Current idea for cursing/blessing

zennyrpg · 2018-07-04 02:04:04

I support this.

I like the one hour limit.

Can you tell right away if you've been cursed? Or do you have to wait to see what you sound like when you are born?

Also-- I name my kids names like tom and sam. These are not super unique. I see a problem with duplicate names and the wrong person being cursed. Sometimes people also want to honor their parent by naming their child after them. It would be nice to know if you were targeting the right person.

Sometimes you don't have a name because your mom forgets to name you or dies before doing so. It would be nice to be able to name yourself so you can make the choice not to be nameless.

Despite those problems though, I still think this would be a good change.

annjust · 2018-07-04 02:47:24

YAHG wrote:

Stabbings can be cured, wheating soil is pointless now, more and more things that are easy to wreck can be repaired through work. I think it is a better use of time to focus on better tech options to reverse the damage

Compeletly agree！

forestglade · 2018-07-04 03:49:06

Jason, you probably only have four or five of the same regular griefers. Maybe it's just easier to go through your logs and clean those people away?

The griefing IS a problem. This whole ignore and let it go away just isn't working. The majority of us don't want to deal with horrible shit on the internet voluntarily as an entertainment. Yes, the occasional troll is fine, but lately the griefing seems pretty constant.

Neo · 2018-07-04 04:24:47

I'm still kind of on the fence about this.

Christoffer · 2018-07-04 04:54:49

I have to say I think the method proposed by Uncle Gus is the only really good one: every player who wants the offender gone grabs a blunt tool of their choice and starts whacking. The target player looses mobility if enough people join in. Whacks only count if there’s a chain of different players doing it in sequence (a bit like the yum bonus)

I would add: 1) let each whack detract one food pip, to speed things up, 2) death reason becomes “killed by angry mob”, 3) the number of people whacking is used to determine if the target player gets “punished ” in the next life/lives. Bigger mob -> longer punishment.

Why is this best? Because it adds to the gameplay drama while the person is alive, it isn’t dependent on knowing a name, it doesn’t rely on magic and it doubles as a defense against armed opponents.

My 2 cents.

Last edited by Christoffer (2018-07-04 04:59:31)

Akraticist · 2018-07-04 05:01:04

I didn't see this mentioned, so I'll add that this creates an incentive for mothers to name their children with their own name to reduce the likelihood of being cursed. Longer names are essentially more curse resistant, since you have to wait longer before having enough characters to type the curse. (None of this necessarily bad, just interesting.)

I think recognizing 'reincarnation' as core to the game's lore is the correct direction (admittedly, I really like most magical aesthetics, so I'm biased). I would even go as far as implementing some sort of craftable required to curse, in order to increase the cost of cursing and add flavor, e.g. bloodied yew staff, bowl of rabbit bones, etc.

Lepisma · 2018-07-04 06:45:59

jasonrohrer wrote:

Ah, what if left/right arrow keys cycle through names of nearby people with curse/bless auto-filled?

Neo wrote:

How about the option to curse someone by saying there relation to you. Like if your nameless brother is griefing you'd say "I curse you brother".

Combine these, please!

I curse you second cousin Bill Jones!
This might also help resolve the nameless problem, although it's entirely possible and even likely sometimes to have two "great aunt Nameless".

Maybe one blessing/curse per life, then the ability to "purchase" one more through some kind of ritual that's expensive and/or time consuming to make? Shrine/demon sacrifice circle/whatever would destroy itself when the person who adds the last piece uses the curse (tied to that person so it can't be stolen), so only one curse from one person per shrine -- maybe it even kills the user as part of the sacrifice, so they better be really sure they want to bless/curse that person -- maybe they sacrifice their own karma in addition, and lose a point of karma regardless of whether they bless or curse the other person; a true blood grudge/self-sacrificing blessing. Would make a maximum 2 votes per lifetime, and if it kills the user and/or adjusts the user's karma it would be difficult or impossible for the griefers to take advantage of (heck, they'd even take themselves out of the town they were griefing and only mildly harm one person in the process, if the other person is a 'legit' player with good karma!). Still very limited, but in the case of paired griefers you can still get them both without having to coordinate the town on who curses whom so that both griefers suffer the consequence. Or maybe you just love/hate that person that much.
Maybe it has to be built upon the grave of the person being cursed - would add to the "town tradition" aspect. And they would have to remember which grave and which name it was, in the case of people born after the person died, since graves don't show names for them - so the tradition would be even more important to the townspeople.

Maybe the shrine's not really necessary, but it'd be fun. There are some instances I can think of where I might sacrifice a point for someone I really liked or hated, especially if I knew or felt that my karma was in a good place. Would have to be a high-tier goal to work for, though, like Apocalypse and bell tower. Would be a neat new use for the crowned horse.

