Implementation plan for curse system

Tarr · 2018-07-05 02:50:03

This sort of sounds like a sort of filtering player by player based on how you curse. If I'm reading this right it feels like I'd be using the multiple curse system as a guide on my babies. One curse - The new players. Cursing new players gives you an idea when you have a baby that is still learning the ropes of the game. These can be a detriment if they do not know the very basics but are redeemable. I for example would keep these babies due to the off chance they've learned since I've had them last. Curse level two - The sponges. These are people who may or may not know the game but seem to be eating more than doing anything else. These babies are only kept if the correct gender (female.) Otherwise, since they've proven in a previous life that they weren't worth their weight they get dumped on a snake unless able to continue the family line. Level three curse - The troll. This always goes into the garbage whether correct gender or not. If you're off stabbing multiple people in a life without rhyme or reason I'm not risking it.

I'd much rather see a system like described where cursing someone causes you and the other to suffer some sort of consequence. You shouldn't be cursing people just because they're slow or learning the game. You should be using this sort of thing on people clearly going out of their way to ruin the game for others. It should also be a one per lifetime sort of thing to prevent someone from burning their own score to ruin the score of others.

If system one is implemented it should only be a one tier sort of thing so people aren't just filtering others based on levels of karma. If system two is a thing it should be limited to once a life and always cost yourself negative karma to place negative karma on others.

YAHG · 2018-07-05 03:54:59

Pretty much already been said.

If curses are visible to everyone people will end up stuck in infinite curse loops.

If curses are only visible to the curser then it is most useful to "mark" useful people as they are both more
common and easier to identify. Gold star system and all that implies

Seems like a paradox that no one has a good solution for?

Lepisma · 2018-07-05 04:01:39

Thinking I like the first proposal here better (individual curses, not global). Maybe with 2-3 curse levels. Gray speech bubble for annoying, black speech bubble for obnoxious, black/red for gtfo.

Still would like a "start fresh" option for the individual set to clear all active blessings/curses and set everyone to 0 for myself.

I'm not sure why people are super worried about "stalking" - you can stalk what, 2-3 people total and ID them with some level of certainty, and then what? They mark you back and start avoiding you/killing you as a baby before you can bug them?
Sure, you could mark your friends too, but then you don't get the benefit of marking people to avoid. And frankly, if you're playing with your friends you're probably communicating with them outside the game and able to ID them anyway, so what's the point?

Last edited by Lepisma (2018-07-05 04:03:39)

jasonrohrer · 2018-07-05 05:57:42

Global curses.... Stuck in a curse loop is a problem, hmm...

In system two (global curses), babies wouldn't be able to curse anyone, because it's a speech-based system (you literally have to say the phrase, which requires a certain age to speak that long.

Maybe you can't keep cursing someone who is already showing up globally as cursed? They have black speech already. Leave them alone.

Well, if curses are more limited, you wouldn't necessarily want to waste your curses on them.

If you gain 10 points each time you curse, and only clear 10 points per hour of play, you can't curse more than one person per hour on average without going over yourself. If you gain 20 points each time you curse, you can't curse more than one person every two hours on average.

But yeah, playing your way out of a curse is going to be a real pain. Probably have to do most of it as Eve. That's okay. If it's hard enough to get cursed, then it will affect only the most egregious griefers.

We can set the threshold as high as we want to make it feel just. 100 points too low? Make it 200 then. That's 20 people who though you were a real pain.

System 2 (global curses) is easy enough to implement. I'm going to try it and see what happens, and leave plenty of room for tweaking the parameters.

forestglade · 2018-07-05 06:17:51

200 is too high. Maybe start at 12 and see how it goes?

Especially since it decays. It means you can grief one person every other life.

sc0rp · 2018-07-05 09:02:42

Kinrany wrote:

Some thoughts for global karma:
- the game isn't free, so new players can start with slightly positive karma

+1
Either that or curse should affect them much less in first X hours of playing.

Kinrany wrote:

- the game isn't free, so it should be possible to recover from negative karma

Free doesn't matter here. It should be possible to become good again, period. We don't want to end up with bunch of players that have no way to get back to society.

Kinrany wrote:

- recovery shouldn't be automatic, to avoid cycling through multiple accounts

It may be automatic - after all IRL people forgets/forgives misdeeds of others over the time. Way around multiple account may be to make it exponential. E.g. curse lasts for an hour with 1 day probation time. If you are cursed again during probation, it lasts for few hours with few days of probation, etc.

Kinrany wrote:

- it shouldn't be possible to hide a large amount of negative karma by saving or farming positive karma in advance

+1

Kinrany wrote:

On another note, it would be nice to manipulate karma with in-game actions, not commands.

