Possible way to deal with the murders?

Stripes251 · 2018-06-11 05:39:49

So to be fair murder isn't that common so far I have only seen one mass murderer about of all my lives (and then of course I joined in because why not). I know not everyone is happy about that as I see it there are two groups. There are the people who don't want murder and the people who don't mind it.

As you could imagine I don't mind it and wouldn't mind mechanics that favor it under certain circumstances, but for the people who don't should we have a separate server so they don't have to deal with us who want PVP?

Last edited by Stripes251 (2018-06-11 05:42:44)

sc0rp · 2018-06-11 09:47:46

That would actually make matters worse. Murder is just extreme version of griefing. If you just disable killing completely, you're still vulnerable to myriad ways of griefing, but now have no recourse whatsoever.

TrustyWay · 2018-06-11 11:40:04

Yeah, removing/nerfing murderer would just make griefing even more used.

It is like way way worst than killing.

If they don't like murderers they can go to 2hol

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-06-11 11:40:48)

Rose · 2018-06-11 11:49:33

Murder IS the biggest problem in OHOL. This is why only 38 people is playing now.
If nothing will be done the game itself will be killed by all those knives.
.

TrustyWay · 2018-06-11 12:11:22

It is not murderers that killed the game, we all know that.

Rose, you might look at jason's data on murders, there are less and less murders, and the rate is pretty low. The real things that made 300 or more people left the game at the same time aren't murderers, but updates.

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-06-11 12:12:16)

YAHG · 2018-06-11 12:18:47

TrustyWay wrote:

It is not murderers that killed the game, we all know that.
Rose, you might look at jason's data on murders, there are less and less murders, and the rate is pretty low. The real things that made 300 or more people left the game at the same time aren't murderers, but updates.

I think the correlation was with apocalypse and then decay. I am sure the numbers exist somewhere.

Remember that this is AFTER death screams and killer slowing and bloody everything. Back before, it was like any
other item. It isn't causal but when murdering was easier there was also more people.

sc0rp · 2018-06-11 12:22:10

Rose wrote:

Murder IS the biggest problem in OHOL. This is why only 38 people is playing now.
If nothing will be done the game itself will be killed by all those knives.

I kind of agree with that. That's why I proposed karma based system to weed out griefers:
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … p=2#p16279
or actually find usefull roles for them:
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … p=2#p16290

There are a lot of people on this forum that are against this proposal, though. And I'm not surprised. People here are either griefers themselves or people that know how to deal with griefers effectively. So it's a bad place to run a poll.

I think evironment is extremly hostile to new players. Like I had a few days in a row when out of 4 first games I had to deal with griefers in 2-3 (e.g. 2 games directly mass murder, third born to mom fleeing from town with mass murder). And then eternal Eve or abandoned child of Eve. Fortunately it didn't happen to me when I started playing. But somebody getting this "expierience" on one of first days, will stop playing and never come back.

But that's Jason's job to do something about it. As long as it's more fulfilling for greifers to kill you own relatives, than go for a raid, things won't improve.

Rose · 2018-06-11 12:37:34

Most common ways of griefing
1 - killing all fertile women
2 - killing everybody
3 - cut all trees

If the killing would be impossible and we could put griefer on lasso like a horse and regrow trees griefers wouldnt be such a big problem.

Rose · 2018-06-11 12:49:59

Its not 300 people that left the game but more then a 1000.

sc0rp · 2018-06-11 12:53:39

Rose wrote:

Its not 300 people that left the game but more then a 1000.

Must be more than that. I've seen in some Jason's post that 14000 people bought the game. I usually see only 50 actively playing at any given time. It peaks to ~100 just after weekly update.

Rose · 2018-06-11 13:05:12

Jason promised us a game of parenting and building - 14000 people bought the game.

It turned into starving kids and murdering simulation - 50 people is playing.

Do you still think that murder is not a big problem in OHOL?

Stankysteve · 2018-06-11 13:10:33

Because the game has a steeply growing learning curve.
-It getting harder and harder for new players to figure out what to do in a world of increasingly complex recipes.
-Its getting harder to teach because the expanding, growing, recipes are giving other experienced players little free time to talk and teach
-Most pro players don't talk socially much anyways, they're just dedicated worker bees. And they get tired of working for newer players who do not know how to return the effort because they have not been taught properly.
-New players who live in a developed camp who do not know how to contribute, yet find themselves surrounded by foods in excess (pie and stew for days) they are far more likely to pick up a weapon out of boredom.

