Curses OP - A PRISON PROPOSAL

YAHG · 2018-07-12 01:36:31

There is no way to move someone who does not want to be moved in this game.

pein · 2018-07-12 05:23:58

give him one wheat, one carrot seed, one basket of soil and some water, a sheep and let him live in a doubble room
or just water berry and some soil, empty bowls, let him out for 10 full bowls

Kerbal weapons inc. · 2018-07-12 10:14:10

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

sc0rp wrote:
Neo wrote:
Interesting idea but wouldn't this ultimately be a waste. You're essentially letting griefers live off there curses while not needing to work and having to feed them.
There are plenty of wasteful things that people still do. Dyed clothes? Roses? Stew?
J/K Stew is crucial.
But maybe if we add some forced labor... Hmm... We just cannot overdo it - they still have a choice of being Eve.
I can't think of anything you could have someone do while confined to a single building other than perhaps smith. but that seems like a terrible idea. Perhaps baking?

Well we can ask Jason to add handcuffs to force them to do other things outside like shearing sheep

sc0rp · 2018-07-12 10:50:28

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

I can't think of anything you could have someone do while confined to a single building other than perhaps smith. but that seems like a terrible idea. Perhaps baking?

Baking is too griefable - they can eat most of it themselves, every pip. Hard to spot too.

But they can run milkweed plantation there and make ropes. There's never enough milkweed around and nobody seems to stick planting it long term. Somebody will need to bring them soil, though. Water can be handled by having a well inside. Row of carrots or two to feed themselves.

pein, may I you ask you to design a prison cell, that will function well for this? Can soil and rope go into marked grave or we need boxes for it?

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-12 15:18:10)

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 13:37:05

Milkweed is a baller idea. It could totally work. Instead of individual cells, make the whole building one large cell. Put the airlock at the entrance, and employ a guard to bring the goods in and out and kill any who seem up to no good. They have something to do better than being eve (arguably) and they provide an often vastly needed service.

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 15:37:19

Also, I think handcuffs are a fantastic idea that Jason should totally add. Or at least bindings of some sort that allow others to move you as if you were a baby, and slow your movement. You can still jump out if someone is tugging you, but you can't feed yourself and you are slow to move.

sc0rp · 2018-07-12 15:39:06

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

Also, I think handcuffs are a fantastic idea that Jason should totally add. Or at least bindings of some sort that allow others to move you as if you were a baby, and slow your movement. You can still jump out if someone is tugging you, but you can't feed yourself and you are slow to move.

The problem with that was, that griefers could use it too. But if you can put them only on cursed...

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 15:44:56

Yes, griefers could abuse cuffs. But what if there is an unmarked who's griefing? Cuff em, pull them away, question them, kill them. If they keep trying to escape, let em. They'll run away and die if you can't feed yourself. If a griefer cuffs you, run into your town and get fed and released. As long as you have a civ (and cuffs would be in the steel tech, so there'd likely be some people) a griefer could hardly abuse it effectively.

sc0rp · 2018-07-12 15:48:21

pein wrote:

give him one wheat, one carrot seed, one basket of soil and some water, a sheep and let him live in a doubble room
or just water berry and some soil, empty bowls, let him out for 10 full bowls

Oh, an extended pen idea - a reeducation center next to sheep. But task may be too complicated for convicts.

sc0rp · 2018-07-12 15:51:32

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

If a griefer cuffs you, run into your town and get fed and released.

You must be new here Of course he'll run after you, screaming that you are the griefer. It's hard to prove it either way.

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 15:56:35

sc0rp wrote:

OminousBladeBlank wrote:
If a griefer cuffs you, run into your town and get fed and released.
You must be new here Of course he'll run after you, screaming that you are the griefer. It's hard to prove it either way.

I've killed many griefers with few witnesses, and about 80% of the time can convince the town I did them a service. If people don't know you're a good guy, you didn't work hard enough. If you can't talk them into freeing you, you have no social skills. I am rather new, but I'm good at the social aspect of the game.

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 16:08:22

sc0rp wrote:

pein wrote:
give him one wheat, one carrot seed, one basket of soil and some water, a sheep and let him live in a doubble room
or just water berry and some soil, empty bowls, let him out for 10 full bowls
Oh, an extended pen idea - a reeducation center next to sheep. But task may be too complicated for convicts.

