Current idea for cursing/blessing

Auner · 2018-07-04 18:12:34

Anshin wrote:

I hate all this magic stuff. It totally defeats the point of the game as being an exploration of humanity. What makes this game special is the attempt to examine the human condition. I don't grief, but lots of people do. Welcome to the world. Lots of people suck. May we all learn to be better people.

You realize that before court systems were set-up to enforce punishments, society's sanity was primarily enforced by witchcraft/shamanism/priests? You see you aren't going to rob someone because you're nice- but lets say your child is starving or something- so you want to steal. In modern times you worry about going to jail- in olden times you worried someone would curse your soul and keep you out of heaven.

Last edited by Auner (2018-07-04 18:13:44)

Anshin · 2018-07-04 18:15:26

Ya, but it still wasn't real. There are no witches or witchcraft or voodoo. Curses aren't real, they didn't actually work.

Anshin · 2018-07-04 18:17:50

LOL what would be realistic is saying "I curse you Joe Schmo!" and nothing happens at all.

Auner · 2018-07-04 18:23:24

Anshin wrote:

Ya, but it still wasn't real. There are no witches or witchcraft or voodoo. Curses aren't real, they didn't actually work.

Sure- and going to prison doesn't reform anyone either!

But it's a game- no one wants to play in a jail cell. It's also an easy way to give players a way to enforce punishments for bad behavior.

The issue here is really- "How do we enforce some basic laws?" And while I -do- want a play style that's 'warlord' like-- when people come online pissed as fuck at the world around them- it's not a novel experience and they ruin everyone else's game. Even GTA online has a punishment system for the super enraged.

Since this is a one man show---- it'd make Jason's life way easier if players could enforce punishment that went beyond a life-time. Magic is just the means to the end of solving this problem.

If you don't think this problem should be solved- then I disagree, but respectfully so.

If you want this problem solved- do you have a simpler alternative?

Anshin · 2018-07-04 18:35:30

I think the tech tree needs to be advanced so that we can have jails. Yes put someone in jail and they are stuck there for the rest of the hour/can't log out/if they do they're still in the same jail. That's a real threat. People avoid jail because it wastes your time, and so it should. It also keeps griefers from becoming someone else's problem for a while.

Also way more character types/parts so that everyone actually looks unique and memorable.

What I do like is the ability to privately flag within one game. It's a sort of remembering their face. But beyond that life it becomes magical stalking and that sounds awful.

Last edited by Anshin (2018-07-04 18:36:29)

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 18:37:34

Anshin, the big difference here is that there is reincarnation.

In real life, you are trapped in your body, and you just have one shot. So courts have some real teeth, because your body is it, so if they do something to your body, it really means something.

What if, after being incarcerated by the court, you suicided in jail and came running back into the court room in a different body, saying "See? There's nothing you can do to stop me!"

That's magic, right?

There's only one way around this problem in the game, and sadly, it's not something I can do, because I don't want to commit financial suicide. So, people will be reborn, because people want to play the game more than once, generally. Games that can be played more than once sell way better than games that you can only play once.

So without true permadeath---which is impossible anyway, because people could buy the game twice---we need to accept that some kind of metaphysics is on the table.

And then we need to ask how we're going to deal with that "magic" guy who runs back into the court room to taunt the judge in his brand new body. And keeps doing it. Over and over. Forever. Like magic.

In a metaphysical reality, a physical solution is not sufficient.

Now, if the guy is making himself known like this, and taunting the judge openly, just shoot him over and over, right? But you might not want to wait until that point, because he gets a chance to break the courtroom windows each time before you get a chance to shoot him, and you're getting sick of installing new windows.

If you could mark him, and then notice him next time he is born, you'd have a chance to stop him before he was powerful enough to break anything. Imagine the wary judge visiting the maternity ward and inspecting the tiny occupant of each bassinet....

Anshin · 2018-07-04 18:42:42

I remember you saying you didn't want men involved in reproduction in the game because trolls would stalk women.
Well, this is going to allow them to stalk them FOREVER.

Auner · 2018-07-04 18:52:35

Anshin wrote:

I remember you saying you didn't want men involved in reproduction in the game because trolls would stalk women.
Well, this is going to allow them to stalk them FOREVER.

It probably would be a good idea- that if you curse someone you can't spawn/be spawned from them for the next 30 min or something.

