, their mom was sooo good, that needs to block the way of everybody else
i know a lot of people annoyed by people like you and they might be less, but they make more work than you
you are the person who fucks up my 4th chisel without asking to make a stone room and lock out others, or who cries about a board i take, when i made all the tools for you to make it, or the one who makes a road before solving the food issue
i made out of fences, adobe bases, using ponds, wells, cactus, you know what? spend a life on making a 4x5 adobe room, when we had resources, 3 of us spent a lifetime making a 5 by 5 with a better than average spot where we had long shafts, still we had to go in 3 other biomes
problem is, you need carts to gather enough fences, which currently comes from ropes, which cant be made after you nulled the closest green biomes and milkweed farming only works after composting, and even if i make 3 carts, people feel entitled to take it instantly
fences dont look good either, vertical ones maybe, a player taking a fence rail dont look good either, even with his best intention takes it down and releases all the sheep, you can just start it over
so you need to place it diagonally, and looks like the crappiest thing ever, but i wouldnt place it differently cause it wont function
the other thing is griefers, they gonna ruin your nice fences just for the sake of it, or a kid gonna click the fence instead of the dung inside it, pits are harder to remove if fixed down, and people fix it down 90%
i generally dont drop anything on it so you can remove it, after building a normal fence around it, increasing its size, lot of people do it, stays in my topic, any attempts i seen ended up int o a triple walled pen with some fences, some pits, some stone, if its a way to grief it, they do it
i cant be arsed to spend a lifetime on something, people gonna ruin in 10 minutes
as you or others can be arsed to go gather for the city
you like nice looking town you didnt made maybe, cause that one step you talk about is a difference of 20+ minutes, so pretty obvious you dint made one yourself, and if you dont realize that a city is not a city without compost and why time is more important than looks, than you dont play this game properly. so yeah, when i make it gen 2, or when you dont make it under a lifetime, and others got no clue what to do with the branches, then dont cry about the look of it, i put it further every time
i make that, the shears, the spindle and the needles too, rather than make a 3x3 fence and die without a sheep, next 5 generation spends carrot farming with no compost, happens all the time
never seen a working fence pen which lasted too much, seeing tongs and short shafts made out of rails makes me want to leave the place, imagining people working hard just for someone to destroy it for good
also making roads by cutting the trees in the green biome is ugly, a city without trees is ugly, no ability make fire is deadly, so roads to me are ugly, leading into a graveyard with no function
containment is first
should be noob proof
should be grief proof
so far few things are blocking as far as i know (not sure on update)
adobe wall which decays
adobe base which is cheaper and decays
stone which wont decay but its expensive and slow, same as a fence as griefed by empty hand
fences which can be griefed by hand and destroyed with shovel
graves from flatstone -its even portable
sheep bones which decay and having 16 requires killing 16
pits unfixed which are fast to make, can be extended and rearanged
pits fixed which are same as stone wall (needs dedicated griefers) and doesnt cover
graves with letter which are same in every quality with a stone wall, with added benefit of not covering tiles and ability to hold items
explain why a wall of graves 1x16 is bad for you and a 4x4 is looking good when first can block out the animals, second just comes from the "We can fuck up more shovels and have more dead kids buried in smaller place" thinking
and for last, a deal: I make a pen of pits of a "P" shape, so you know its mine, you obviously can build fences around it and remove it, next time i reborn, i will personally plant one wheat and one berry bush for each fence

ye of little faith
Don't assume you know my game style or how good i am, When you assume you make and 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'.

I hate graves just as much as the next guy, I personally don't make graves and leave them to despawn.

All I am saying is that I would rather spend an extra 20 mins making a fence pen, then making a ugly arse pit pen, a day will come when he makes pits and grave passable, are you gonna complain then? He made fences for pens, he made pits for trash, stop meta gaming.
What difference does it really make, that you get sheep 20 mins later then normal, and what the hell is the fun in rushing out the content.
If a village cant survives one or two generation without sheep they shouldn't survive at all.

If you want to continue this convo PM me.

Back to the topic at hand.

trading in the current stage is the last thing on my mind, I know trading was fundamental to human success, but I would rather have Jasons time spent pushes the tech tree further.
I like the social experiment aspect of this game but when you only play for max an hour and there is this 3 hour ban, there is not much reason to set up the infrastructure for trading or personal housing in a town where the time you get back to it, its likely to be dead or completely changed.

Once Jason gives us a good reason to make houses we shall start making buildings, EG Forges only work inside buildings for example, or getting some sort of food buff when eating inside maybe on chairs and table (which only can be built in an enclosed room). Also sorting the griefing with buildings IE locks or being able to destroy stone walls.

