Female/Male Imbalance

Baron X · 2018-03-11 01:23:51

Okay, so this has become readily apparent as an issue in the game. The problem is as follows - females in OHOL are objectively better than males meaning in a game where resources are thin and females can reproduce asexually it is actually a good idea to throw out all the males because they can't reproduce and bring literally nothing extra to the table to make up for this lack of utility. This means that 50% of the time you spawn in you are useless, and that feels fucking bad, man.

Some fixes we brainstormed in Discord to address the issue:

Men might have some perk, like increased combat effectiveness, reduced hunger, increased carrying capacity or something, various other options and please post any ideas you have as well as means to address this.

I am sure you all have noticed this, and it will NOT stop until there is a solution implemented, the future will only become more and more disadvantageous as a string of male children can doom a society, that feels BAD from a gameplay perspective, and the males don't even do anything to warrant their presence, it's a strange twist of fate compared to reality where the opposite is true in terms of survival and for the purpose of improving the game this must be addressed. Men need a counterbalance as women can choose to ignore their babies and literally have no drawbacks for doing so makling them undeniably superior in this game currently.

Looking forward to the solutions proposed, great game Jason!

Tebe · 2018-03-11 01:28:34

Males already have a major built-in perk: They don't give birth and therefore are never burdened with the costs - in time and resources - of rearing children.

I'm thrilled when I'm born a male to be honest, because it means I'll be able to get a lot done on projects. If I'm going to be giving birth a lot, the children become the project.

Baron X · 2018-03-11 01:31:55

You can just ignore the baby as most do when playing an Eve, that means literally no cost whatsoever, the most you can say is that they have some bones to deal with but even that isn't as bad as being a male and literally not being able to carry on your civilization through progeny. You might get a lot done but you do nothing for the next generation, you can farm but a female could do that as well, and allthewhile the female can produce more offspring who can aid in tending to farms and gathering resources, as a male you are always and forever (for an hour) going to be alone, and you get nothing in exchange for that very glaring weakness.

ryanb · 2018-03-11 01:37:06

Does the act of giving birth lower your food (not just breast feeding)? If so then males have that advantage.

I don't like to abandon children so being a man is fun.

Portager · 2018-03-11 01:38:06

I am not sure that males are as big of a hindrance as people seem to think. They can be used as the workhorse class of a society, since you do not have to worry about nursing children or moving far away from camp as a male. Males make good trappers and hunters and they also are good gatherers of seed, water and soil for the farm. If a society has too many females, then it will also overpopulate much quicker.

The problem is that when a village starts to spawn tons of kids in short succession, some kids will inevitably be neglected and die. If the females are neglected, then this is not good at all for the village. There needs to be at least one female baby that is taken care of in each village to insure survival.

Baron X · 2018-03-11 01:48:53

As far as I am aware I don't think there is any penalty whatsoever for giving birth which makes sense given that it's involuntary but that means that there is literally no cost for being female and only advantages since their reproduction is asexual.

A female could just as well travel away from the base and hunt and trap while ignoring children along the way. Sure, you might feel bad dooming your progeny to starvation but it is vastly more advantageous to do so then to continually be raising unnecessary offspring whom you do not have the resources or capacity to support.

That is my whole point in a game where females can reproduce asexually and receive no drawbacks for that ability when neglecting their offspring the end result is that one sex is just better than the other from a min-max perspective.

Baron X · 2018-03-11 01:51:06

Here's a good question to ask yourself to prove my point. When was the last time you were born as a female and were rejected because a well run tribe specifically wanted / needed males?

Left4twenty · 2018-03-11 02:00:47

Is too lewd to incorporate a mechanic and some cue for when a population reaches the 50/50 male/female that some manner of actual sexual rather than asexual reproduction happens? Thereby giving players control over reproduction and giving males value

DeadEye · 2018-03-11 02:02:53

Completely agree with you on all the points Baron. I've played an Eve, or a girl, quite a bit in the game. Even when I spawn as a male I already have less fun knowing that I can do very little to help a society continue on through the generations.

By the same token, when I have male babies I almost always let them die because if a girl or two spawn I will need the resources to care for them.

They need to be less of a burden on a society for them to have any real place. The comment made about a male being able to go out and do more is completely false. As soon as your village reaches capacity the women just let babies die and do the same job the males do except they have the option of bringing more life into the soc.

They need to, at the minimum, have a hardier constitution than females.