Would we be able to see our personal karma balance somewhere? Maybe on the death/respawn screen?

Last edited by Lepisma (2018-07-04 06:53:41)

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 07:03:43

Well, it seems interesting if cursing OR blessing costs you a point. So it's very precious.

And blessing would only counteract curse points, and have no other visible effect (no blue speech).

I agree about karma on reddit and conformity. Not trying to do that.

At the same time, I don't want to force people to play with idiots constantly if they don't want to. Self-defense should be possible. And not just short-term, but long-term.

Maybe it needs to be on an individual level only? Like the ability to mute in Discord. Maybe you should be able to say, "I never want to play near this player again," and then you will never be born near them, and they will never be born near you, ever again?

If one player is targeted by a lot of people, they will essentially be playing alone a lot.

But if one player targets a lot of other people (constantly "complaining" about everyone), they will find themselves alone.

So maybe the curses should be an individual thing?

Well, actually, this could be combined with the black speech bubbles, but only you see them in later lives if you've cursed someone?

So you can deal with them. You will see the mark that you yourself put on them. Then you can run around like a kook warning everyone about them. "I see the evil in his eyes! You must believe me!"

This is an alternative to the "born near me" block. Instead, they can be born near you the same as always, but you will always see them with a black speech bubble. Forever. And maybe you can bless them to remove it.

Lepisma · 2018-07-04 08:04:18

jasonrohrer wrote:

And blessing would only counteract curse points, and have no other visible effect (no blue speech).
...
So maybe the curses should be an individual thing?
...
Well, actually, this could be combined with the black speech bubbles, but only you see them in later lives if you've cursed someone?
So you can deal with them. You will see the mark that you yourself put on them. Then you can run around like a kook warning everyone about them. "I see the evil in his eyes! You must believe me!"
...
And maybe you can bless them to remove it.

Right, but it looks like you would still be able to have a positive balance (greater than 0), correct? I think that would help shield good players from groups of griefers and also any misunderstandings that might occur during the chaotic murder-mystery solving that often goes on in-game. Definitely agree there should be no visible effect to positive karma, but I think there are benefits to it existing behind the scenes.

I like the individual 'mute' ideas as well. It would prevent people from ganging up on someone wrongly by error or by spite, and thus prevent innocent players from being caught in the system in their next lives - and as you said, if a person complains/curses too many people they'll find themselves alone a lot. I like the idea of giving the next group the griefer gets stuck with a heads up via the "everyone sees" system, but the individual system has some good advantages, too.

With the personal system, I think there would need to be a way to see who you've cursed (when the other person is offline and/or not near you), though, so that if you decide that you acted rashly after calming down for a few days you could give the other person another chance and bless them later (or the person who realizes they're alone can rectify things).
Could it be so that we could log into a section of the website with our ID to manage a page with cursed users, and maybe write a short note to the side as to why we cursed them? (Billy was being dumb and annoying, but not significantly detrimental, so I'll give him a second chance. Jim murdered the whole village and uprooted all the bushes, so he's out forever).
Or even just a command in-game that clears all the curses at once so you can start fresh would be really nice, and probably a lot easier to implement.

Last edited by Lepisma (2018-07-04 08:06:33)

YAHG · 2018-07-04 12:50:07

forestglade wrote:

Jason, you probably only have four or five of the same regular griefers. Maybe it's just easier to go through your logs and clean those people away?

There are the same 15-20 people who bitch about griefers all the time would it be easier to just go through the logs and clean THEM away?

If you give a mouse a cookie..

It will never be enough. None of the other things you gave these people was enough, why would this one be any different?

Anshin · 2018-07-04 12:59:51

I greatly prefer private flagging rather than public flagging.
I like the current emergent game play, warts and all, but I realize some people have shorter fuses than I do. In theory if they can flag people that trigger them then they can avoid them. I do think that any IP flag private or public will cause stalking and vendettas, but it's better than having public gang ups against people who might very well be innocent.

zennyrpg · 2018-07-04 14:44:22

Although individual blocks could work, when I block someone they are now someone else's problem. Probably some noobs. They will spawn as an eve and all their babies will be noobs who haven't encountered them yet. It could be a good redemption for them, but probably a bad time for the noobs (maybe they are the kind of player who names their kids "bitchface" or whatever).

There's also the issues of individual blocks not wearing off (assuming they don't). That person my well be banished from society for a while, maybe indefinitely.

Yeah maybe the individual speech bubble thing is better than any sort of matchmaking mechanic. I would like two levels of curse though still. People make mistakes on both sides of the murder mystery drama, so having the white-on-black normal curse and the red-on-black multi-curse would be a good way to flag suspicious vs avoid as all costs.

Lum · 2018-07-04 14:47:25

jasonrohrer wrote:

And blessing would only counteract curse points, and have no other visible effect (no blue speech).