As mentioned before a barter stand is the only way I see trading working out. I would happily use but would require planning and personal storage to store your traded good, EG if i buy a basket of pies, I need somewhere to put them so people don't eat them. plus you have this added problem of someone stealing the items you were making to trade of pies, imagine you been growing wheat or breeding sheep and someone snatches it. Guess you would really have to have professions in a major way.

Also, I wouldn't mind it if your surname was linked to the job you did the most, or at least let branches of the family change their surname. If I was born and my surname was "Smith" or "Miller" etc I feel more entitled to do that job, maybe that's just me tho.

Eve camps generally won't have jobs, I love the idea of "primitive camps" where they don't have jobs and everyone just does what they do now and just run around doing odd jobs and then having "Towns or cities" where trading is the way of life, would feel like progression.

Maybe the key thing making it easier to get that item the baker wants so you can get some food, and harder just to "single player" it and just farm berries.

ZneoC · 2018-06-10 10:27:58

YAHG wrote:

There is no enforcing any of this in game at all.
At least play on 2hol a little bit.
Griefer proof my ass

Nope, totally agree with you. No enforcement whats-so-ever.

Yeah actually I don't want to jump into this with out getting my toes wet, ya 'know? No rush.

I don't think you have to be worried about griefers wanting your ass. So you are okay there

I want everyone to know who doesn't already please notice the(ish). Existed pre-edits.
NO such thing with out nerfs "Greifer proof".

startafight wrote:

ive seen a lot of bakeries in my time and the problem with ur describing is 1. this: whats to stop people from just taking things?
2.thats already how people play this game and its real hard to teach ppl new things (we see this with each new update). its more likely that ppl will be like "oh sweet, a pie" and grab it. then what will the baker do? kill that person for not giving something in exchange?
3.this tradition wouldve had to be in place for a while to actually catch on, so when would it be implemented? 3rd gen? 6th gen? what happens when the population dies down because of the 3 hour family tree ban?
4.basically what im saying is that there is no system enforcing rules and that teaching rules takes foreveeeeeeer. even if a mother is designated as the baby teacher there are so many afk babies!
5.we would need *actual* currency and *actual* guards that dont go rouge and turn into murderers
6.and say someone actually gets the system going, whats the next generation going to gain from continuing this system? it doesnt provide any essential service and requires consolidation of power to a single institution (of baking)
7.keeping ppl fed is already a huge task without having to ration out food individually. and this kind of system would take a MASSIVE population to sustain
[to do some quick math:
8.you generally have 2-3 people working as smiths. to get knives and locks and keys to ensure this system is held up you would need them to cooperate
9.then you would have 2~ bakers. but in the current game ppl who r generally hanging around the oven just help out for pie baking sessions
10.then u would have lets say 3-4 farmers constantly watering and harvesting a patch. then with all the possibilities of crops lets say there are 3 fields (thats about the amount ive come across so far)
11.then u would need 1 person managing wheat supplies
12.and 3-5 people working as guards for each of the fields and bakeries and just general guarding
13.then u would need around 2 mothers for teaching and sustaining babies
14.and then ud have to have around 3-4 people doing building and bringing supplies around to make sure that everyones got what they need
15.so this would mean this system would require 16-21 people coordinating together]
16.(this is without rabbit trappers and far-distance gatherers) and tbh so far i think the most players ive ever had actually work with me was 5
17.this would only be able to work with absolutely no griefers and population drop offs.
18.i think itd be a cool concept in theory but rn the towns are too small and disorganized for this kind of system to be implemented and kept. there needs to be consolidation of power before rules are set in place. thats why people hoard weapons and lock chests
19.ik this sounds like im completely shooting down ur idea but i think it really is something interesting! it just requires a lot of work that ppl dont generally put into the game. maybe if the boots family was still around we couldve tested this...

1. Walls, locks, doors and carts, really.

2. Yet any one who plays the game has to rely on them to play the game as well. The ones that stick around actually enjoy the but don't want to play it our way. totally understandable. Many times things will end a different way then I want them to. I would just want to do it with like minded folks.