I think it may also be a good way rate limit it and avoid using it over petty stuff. It may start with some text (you have to choose who you are cursing), but then some kind of ritual needs to be performed (think: staking vampire through the heart). Ritual should take like 5-10 minutes in game time, so you really need to hate somebody to waste that much time. It should not require some advanced tools, so you have a way to perfom it, if you have to flee the town.

sc0rp · 2018-07-05 09:13:14

Uncle Gus wrote:

I think an individual labelling system is the safest, even if it's just a good dot and a bad dot. Then I can label a griefer who just stabbed me and when I see a bad labelled player, I can avoid them, kill them first, tell other people, etc.

The problem with this approach is that too fragile. If there is a group of people that trusts you and you mislabel one player (by accident, by malice or you just read some situation wrong), he will be chased by the whole group.

Uncle Gus wrote:

Just because someone has been "cursed" by someone else, doesn't mean that the curse was warranted or that I agree with it, but if I can track my own labelling, then I know that a lablled player is someone I already identified as someone to avoid.
And vice versa, if I grow to trust another player and put a good dot on them, and they later tell me "I have a bad dot on that player" I'll probably believe them.

There could be a way to value somebody's judgement more or less. It shouldn't be enough that one person labeled somebody "bad" to go after him - that's too error prone.

subria · 2018-07-05 09:28:32

jasonrohrer wrote:

Global curses.... Stuck in a curse loop is a problem, hmm...

No no. Bad man will not stuck in curse loop except they want that.
If bad man have 110 curse point, maybe no any mom feed him, he will die after 1 minute. Very hard to decrease his point. But. After several time, he can reborn as Eve. Survive in 60 mins is very easy if he know how to grief. And with 60 minutes, he decrease his point <100 point. He can play normal.
Several time to reborn and 60 mins survive is a price for what he did.
If he still play like asshole, next time he need 120 mins live as a good man. If he still not change his behaviour? Well, we do not need care him anymore.

Current plan is ok.

ZCaliber · 2018-07-05 09:30:29

Mayhaps add a system to forgive someone you've cursed (Within' the same life.)

A bit of a fail safe for someone who makes a legitimate mistake and makes amends or people blaming innocents for nefarious purposes.

subria · 2018-07-05 09:48:52

ZCaliber wrote:

Mayhaps add a system to forgive someone you've cursed (Within' the same life.)
A bit of a fail safe for someone who makes a legitimate mistake and makes amends or people blaming innocents for nefarious purposes.

How you know what is mistake and what is crime?

I think we need a signal to know who is newbie. We will not curse them. Maybe a birthmark.

sc0rp · 2018-07-05 10:10:07

ZCaliber wrote:

Mayhaps add a system to forgive someone you've cursed (Within' the same life.)
A bit of a fail safe for someone who makes a legitimate mistake and makes amends or people blaming innocents for nefarious purposes.

Bless to undo your curse or somebody's other. Rate limited and used only to cancel curse during lifetime - no way to stack it upfront.

sc0rp · 2018-07-05 10:12:06

subria wrote:

How you know what is mistake and what is crime?
I think we need a signal to know who is newbie. We will not curse them. Maybe a birthmark.

I think it's enough if curse affects new players less. Either by them starting with higher karma or by hitting them with less points in first X hours of play.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-05 11:56:44)

Kinrany · 2018-07-05 10:16:13

Babies can't curse because of the character limit, can they?

TrustyWay · 2018-07-05 10:17:02

If we can stuck people in the cursed loop I will do it. Nothing better than killing ''bad'' babies all day long. I don't mind karma system, seems pretty easy to avoid for old players.

I never get caught while doing bad things and love to give responsability to others (lies).

It happened to me so many times, before griefing, accuse somebody even if nothing happened. Start doing your ninja shit and the guy gets killed. It happened to me so many times.

The screen play is so small that fooling people is really easy.

If we had bigger screen, most of the problems we have wouldn't be that hard.

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-07-05 10:29:44)

subria · 2018-07-05 10:54:59

Kinrany wrote:

Babies can't curse because of the character limit, can they?

No. Murder very happy if she/he has long name: Daenerys Targaryen. Anyone younger than 25 year old can not curse them. I suggest we have 3 curse per game after 5/25/45 min.

I suggest this:

1. If a bad guy curse 10 other. He take 100 curse point. Other take 10 point/per guy. Bad guy become black guy. But he does not care. He reborn again and curse 10 man. He still a black guy but 10 man get 10 point again. After several game, he make every one become black guy like him. If every one is black, we can not know who is really bad.
So, i think we have only 3 curses per life. We have the first curse after 5 mins. Next after 25 min and next after 45. We only curse one man one time per game.
This will help we control population without blame from new born. Black baby can not curse us too soon.
After 5 mins, baby can work so baby have right to curse.
Three curse after 45 minutes give us time to agains bag guys before we too old.
2. Black guy can not curse.
3. If i curse Ron, add me 10 point curse and Ron 15 point. He can curse back. This will make criminal can not fight back good guy because he alone. He will take more curse point than others.

