Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

YAHG · 2018-06-19 22:16:12

<3 you are thinking about me when I am not even there.. <3

Uncle Gus · 2018-06-19 22:22:54

Can you two get a room and please leave this thread to discuss the topic? Thanks.

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-19 22:30:31

Trick, what I'm trying to prevent is "one weird trick" to bypass the entire point of the game and keep working on the same project life after life. If there is nothing to prevent people from being born into the same family repeatedly, people will suicide over and over until they are born where they want to be born, and then just carry on building the same house or whatever.

The point of the game is playing one small part in something larger than yourself, and saying goodbye to your contribution when your life comes to an end.

If you want a crafting/building game where you can continue building the same thing forever, there are many options out there, including Minecraft. Why would I bother making yet another game that works this way?

I've always found that those games lack any kind of meaning, in the end, because you eventually finish what you were trying to build and then say, "Well, now what?" It's not even a challenge to build what you're trying to build. It's just a grind.

This game creates meaning because you have to say goodbye to what you are building. That may seem counter-intuitive, because it would seem to make everything meaningless. But I think the exact opposite is true. It is by saying goodbye that the true meaning of things manifest themselves. You know what would be meaningless? Living forever. Having as much money as you want, buying anything you want, and keeping everything forever and ever. In real life, I mean... not just in a game.

That might not be what the players want.... but that's the point of this game.

If you ever visit the same village again through being born there, it should be in the distant future, where you can marvel at how much has changed since you last were born there.

All that said, I'm not sure that a time-based lineage ban was the best solution here.

I'm not just "trying to prevent baby suicide." That's not really the main point. The point is to make sure that you say goodbye at the end of every life.

And I also don't want a mechanic that encourages you to go away for three hours and come back (that's one weird trick, isn't it?), which is what a time-based ban encourages, nor do I want to punish you and force you to play Eve after being abandoned by 5 mothers, at no fault of your own.

But I do want you to play in more than one village. Like, if you're playing all day, you should end up in a bunch of villages, not just suicide-spawning into the same village all day long.

What about a life-based lineage ban?

After you live at least 30 minutes (total) in one family line, you are blocked from spawning there again until you live at least two hours (total) in other family lines?

So coming back 3 hours later has no effect. It's only by playing the game, in other families, that clears up the lineage ban.

This would mean that dying as a baby would not prevent you from coming back in that same village again immediately.

Murder would cause the ban to kick in immediately, however.

And assuming that there were a bunch of villages around, you would never "run out" of towns and be forced to play Eve, as long as you lived a good amount of time in each town.

Uncle Gus · 2018-06-19 22:50:20

You could change it from a lineage ban to a server ban, and kick them to the next server down the line.

Izzytok · 2018-06-20 16:32:45

jasonrohrer wrote:

What about a life-based lineage ban?
After you live at least 30 minutes (total) in one family line, you are blocked from spawning there again until you live at least two hours (total) in other family lines?
So coming back 3 hours later has no effect. It's only by playing the game, in other families, that clears up the lineage ban.
This would mean that dying as a baby would not prevent you from coming back in that same village again immediately.
Murder would cause the ban to kick in immediately, however.
And assuming that there were a bunch of villages around, you would never "run out" of towns and be forced to play Eve, as long as you lived a good amount of time in each town.

That seems really interesting. It would be great if the lineages lasted longer however... For more casual players playing one full life in a village and then two more full lives before getting a chance to play in your initial one would definitely not hapen in a day. Another thing to consider about this idea is that by setting it to two full hours sounds a bit restrictive in the sense that you really have to play either two complete games to get the chance or else have to start a third no matter what. I'd prefer it set in a way that two good lifes (but not necesairily complete) would be enough time to pass you into the initial family's birthing pool. So two lives over 50 and you're looking at about 1h 40min of downtime from the initial family.

I am a fan of the lineage ban by the way, since I feel it varies up the gameplay. I would probably count myself into the more casual players base however.

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-20 17:21:42

Sorry, I don't think I was clear.

It's not about living a FULL LIFE, but about the total time spent.

So if you live until age 10 in the same village three times, that counts as 30 minutes, and you're done in that village for a while.

In order to clear the ban, you have to spend two hours TOTAL living elsewhere. This isn't about full lives, or whatever. Like, if you lived 12 lives to age 10 elsewhere, that would count.

This is really about saying, "Hey, you've spent enough time in this village, time to send you elsewhere for a while." And we'd measure "enough time" as a total that would affect the expert and beginner players the same way: how much "on the ground" time did you spend in that village?

And the 30 minutes is important, because if it was 60 minutes, then an elderly person would suicide a few minutes early (at 58 minutes), which would earn them another chance to be born there, and potentially live an entire extra 60 minutes.