To me this is the best solution. Curse is -1, Blessing is +1, and the limit is 0. You start at 0 and if you lose points blessings can get you back up to 0, but not higher up, because there would be no point to that.

People are complaining about bad players not being punished, nobody is complaining about good players, aka players acting normally, as they are expected to act in this community, not being rewarded for it. Simply because being allowed to play the game as you want is reward enough for being a good player.

I feel like people who want a bonus point system are being very opportunistic here.

TrustyWay · 2018-07-04 14:51:19

YAHG wrote:

forestglade wrote:
Jason, you probably only have four or five of the same regular griefers. Maybe it's just easier to go through your logs and clean those people away?
There are the same 15-20 people who bitch about griefers all the time would it be easier to just go through the logs and clean THEM away?
If you give a mouse a cookie..
It will never be enough. None of the other things you gave these people was enough, why would this one be any different?

You right, people will always complain about griefers even if we make one hundred rules killing the game

ryanb · 2018-07-04 15:50:35

jasonrohrer wrote:

Maybe it needs to be on an individual level only? Like the ability to mute in Discord. Maybe you should be able to say, "I never want to play near this player again," and then you will never be born near them, and they will never be born near you, ever again?

This means new players will often be paired with a banished player which results in no experienced players joining them. Not only would new players be stuck with a griefer, they have no one else to help them deal with it.

It would be helpful if experienced players can help filter griefers for newer players so they have a better experience.

What do you think of the mob mechanic Flintstone mentioned above? Being clubbed to death could act as a curse behind the scenes resulting in the white on black speech bubble. The length could be dependent on the number of players who participated. This also clears up the issue with names.

Perhaps an object could help cleanse someone of the punishment but require multiple players.

Last edited by ryanb (2018-07-04 15:56:53)

TrustyWay · 2018-07-04 15:58:32

ryanb wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
Maybe it needs to be on an individual level only? Like the ability to mute in Discord. Maybe you should be able to say, "I never want to play near this player again," and then you will never be born near them, and they will never be born near you, ever again?
This means new players will often be paired with a banished player which results in no experienced players joining them. Not only would new players be stuck with a griefer, they have no one else to help them deal with it.
It would be helpful if experienced players can help filter griefers for newer players so they have a better experience.
What do you think of the mob mechanic Flintstone mentioned above?

Yeah true that too.

Imagine people banishing all not enough hard working people and telling others to do the same if they see players enjoying the game or newbies... not only griefers will be filtred and the term griefers change a lot from one to an others.

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-07-04 16:02:32)

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 16:53:38

Never been a fan of the mob clubbing idea, mostly because it is messy to implement and subject to network latency issues. I can imagine it being very confusing when a bunch of people are running around trying to bash someone who is trying to run away. I'm just imagining.... but that is what I imagine. Chaotic, and sometimes clicking each other by accident as we madly click on the target. And then the server is conducing this timing thing, counting the seconds between bashes, and then the target is frozen, which would be frustrating and fragile, and the on top of that, the target is also punished in the next life?

It's hard enough for one person to stab one other person, given network latency...

Anyway, I'm definitely leaning away from any systematic "punishment" of any kind, and more leaning toward some kind of label/marking system (which of course will be the same thing, because most players will react to labels).

I currently think that individually-visible labels are the most interesting option, because they still allow for lots of social drama. If you see a marked person born, you have to argue with the mother about keeping the baby, etc., because the mother won't see the mark herself.

If the marks are visible to all, it again kinda "solves the problem for you."

ALSO, regarding "just making the person someone else's problem":

Again, "problems" are in the eye of the beholder. Maybe it really annoys you when someone doesn't eat optimally. Maybe other people don't care. Maybe this or that verbal rhetoric really bothers you. Maybe other people love it. Even if you and your five village buddies all agree that the behavior is bad, that doesn't mean that the behavior is bad for everyone. If the threshold was 5 curses, then you five would have the power to mark the person for everyone to see. And maybe you're the only five in the whole game who actually care about this issue, but now the person is marked globally.

If a person is bothering you, they are your problem. That's all you can say for sure.

And maybe you will decide that you never want to accidentally raise them as a baby in the future. Individually-visible marks gives you that power.

The idea of two tiers, based on curses and double-curses, is good. And then blessings give you the power to remove marks that you yourself have set, but that's it.

How would a blessing ever happen? Maybe you argue for a marked-for-you baby to be abandoned, but the mother doesn't listen. You get the feeling that the village won't get behind you if you murder the baby, so you let it go. The baby grows up and contributes to the village. They've changed their ways, it seems. Maybe you decide that you misjudged them, so you bless them to clear the mark.

This also solves the "curse war" thing, and tit-for-tat. If you curse someone, and they curse you back, so what? You've both marked each other. That's actually kind of interesting.