Yes, I have no real evidence to back this up, but I assume griefers tend to suck at the game.

sc0rp · 2018-07-12 16:16:12

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

I've killed many griefers with few witnesses, and about 80% of the time can convince the town I did them a service. If people don't know you're a good guy, you didn't work hard enough. If you can't talk them into freeing you, you have no social skills. I am rather new, but I'm good at the social aspect of the game.

I'm just saying that it need to be carefully designed and all obvious loopholes for griefers fixed before implementation. You go with bowl for a water and come back with handcuffs kind of thing. Or putting handcuffs on guard and doctor, before stabbing somebody.

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 16:22:21

sc0rp wrote:

OminousBladeBlank wrote:
I've killed many griefers with few witnesses, and about 80% of the time can convince the town I did them a service. If people don't know you're a good guy, you didn't work hard enough. If you can't talk them into freeing you, you have no social skills. I am rather new, but I'm good at the social aspect of the game.
I'm just saying that it need to be carefully designed and all obvious loopholes for griefers fixed before implementation. You go with bowl for a water and come back with handcuffs kind of thing. Or putting handcuffs on guard and doctor, before stabbing somebody.

Not a bad point. However, if all it took were a few hits from a file to break them, then this is a rather easy counter to a griefer trying to hinder relief efforts, yet still impossible for a lone griefer to avoid the cuffs without an accomplice.

sc0rp · 2018-07-12 16:30:53

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

Not a bad point. However, if all it took were a few hits from a file to break them, then this is a rather easy counter to a griefer trying to hinder relief efforts, yet still impossible for a lone griefer to avoid the cuffs without an accomplice.

Then steal the file first, put handcufs on guard and doc, stab somebody. Before anything can be done, victim is dead and murderer off the cooldown. A little less coordination from rest of the folks and both doc and guard starved as well. Pick the knifes. Now the whole town is totally helpless.

You've designed a griefer's paradise. And that's for a single griefer. If they pair up, I'm sure there are many more options.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-12 16:33:44)

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 16:37:55

sc0rp wrote:

OminousBladeBlank wrote:
Not a bad point. However, if all it took were a few hits from a file to break them, then this is a rather easy counter to a griefer trying to hinder relief efforts, yet still impossible for a lone griefer to avoid the cuffs without an accomplice.
Then steal the file first, put handcufs on guard and doc, stab somebody. Before anything can be done, victim is dead and murderer off the cooldown. A little less coordination from rest of the folks and both doc and guard starved as well. Pick the knifes. Now the whole town is totally helpless. You've designed a griefer's paradise. And that's for a single griefer.

If a griefer goes to the trouble of acquiring enough sets of handcuffs to handcuff all weapon holders, steal all the files, remove any means of creating new files, handcuffs the only people able to stop him, and also gets a knife and enough food Management to do as you say, I'll quote pein "you deserve it"

I think this task would be easily spotted Midway through by any decent player. It'd be an awfully conspicuous setup without a town being essentially braindead.

Still, not a bad point

Not to mention: people complain that there's nothing to do in A big town. Eventually as the tech tree grows, towns will get bigger. Perhaps it's soon time to have multiple guards be a more common thing.

Also, having one doctor isn't something I've noticed. Most big towns will have a dedicated doc, but if he is killed or tied up, other people can easily use the meds instead. If there's only one ball of thread, what the heck is going on?

Griefers will always be able to use the tech against a civ. But with meds and now curses, I believe it will become more challenging. If someone is running around cuffing well known useful members, that's noteworthy to anyone.

Last edited by OminousBladeBlank (2018-07-12 16:55:51)

sc0rp · 2018-07-12 17:02:04

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

If a griefer goes to the trouble of acquiring enough sets of handcuffs to handcuff all weapon holders

Just handcuffing one of them still helps him a lot.

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

steal all the files

1 click.

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

remove any means of creating new files

Take the bellows.

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

handcuffs the only people able to stop him

It's pretty obvious who has a knife.

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

and also gets a knife and enough food Management to do as you say

There are people doing it all day long, every day:
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 851#p22851

You are just making their task simplier. With handcuffs it wouldn't take him three runs to kill the whole town. One would be enough.

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

I'll quote pein "you deserve it"

You don't. Griefers have advantage of surprise. They have a lot of more information than defenders. And they train to do it all day long. Town needs to defend with people that have to figure out on the fly what's happening. And they see it rarely, so it's not obvious what they should do to counter.

