taxes

startafight · 2018-07-10 01:47:26

we've had kings, we've had guards. humor me here and think about taxes.

rulers take a certain % of crops from the farmers and distributes them to the guards and other industries that support the kingdom. the king makes sure there is a proper facilitation of resources by ensuring that a certain amount of food goes into reserves. the king can also store some amount of excess in holds for trade.

around yesterday i was born into a town with a neighbor to the north west. my grandmother would threaten them with a knife to make sure they would give her the stuff they wanted. what if she had proclaimed herself queen and taken the stuff from the citizens as a tax?

how would taxes be upheld in a way that ensures the citizens wouldn't rebel?

would it be two bowls of berries, two baskets of carrots, and a basket of corn? is that too much? is that too little?

i dont really know, what do you think about taxes? will we ever get to the point where rulers will start taxing others through threats or bribes? how quickly would a ruler who taxes citizens be killed off? do any of u guys wanna try taxing and let us know how it went?

TheRedBug · 2018-07-10 01:50:43

If the citizen feels a need to be ruled, and see the higher class being helpful, they will gladly hand out their food.

I know i would be the king's personal chef if i see he is a good king

YAHG · 2018-07-10 01:52:51

I just gotta say... good fucking luck LOL...

No one owns anything anyways, you want something on the ground you grab it. You want something bad enough
someones holding/wearing you can stab em for it.

I wish we could have real governance structures, but it is basically impossible to conquer people in this game,
we all just die too fast and they can't guard their items anyways.

Sadly it is just RP.

In most towns you can just sit and eat and be useless, you don't even need a crown..

startafight · 2018-07-10 01:54:02

TheRedBug wrote:

If the citizen feels a need to be ruled, and see the higher class being helpful, they will gladly hand out their food.
I know i would be the king's personal chef if i see he is a good king

the idea of kings seem to come naturally to a lot of people. whenever we get the crown there are always claims of kinghood. basically what im trying to propose here is what if we turn the title of "king" into a role that distributes food through the idea of taxation? i think it could be cool, especially in big towns. i just dont know if it would work and i rarely get lucky enough to be ruler. if any of u guys get a chance u should try it out

YAHG · 2018-07-10 01:56:55

https://archive.org/details/onpoweritsnature00injouv

Is a good book about this sort of thing forming naturally.

TheRedBug · 2018-07-10 01:57:29

I used to be a king in one of the settlement. I used to run around teaching people, redistributing resources around, asking all and everyone about their needs, it was really awesome. The people didnt seem hostile to me. They seemed genuinely happy that i was here trying to help each and everyone.

People do not rebel against their government if their government do not abuse of their powers and genuinely cares about their people.

YAHG · 2018-07-10 02:02:22

You can do the administrator role easily enough and it is very effective. As a woman in medium sized/+ camp I will evaluate the state
of the city and delegate my babies to tasks as I interview them for skills.

If you wanted a natural growth of such a role into a town wide position there isn't much reason why it couldn't work.

As far as resource director goes, it is not feasible you simply can't communicate well enough to keep track of it all and do a command economy.
Not to mention that most people ignore your orders and you do not have the force to make people comply on any real scale.

zennyrpg · 2018-07-10 02:28:00

If someone wheeled around a cart of pies and communicated what every one needs (baker needs more mutton pls feed sheep, we need a third hoe for the far farm, need an iron scout volunteer, oh iron scout? here's an f-ing pack so you don't starve) it would be great. Seriously, I am down to be ruled if we could get any level of coordination and organization.

bENdI · 2018-07-10 02:31:32

oh god, a class system????
hell no

i like my currencyless villages

TheRedBug · 2018-07-10 02:51:49

bENdI wrote:

oh god, a class system????
hell no
i like my currencyless villages

Class and currency is two completely different things

sc0rp · 2018-07-10 09:28:41

YAHG wrote:

https://archive.org/details/onpoweritsnature00injouv
Is a good book about this sort of thing forming naturally.

Any ideas that that you think we can apply right now in OHOL?

FeverDog · 2018-07-10 10:00:13

zennyrpg wrote:

If someone wheeled around a cart of pies and communicated what every one needs (baker needs more mutton pls feed sheep, we need a third hoe for the far farm, need an iron scout volunteer, oh iron scout? here's an f-ing pack so you don't starve) it would be great. Seriously, I am down to be ruled if we could get any level of coordination and organization.

A town crier.

OYE OYE! WE NEED MORE SOIL! OYE OYE!

sc0rp · 2018-07-10 10:11:23

bENdI wrote:

oh god, a class system????
hell no
i like my currencyless villages

Now you have a huge problem coping with single lone griefer. Just wait for full scale warfare, when coordinated enemy will come and behead all your family. You'll begging for powerful king, warrior class and taxes to fund it all to defend your little berry field.