But logistically i don't see this happening. Cause you see with men being involved in reproduction would make women the means to and ends of gaining something (a child). This isn't right because all humans should be the ends to all the means- we grow food as a means to our ends. People/players should not be in a situation where they're means to an end for the game to have successful progress.

While magic is the means to an ends of a problem being solved. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Also it's very hard to tell in game if you've played with someone before- it's impossible to stalk an individual throughout multiple lives.

Last edited by Auner (2018-07-04 18:55:43)

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 19:40:03

Well, a troll could use the marking system to stalk you in future lives, but only if they only marked just you. If they mark more than one person, they can't tell you apart.

I guess a troll could mark a whole stable full of "favorite victims."

But wouldn't all those victims mark the troll back?

Thus, there's strength in numbers, and all these former victims will kill the troll as a baby.

TrustyWay · 2018-07-04 19:48:15

Is that true ashine ?

I think it could be great if the women agree to let the men impregnate her.

Last time I had sex in this game, it was wonderful (not the sex but the event) I was a king and my prince birth to my wife exactly after we said ''we makes sex''. This was a good experience to me.

The real problem is not stalkers but jaleous men killing the girl who ditch her for somebody else. But it is only natural and rare, it still could be a great experience, we need to try.

We need people to survive, talking to them. Actual reproduction is just production of people, it is not even a real birth to me.

I think this could add much to the game.

Auner · 2018-07-04 19:55:22

my thoughts on solving possible abuse of it:

You could make it so the cursed can't curse another player-- assuming the curse wears off over time and isn't permanent.

The more people who curse you the harsher the punishment-- by combining time with the curse/visual representation via speech bubbles

Cap curses at one curse per life- if they curse 2 people they also curse themselves. Have a way for players to self-sabotage. Having a self-sabotage aspect to magic will encourage people solving the issue in their life time instead of relying on magic too much

Anshin · 2018-07-04 19:57:04

Here's an idea to try and bring the game back to a realistic position:
Return to the pregnancy preview idea.
A short pregnancy where mom & unborn baby can assess the situation and either can press A to abort for whatever reason (like "bad seed").

EDIT: Maybe M for miscarriage, less of a hot topic issue than abortion...

Last edited by Anshin (2018-07-04 19:58:07)

Auner · 2018-07-04 20:03:50

TrustyWay wrote:

The real problem is not stalkers but jaleous men killing the girl who ditch her for somebody else. But it is only natural and rare, it still could be a great experience, we need to try.

Your logic here is terrible.

Ok- if in the game-- to get a linage as a man you need to have sex with a woman-- then grievers who are born male will make the game experience REALLY outcast female players-- cause you're essentially giving in-game benefit to rape. That kind of experience isn't something we want as an option for the internet to simulate.

But- i have had marriages in game, and i do enjoy the extra meaning it gives to that particular life-experience.

We're definitely getting off topic but- curious if you'd be satisfied if a form of partnership- and then kin was included to the partner- was added in game. My vote would be like "<Name> Is my partner" and no exclusion to same sex marriages cause it's 2018!!

Additional thoughts: encouraging family units in the game would really encourage sharing. Good marker for a good player would be a previous life as a good partner- you could make it so if you grow old with your partner, if you receive a blessing from them in their last 10 min you get blessed extra

Last edited by Auner (2018-07-04 20:13:10)

Anshin · 2018-07-04 20:11:33

We're getting so off topic, but yes
- Men should be a part of reproduction.
- Within a life flagging is fine (remembering a face) but cross-life memory defeats the purpose of a new life.
- If you must have cursing, the idea of it hobbling the character as a next-life birth defect is awesome.
- If you must have cursing, then moms should be able to assess their pregnancies and decide if they want their babies.

Kinrany · 2018-07-04 20:12:50

Jason, it seems you also think that there can be no universal moral system, yet you keep using words that force a black and white view of the world and confuse everyone, including yourself.

A global karma counter is a poor solution. It's a proxy for the average opinion of all the players. Not sure if you've explicitly stated the problem you're trying to solve here, but I see no reason for this solution to be aligned with this goal.

Private marks have another problem, they completely ruin the illusion of playing with strangers. Transcendental Facebook anyone?

jasonrohrer wrote:

Tools that help the good guys also help the bad guys.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this anymore. It could be anything, from "anyone can use any tool", to "good and bad are subjective", to "no tool can ever help the good guys more than the bad guys".

Auner · 2018-07-04 20:22:26

Kinrany wrote:

Private marks have another problem, they completely ruin the illusion of playing with strangers. Transcendental Facebook anyone?