Setting it at half a lifetime reduces the impact of this kind of gaming. If you kill yourself at 28, you will be born there again, for another potential 60 minutes (88 minutes total), but there's a risk there that your next life won't work out. You might as well live 32 more minutes in your current life.

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-20 17:26:41

Actually, reading you again, I think you did understand.

What you're saying is that for a casual player, playing 3 total hours in one day is a lot.

I guess that with the current time-based ban, you probably play one hour, take a 3+ hour break, and then come back later?

Yeah, maybe the required total life in other lines shouldn't be two hours. Maybe even just one hour is enough.

Izzytok · 2018-06-20 18:19:22

I was just thinking in terms of what would actually happen for both someone who plays a few games, and someone who plays all day long.

Say you played in a real great town. You died at old age.

The more casual player might call that a day, maybe play another round. No chance really to play another life in that town; even with the current system, he might have had enough play time for the day and go off after the second game.

The other player would start up another game. Not such a great town, but it was alright. Died at old age. Not really thinking about respawning in this village again, the first one still on his mind. Starts up another game, going great, but dies at 55 since he forgot to check his food when the chimes stopped - arrgh.

Now, if this player is really dedicated to trying to get to the first town and see how it looks now, he'd play a game till he was 5, kill himself and then baby suicide untill he gets into that sweet sweet first town.

Now that I wrote all this down I see it wouldn't really solve much for a dedicated player . But I was thinking something similar to League of Legends, where the first win of the day was on a 23h cooldown instead of 24h as a QoL kind of solution.

Two hours is just the absolute maximum you can squeeze out of two lives and if you mess it up (and really wanted to get to the first town) it leaves a weird third limbo-life that you slog through how ever much you need to to get to what you really want. If that makes any sense .

For the casual players, I guess they already rarely see their old towns anyway, so any sort of time-out period would probably be aimed at the hard-core players and the griefers, while minimally obstructing play for the casual players.

jasonrohrer · 2018-06-20 19:16:44

I think you're right.

Right now, I have it set at 30 minutes of living (to trigger the ban) and 60 minutes of living in other lines to clear the ban. But this might have the League of Legends first win of the day problem if someone lives to age 55...

So, can you figure out the ideal numbers here? Keep in mind griefers, too.

Though murder victims could be sent away even longer than normal....

YAHG · 2018-06-20 19:21:17

jasonrohrer wrote:

I think you're right.
Right now, I have it set at 30 minutes of living (to trigger the ban) and 60 minutes of living in other lines to clear the ban. But this might have the League of Legends first win of the day problem if someone lives to age 55...
So, can you figure out the ideal numbers here? Keep in mind griefers, too.
Though murder victims could be sent away even longer than normal....

Please do NOT use gates when possible. It encourages gimmicky play a scaling ban that is based on how old you lived or whatever metric is almost always better.
Personally I am not into the ban except for violent deaths (snake is good enough for me) but then again I don't have same ideal state as you do.

Izzytok · 2018-06-20 19:45:55

jasonrohrer wrote:

I think you're right.
Right now, I have it set at 30 minutes of living (to trigger the ban) and 60 minutes of living in other lines to clear the ban. But this might have the League of Legends first win of the day problem if someone lives to age 55...
So, can you figure out the ideal numbers here? Keep in mind griefers, too.
Though murder victims could be sent away even longer than normal....

I'm not really a designer, but I was thinking something around two hours seemed fine. Another thing that popped into my mind is for the ban duration to be lowered by playing in a different line.

So for instance, you die and get a two hour ban from that lineage. You can wait those two hours, and that's fine. OR you go play another game in a different line, and for every minute in that line you lower your ban a minute. After a full life in another line, you effectively have a one hour ban, and can get into the previous line instantly.

I have to agree with YAHG here though, these cut-offs promote gaming the system in my mind. I'm not sure if people would try to do this, but you could effectively have 89 minutes of life in a town if you played it correctly.

All these "hacks" are alright I guess, 29 more minutes of life is not much of an advantage; what bothers me personally is that these exploits include a lot of baby suiciding, since we're talking only about when you get a chance to respawn in your old lineage, it's not guarantied.

I'm rambling off topic a bit, but it seems like either you give players the choice to spawn where they please, or people suicide to get where they please, and neither of these is in the spirit of the game...

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2018-06-19 22:16:12

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#27 2018-06-19 22:22:54

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#28 2018-06-19 22:30:31

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#29 2018-06-19 22:50:20

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#30 2018-06-20 16:32:45

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#31 2018-06-20 17:21:42

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#32 2018-06-20 17:26:41

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#33 2018-06-20 18:19:22

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#34 2018-06-20 19:16:44

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#35 2018-06-20 19:21:17

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

#36 2018-06-20 19:45:55

Re: Re: improved lineage ban; bring back bad mother code?

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