You're right jason, without a struggle for survival, people turn on eachother. The problem is the "struggle" is not a struggle for pro players. Its a herculean effort for new players though, to the point that it's becomming a wall. 14,000 people have become a couple hundred because 13,800 don't like wiki-diving and wasting time scrolling through a 31 option menu with tab ingame to see their crafting options. This game is becoming more and more niche. The murderers who love to murder will get bored and move on to another game. The new players who want to learn will get frustrated and move on to another game. And then just the fifty of us who spent many hours and many lifetimes teaching ourselves how to play will be lonely and bored and move on to another game.

P.S. Murder is the least extreme form of griefing. It's obvious, it cripples you to do (slow movement no eating), and vengance often comes. There are so many far more evil devious long-term harmful ways to harm a society then picking a couple people off a generation.

Rose · 2018-06-11 13:28:31

1. It is much easier for new players to start than it was before.
2. I am not tired of working for new players or teaching them. I do not talk to them ( not all speak eng.) but SHOW them how to make things.
3. I am tired of pl who waste my time when i must take care of them while they are kids than they eats our food and in the end they start killing people in the
town.

sc0rp · 2018-06-11 13:36:58

Stankysteve wrote:

P.S. Murder is the least extreme form of griefing. It's obvious, it cripples you to do (slow movement no eating), and vengance often comes. There are so many far more evil devious long-term harmful ways to harm a society then picking a couple people off a generation.

It eradicates whole lineages (it's doesn't matter that 10 gens defended against greifer, 11h did not and everything built by all gens is lost). Griefers can fail dozens of time. It's enough that they succeed once, to wipe out everything.

eradicated lineages => no nice towns
no nice towns => no place for new player to learn stuff (It's too hectict to teach in first few gens. And as Eve you can learn only so much.)

pein · 2018-06-11 15:49:44

based on the player skill i would be interested how that data is calculated

murder would be 50%+ in towns with a weapon, you need a bow for sheep and file
then people use it on people, all in my games
i try to advance each civilization to compost, in max 2 hours we got murderers every time
so if you run in forest bush to bush you wont kill anyone, i imagine thats what 80% of people do, making their noob camp and wasting others time, then some of us makes a working camp and the lazy asses who cant feed themselves murder others cause they steal your bow/knife

Stankysteve · 2018-06-11 16:03:18

sc0rp wrote:

Stankysteve wrote:
P.S. Murder is the least extreme form of griefing. It's obvious, it cripples you to do (slow movement no eating), and vengance often comes. There are so many far more evil devious long-term harmful ways to harm a society then picking a couple people off a generation.
It eradicates whole lineages (it's doesn't matter that 10 gens defended against greifer, 11h did not and everything built by all gens is lost). Griefers can fail dozens of time. It's enough that they succeed once, to wipe out everything.
eradicated lineages => no nice towns
no nice towns => no place for new player to learn stuff (It's too hectict to teach in first few gens. And as Eve you can learn only so much.)

You know how murder deaths make up like 3% of deaths? Murderers who kill an entire lineage are even rarer. It so easy to escape a murderer. As soon as you see a weapon come out in a crowded place in town, just run. Its not hard to forage for a few years, or live in a branch camp from a larger settlement.

You know what's far worse? Putting wheat or squash in every tilled row. Murdering every sheep. Destroying sheep pens. Picking all the berries to burn through a towns dirt and water. Let beans and carrots all seed. Hell if it a big town you can cripple pie production by stealing one of precious few branches left for wheat threshing. Hide the waterskins. Bury every bone you see. Fill an entire town with milkweed or corn seeds. Run carts full of baskets to hidden places. It's really not hard to ruin a society (which I hate, even the innocent mess up a ton of stuff through ignorance!)

Killing someone is the least form of grieving. Even if you snuff out a lineage, "salting the earth", squandering resources leftover, and making it uninhabitable for anyone who comes after is a far deadlier form of griefing. Why aim for a couple females when you can cripple an entire civ and anyone and everyone who comes to it after, family or not?

EDIT: I'm begging to think this society "simulator" is failing its simulation.

Last edited by Stankysteve (2018-06-11 16:18:41)

annjust · 2018-06-11 16:21:30

Rose wrote:

Murder IS the biggest problem in OHOL. This is why only 38 people is playing now.
If nothing will be done the game itself will be killed by all those knives.
.

Rose how can I know how many People Play the game now? (you siad 38?)