Last edited by subria (2018-07-05 10:56:14)

sc0rp · 2018-07-05 11:03:04

jasonrohrer wrote:

Maybe you can't keep cursing someone who is already showing up globally as cursed? They have black speech already. Leave them alone.

+1
You will have a lot of prejudice already. He drilled a hole through a disk? Definitely a griefer - curse him. You will never check that he made spindle to stop wasting thread.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, if curses are more limited, you wouldn't necessarily want to waste your curses on them.
If you gain 10 points each time you curse, and only clear 10 points per hour of play, you can't curse more than one person per hour on average without going over yourself. If you gain 20 points each time you curse, you can't curse more than one person every two hours on average.

That's too frequent IMO - once per day seems reasonable. We should aim for curse to be used for exceptional situations. I'd like to make it hard to be used for "He took my basket! Curse him!". I think the best way to rate limit is to require some kind of ritual that will take like 5-10 minutes to perform. You need to hate somebody a lot to want to waste your time like that.

jasonrohrer wrote:

We can set the threshold as high as we want to make it feel just. 100 points too low? Make it 200 then. That's 20 people who though you were a real pain.

Please consider making punishment very light, but exponential for repeated offenders. Like: curse lasts an hours with one day probation. If you get another during probation, it'll last two hours with two days probation, etc. We want to stop serial griefers, not punish harshly something stupid someone does once in a blue moon - that actually adds fun to the gameplay (horse child rapist, anyone?). I definitely don't want some "chilling effect" to stop people trying things like that. It's meant to only stop people that are long term PITA.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-05 11:17:14)

TrustyWay · 2018-07-05 11:08:02

People cursing should get the same curse point too. If he cursed random people who did nothing he will end up with the same ammount of this guy, which seems pretty logic. If many people curse the same then it is ok, he bad guy. Not because he bothered someone but everybody.

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-07-05 11:09:24)

sc0rp · 2018-07-05 11:09:58

TrustyWay wrote:

If we can stuck people in the cursed loop I will do it. Nothing better than killing ''bad'' babies all day long. I don't mind karma system, seems pretty easy to avoid for old players.

Let's make weight of the curse depend on your own karma. The more it's tarnished, the less people care about your opinion. If you're below threshold, your opinion doesn't matter at all.

TrustyWay wrote:

I never get caught while doing bad things and love to give responsability to others (lies).
It happened to me so many times, before griefing, accuse somebody even if nothing happened. Start doing your ninja shit and the guy gets killed. It happened to me so many times.

That's why I want for "punishment" to by very light/short, but exponential for repeated offenders. So you cannot abuse it like that (unless you have a way to stalk somebody across lives - but I'm not aware of any method to do it right now).

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-05 11:10:44)

subria · 2018-07-05 11:14:03

sc0rp wrote:

That's too frequent IMO - once per day seems reasonable. We should aim for curse to be used for exceptional situations. I'd like to make it hard to be used for "He took my basket! Curse him!". I think the best way to rate limit is to require some kind of ritual that will take like 5-10 minutes to perform. You need to hate somebody a lot to want to waste your time like that.

How a griefer destroy a town?
First, he kill a good people. Town lose 1.
We know him do that again. Some one chase him, some one find weapon. Town lose many time.
Child die because not enough food. Some of them is good man. Town lose more.

Griefer destroy a town by make us lose many time. If u make some kind of rituale take 5-10 mins to only curse a griefer, you will destroy town and help griefer more than he can do.

Last edited by subria (2018-07-05 11:14:42)

TrustyWay · 2018-07-05 11:16:50

sc0rp wrote:

Let's make weight of the curse depend on your own karma. The more it's tarnished, the less people care about your opinion. If you're below threshold, your opinion doesn't matter at all.

If we make that plus you get cursed a bit too if you cursed. That could be interesting.

But only depending of your cursed point. Imagine good guy who farmed good point cursing hard somebody.

subria · 2018-07-05 11:26:39

TrustyWay wrote:

People cursing should get the same curse point too. If he cursed random people who did nothing he will end up with the same ammount of this guy, which seems pretty logic. If many people curse the same then it is ok, he bad guy. Not because he bothered someone but everybody.

If we get the same curse point, bad guy will do not curse back because he know bad guy become black as fast as good guy.