This why public marks are key imo

Kinrany wrote:

A global karma counter is a poor solution. It's a proxy for the average opinion of all the players.

So make it short-term. Like 1 point would mean the curse goes away once you hit teenage-years in your next life

Last edited by Auner (2018-07-04 20:24:51)

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 20:24:17

I mean all three things, I think!

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 20:29:33

New thread here with current working plan:

http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2538

Kinrany · 2018-07-04 20:46:12

no tool can ever help the good guys more than the bad guys

Well, this one was intentionally written to be false :)

To be more precise, it's meaningless without specifying whether we mean all morality systems or one specific system. We do need to know who's the good guy and who's the bad guy.
Using one specific system is pointless because it's impossible to agree on a single system.
And it's clearly false for at least some systems. It's very easy to help enforce a rule where everyone should obey the oldest player in the village. For example, there could be a totem that makes the oldest player invulnerable. It's useless to those who don't want to help enforce the rule.

More generally, this seems very similar to the fallacy of gray (aka continuum fallacy): "no statement is certainly true or certainly false, therefore all statements are equally valid". The fallacy being that an inaccurate binary model is being replaced with an even more inaccurate unary model.

Last edited by Kinrany (2018-07-05 12:16:49)

LaughAtlantis · 2018-07-04 21:10:40

Might I suggest adding "naming a baby" to the tutorial then?

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 21:14:49

I meant "good guys" by however the complainers are currently defining it.

Like, "I'm sick of being murdered, I want armor!"

Obviously, armor isn't a solution to this problem. It's like complaining about guns in the game and begging me to add nukes as a solution to the gun problem.

If you define "good" just so, you can certainly devise systems that are easy to enforce.

I'm fascinated by "first come, first serve" as a universal rule of justice. It seems so obvious, and is very easy to enforce (people who got there first are already sitting in the best seats, and it requires explicit effort to remove them), and people rarely complain about it. But upon examination, it seems arbitrary.

What about "last come, first serve"? The people who have been waiting there the longest clearly have nothing better to do and shouldn't mind waiting even longer, right? But it would obviously never fly. It seems to go against the grain of reality somehow.

But a lottery that ignores who got there first also flies. "First come, random serve" is just fine.

Anyway, I can imagine a hidden camera show where people are standing in line, waiting for some event to open. As the event opens, the attendants go to the back of the line and lead that end of the line through the gates first. "We're trying something different today, last come, first serve". I think it would end in physical violence.

Alleria · 2018-07-04 21:33:02

LaughAtlantis wrote:

Might I suggest adding "naming a baby" to the tutorial then?

It's already there at the same place as where you learn to name yourself as Eve.

Kinrany · 2018-07-04 21:40:01

"First come, first serve" is a very natural system because it favors those who invented the rules above everyone else. That's obviously a good thing for those who invented the rules, and also for those who are currently enforcing them.

Lotteries and waiting in lines are kinda different because they're governed externally.

TrustyWay · 2018-07-04 22:32:06

Auner wrote:

Your logic here is terrible.

My logic isn't terrible, people already rape each others in this game without sexuality.

What I meant was If I can be married ofc I will be a bad boy and try to get all women and no men. It is not griefing, it is a nartual competition, which is a true fact.

If you played enough you will remember the time where people killed all the boys and the few remaining boys, who suvived by luck, killed each others. I did it so many time, killing men was okay for people at this time, I never killed that much babies, young and old men too.

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-07-04 22:37:27)

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-04 22:57:42

No sure what you mean, Kinrany, about those who invented the rules. You mean because the people who get there first get the first chance of making the rules for those who come later? Just because someone subscribes to "first come first serve" doesn't mean they are always first everywhere they go...

I went to the movies last night, and some of my family had bought tickets ahead of time. They went in and got seats while I waited to buy more tickets.

When I came in to join them, we had pretty good seats.

As time passed, I watched people come in later and later and accept poorer and poorer seats.

But it never crossed their minds to ask us to move so they could sit where we were sitting. It's not an official policy of the movie theater, or posted anywhere. But it seems so obvious. People might not even think to give it a name, unless pressed, and then they'd say, "Yeah, I guess movie seats are first-come, first serve." But more likely, they'd just think, "Those seats are taken." or "Someone's already there."

It can't be right to threaten a peaceful person who is just sitting there. They got there first.

I.e., libertarian property rights are alive and well in movie theaters across the land.

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Re: Current idea for cursing/blessing

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