Rose · 2018-06-11 16:23:36

http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report

from hiere

sc0rp · 2018-06-11 16:29:13

Stankysteve wrote:

EDIT: I'm begging to think this society "simulator" is failing its simulation.

Yep. There is reincarnation. There isn't any karma that goes with you. Griefers can grief every game, all day long, every day. And each time they get carte blanche.

forestglade · 2018-06-11 17:04:12

Griefers have to stop. If Jason want this game to grow past the tiny population it has, the murders have to be harder.

Rose · 2018-06-11 17:09:10

If Jason want this game to grow past the tiny population....

Yes.

Does he wants?

Lotus · 2018-06-11 17:26:20

The solution to murder in big towns is to have more weapons.

Having one to four knives is a danger, as the murderer could easily stash them all in their backpack or hide them without drawing attention. But someone’s gonna notice if someone’s repeatedly running back and fourth with tons of knives.

The same applies with arrows. Although you aren’t deemed suspicious when holding an arrow without a bow, a town should have multiple bows and arrows as a murderer can only carry five arrows and one bow at a time with a backpack.

Increasing the murderer’s “punishment” or slowdown would also be helpful. As discussed in previous threads, I think it’s a good idea to give them an inverted chat bubble (white text on black) for a while to distinguish them, similarly to victims having red chat bubbles.

subria · 2018-06-11 17:31:02

I very tired because murders. Stop that. Or make some way to fight them. Murders can be killed by axe, bounce, fire, anything... Why i play a peace game but i always meet murders? In other game (PUGB, fornite,..) we kill others but fair. No fair in OHOL. NO FAIR.

sc0rp · 2018-06-11 17:31:39

Stankysteve wrote:

You know how murder deaths make up like 3% of deaths?

2% - 6%. But that's bullshit statistics. Example: I have griefer in early camp 2nd/3rd gen. He kills 2 people with a bow. I steal arrow, go make bow, eat full and go back temp walking with armed bow. He runs with a armed bow too, but starves first. In the meantime one kid of shot women died, another one starved running away. Number of people in murder stats: 2. Number of dead people: 5. Or another example: griefer lures in a bear and shots running people in the back. Most are murdered by a proxy or starved. Obviously not included in statistics.

Stankysteve wrote:

Murderers who kill an entire lineage are even rarer.

Care to share source? What I usually see in longer lines on lineage is mass murderer in 2nd to 3rd last gen. (He doesn't have to kill everybody himself to wipe out the lineage, you know.)

Stankysteve wrote:

It so easy to escape a murderer. As soon as you see a weapon come out in a crowded place in town, just run. Its not hard to forage for a few years, or live in a branch camp from a larger settlement.

I have enough foraging as an Eve. What's the point anyway? Run 50% time I'm born in the town? The whole civ must collapse because one guy stumbled upon a knife?

Stankysteve wrote:

You know what's far worse? Putting wheat or squash in every tilled row. Murdering every sheep. Destroying sheep pens. Picking all the berries to burn through a towns dirt and water. Let beans and carrots all seed. Hell if it a big town you can cripple pie production by stealing one of precious few branches left for wheat threshing. Hide the waterskins. Bury every bone you see. Fill an entire town with milkweed or corn seeds. Run carts full of baskets to hidden places. It's really not hard to ruin a society (which I hate, even the innocent mess up a ton of stuff through ignorance!)

Report to somebody with bow/knife if spotted. The problem is usually solved soon.

sc0rp · 2018-06-11 17:35:30

subria wrote:

I very tired because murders. Stop that. Or make some way to fight them. Murders can be killed by axe, bounce, fire, anything... Why i play a peace game but i always meet murders? In other game (PUGB, fornite,..) we kill others but fair. No fair in OHOL. NO FAIR.

+1
A crowd with axes, hoes, hatches, stones and fists should just ROLFstomp one guy with a knife. Even tiny damage with each of those items with long cool down would dispatch griefer instantly. Allow people to lynch.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-06-11 17:39:32)

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#1 2018-06-11 05:39:49

Possible way to deal with the murders?

#2 2018-06-11 09:47:46

Re: Possible way to deal with the murders?

#3 2018-06-11 11:40:04

Re: Possible way to deal with the murders?

#4 2018-06-11 11:49:33

Re: Possible way to deal with the murders?

#5 2018-06-11 12:11:22

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#8 2018-06-11 12:37:34

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#10 2018-06-11 12:53:39

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#11 2018-06-11 13:05:12

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#12 2018-06-11 13:10:33

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#14 2018-06-11 13:36:58

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