3.a.depends on players, locations, skills, dangers, mis-clicks. 3.b. Many successful and large civilization consolidated power to function, whether through government or culturally.3.Depending on which server that could be considered a success.
4.a. Yep.4.b.yep. they usually die. There will be casualties. Maybe less so if you can feed them.
5.a.What stop a generation from continuing ANY system? if they cant play, they sit and eat. And anyone who after walking around being shown how to do things, would just not continue it forth when older, then i guess that's life. perhaps it will impress enough people that that they will continue to do it. Who knows?
6.yep. currency is literally an object that everyone agrees has value. In this case, I would have to say that you can live life like a berry muncher, and just take care of your only food source for the next 60 minutes, OR, actually trade and be forced to help out with food production, or clothes or what ever you know how to do. No guards. Hopefully people understand that if someone wants to cucks you, they'll figure a way out. maybe get someone on the inside or whatever.
7.Yes its. I would definitely say it has many issues. My First ideas are a learning issue, and an organization issue, as well as an updates issue. Updates make things unstable, I mean imagine underwear being the new currency irl, right? weird. The learning issue gets resolved with time. The organization issue is simply there is no structure. A complex, organized structure rarely comes organically at random, so there needs to be a heavily preferred organization amongst large towns to have the biggest effect, which is natural. But throw into the equation that people are doing things to get that food money.
8.OK!
8a. OK.
8b. SO they know that much. Probably learned it from someone to taught Which doesnt sound too bad because, if you have them copy you, when you go out tree branch hunting, you get 2x as much. if they dont die ofc.
8c. Which no matter which civ this has to be constantly forced.
8d. Yeah, when they get old can find someone to train. A sit is now. It will happen a lot i am sure.
8e. Sure. These number will constantly change im sure.
8f. to do what? I would imagine that an item that is worth actual food would be worth to it to make a lot. Yeah there's communication, if there is a sale of 1 pie per wheat, that would encourage that system to meet that demand.
8g.Like any successful village.
8h. Yeah, and imagine just 5 productive people working ont eh same goal. If they could rope in more people it could get huge. who knows.
9.Have you seen this tried with the latest updates? Honestly, if any one knows tell me please.
10.Would they be bigger with organization...?
11.Don't worry all is good. And who knows, there could be.!

sorry all I got time for tonight!

ZneoC · 2018-06-10 21:47:23

Rebel wrote:

1.internal trading wont work, there is nothing stopping people from stealing your pies you made, unless you lock it, but people can still make keys and rob you AND what happens if you die collecting something away from town like water and you lose the key for your trainee, plus once there is more then a couple of "shops" people will have duplicate keys.
2.I love the idea, but in practice does not work. the best way to implement this is spreading your "shops" some distance apart where horse and carts are needed for transporting it, EG.
3.A Miller brings you flour for Pies
A shepherd brings you mutton for pies
4.You can then also trade pies for clothes, tools etc from other people.
5. HOWEVER. This will never happen.
1.a You will always have to have a eve camp where everyone shares and crafts things.
2.b you can't organize a town of this scale in one life
3.c in most cases, your trainnee will die or not understand whats going on.
4.d Buildings take a while to build, Also, Experts who know how to basket/box craft with one crafting tile only need small spaces to work HOWEVER the trainee may not be as good.
5.e Its risky business forcing people to trade for food, you will just get murdered by anyone who really needs the food or Thinks that the town is starving.
6. Again, cannot do this in one lifetime.
7. Town trading is nice, I have seen it happen multiple times when big towns get too populated and food gets low, people just grab a basket and run for the hills, some survive and make new villages later to trade with the big town.
8. its selfish and there is no reason to trade, You don't make a profit you have no skill set that someone else cant do, as soon as you say "yeah you cant have this unless you give me flour" they will just make their own pies with that flour. Specialization is key to commerce its econ 101, and there is no skill trees here.
9.Maybe we should focus on town trading. Food trading probs is a bad idea, each town should have its own food network, but there is no reason why a well-off town can trade food to another town for these items. however Tools or clothes, even people can be traded. I once bought a small girl with a cart of a full set of clothes as our village had no females.
10. Another point should be made that lives are short, unless roads are made to each town, then trading wont last long, also towns can change within a generation, One min there is a baker making carts of pies, but then the shepherd dies so no mutton then the baker dies and no one takes over..
11. If Jason Makes barter stands, would be a great idea EG You put a basket of pies on it and ask for a bowl of flour, I can see how this would be implemented and think it would work well.
EG, you cannot swap with the item on the stand unless you are swapping with the item it is asking for, would improve logistics. I personally would love it, but I don't know if it has its place here. we have keys so Jason must think there is a need for personal chests. this would give people a reason to use them apart from to hide tools from griefers.
12. I just know for a fact, that if trading was implemented, towns would die out fast or people would just not bother with it, Yes its easier to Trade flour for three pies but what happens when you start laking? no pies left at the store, fuck it ill make my own and give them out for free.
13. This game is NOT a CIV building game, it isn't and people who tell you otherwise clearly haven't played it enough, there is no way to translate your plans for a town through generations and EVERY town ends up being a mess until and pro player comes along decided to organise it, but that only lasts like 20 mins until the next gen is born.
14. Jesus that was a long post. XD sorry about the spelling error i cba to proof read.

