Jason! I'll tell you the only way to stop the murder!

xxx90x · 2018-06-12 02:09:34

The only way to stop the murder is to provide more weapons. If the weapon is evenly distributed to everyone, it can not kill other people. Because if you commit murder, you will soon die and be careful. If everyone has a weapon, people will be kind to others. Because if you are rude, you risk being attacked.
You can improve your game by restraining the pranksters through the conversion of ideas, the kinds of weapons
Trust me, Jason.. I love you.

Anshin · 2018-06-12 02:19:57

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCtD3OJ-_Es

But seriously...

How about no PvP weapons at all, but people could punch each other. Give each other some bruises, look all bashed up, but no one actually dies.

Or, keep the PvP but both victim and murderer die at the same time. If murder has to happen, at least the rest of us don't suffer.

Last edited by Anshin (2018-06-12 02:34:48)

ZneoC · 2018-06-12 03:07:26

I thought it was a great idea, except the burth rate far out exceeds the ability to source enough iron, let alone the fact that the first knife that touches the ground will kill somebody.

Lotus · 2018-06-12 03:51:34

Unified death! Yesss!

This would limit murderers and allow the community to sacrifice one if there was a griefer. This is a really good idea. +1

Hope this can be incorporated IG

(@Anshin)

LHO · 2018-06-12 04:24:30

xxx90x wrote:

The only way to stop the murder is to provide more weapons. If the weapon is evenly distributed to everyone, it can not kill other people. Because if you commit murder, you will soon die and be careful. If everyone has a weapon, people will be kind to others. Because if you are rude, you risk being attacked.
You can improve your game by restraining the pranksters through the conversion of ideas, the kinds of weapons
Trust me, Jason.. I love you.

389247

annjust · 2018-06-12 04:59:22

But WHY we stop it?
If the game aims at realworld Simulation, I think we should let everythings going as people want to do, even murder do the things they like to do. In real world we also have the freedom to kill someone, with knife or anything. We will be punished, laws and the policeoffice, but that's another topic.
No Problem there, we also can kill the murder as well.

YAHG · 2018-06-12 05:55:03

I think people don't want to deal with it. When we took over a multi family camp so it would be all ours people just mope and bitch.

Most of the people ran off and hid. There were weapon caches in the woods that
we found later but NO ONE even tried to contest us. They just tried to hang out
near the main knife guy to prevent him from eating (he had no pack). There was
one other guy who tried to steal one of our packs when we had to transfer it from
an old person, but he ran off when we covered our ally with a knife.

Maybe the weapons are just too difficult to make so people can't really arm themselves
well enough to put up a fight. Then again maybe they just run away. We only killed like
5-6 about 10+ people got away. I assume they starved in the wilds.

ZneoC · 2018-06-12 05:59:35

annjust wrote:

But WHY we stop it?
If the game aims at realworld Simulation, I think we should let everythings going as people want to do, even murder do the things they like to do. In real world we also have the freedom to kill someone, with knife or anything. We will be punished, laws and the policeoffice, but that's another topic.
No Problem there, we also can kill the murder as well.

In real life you also have consequences.

I mean, it almost seems psychotic to say that if there were no consequences for killing people irl they would do it.

in real life:
There is loss of property.
Loss of freedom.
loss of empathy from other people.
loss of being employable to any one, ever.
loss of feeling secure.
loss of being a stable human being(Unable to pull nam eout of mud so to speak)

No one ever believes you are telling the truth, no one wants to know you ...

in this game there is none of that.

So if you WANT it to be like real life, then I assume you are all for: "Lynches (which do happen), Jailtime (possibility), disrespect from fellow players, banishment from communities, and I can look up other things that have happened in real-life to murderers if you really want to simulate what happens when someone ends the life of another.

People are trying to find ways to make the people who know there are no consequences, think twice before just slaughtering someone. That's it.

kill all you want, how ever you want, but when there are consequences, people will weigh them and decide if it's worth it.

In reality, what happens in the game isn't that big of a deal. But I am sure you must be feeling the pressure people are applying for anti-grief measures, not because it's wrong, but because it's EASY. No Challenge.

And that is why sometimes people kill in irl. Because killing is easier then actually playing the game of life(there's self defense, and what not but w/e).

I am even going to go further on this matter, because it's something that needs to be pointed out.

Murderers are noobs. Creative noobs. It is easier to ruin something nice, than it is to actually learn to play the game as it was designed. That not only means that serial killers are not only lazy, they are also stupid.

JackTreehorn · 2018-06-12 06:32:56

The simplest thing would be to have knives break after three uses on human players and remain stuck in the body until death and the loss of the arrow when it hits a human player.

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2018-06-12 06:35:45)

Glassius · 2018-06-12 06:46:11

Slowing down murderer, breaking weapons, weapons stucked in the victim, simultaneous deaths... They are all fake solutions. IRL we have serious consequences, in game there is only death, not a big deal. Therefore, countering griefers must base on punishment even aftet death. Karma system

LHO · 2018-06-12 06:56:00

If it were up to me we'd have some kind of reputation system.

