Update: Good Eating

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-15 02:51:28

There's now a good reason to eat all sorts of delicious foods, instead of just mono-gorging the most efficient and convenient food. Omelettes and tacos and kraut and stew. And even more reason to share food and meals than there ever was before, and hopefully a good reason to have a village chef that might coordinate all of this for you. Tuesday is taco night.

This update adds a YUM mechanic, which gives you a bonus for feasting with a long chain of food variety. The more variety you eat, the better you feel. So let's eat beans for every meal! Er... yeah, so plain bean tacos do get a little boring. Future updates will add some toppings to spice things up, and maybe even some slow-cooked carnitas. Get your limed corn ready, people.

Some of the more fiddly and plentiful seeds can now be stored in bowls, and a new domesticated animal sneaked in there too.

Monolith_Rans · 2018-06-15 04:09:19

yessssss! I’ve seen two eggs get burned so far, but no new fancy meals yet. Geese with their heads cut off are funny! And I enjoyed chasing goslings. I’m having fun again.

pressdare · 2018-06-15 07:45:55

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Lum · 2018-06-15 07:47:28

That is so cool

Aurora Aurora · 2018-06-15 08:47:10

I enjoy the geese

Angel Carrillo · 2018-06-15 12:13:16

Duck duck goose anyone?

TrustyWay · 2018-06-15 12:32:20

We have to eat junk food to stay healthy and common vegetables give less hunger bar ?

Does it mean we have to eat a bit of every food ? Or can we stay on a dietetic set ?

So we wont have differents crops finally and we switch on the second system or is it just the first step ?

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-06-15 14:05:57)

MrMaxim3 · 2018-06-15 12:43:09

Nice! Now chickens and cows! I must create cheesburgers and crispy chicken leg!

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-15 14:39:37

Junk food, TrustedWay? I don't think there's any of that in the game yet... Kraut and tacos and omelettes... these are the foods of the gods, not junk, my good fellow!

And no, this update does not reduce the food value of vegetables or anything else. It adds a bonus as your chain of unique foods gets longer and longer.

Any of you played Uwe Rosenberg's new game Feast for Odin? (He's the Agricola and Bohnanza guy). I just realized there's a similar mechanic in there, where you have to stock the banquet table every round, and you can't put the same color foods next to each other---they have to alternate.

Anyway, in this case, I'm not forcing you to alternate. If you eat like you used to eat, nothing changes. But if you eat a variety, you get a bonus. This is why an advanced civ will be able to worry less and less about food. Once they have a huge variety at their fingertips, they will be able to pump their bonuses super-high and eat even less frequently than full-stomach people need to eat.

Intangir · 2018-06-15 17:20:58

I'd much rather see more and more advanced technologies, and more efficient yet harder to prepare foods that CAN be mono-gorged.. most low tech civilizations (and thats as far as the game goes so far) DID specialize mostly in 3 or less staple foods as they left hunter/gatherer and got into agriculture

simplify basic survival as you advance in tech and allow for more specialized diversity in the economy, and for people to have more time for more interesting high techs,

* faster long range travel and trade.
* better personal/family homes.
* better long term and denser storage options (shelving?, pantries?, granaries? pottery?)
* roads
* windmills?
* power generation!
* industrial advancement

don't care about carnitas and tons of varied foods, the fun of the game for me is to experience how society grows and changes along with the level of technology and community sizes and makeups, and skills we have. people adopt roles in society and specialize, and as more productive capabilities emerge fewer and fewer people can provide for one needs while others are freed up to pursue broader goals.

thats what makes the game fun for me, and i like that it also educates people about how actual society and economy work in a way that books and schooling can't. I'd love to see the game further in that direction.. I have zero interest in any new food changes other than the soil and water availability increases.

I am hoping you keep expanding the tech tree to include ever more advanced capabilities. (rather than just ever more recipes)

Last edited by Intangir (2018-06-15 17:22:35)

Angel Carrillo · 2018-06-15 19:20:53

Intangir, we are heading toward more advanced things now, so this is realistic to have to alternate. Also, they were only staple foods. They didn't only eat those foods or, in real life, they'd get allergies eventually.

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-15 22:51:42

The way I see "higher tech" in this game is that it has to be stuff that you need for some reason.

