Current idea for cursing/blessing

subria · 2018-07-03 17:37:56

forestglade wrote:
The Nameless poeple being able to get around it though.... That seems way too easy to game. Babies can easily jump off mothers, it's happened several times when I'm naming someone.

Yes. griefer will do that.

I think Hitler beard is good for murder. Maybe horn or Vampire teeth is better.

Last edited by subria (2018-07-03 17:45:12)

Lotus · 2018-07-03 18:19:30

Anshin wrote:

How about a snapshot system?
When you press ESC it makes a snapshot of the screen so you can directly click the person you want to curse?

FeignedSanity · 2018-07-03 18:20:08

jasonrohrer wrote:

Yeah, I guess the decay will have to happen per unit of playtime.
As far as colorful speech bubbles, I don't think the white text on black background will be too garish.
The blue will definitely be garish. I guess I could drop that part of it. The blessings will just counter-act negative curse points, and that's all. A big positive score does nothing.
Who really wants to be born under a "halo" anyway? More likely to make them a target than anything else. Goody-two-shoes over there with the heavenly speech bubbles. When he's not looking, I'm going to piss in his apple juice....

Honestly, I'm not sure if that feature should be thrown out. It would be great for deciding who to hand your knife down to when you get old, or who to trust with sensitive things in general. I don't really think it'd make people a negative target, I think it'd set someone apart as someone you could trust. I think it'd also be nice if someone is on the fence about keeping a kid, but sees the blue speech bubble. I feel it would give additional positive incentive to do good by people, which is always welcome in my opinion. Okay, on second thought, it might make you a target for those who are spiteful or jealous; but I feel like that adds some interesting dynamics to the game.

If you're worried about it being garish, why not just make it a lighter shade? Like a light blue, and still keep the black letters. Honestly, I don't think blue would look any worse than black.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Lotus · 2018-07-03 18:25:54

Maybe a natural light green colour instead of a blue?

FeignedSanity · 2018-07-03 18:30:22

subria wrote:

forestglade wrote:
The Nameless poeple being able to get around it though.... That seems way too easy to game. Babies can easily jump off mothers, it's happened several times when I'm naming someone.
Yes. griefer will do that.

Then you don't raise the kid, especially considering it takes a food bar to pick them back up. SIMPLE.

Honestly, I like how it makes naming much more important. Right now, it's just kind of nice, but now there'd be real consequences to not naming your kids. Especially with the tutorial, there should be no reason for not naming your kids. I see a future where unnamed kids go unfed and unnamed adults are shunned or even killed, (including mothers that aren't naming their kids) but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing. I think it would go a long way to making names more important.

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2018-07-03 18:41:26)

Anshin · 2018-07-03 18:47:52

Lotus wrote:

Maybe a natural light green colour instead of a blue?

Yes, green is nicer and suits the game more than blue.

Also, I totally agree with Lotus' idea of a popup name bubble that forces people to name themselves and their babies.
No duplicate names (especially if the twins/trips/quads thing is happening.)

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-03 19:06:25

If your baby seems to want to avoid a name... that's a bad sign, right?

If you say, "Let me name you," and the baby won't sit still, it's probably a bad seed.

Also, some of this will be ironed out more in the future when there are dozens of characters. Pretty much everyone will look unique.

kubassa · 2018-07-03 19:09:30

Telafiesta wrote:

Greifing isn't a real issue, if your tiered of the greifer winning then only spawn as a girl and make babies yourself. The combat mechanic in this game is so uncomplicated someone has a knife then run. I like the drama in the game, I have had people threaten death because I took their basket. Adding an update like this will not be adding content only taking more options away from the player base.
Grandma tells your mom to starve you as a baby because there isn't enough food, while she makes a stupid sign. Growing up to craft a knife or bow to kill that troll might be your best play-through all week. I don't think "curse you Grandma" will provide the same sort of exciting game play that first attracted many of us to this game. Life is exciting and fragile, so it should be the same in this game.

agreed 100%. less grow and eat sim. more real content like in the video on the main page. it seems the direction of the game changes every week. creating new food sources to grow is not NEW content IMO. Every update since the 'rags to riches' update has just made the game more and more tedious and boring. Now this idea....... LOL. If this garbage was in the main page video explaining the game i would have held onto my $20.

Uncle Gus · 2018-07-03 19:11:41

I don't like it requiring a name. It just means that all a griefer needs to do is wait until they're nameless and go to town for free.

Lum · 2018-07-03 19:15:11

I am in favor of scrapping the bonus points idea. This is about giving us ways to affect griefers in a way that they can't escape after their life with us. It is not about rewarding players for being decent human beings. Every person should be trustable, which means there should not be tiers of people: the normal ones, and the good angels above.

FeignedSanity · 2018-07-03 19:30:13

Uncle Gus wrote:

I don't like it requiring a name. It just means that all a griefer needs to do is wait until they're nameless and go to town for free.

First, how are they going to wait until they're nameless? Are you meaning that someone is going to run from their mom so they don't get named, or are you saying that someone is going to keep spawning until someone raises them without a name?