Alleria · 2018-06-12 09:05:15

The game has most of that already. The only thing from your list that I haven't seen is people being locked up. The simplest solution to not being murdered is literally just to "git gud".

Rose · 2018-06-12 09:16:04

You cant kill duck by knife but you can kill a player...

Glassius · 2018-06-12 10:39:59

More funny is, you can't kill a snake with shaft, you need a knife. IRL almost the opposite, as an stabbing attemp on snake would result with bite.

But I guess, blunt on snake will never be introduced, only for gameplay reasons

Last edited by Glassius (2018-06-12 10:49:45)

Tane · 2018-06-12 10:43:42

Alleria wrote:

The game has most of that already. The only thing from your list that I haven't seen is people being locked up. The simplest solution to not being murdered is literally just to "git gud".

Someone asked last week about the uses of the lasso. I reckon it would be a good idea to have it so you can lasso someone and they couldn't log out or respawn until the time limit is up. Gives time to decide if to kill the greifer or to lock them up somewhere. It would give another reason to have them near and a reason to start making rooms and even maybe jaildoors.

TrustyWay · 2018-06-12 12:10:48

We suggested iron handcuffes or anything such as lassos to capture griefers and killers thousand times...

This is really needed to slow down some dudes that play only the kill

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-06-12 12:11:21)

Lum · 2018-06-12 13:06:08

Worked out well for the USA.

Baker · 2018-06-12 13:19:36

Lum wrote:

Worked out well for the USA.

Civs that give everyone knives have the same result as americants gun laws. Frequent murders yet some people still think it's a good idea because someone forged tons of knives and said everyone could have them 300 years prior.

Anshin · 2018-06-12 13:52:47

Ugh, I built a sheep pen, then one idiot uses the knife and bow and arrow to murder the whole town instead of hunt mouflon and bring back lamb.

Anshin wrote:

How about no PvP weapons at all, but people could punch each other. Give each other some bruises, look all bashed up, but no one actually dies.
Or, keep the PvP but both victim and murderer die at the same time. If murder has to happen, at least the rest of us don't suffer.

I quote myself, because these are the simplest solutions.

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-12 21:02:52

Dual murder is interesting...

I just wonder how it would hinder the enforcement of village laws.

Like, if the village decides that some griefer needs to die, who is going to be the one sacrificed in order to do it? Some elder, I guess? So the old people of the village become the executioners?

Karma system sounds easy, but it will hurt the good guys as well as the bad. And it's hard to make an automated karma system for anything beyond killing. There are loads of other bad behaviors that wouldn't affect karma. Planting the wrong crops, stealing, etc.

So let's say we have karma for murder (easy enough). And you see someone messing up the village farm. You tell them to stop, but they won't stop. Others tell them too, but no. You threaten them, but no. So now what?

You SHOULD be able to kill them at this point.

But if you do so, you will get negative karma. And you're the good guy.

This topic keeps coming up, and we keep going round and round about it. I don't think there's an easy solution here.

The simplest thing, at this point, would be to make killing even harder. The weapon stuck in your hand for even longer, making you even slower. Maybe so long that someone must feed you so that you can survive. Killin' is hungry work. The murder victim given even more time to call for help before dying.

I mean, I can keep pushing that lever as far as we want to push it.

aowen · 2018-06-12 21:48:37

jasonrohrer wrote:

Karma system sounds easy, but it will hurt the good guys as well as the bad. And it's hard to make an automated karma system for anything beyond killing.

I agree that an automated karma system is unfeasible.

What about a karma system where other players decide what's good and bad behavior?
Some sort of "majority rules" system, where if enough people indicated "that was bad", it actually translates to something other player's can observe.

This is a basic concept that's been echoed by a few people here.
I'll give feedback on suggested implementations, there are at least a dozen ways to do the above.

jasonrohrer wrote:

The simplest thing, at this point, would be to make killing even harder. The weapon stuck in your hand for even longer, making you even slower. Maybe so long that someone must feed you so that you can survive. Killin' is hungry work. The murder victim given even more time to call for help before dying.
I mean, I can keep pushing that lever as far as we want to push it.

You may want to set up a private schedule for yourself to tweak these things, and examine how it turned out.

For example,
Week 1: weapon stuck in hand longer
Week 2: murder victim given more time
Week 3: murderer walks even slower

The goal is to discourage "murder for murder's sake", right?
With the weekly update schedule, you're in a good position to tweak these things, see what happens, collect feedback, and make more decisions based off that.

Last edited by aowen (2018-06-12 21:50:52)

sc0rp · 2018-06-12 21:53:14

jasonrohrer wrote:

Dual murder is interesting...
I just wonder how it would hinder the enforcement of village laws.
Like, if the village decides that some griefer needs to die, who is going to be the one sacrificed in order to do it? Some elder, I guess? So the old people of the village become the executioners?