I could give you CNC-milled cutting instruments made of titanium, but you would have no use for them, so you wouldn't use them.

Tech is motivated by need.

The next step is probably engines of some kind. But why? Probably because you're running out of water and need a stronger pump to pull from deeper. And why are you running out of water? Because of food.

In this game, food is the only thing you need, so everything comes back to that in some fashion.

Spockulon · 2018-06-15 22:54:04

jasonrohrer wrote:

Tech is motivated by need.

Grandfather was an engineer before retirement and would often repeat:

"Necessity is the mother of invention."

Christoffer · 2018-06-15 23:37:20

No, the greatest motivator has always been laziness, or strive for comfort. Washing machines, cars, computers, ... they were not invented because they were needed, but because they save labor. Good food increases comfort, so I’d say new food items fit the bill. Electric pumps fit if they save labor once they have been built. Necessity is not a requirement

Monolith_Rans · 2018-06-15 23:48:15

Intangir wrote:

I'd much rather see more and more advanced technologies,
thats what makes the game fun for me, and i like that it also educates people about how actual society and economy work in a way that books and schooling can't. I'd love to see the game further in that direction.. I have zero interest in any new food changes other than the soil and water availability increases.
I am hoping you keep expanding the tech tree to include ever more advanced capabilities. (rather than just ever more recipes)

I get what you are saying here, but I think food varieties are benigicial to society. One thing I’ve noticed in this game is that there is little time for festivals or celebration. I have come close to these things twice in the game. First was way back when in a carrot rich society that was dwindling. There was only one woman and we wanted her to conceive so we made sure she was warm with a fire and clothes. That wasn’t working, so we we all pulled off our clothes and danced around her. It worked! That was fun and it had me laughing at my computer! The next time was recently in an extremely overcrowded but well fed society. Eight of us gathered around a stump for the beheading of a goose. There were many lols and cheers. Having different foods gives us pleasure and brings us together in new ways. Who could murder the guy who gave you a taco? And why make irrigation, refrigeration, and farm automation if we’re just going to grow carrots?

Verte · 2018-06-16 13:21:16

I love the new gardening and cooking.

But what about the POTATOES ? They deserve a better place in the kitchen. Nobody ever bothers baking them. I think a handfull of fries to eat in small portions (for small stomachs) or on the go (for travellers) would be nice. Maybe you call them chips.
I also like to use potatoes in my vegetable pies, and in stews or soups of course...
In my familly, we fry potatoes in duck fat : it is delicious ! But olive oil is an option WHEN WE FINALLY GET TO GROW TREES...

Thank you for the new interesting and enjoyable content.

Kinrany · 2018-06-16 14:24:55

jasonrohrer wrote:

In this game, food is the only thing you need, so everything comes back to that in some fashion.

The dependency chains can be longer though. And some tech just makes everything else more efficient, like materials and infrastructure: glass and plastic, roads and computer networks.

There might be a problem with technical advancement being inherently exponential.
If the growth coefficient is too high, the first 80% of the game will be mud farming while the last 20% will be rapid growth from bamboo tech to space travel.

There's also the investment -> efficiency -> investment loop: if the growth coefficient is too low, the first 80% of the game will be farming resources saving for the next once-a-generation tech upgrade that makes the economy x1.01 more efficient. To avoid that, progress should be more granular, with more inventions that are cheaper, but

Oh, and the only tech that counts as progress is the tech that makes it's own production easier.
(Bootstrap tech, fundamental tech, leaf tech? Is it time to write down a taxonomy yet? Does one exist already?)

yvanhooe · 2018-06-16 16:03:48

At one point we will need something else as food as a motivation:

- In many games warfare tech is the main incentive to climb the tech tree.

- Exploration. If the biomes were organized differently with places harder to reach and some resources in some remote biomes (e.g. to get iron you have to cross a long wasteland that basically requires full-clothing and a backpack of food.) there would be more interest in things like horse carriage and roads.

- Medicine. There is a whole range of objects that even basic medicine would require: bandage, clutches, various pots of potions, blankets, etc...

- Shelter. In real life, a lot of resources are spent on making sure it doesn't rain on your head and that your stuff stays dry. OHOL does not have a very strong need for buildings yet, that's a shame. There could be a mechanics for rain, making it almost impossible for instance to keep wheat or flour on the ground unless it is inside a building.