If we get less curse point than bad guy, bad guy have 2 choice:
1. He curse to revenge: he does not know who curse him. He will curse any one. This make him become black guy faster.
2. He will not revenge. This is good. Good man take less than bad man. Fair.

sc0rp · 2018-07-05 11:29:01

TrustyWay wrote:

sc0rp wrote:
Let's make weight of the curse depend on your own karma. The more it's tarnished, the less people care about your opinion. If you're below threshold, your opinion doesn't matter at all.
If we make that plus you get cursed a bit too if you cursed. That could be interesting.
But only depending of your cursed point. Imagine good guy who farmed good point cursing hard somebody.

As I wrote in other posts, it shouldn't be possible to farm good karma. I.e. blessing can only undo curse in this lifetime, has no effect on its own.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-05 11:38:58)

sc0rp · 2018-07-05 11:52:59

subria wrote:

sc0rp wrote:
That's too frequent IMO - once per day seems reasonable. We should aim for curse to be used for exceptional situations. I'd like to make it hard to be used for "He took my basket! Curse him!". I think the best way to rate limit is to require some kind of ritual that will take like 5-10 minutes to perform. You need to hate somebody a lot to want to waste your time like that.
How a griefer destroy a town?
First, he kill a good people. Town lose 1.
We know him do that again. Some one chase him, some one find weapon. Town lose many time.
Child die because not enough food. Some of them is good man. Town lose more.
Griefer destroy a town by make us lose many time. If u make some kind of rituale take 5-10 mins to only curse a griefer, you will destroy town and help griefer more than he can do.

I think you have your assumptions wrong. You base frequency of your curses on current level of griefing. But with curse system in place it won't be that common. The whole goal is not to "punish" grieferes, just to deter them.

Ideally, from griefers POV is should look like this: I messed with a lot of people, they've cursed me, I find it really hard to grief for an hour. Once curse wears off I can start griefing again, but I'm on probation. So this time if I grief and people curse me, it will last for a day. If tomorrow I start griefing again, curse will last for a week, etc.

So being griefed by dedicated griefer should be rare occurence. And for fixed price of 5-10 minutes of your time, you can deal larger and larger penalty, depending on how "bad" griefier you stumbled upon is. That may not help that particular town, but will definitely help the whole civilization - your next town has higher chance to be griefer free.

You won't elimintate griefing completely from the game. Anybody still can do stupid crazy shit once in a blue moon. But this just adds spice to the game experience. I only care about stopping people that currently grief all day long, every day. So maybe people on probation should be marked as such. You will be more inclined to spend time to curse them. OTOH it's opens another avenue for abuse, so maybe not. If somebody is being PITA to lot of people, he'll eventually stumble upon someone willing to spend time to curse him.

If you have better idea how to stop cursing people over petty stuff than making it cost some time, please let us know.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-05 12:23:27)

Kinrany · 2018-07-05 12:23:47

I think having to balance the system by manually adjusting parameters is a design smell. It means that the system doesn't actually guarantee good results in any way. At best it can improve the situation on average.

sc0rp · 2018-07-05 12:33:00

Kinrany wrote:

I think having to balance the system by manually adjusting parameters is a design smell. It means that the system doesn't actually guarantee good results in any way. At best it can improve the situation on average.

That's why I'm advocating some kind of exponential effect in the system. We only want to drive away repeated offenders, not harm players that do some stupid random shit once in a time. With low penalty plus exponential in place people can deal harsher and harsher punishments until griefing is curbed to managable level. It should self balance around some equilibrium. If griefing is rare, I won't feel like spending my time to curse somebody. If griefing is rampant and I encounter it almost every game, I'll take time to curse griefers, so I can have some nice games later today or tomorrow.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-05 12:36:26)

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2018-07-05 02:50:03

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#27 2018-07-05 03:54:59

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#28 2018-07-05 04:01:39

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#29 2018-07-05 05:57:42

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#30 2018-07-05 06:17:51

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#31 2018-07-05 09:02:42

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#32 2018-07-05 09:13:14

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#33 2018-07-05 09:28:32

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#34 2018-07-05 09:30:29

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#35 2018-07-05 09:48:52

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#36 2018-07-05 10:10:07

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#37 2018-07-05 10:12:06

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#38 2018-07-05 10:16:13

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#39 2018-07-05 10:17:02

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#40 2018-07-05 10:54:59

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#41 2018-07-05 11:03:04

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#42 2018-07-05 11:08:02

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#43 2018-07-05 11:09:58

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#44 2018-07-05 11:14:03

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#45 2018-07-05 11:16:50

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#46 2018-07-05 11:26:39

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#47 2018-07-05 11:29:01

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#48 2018-07-05 11:52:59

Re: Implementation plan for curse system

#49 2018-07-05 12:23:47

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Re: Implementation plan for curse system

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