1. It's a muliple people system, and if somewhere it is working right now, any1 making extra keys would be considered a greifer. Just like when people notice a file is being made in a large town. Good time for the trainee to hold onto the key. This is a practice of knowing when to let go, and watching the younger generation take over.

2. if communicating with people internally can't and won't work, then how does adding distance to the equation make it better?

3.this system should organically rise, or become stable after while, to meet demand for food.

4. trading rarely happens now with out any system. So I have heard / read.

5. If you are saying that: This community cannot work together, cannot teach, cannot enforce idea or rules, then to me, you are saying this game is doomed.

1.a. That's what we have now.
2.b. Nope. I agree. That's where cooperation and training is suppose to help.
3.c. Thank goodness for baby-makers, am I right? for a long time they will die, things will not work, but when it catches on, the hope is that it last longer than the 3 hr ban, like some towns have managed with out any system in place.
4.d. yes, yes, and training. There will be more than one space to work, if I told you to make a pie making building, and you make a 3x4 with one oven and one space to work with, you are fired.
5.e. the most secure individuals will not have to fight for food, and there is no weapons internally. Also, people internally can watch for sponges. Of which im sure the other players will happily find a way to dispel them from the building. When food supply is threatened, what happens? people kill, steal, and trade or kill then steal, then trade.

6. Yep. agreed.

7.So in a system that has failed it seems like trading can work when people are desperate, which is an interesting note.

8.The reason to trade is to eat and live. Use the knowledge you have learned, to actually be useful. If you got a back back, and earned 4 pies, you are golden to to whatever system you want to make until you need food again. If you see young adults berry sponging, you have a great opportunity to teach them a valuable skill so they can eat. Don't underestimate a half starving player.

9.No skill trees? I would like to say that the skill tree is the steps to produce something of value which you carry in the next life, IS your skill tree. Any successful town have an established food network. It happens naturally now.

10. assuming there is more than one town. Which would be possible if this system works.

11.barter stands that are fully enclosed to protect people from robbery and greifery? what would you implement if you were to code it?

12. yeah, and that would require you to make an oven, and bypass the system. Instead of WORKING with the community's system, and trying to help the town survive. That kind of behaviour happens naturally when some sort of system is unstable, or collapsing. I could imagine riots where no one want to work for food, and the people behind the stand just watch people scream till they die. INstead of just not feeding babies and watching them die.

13. how is it NOT a civ game? is it just a family making game? what are we doing here? farmville for ungrateful snots? YES! until a pro player comes in and shows how it is done.

14.Dont care, just know that now it is an even bigger post. hahaha.

ZneoC · 2018-06-10 21:48:25

startafight wrote:

ZneoC wrote:
I only have a 10 minute break, and I really want to address you ideas in a thorough response, but no time right now.
But after a quick read I understand the problemI absolutely agree with cooperation concerns.

Where is the best place so who are dedicated to testing ideas located? The forums.
When I play together with you, I would want to play with a team of equally invested people working on a goal. And I think that we can do this.
Briefers cannot just kill for food. I think horizontal crates allow for trade of objects w/ no little contact.
No weapons in interior means no internal killing.
Sorry gtg! Will respond later tonight.
if u manage to get enough ppl from the discord to join a private server itd be cool to try out. maybe check out the 2hol discord n ask about for ppl who r interested in participating in order to reduce the possibility of griefers n noobs

this is a great idea! I will add it into main post.

ZneoC · 2018-06-10 22:03:52

pein wrote:

the issues are:time and resources
1. i can imagine i could make it and have 10 min as a trader, more like a receptionist
2. stone walls are expensive, a big enough trash pit pen might work, they can dig you out but unlikely they put 19 items in one pit
3. aldough for trading, i can imagine graves! yes, you can ask for example for sheep food (berry bowl with carrot) as currency, have an enclosed room with a small airlock, inside sheep which you feed, tending some bushes, buildign around water well, upgraded, bucket
making compost, wheat, carrot can only made if you make a pen inside pen
you can ask for furs too, have enough thread
4. not liek a trader, more like a receptionist would work, people give you stuff, for safekeeping, collecting, you make wool and needle, clothes, ask for branches, sheep food, etc.
5. you put them together inside and reward people with it, you need knowledge of the biomes, what and where to get, work undisturbed amd help people who help you, i imagine not everybody would want to rob you, and send others for intstructions
6. you could swap by placing on grave, swap sides, take item, or them paying first
7. nursery is other idea, but if you make a pen like this, nursery needs only a fence, or a flatsone on a grave, so babies wont run out to suicide and would be kinda interesting for them to spawn into a small room, reusing wall parts possible so you could have multiple nurseries and females in them, raising kids, you would give free pies for moms, a basket with a sharp stone
8. you could ask back things like flint chip, sharp stone, anyone could ask to borrow a tool then give back(not sure what can be placed on a grave, maybe just basic items) but later you could have a second door and boxes with lid to do the same
9. so kinda receptionist/quest giver in a hotel like place
10. might need a life to set it up and hiding the key when get back