Obviously you have to get named if your mom wants to name you, either that or starve. And besides, if someone is nameless, it would lead to distrust and possibly even being killed. I think you're working under the assumption that nameless people would still be treated the same as they are before this system, and I'm disagreeing with that notion.

FeignedSanity · 2018-07-03 19:39:42

Lum wrote:

I am in favor of scrapping the bonus points idea. This is about giving us ways to affect griefers in a way that they can't escape after their life with us. It is not about rewarding players for being decent human beings. Every person should be trustable, which means there should not be tiers of people: the normal ones, and the good angels above.

But why not also give incentive for going above and beyond the norm, if you have the chance? It's not about rewarding players for being decent human beings. It's about rewarding those that go beyond the bare minimum and promoting a culture where people are more than just decent. Like the person that spends their whole life teaching, and helping others. The idea is to try to promote a culture where people are more than just decent.

But that's just some thoughts for discussion. Not saying in favor of or against.

West · 2018-07-03 19:47:15

I also like the bonus points, that way giving away knifes becomes save, and you dont have to gamble if the person you give it to is going to stab the next girl that comes close enough.

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-03 19:59:06

Well, I DO want to avoid artificially rewarding any kind of behavior. I'm not looking to create a "gold star" system here.

Part of the thesis of the game is that these things need no reward, because of the inherent nature of human reality. Not "human nature" outside the game, but the very structure of the game itself (individual lives are limited, etc.).

The "reward" comes in the form of existence as opposed to oblivion.

The PROBLEM with a curse-only system (you can only doll out negative points) is that it can be used in legit factional conflicts. If we disagree with how the village should run, and you build a posse against me, and you all curse me, even if your posse is only 25% of the village, I'm hosed.

However, if we can both curse and bless to counteract curses, then the rest of the villagers may be able to act to save me.

Now maybe having the cost be steep enough would be enough (one curse per life, use it wisely, are you going to waste in in some posse-gang-up nonsense?)

But in a "curse war," both sides can screw the other side with no way to remedy it. If your ten buddies curse me, and my ten buddies curse you, well, we're both cursed for a long time, and there's no way to repair it.

But if we each get one curse to give and one blessing to give, per life, then we can counteract this kind of thing. A curse war becomes pointless, then.

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-03 19:59:34

kubassa, please email me for a refund.

FeignedSanity · 2018-07-03 20:14:51

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, I DO want to avoid artificially rewarding any kind of behavior. I'm not looking to create a "gold star" system here.
Part of the thesis of the game is that these things need no reward, because of the inherent nature of human reality. Not "human nature" outside the game, but the very structure of the game itself (individual lives are limited, etc.).
The "reward" comes in the form of existence as opposed to oblivion.
But in a "curse war," both sides can screw the other side with no way to remedy it. If your ten buddies curse me, and my ten buddies curse you, well, we're both cursed for a long time, and there's no way to repair it.
But if we each get one curse to give and one blessing to give, per life, then we can counteract this kind of thing. A curse war becomes pointless, then.

I get that, then I am in favor of this kind of system.

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2018-07-03 20:19:09)

ryanb · 2018-07-03 20:24:29

Instead of blue background for a richly blessed player, maybe a faint glow around the text bubble or halo around their head? This would be a fun goal to achieve and help mothers decide to keep babies.

Overall I'm a little concerned about newbies getting cursed just because they don't know how to play the game. That could lead to them being abandoned frequently resulting in a poor experience.

Edit: A couple more thoughts:

Even with one curse/blessing per life, it might be possible to game the system by having two players continually bless each other on an empty server and then die. What if one bless/curse for each pair of players.

Also, cursing someone will likely result in them cursing you too. Should someone who is cursed be allowed to curse back?

Last edited by ryanb (2018-07-03 20:36:33)

Uncle Gus · 2018-07-03 20:37:53

It's gonna be a shitty experience for a new player who messes up and gets cursed and then people won't raise them.

forestglade · 2018-07-03 20:44:14

Hey. How about making new players easy to spot for the first three hours of play? Like they wear a green hat.

Does that make the game too easy? Like the tutorial?

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-03 22:16:09

Yeah, worried about new players being targeted. I don't want to mark them, and also, I don't really want curses used on them.

Though again, if curses are precious, you probably will save them for really necessary times, not just for a clueless player.

Also, I guess I should make the curse thing once per hour, not once per life. Otherwise, you will rush to "spend" an unused curse at the end of your life.

If you curse, you should be on "curse cool-down" for an hour of gameplay. Same if you bless.

Regarding the empty server exploit, the once-per-hour thing would fix that. But also, I'm thinking (for now) that this system will operate separately on each server. There will be no inter-server communication about it. So what goes on on an empty server will have no effect.

Regarding being cursed back... hmm....

In general, the idea here is that the masses will overcome the power of one bad seed. The bad seed can curse you once per hour, while the village can curse the bad seed 10-20 times per hour. If you recover by one point per hour, and the good villagers might also bless you from time to time, getting cursed by just one person should be no big deal.

forestglade · 2018-07-03 22:28:40

Yeah I just realized that new players are a huge liability in this game, so marking them is a bad idea. I take my suggestion back.