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

I think this task would be easily spotted Midway through by any decent player.

IF decent player is around griefer. But usually they're doing usefull stuff. Making compost, carts, building wells, going for iron.

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

It'd be an awfully conspicuous setup without a town being essentially braindead.

It's extremely hard to spot, unless you exactly know what to look for.

Ok, lets skip this topic. And go back to prison/plantation idea. Handcuffs are good, if you can put them only on cursed people. If you can put them on anybody, they're a nightmare to get balance right.

Last edited by sc0rp (2018-07-12 17:06:23)

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 17:11:46

I think that the plantation is a great idea and very viable without cuffs, indeed. I'd still be shocked if restraints are never added to the game. I think the fact we didn't skip the topic is beneficial to anyone reading this. I think it was very informative to have made the points you did. Just remember, eventually most griefers will be marked. As long as they are named, it will become more and more difficult for them to continue their training. Still, perhaps you are correct in that the only viable solution to creating cuffs which cannot be abused at all by griefers is keeping them for slaves - I mean the marked...

Here's my final point until there's a new topic all about cuffs: if griefers have no agency to grief, the game loses some flavor. I agree that griefers have a distinct advantage, but this will not always be the case.

Last edited by OminousBladeBlank (2018-07-12 17:17:28)

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 17:49:11

Pein, you made an interesting remark earlier that seemed to be essentially creating a self sufficient farm in this prison. Do you stand by this, or are you subscribing to the idea of milkweed - or a combination? The size of the building should be kept in mind. I haven't found huge buildings to be too common place, as stone is so cumbersome and Adobe decays. Also, a fantastic griefing method in a prison town would be to find a way to release prisoners...

YAHG · 2018-07-12 18:06:07

I guess you COULD threaten to stab people to get them to go into jail. Works irl.

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 18:11:31

YAHG wrote:

I guess you COULD threaten to stab people to get them to go into jail. Works irl.

The reason I suggest tossing babies in there is because an adult can self feed. If they just run away, they can survive in the wilderness. A baby cannot. Babies really don't get a choice: they die, or go in the cell. An adult could run.

YAHG · 2018-07-12 18:20:41

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

YAHG wrote:
I guess you COULD threaten to stab people to get them to go into jail. Works irl.
The reason I suggest tossing babies in there is because an adult can self feed. If they just run away, they can survive in the wilderness. A baby cannot. Babies really don't get a choice: they die, or go in the cell. An adult could run.

But it is so simple to bypass curses.
Put mouse where respawn button is.
Start autoclicker on like 2 min timer, go to sleep.
Wake up.
No longer cursed.

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 18:27:10

YAHG wrote:

But it is so simple to bypass curses.
Put mouse where respawn button is.
Start autoclicker on like 2 min timer, go to sleep.
Wake up.
No longer cursed.

Well, there's nothing we can do about that... Maybe Jason can code in a fix - like requiring a cursed person to actually live past the baby stage in order for the time to count.

YAHG · 2018-07-12 18:34:44

OminousBladeBlank wrote:

YAHG wrote:
But it is so simple to bypass curses.
Put mouse where respawn button is.
Start autoclicker on like 2 min timer, go to sleep.
Wake up.
No longer cursed.
Well, there's nothing we can do about that... Maybe Jason can code in a fix - like requiring a cursed person to actually live past the baby stage in order for the time to count.

Most the time in that scenario would be as Eve, if the click timer is shorter then they can avoid naming.

OminousBladeBlank · 2018-07-12 18:41:11

YAHG wrote:

OminousBladeBlank wrote:
YAHG wrote:
But it is so simple to bypass curses.
Put mouse where respawn button is.
Start autoclicker on like 2 min timer, go to sleep.
Wake up.
No longer cursed.
Well, there's nothing we can do about that... Maybe Jason can code in a fix - like requiring a cursed person to actually live past the baby stage in order for the time to count.
Most the time in that scenario would be as Eve, if the click timer is shorter then they can avoid naming.

I'm afraid I don't understand your point. Saying they need to live for 5 minutes before their time counts ends up being negligible to the ones playing out their curse, and it makes the autoclick strategy useless. If they only live for a minute as a baby anyway, that hardly makes a difference, and if they autoclick they won't live long enough regardless. What's the downside to this rule? It makes prisons even more viable!

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