1. Yeah, show the ropes ya know.

2. it's a flawed wall system sure, but full stone walls is more of a fantasy, I think just eh corners would save you a little bit of time, and then you would have 15 mins as a trader XD

3. Oh, so youa re talking about a fully enclosed encampment? wow. uh... yeah sure we can try that!

4. "safe keeping" assuming they get it back .. or?

5. yes, there are still decent people who play I am sure, and some who are not.

6. can you give more detail, I want to know.

7. Yes, and with releasing kids when they are old enough and fed enough, maybe with some food for starters, and just give them the best start, I think they can grow to be useful adults/players. More nursery helps secure future generations from collapsing.

8. Yeah slowly build it up to look nice, right? is that what you are saying?

9. Yeah, kind of like when I saw how a monarchy took over, and PEOPLE ACTUALLY played like that, until it ended in murder.

10. yeah if of course there are no suitable takers in your opinion after playing for 45 mins or so.

thanks! I like these ideas, they seem practical!

ZneoC · 2018-06-10 22:13:34

YAHG wrote:

I still think that outside of a sheep pen there are no walls that help a city thrive at all. None.
They only get in the way when you are trying to go somewhere.

How many generations could have been saved by a wall from a bear/wolf attack?

YAHG · 2018-06-10 22:49:09

ZneoC wrote:

YAHG wrote:
I still think that outside of a sheep pen there are no walls that help a city thrive at all. None.
They only get in the way when you are trying to go somewhere.

How many generations could have been saved by a wall from a bear/wolf attack?

Wolves are a joke. Bears ONLY come when people poke the caves afaik.

MAYBE it could be useful if they were more dangerous but it is still cheaper to just kill them. Also the loot is nice at least
from the non bears.

I really like how you think it all out and respond thoughtfully but when I am reading you alot of the things you
are saying just don't make anysense ingame. You need to get in there, cause it gets ivory tower and you end up
talking out of your ass. It is a fun game, you will probably like it .

Making a forge a biome or two away to make your files in is pretty damn easy, just take a basket with one pie
one sharp rock and one round rock. The fresh swamp is FULL of adobe. People really don't have time to watch
everyone all the time anyways, towns are never really that rich.

What pien was saying about the nursery sounds pretty cool, using gravestones as the doors is genious as the
babies can't get free.

Personally though.. I prefer the term "Baby Jail" as it is FAR more hilarious to me .. Can even have a little warden
put them through the paces, make them stand on the good tile for food etc. little tutorial section. Having a town runner
just going about checking on town status to figure out what is needed so that the Warden(nurse) can give jobs to the
Inmates(babies) could be pretty useful.

It would be cool to see if the kind of authoritarian villages with centralized parenting would be more of less effective
than the current free range baby model..

ZneoC · 2018-06-10 22:57:05

Rebel wrote:

pein wrote:
Rebel wrote:
A.
1.Honestly Pein, stop encouraging this horrible idea of pit/graves walls, it's the ugliest shit I have ever seen. Fences are cheap, it's literally a little bit of gathering, its one more step over a pit
You still need a shovel, you still need to hit stakes with a hammer, why can't you just go collect some bloody branches for that sake of not making towns look like shit.
just because you cant be arsed to gather, don't punish the rest of us who like nice looking towns. plus pit pens take ages to fix up too, they are just the worst please stop.
2.on a side, note I like your idea oh a "bank" basically, but again would only really work on private servers.
3. As more tech Is added I am sure one day he will consider some sort of trading/banter mechanic that allows us to control our logistics, for now just be happy with Sauerkraut.
B.
4. pit grave looks 10 time better than a grave block, they look the fucking same as other graves, i dont know why you cant place it in four walls without corner, but you can place it in a 4x4 block, where you got no intention of putting a letter on it from center to edge, i dont know why cant you leave 1 tile between 2x2 graves, or place them as a wall around the city rather than filling a biome with noob kids bones and wasting a shovel on them
4 out 500 graves convinced me they never gonna be finished, also i seen soo many times they chuck down a grave in middle of the city, cause obviously, their mom was sooo good, that needs to block the way of everybody else
5. i know a lot of people annoyed by people like you and they might be less, but they make more work than you
6. you are the person who fucks up my 4th chisel without asking to make a stone room and lock out others, or who cries about a board i take, when i made all the tools for you to make it, or the one who makes a road before solving the food issue
7. i made out of fences, adobe bases, using ponds, wells, cactus, you know what? spend a life on making a 4x5 adobe room, when we had resources, 3 of us spent a lifetime making a 5 by 5 with a better than average spot where we had long shafts, still we had to go in 3 other biomes
8. problem is, you need carts to gather enough fences, which currently comes from ropes, which cant be made after you nulled the closest green biomes and milkweed farming only works after composting, and even if i make 3 carts, people feel entitled to take it instantly
9. fences dont look good either, vertical ones maybe, a player taking a fence rail dont look good either, even with his best intention takes it down and releases all the sheep, you can just start it over
so you need to place it diagonally, and looks like the crappiest thing ever, but i wouldnt place it differently cause it wont function
the other thing is griefers, they gonna ruin your nice fences just for the sake of it, or a kid gonna click the fence instead of the dung inside it, pits are harder to remove if fixed down, and people fix it down 90%
10. i generally dont drop anything on it so you can remove it, after building a normal fence around it, increasing its size, lot of people do it, stays in my topic, any attempts i seen ended up int o a triple walled pen with some fences, some pits, some stone, if its a way to grief it, they do it
i cant be arsed to spend a lifetime on something, people gonna ruin in 10 minutes
as you or others can be arsed to go gather for the city
you like nice looking town you didnt made maybe, cause that one step you talk about is a difference of 20+ minutes, so pretty obvious you dint made one yourself, and if you dont realize that a city is not a city without compost and why time is more important than looks, than you dont play this game properly. so yeah, when i make it gen 2, or when you dont make it under a lifetime, and others got no clue what to do with the branches, then dont cry about the look of it, i put it further every time
11. i make that, the shears, the spindle and the needles too, rather than make a 3x3 fence and die without a sheep, next 5 generation spends carrot farming with no compost, happens all the time
12. never seen a working fence pen which lasted too much, seeing tongs and short shafts made out of rails makes me want to leave the place, imagining people working hard just for someone to destroy it for good
13. also making roads by cutting the trees in the green biome is ugly, a city without trees is ugly, no ability make fire is deadly, so roads to me are ugly, leading into a graveyard with no function
14. containment is first
should be noob proof
should be grief proof
15. so far few things are blocking as far as i know (not sure on update)
a.15.a. adobe wall which decays
a.15.b. adobe base which is cheaper and decays
a.15.c. stone which wont decay but its expensive and slow, same as a fence as griefed by empty hand
a.15.d. fences which can be griefed by hand and destroyed with shovel
a.15.e. graves from flatstone -its even portable
a.15.f. sheep bones which decay and having 16 requires killing 16
a.15.g. pits unfixed which are fast to make, can be extended and rearanged
a.15.h. pits fixed which are same as stone wall (needs dedicated griefers) and doesnt cover
a.15.i. graves with letter which are same in every quality with a stone wall, with added benefit of not covering tiles and ability to hold items
16. explain why a wall of graves 1x16 is bad for you and a 4x4 is looking good when first can block out the animals, second just comes from the "We can fuck up more shovels and have more dead kids buried in smaller place" thinking
17. and for last, a deal: I make a pen of pits of a "P" shape, so you know its mine, you obviously can build fences around it and remove it, next time i reborn, i will personally plant one wheat and one berry bush for each fence
C.
18. ye of little faith
Don't assume you know my game style or how good i am, When you assume you make and 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'.
19. I hate graves just as much as the next guy, I personally don't make graves and leave them to despawn.
20. All I am saying is that I would rather spend an extra 20 mins making a fence pen, then making a ugly arse pit pen, a day will come when he makes pits and grave passable, are you gonna complain then? He made fences for pens, he made pits for trash, stop meta gaming.
What difference does it really make, that you get sheep 20 mins later then normal, and what the hell is the fun in rushing out the content.
If a village cant survives one or two generation without sheep they shouldn't survive at all.
21. If you want to continue this convo PM me.