Hmm.. maybe if a new player gets cursed there is a small shimmer in the air and the curse is neutralized by the innocence of the player. But yeah, I can see being furstrated with a newbie who tills soil instead of feeding it to the berries, and people getting mad at the newbie. Someone did that at trinity and got yelled at and stabbed.

YAHG · 2018-07-03 23:06:28

This sounds foolish.

You can say you don't want it to be a gold star system but it will be.

If you want to make a cost to curse people make it that you get cursed for cursing people, people have to gang up to do anything to you.

People will curse people for taking things that they wanted, for not doing what they say, for not giving them the bag.

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-03 23:40:24

YAHG, can you unpack that a bit more?

So you'd get cursed one negative point for cursing someone? And just leave it at that, with no other limits? What about the limit of one curse per target person?

Otherwise, you could sacrifice yourself in order to curse someone silly. Or a griefer could go kamikaze and curse everyone in the whole village over and over (thus rendering themselves -100 or whatever).

YAHG, obviously, I've hesitated 4+ months without ever implementing anything like this. I have reservations.

But the reality is that killing just isn't permanent enough in this game. Killing, or the threat of killing, is sufficient in real life. But it doesn't really work here. Even if I were to make the lineage ban infinite for a murdered person, they still become "someone else's problem" right away. So they can make the rounds. And there will always be new lineages, so they will never run out of places to go.

When I designed this game, I thought the cost of death would be high enough. You lose all your progress and have to go through childhood again. And the cost of death is way higher here than in other multiplayer survival games (e.g., Rust). "Stop or I'll shoot" does mean SOMETHING here. I hoped it would mean everything.

I was wrong. Well, and also, I don't want to make childhood THAT costly, because it's boring. 3 minutes is long enough, but it's not long enough to give death a sufficient cost.

Noetato · 2018-07-04 00:03:47

Yess that would be super adorable !

Anshin wrote:

Make babies unable to jump out of their mothers arms for the first minute (infant stage) so there's time to name them, crawling during that first year would be adorable!

YAHG · 2018-07-04 00:29:21

The reason blue text will be a gold star system is because it makes people seem more important to
others, and people value status.. naturally. How people think of you in game matters in game. Who
gets the clothes, who gets kept as a baby (think "Q"), who is trusted when it is your word against
theirs. Behavior like counter blessing is sure to emerge as well as long as blessing doesn't have a cost.
By blessing each other you both gain, without cost this behavior will persist.

A good example of this is Reddit, look at how they move towards group think over time because they
are all hunting that karma. Certain types of posts, reposting stuff, certain types of beliefs. Once it gets
hold it is self perpetuating because people will do it for the boost. Yet in the end what does Karma do
on reddit? I have no idea, doesn't seem to be anything.

You need to have a cost to curse people otherwise people will just spam it for minor things. Tit for tat at
least stops them from spamming it. You or someone else suggested limiting people to only one curse per
life, which would be necessary.

I think the whole thing is just gonna end badly because the root of it is that we should have even more
control over how others play the game. People have their real lives controlled enough already by powerful
outside forces I doubt we need even more, much less in our leisure. The seed itself is rotten and will bear rotten fruit..

If you are going to do it anyways, then there would need to be costs both to bless and to curse. If say it costs 1
point to do either no one would do it unless it was important enough or they could convince others to join in.
This also destroys bless trading as well. The net effect is that the population as a whole would be more cursed
than blessed obviously but I don't see that as a huge deal.

You also probably do not want the curse/bless to decay linearly you probably want to decay faster the more
that they have. Imagine you are a cursed baby, what does a mother that cares about the curses do?

They try to get at least one other people to also curse you again and then leave you to die. This way you are
never let back into the player pool. If people believe that the curse is legitimate people are MUCH more likely
to curse you again to make sure it doesn't wear off. People are gonna be a lot less interested in playing as an
"untouchable".

The REEE'ers will perhaps say that it is good that these people leave for good. Why do we have to assume
these people are right? That they aren't making shit up about what that guy said.

I can say "Kill all niggers" and then starve on purpose click on the lineage link and post it from the view of
one of my relatives an VOILA look! I found a bad man daddy...

I am still convinced that these peoples mindset will ruin the fun of the game by forcing us to conform to their
dogmas. Can people be threatened with death in game to curse other players? Could you be killed for not
blessing the King?

Stabbings can be cured, wheating soil is pointless now, more and more things that are easy to wreck can be
repaired through work. I think it is a better use of time to focus on better tech options to reverse the damage
of the deliberately incompetent. Things to fix are stuff that is fast to do that can ruin stuff that is either
irreplaceable or a hung amount of work to make in the first place. Some things like guy kills all the sheep
might never be fixable.

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2018-07-03 17:37:56

Re: Current idea for cursing/blessing

#27 2018-07-03 18:19:30

Re: Current idea for cursing/blessing

#28 2018-07-03 18:20:08

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#47 2018-07-03 23:06:28

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