Now a question:

Should the act of cursing/blessing be visible to the people around you? Like, should your character actually say "CURSE YOU JOHN HOLMES" out loud?

Or should it be said "under your breath" so that the server gets the message, but nothing is said for others to see?

I.e., should it be a private or public matter?

I mean, obviously, you can run off into the bushes to utter a curse if you wanted to...

Anshin · 2018-07-04 17:07:32

Would you know if you've been cursed and who did it?

For example, I often find myself dismantling the work of griefers. I can imagine if that griefer sees me doing so that they would curse me for it. Would I know I now had a target on my head?

TrustyWay · 2018-07-04 17:13:41

People can lie but it is rare to see people lying in this game

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-07-04 17:14:22)

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 17:17:55

Well, with individually-visible-only marks, the fact that a griefer would curse you wouldn't matter. You would just be marked for them. Who cares if a griefer sees you as marked in the future?

Anshin · 2018-07-04 17:19:05

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, with individually-visible-only marks, the fact that a griefer would curse you wouldn't matter. You would just be marked for them. Who cares if a griefer sees you as marked in the future?

Me, because they could make a point of killing me every life I live after they curse me.

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 17:36:27

Well, here we see that everything (again) goes both ways.

Tools that help the good guys also help the bad guys.

But if there really is safety in numbers, the individually-visible curse system will still work, right?

Because a griefer is more likely to have lots of people individually cursing them over time, then lots of people seeing them as cursed when they are born later. More and more likely for people to agree that a baby should not be kept. "I see him as evil." "Whoa, I see him as evil too!"

If you are marked out of spite by a griefer, they alone will see you as marked. They can argue with others that you should be killed, but no one else will agree, because they won't see you as marked.

Auner · 2018-07-04 17:55:48

jasonrohrer wrote:

This also solves the "curse war" thing, and tit-for-tat. If you curse someone, and they curse you back, so what? You've both marked each other. That's actually kind of interesting.

Now a question:
Should the act of cursing/blessing be visible to the people around you? Like, should your character actually say "CURSE YOU JOHN HOLMES" out loud?
Or should it be said "under your breath" so that the server gets the message, but nothing is said for others to see?
I.e., should it be a private or public matter?

I personally think it should be a public matter, this is a way for players to police themselves, it wouldn't solve any problems without it being visually obvious---- but I do think there should be an emphasis on the 'power' of your curse if you said it right before death in red--- vs a regular non-death curse.

I think a non-death curse should be more forgive-able, however if they are cursed with blood, and more people curse them soon after-- then black text.

This will give players who need to kill a grief-er some slack.

For example- if you are a pk'er and you get cursed, you get born with 'blood' on your words and your next life the mother has to choose to give you the shot at redemption or not.

However- if you are cursed before death-- and you are cursed after by the victims family-- you're born with black speech on a black bubble-- "Born without a tongue" seems like some appropriate black magic kind of outcome.

But basically people shouldn't separated from cities over one execution. Too much opportunity for innocence to go punished.

The power of the magic should come from the amount of people willing the blessing or curse. Thus, one individual's will, will not determine the way for another.

The biggest issue so far with this is that if you don't name them, you're screwed. For grievers- not being named is an 'opportunity to be naughty' (most of them are 9) so what may be fun is---introducing Voodoo!

If they're nameless- or named- you could curse them via the murder weapon. It would be fun to do it to a shirt or shoe- but then grievers will learn to not dress themselves.

But pretty much you could make it simple "Curse the one who killed with this"

Or you could have a more powerful curse- and say you got to line up the bones of the griever- with the murder weapon- and a fire in the same square or something- or 3 squares. and then you go "Curse the killer" --- this could give the griever a black tongue for the first 5 min of their next life- however if the murder weapon doesnt belong to those bones- the magician gets cursed! Lol! (IMO a good balance would be if you want more power to curse someone, it becomes easier and risky to end up cursing yourself instead)

In terms of to see your curse/curses info- having it on the website would work-- but you could also make a new image for the pile of bones- and make them cursed with like a clear cross bones predominately displayed. That would be the fastest way to see if the curse worked or not.

Last edited by Auner (2018-07-04 18:01:30)

Anshin · 2018-07-04 18:08:23

I hate all this magic stuff. It totally defeats the point of the game as being an exploration of humanity. What makes this game special is the attempt to examine the human condition. I don't grief, but lots of people do. Welcome to the world. Lots of people suck. May we all learn to be better people.

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 18:10:03

I want to be clear:

This is not necessarily supposed to deal with murder. Murder deals with murder (along with healing).

It's meant to deal with all sorts of annoying behavior that spans across lifetimes.

One Hour One Life Forums

#51 2018-07-04 02:04:04

Re: Current idea for cursing/blessing

#52 2018-07-04 02:47:24

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