22. Back to the topic at hand.
23. trading in the current stage is the last thing on my mind, I know trading was fundamental to human success, but I would rather have Jasons time spent pushes the tech tree further.
I like the social experiment aspect of this game but when you only play for max an hour and there is this 3 hour ban, there is not much reason to set up the infrastructure for trading or personal housing in a town where the time you get back to it, its likely to be dead or completely changed.
24. Once Jason gives us a good reason to make houses we shall start making buildings, EG Forges only work inside buildings for example, or getting some sort of food buff when eating inside maybe on chairs and table (which only can be built in an enclosed room). Also sorting the griefing with buildings IE locks or being able to destroy stone walls.
26. As mentioned before a barter stand is the only way I see trading working out. I would happily use but would require planning and personal storage to store your traded good, EG if i buy a basket of pies, I need somewhere to put them so people don't eat them. plus you have this added problem of someone stealing the items you were making to trade of pies, imagine you been growing wheat or breeding sheep and someone snatches it. Guess you would really have to have professions in a major way.
27. Also, I wouldn't mind it if your surname was linked to the job you did the most, or at least let branches of the family change their surname. If I was born and my surname was "Smith" or "Miller" etc I feel more entitled to do that job, maybe that's just me tho.
28. Eve camps generally won't have jobs, I love the idea of "primitive camps" where they don't have jobs and everyone just does what they do now and just run around doing odd jobs and then having "Towns or cities" where trading is the way of life, would feel like progression.
29. Maybe the key thing making it easier to get that item the baker wants so you can get some food, and harder just to "single player" it and just farm berries.

(Oh man, this is going to need 2 monitors lol.

A.1. I could imagine a situation where there is a perfectly good vic that was started, but it needs a sheep pen. Ok, so go gather straight branches? Well.. new players tend to remove branches or chop trees down, which could make a simple resource distance intensive. Pits have there place as an emergency pen for sure. Any survivalist who doesn't use the tools and knowledge at their disposal to survive, makes other's chance at survivability really low. Especially since the other players prefer aesthetics over eating.

2.Yeah, but saving is what people do when there are spare resources they don't mind not having access too.... which is the opposite problem we have now.

3.Ill trade you a sauerkraut for 4 red cabbages, 2 if you bring me the pot back.

B.4. minor inconveniences of daily life. I hate it when on my way to the store, some fucking noob decided to turn the side walk into a personal mortuary. The fucking nerve of people... right?

5.imagine if they dont get good food unti they do work hard fer it.

6.yeah the scarcity problem making a nice aesthetically pleasing town hard to accomplish, expecially in one town. Unless you leave equally detirmined offspring to carry the torch, that fence isn't getting done. And if by some miracle a skilled player arrives, they MIGHT finish it. MIGHT. with pits. Because someone as a survivalist who prefers functionality over aesthetics because of lack of resources, uses their ingenuity to solve a problem. If the resources were plentiful enough to always warrant a fence, then there would almost always be fences. Right?

7.yep.

8. or steal it for resources which are lacking.

9. it is possible to return to a lineage. When you do return, you would want it to still be usable or be able to rebuld it in less than one lifetime.

10. training, with no system in place other then: "Heres your new life, get to work do w/e"

11. yeah, for any reason really.

12. YUP. resources. the resources to amke the roads and walls make it harder to make fences, which are secondary, and fire, which is primary.

13.^

14. which is it? containment > noob proof > greif-proof? or conatainment < noob-proof < greif proof or make it containable and noob proof == greifproof?

15.a. ok.
b. yes.
c. ^
d. just corners are good enough, then later gen can update.
e.^
f. resuable / replenishable mats are practically gold.
g. so baby bones, got it.
h. awesome.
i. so multiple applications? that sounds beneficial.

16. shovels are replaceable, hard work is not.

17. sounds fair.

C.
18. we all assume here. That's why its better to make a concise point and stick with it imo.

19. OK, that's your play style. I can dig it.

20. I would think that just like in life, everything is temporary. So when the day comes, players will just have to do what humans do, adapt. But we agree on the importance of sheep getting started. The question is whether aesthetics are possible, AND more important than a quick solution. each has their benefits. Depends on the situation, resources, player style, and time.

21. not extended to me, but I would love for it to be bought out into the public, because if it is really an issue, I believe logic and compromise can produce a solution to the underlying problem, what ever it may be.

22. I want to make it CLEAR: This idea so far does NOT require jason to build new mechanics, or waste time in our squabble. let us the peasants fight it out.

23. What you are asking is small tweaks to make home life, more homey. which isnt really back to the topic tbh. but I like the idea, it is good. But also, I am trying to find a use for walls and doors. SO let US give them a use.

24. The idea of a fully encompassed enclosure is the only way to ensure that someone building a profession doesn't have the profession's equipment and supplies stolen. Which would need walls, doors, locks, and storage. we have that. If the miller bought enough food that they could carry to trade to a carpenter/stone mason, they now have a proffesion's house. Then they could store supplies.

25. well when you are a kid in the nursey and you want a profession, ask!

26. yes, I totally agree, and I think it is more of a training issue, rather than a mechanical issue.

27.that is the idea! you got it! a peson just has to gather resources, drop em off, get their worth in food, and go do w/e they want! rather than drop it off and have some undeserving little snot make a bag out of your furs! You could have the baker hold it, or trade a bowl of gooseberries for thread and the last bit of fur for a backpack? YOU EARNED THAT BACK PACK!