- Culture. It is purposefully hard to make written documents in OHOL and to make any kind of cultural contribution. Yet I think that despite this being "unnecessary" experience has shown that players will go to lengths to still make this happen. I have seen mausoleums, milkweed closed garden, the city of Ovenpost had its name written in ovens at the entrance... Make a very hard to build object that's useless, like rosone that just projects a nice colored shadow on the tile below, and I am sure many civs will try to get some.

- Trade. There is none yet. The need is missing as no one has a monopoly on some resources or biomes. Also the nature of the game makes negotiation and transactions hard (and costly) to achieve. I don't think it is in Jason's idea to create a market-transaction system like in most MMORPG games, yet without something like this, it will be hard to have any form of market. How about having a kind of shop with automated transactions but that would only be active on a set of conditions like "the goods are to be in locked chests, the shopkeeper has to have the keys to the chest in the bag and a weapon handy"? It would be really nice if the elements of a shop could be loaded into a cart (maybe a fancier cart?) and moved to another city.

Kinrany · 2018-06-16 17:49:08

jasonrohrer wrote:

In this game, food is the only thing you need, so everything comes back to that in some fashion.

Not entirely true, you can also get killed.

But survival is not the only goal, there's entertainment too. Can we please have musical instruments?

onlyslightly · 2018-06-19 17:41:07

jasonrohrer wrote:

In this game, food is the only thing you need

From a purely mechanical standpoint this is true but players aren't mechanical. Players need to express themselves, socialize with others, and have fun.

Rebel · 2018-06-21 21:10:11

jasonrohrer wrote:

The way I see "higher tech" in this game is that it has to be stuff that you need for some reason.
I could give you CNC-milled cutting instruments made of titanium, but you would have no use for them, so you wouldn't use them.
Tech is motivated by need.
The next step is probably engines of some kind. But why? Probably because you're running out of water and need a stronger pump to pull from deeper. And why are you running out of water? Because of food.
In this game, food is the only thing you need, so everything comes back to that in some fashion.

I have mentioned before in a few posts,
with the introduction to decay, the future tech could lead towards items that decay less OR produce more.

EG Whats the point in making steel tools, because of they last longer.

However, ATM we do not see any "ages" or steps, because tech atm can be rushed in a generation or two. Thus, there needs to be a way of delaying this progress, bare with me on this.
there are a few ways to do this without truly destroying the feel of the game, each "life" must feel like they are progressing, however, progression must have a limit per life. This is where I believe Delay times for stations should be a thing, EG a kiln should take 30 mins to "set" before being usable AND also having a number of uses. This solves two things. ONE; timers on these structures would halt progression only for a generation or so (You have it for the bell tower why not others) and Two; gives you a doorway to future tech, EG a metal kiln that has not set time AND more uses, this means villages have to progress to these future techs because they cant just keep using clay kilns, same way you cant keep using stone tools.

I know alot of people hate the idea of being stopped progressing, BUT there should always be something for people to progress to.. you are born in a town with no clay stations you build them. you are born into a town with kilns, you can use them kilns to progress to steel. you are born in a town with steel you can progress to metal stations (bare in mind new stations will have new recipes too).. etc.. etc.. it shouldn't be able to be done in one or two generations. it should mean something when you spawn into a village that has progressed to steel "OH SHIT SON THIS TOWN IS LIKE 10 HOURS ALONG"

Basically, you are adding another reason to progress to use better items to save "Time" and increase "uses" (thus slowing down resource usage) always pushing towards the longer lasting items however these new techs would be slow to get to thus making the progression more meaningful, like when you see a built bell tower.

I understand that this may not be your mindset for the game however without this you will end up with villages having clay kilns while using engines, but it's your game, just throwing some ideas around.

Last edited by Rebel (2018-06-21 21:13:06)

Cocoduf · 2018-07-18 11:26:32

Maybe eating healthy like that could improve the health and resistance of our offspring ? So it really could pay off for the whole town and civilisation ?

Alleria · 2018-07-18 11:34:43

Cocoduf wrote:

Maybe eating healthy like that could improve the health and resistance of our offspring ? So it really could pay off for the whole town and civilisation ?

It already pays off. In some of my games Yum Bonus has contributed 60-65% of my caloric intake.

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#1 2018-06-15 02:51:28

Update: Good Eating

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