YAHG · 2018-07-10 17:21:54

sc0rp wrote:

YAHG wrote:
https://archive.org/details/onpoweritsnature00injouv
Is a good book about this sort of thing forming naturally.
Any ideas that that you think we can apply right now in OHOL?

Town organizer is the closest thing to a government force we could get right now.
You would need to do a good job for people to get in the habit of listening to the organizer.
You don't want to worry about heritability of office or any of that nonsense if you have no legitimacy.
You would need the idea itself to have legitimacy not you personally, people need to think that it is a
good thing to listen to the leader and to have one in the first place.

It is usually only after the position exists that "it" can start to work on eroding the other power structures.
(mostly just individuals right now so most of the historical strategies will not work as well)

sc0rp wrote:

Just wait for full scale warfare, when coordinated enemy will come and behead all your family. You'll begging for powerful king, warrior class and taxes to fund it all to defend your little berry field.

One of the problems with the Marauding bands killing your whole town is them even finding it.
Then once they kill you, you are their babies.
Then the whole thing is CRAZY expensive in resources, even if you don't count the reusable knives and packs.
Then you don't really get anything when you win, as you need all the infrastructure to even arm your camp in the first place.

The king does not exist to defend the serf but usually grows out of the leader of the warband. The warband usually grows
out of the need for women as in more stable societies the elder/shaman class tend to accumulate all the power/women. We don't
even really have Men in this game we just have sterile drones and fertile women.

The idea of the king as the defender of the land is interesting as it is an attempt to curtail the power of the king, it sort
of gave way into the king being the ruler of the land. Much in the same way that the king ruled by the grace of God,
transformed into the king is appointed to rule by the providence of God and thus can not be questioned (this also subordinates
the church to the king where previously the church tried to do the reverse..).

A more modern example would be in the US constitution where the power to "regulate commerce" as in the States can
not impose tariffs upon each other and other assorted economic warfare, has warped into the power to 'Control Commerce'.

From protect to control..

The current situation in OHOL is interesting it is similar to the warband "state" already and almost all attempts to push it
into an even slightly more centralized state such as european-feudal/iqta/satrap are failing.

Something to ponder is whether the failure is because there isn't enough spare resources to fund the administration?
Is the one hour life span too short to train an heir to have any sort of advantage over rivals?
Is there EVEN a suitability boost to being the ruler? There are no heritable traits in this game at all other than stuff like your last name.
Are the individuals/band-members too equal to play against each other to form a base to sit atop and later crush out?

Hard to say.

Currently we have an extremely weak matriarchy, that can only barely hang on to any shred of power because it can starve it's children,
And even THAT power can be checked by other clan members.

How many times have you listened to someone in game because they were your Mother... LOL

YAHG · 2018-07-10 17:40:38

surviability boost to being the ruler*

Lum · 2018-07-10 19:01:36

Taxes imply property anyway, which doesn't exist in this game.

YAHG · 2018-07-10 19:04:37

Lum wrote:

Taxes imply property anyway, which doesn't exist in this game.

Very true.

Spockulon · 2018-07-10 19:15:26

FeverDog wrote:

zennyrpg wrote:
If someone wheeled around a cart of pies and communicated what every one needs (baker needs more mutton pls feed sheep, we need a third hoe for the far farm, need an iron scout volunteer, oh iron scout? here's an f-ing pack so you don't starve) it would be great. Seriously, I am down to be ruled if we could get any level of coordination and organization.
A town crier.
OYE OYE! WE NEED MORE SOIL! OYE OYE!

Yes! Love the town crier idea. Maybe we need a craftable small handbell to ring for announcements and the like, to grab peoples' attention.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-07-10 01:47:26

taxes

#2 2018-07-10 01:50:43

Re: taxes

#3 2018-07-10 01:52:51

Re: taxes

#4 2018-07-10 01:54:02

Re: taxes

#5 2018-07-10 01:56:55

Re: taxes

#6 2018-07-10 01:57:29

Re: taxes

#7 2018-07-10 02:02:22

Re: taxes

#8 2018-07-10 02:28:00

Re: taxes

#9 2018-07-10 02:31:32

Re: taxes

#10 2018-07-10 02:51:49

Re: taxes

#11 2018-07-10 09:28:41

Re: taxes

#12 2018-07-10 10:00:13

Re: taxes

#13 2018-07-10 10:11:23

Re: taxes

#14 2018-07-10 17:21:54

Re: taxes

#15 2018-07-10 17:40:38

Re: taxes

#16 2018-07-10 19:01:36

Re: taxes

#17 2018-07-10 19:04:37

Re: taxes

#18 2018-07-10 19:15:26

Re: taxes

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