ZneoC · 2018-06-10 23:00:03

last post until I get more responses:

1. Don't let perfection be the enemy of progress.
2. Try and keep "Jason needs to code this or that" out of the equation, because we have the tools needed to try it now, or in the near future.
3. nothing is griefer proof.
4. Training is a major aspect of any game of this type.
5. COOPERATION. 'nuff said.

6. Let's talk about it!

Last edited by ZneoC (2018-06-10 23:00:30)

pein · 2018-06-11 00:09:46

ZneoC wrote:

6. you could swap by placing on grave, swap sides, take item, or them paying first
6. can you give more detail, I want to know.
8. Yeah slowly build it up to look nice, right? is that what you are saying?
thanks! I like these ideas, they seem practical!

a grave allows to place a rose on it, but not just a rose, sheep meat, straws, furs, etc
you can take it from both sides, the flat stone will fly away, but if you fix it with letters, then you can place item on it, then take it

now imagine you got a stone wall, a fully enclosed room ,which is yours, your key, your door, and 1 grave on bottom acting as a wall, one on top, you ask for a fur, to give a pie

the customer comes to the bottom puts down the fur, you go to the top, put down a pie
you both swap sides, he goes to top, takes the pie from the grave trough wall, as the grave is a wall
you take the fur
an exchange happens, with the safety of you staying inside a wall, he staying outside
so nobody steals the stock, thats why i said the center of this buiding should be a well, so you can stay alive inside all your life, combine items you ask for, give out items for people you trade with

you can extend the building later, your main goal is to make it small, and functioning, maybe pit pens, 2 graves, a door, i can do it in less than 30 min? maybe
but not sure what items can be placed on a grave, a shovel wont? a basket wont? then is limited to that, so you cant transfer soil, baskets, multiple seeds
of course when you already trade items, you got a way to extend, you can make a new room, where you place a box with lid as a wall, now everything else than sheep dung and a cart? can go inside it
you can have a second door with different key, you can have a room to forge

i can imagine i can live inside a 25x25 building all my life doing trades of this kind, cause people save me walking time, i got a benefit of having private property, things in order, i can eat, make berry bowls, water crops, nobody will touch it
after initial borrow of tools, its also fair, cause you dont use city resources, you make your own
and is convenient for people
a trusted trader will give me a backpack for a basket of iron? maybe i get iron, not thread and furs
i dont know where is the needle? ask the trader

its not about the value you get, maybe you lose profit by giving free food, free needle and thread
maybe you lose stock over time, its about teaching people that hard work gets rewarded, cooperation is possible, there are people who can be trusted, and your small glass jar can keep itself up, while people outside can have their usual life
also would teach them that you got all that stuff in one single life, what can be made alone, what others do for you, and you take it for granted having access to it in a normal life

ofc people will be enraged that you got stuff inside a room, and gonna try to block you inside, gonna try to get inside, gonna ask for free stuff, abuse you verbally
but as long as you did all that stuff inside, they got no base for accusations

lets say we got a good city, as kid i gonna make myself a pack, make a room, i need compost, wheat and a working pen, i take the sheep inside my room, do a full composting process inside, make small carrot room, build a hotel room, where people can come, stay inside a room (maybe a 3x3 room, which cant be closed) i serve you food daily, you pay rent by whatever you got, a wodden log, a thread, i use it to craft more stuff inside, extend hotel, i take an apprentice, an abandoned kid, teach him the hotel rules, we do it together, one of us extends hotel, other serves customers, roleplay the shit out of it
the city can be like 50 tiles away, they dont depend on you, you dont depend on them, you produce for them but with the rule of asking anything in return, i can do it maybe, i gonna try anyway

YAHG · 2018-06-11 01:14:08

I think the stuff about somehow having personal property in the game would be wonderful..

I don't see why the people on the outside of the building even need the guy in the middle, they can just make an oven on the outside. Or they can just wait you out and you will die without inputs.

A sealed city around some wells does sound cool, but I am not sure how this is functionally different than it is now other than you can't get iron etc on your own.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-06-10 02:29:32

The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

#2 2018-06-10 02:47:14

Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

#3 2018-06-10 02:52:45

Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

#19 2018-06-10 22:03:52

Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

#20 2018-06-10 22:13:34

Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

#21 2018-06-10 22:49:09

Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

#22 2018-06-10 22:57:05

Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

#23 2018-06-10 23:00:03

Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

#24 2018-06-11 00:09:46

Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

#25 2018-06-11 01:14:08

Re: The enclosed bakery/shop/nursery social/civ experiment!

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