As an old person you are more likely to starve than kill somebody. So it probably won't work. Also giving a knife to some random schmoe can aggravate situation instead of solving it. And anyway it doesn't solve real problem. That's not a penalty for griefer. He will just be teleported to grief some new village. Most likely together with executioner. Actually it's probably the reason I get griefer 2-3 times in a row. I meet him once. Either I deal with him or he with me. We get then respawned in next biggest town within 15 minutes and unknowingly meet each other there. Finally I get spawned as Eve and don't meet him or he suicides seeing Eve that didn't even set up a camp yet. I see him again few hours later, when lineage ban in towns expires for both of us.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Karma system sounds easy, but it will hurt the good guys as well as the bad.

If well designed it will not. Or at least very very rarely. Like IRL - sometimes innocent person is convicted, but it doesn't happen very often.

jasonrohrer wrote:

And it's hard to make an automated karma system for anything beyond killing. There are loads of other bad behaviors that wouldn't affect karma. Planting the wrong crops, stealing, etc.
So let's say we have karma for murder (easy enough). And you see someone messing up the village farm. You tell them to stop, but they won't stop. Others tell them too, but no. You threaten them, but no. So now what?
You SHOULD be able to kill them at this point.
But if you do so, you will get negative karma. And you're the good guy.

Automatic system won't work - I write this every single time somebody proposes this. It should be instead upon people to decide who's griefer and who's not. We can easily exploit the fact that there are very few griefers, but they affect a lot of people.

jasonrohrer wrote:

This topic keeps coming up, and we keep going round and round about it. I don't think there's an easy solution here.
The simplest thing, at this point, would be to make killing even harder. The weapon stuck in your hand for even longer, making you even slower. Maybe so long that someone must feed you so that you can survive. Killin' is hungry work. The murder victim given even more time to call for help before dying.
I mean, I can keep pushing that lever as far as we want to push it.

It's fine as it is. Pushing this lever more doesn't solve anything. Griefer still can grief every single game, all day long, every day, with total impunity.

I already wrote proposal for karma based system to weed out griefers:
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … p=2#p16279
or actually find usefull roles for them:
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … p=2#p16290

I'll copy&paste it below to ease out discussion. If you find some problem with it - please, please tell me. I'll fix it.

---

It has been already proposed many times - curse and karma. We can exploit the fact, that non-griefers highly outnumber griefers, but griefer usually harms a lot of people at once (not only by direct killing).

Every player in a game can curse you. To prevent abuse you can curse only once per game/day/whatever will work best, so it can't be used effectively by griefers themselves or over petty stuff. Being cursed 2-3 times shouldn't matter much, and your karma decays to neutral, so you are being "forgiven" your misdeeds over time. If you get, say, 5-10 people cursing you, you get sent to prugatory server. That means you spawn only in games with other griefers, to hone your griefing strategies. Punishment doesn't need to be harsh, only inevitable - it may last for few hours or a day or so. Then you are back on normal servers, but you are "on probation" for a week or so. If you get significant number of curses in this time, you get sent for longer and longer periods to purgatory, with longer and longer probation periods.

Actual numbers doesn't matter much, they can be tweaked over time. There may be also small variations, like giving people that invested more into the game "stronger" curse (like elders in village, people with higher karma). Or giving some protection against curse for noobs during their initial period, etc.

As non-griefers highly outnumber griefers, it shouldn't affect many players. Ideally almost nobody should be in purgatory, unless he likes it. It should function more as detterrent, than punishment.

If you see any significant drawbacks to this, please share them. I really want to improve it.

---

Small addendum to my previous post about karma, that may please my opponents a bit. I don't want to prevent raids. So only your close blood relatives can curse you. If you take a horse with a cart and go kill people and plunder other town - God bless you. They can curse you how much they want - it has no impact or even bumps up your karma. Having city walls and guards starts to make sense then. Paying tribute by villages to larger town for protection also. Having experienced griefer born as your kid in town will be actually awesome.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-06-12 22:29:24)

ThatGirlOverThere · 2018-06-12 22:48:27

i think a better way would be if you Murder someone you will have a skull on top of your character like old school Runescape

sc0rp · 2018-06-12 23:05:42

ThatGirlOverThere wrote:

i think a better way would be if you Murder someone you will have a skull on top of your character like old school Runescape

Across lifes? If so, all good player will have it. Sometimes you need to kill a griefer...

YAHG · 2018-06-12 23:08:00

People will KEEP bitching no matter how hard it is to kill someone.

At this point in the game if you see them coming it is NOT POSSIBLE (run idiot) for them to get you.. How much further does it need to be nerfed?

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#1 2018-06-12 02:09:34

Jason! I'll tell you the only way to stop the murder!

#2 2018-06-12 02:19:57

Re: Jason! I'll tell you the only way to stop the murder!

#3 2018-06-12 03:07:26

Re: Jason! I'll tell you the only way to stop the murder!

#4 2018-06-12 03:51:34

Re: Jason! I'll tell you the only way to stop the murder!

#5 2018-06-12 04:24:30

Re: Jason! I'll tell you the only way to stop the murder!

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Re: Jason! I'll tell you the only way to stop the murder!

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#20 2018-06-12 21:02:52

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#21 2018-06-12 21:48:37

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