Portager · 2018-03-11 02:57:53

I see your point Baron, not many people do choose to save boys over girls, but I respectfully disagree. Women are valued more than men, but men have their worth.

My last spawn was a male, and I tended the farm, built fires and kilns, and sewed clothing together. I was able to do all of this because I had more free time available, and did not have to breastfeed children or stay near the fire constantly. I taught a younger boy to do the same before I self-exiled to conserve our food at age 56. Males do have value, it is up to villages and eves to utilize them to their fullest potential.

The only time a male is a very bad thing, is if he is the only surviving child of a village of eve. Even in this situation, the male can still work hard to build a camp for the next generation of eves.

Last edited by Portager (2018-03-11 03:00:45)

ned · 2018-03-11 03:24:02

You newer whipper-snappers around here haven't seen our previous discussions about this.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=293
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=320
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=191

The easiest solution I see to this is that an Eve only gives birth when in the presence of an Adam. Meanwhile, grown Eves and Adams spawn in equal proportions, preferably in pairs together.

asterlea · 2018-03-11 03:48:50

Baron X wrote:

Here's a good question to ask yourself to prove my point. When was the last time you were born as a female and were rejected because a well run tribe specifically wanted / needed males?

The last game I just left was refusing any new females because they were putting a strain on the population when they came of age and started having babies all over the place. Males were allowed. The one daughter rule is very common for this exact reason. It's included as one of the major Tenets, in fact.

As far as I am aware I don't think there is any penalty whatsoever for giving birth

There was originally a big calorie expense for having a baby, but it was removed. Jason has said that he plans to add it back slowly over time, though.

A female could just as well travel away from the base and hunt and trap while ignoring children along the way.

Abandoning kids does not help with continuing the generations, so I don't understand why males are bad if the solution to not wanting to raise children is to just not do it. If it's so important you need to do it. If it's not important and you don't have to do it, then what's the complaint?

as a male you are always and forever (for an hour) going to be alone

How are you alone as a male? You can only exist as a male if you are born to another player. Help your mom and siblings, having babies is not the only way to help ensure the survival of the next generation.

you might get a lot done but you do nothing for the next generation, you can farm but a female could do that as well

Farming is not the only thing to do other than having babies. There is baking, carpentry, smithing, pottery, trapping, hunting, tailoring, composting, well-making, animal husbandry, knitting, wool dying, scavenging/gathering, and more to come as the game continues to be updated weekly.

In a recent game as a male I was able to get a lot done, making a good back-up of compost, building a cistern (and learning how to do it for the first time), and teaching a couple of others (both of which happened to be male as well) how to continue my work when I was gone, and I certainly didn't feel like I was alone or worse for the village at all. Almost every time I've had a chance to learn something I didn't know before it was because I was male and had more time and energy to spend on things that weren't immediate necessities.

Finally, you will only be this character for an hour, max, and you will have experiences as both genders as you play. Sometimes you will have to deal with having children, sometimes you won't. If you only prefer one kind of play, that's fine, but plenty of people have different preferences. Females have children whether they want them or not, males don't have them whether they want them or not. That is the balance.

Last edited by asterlea (2018-03-11 03:53:54)

Phate · 2018-03-11 04:43:21

It use to be fun being a female before the patch, now its such a burden.
I mean before the patch I would literally raise all ten kids, and often when food was thin,
go live in the wild near bushes to raise the kids without hurting the town's supply.

But now, you literally get to pick one or two kids to let live, and the rest die.

Sucks from a game play aspect as the mom and as the new baby now.

The fun of being a mom has been sapped out of the game, as you can't raise you kids,
you have to constantly be working as they sit by the fire.

Portager · 2018-03-11 06:22:38

Phate wrote:

It use to be fun being a female before the patch, now its such a burden.
I mean before the patch I would literally raise all ten kids, and often when food was thin,
go live in the wild near bushes to raise the kids without hurting the town's supply.
But now, you literally get to pick one or two kids to let live, and the rest die.
Sucks from a game play aspect as the mom and as the new baby now.
The fun of being a mom has been sapped out of the game, as you can't raise you kids,
you have to constantly be working as they sit by the fire.

One big problem of this, is that often you spend all that time raising a child to adolescence, only to have them randomly die.

The worst is when you are nearing old age, and your last kid dies of hunger when there are plenty of carrots to be had.

sticks223 · 2018-03-11 06:49:21

I think the gameplay is very asymmetrical between men and women but I've never spawned as a male and thought "aw man that sucks". It just means I'll play the game a little differently. For example my last life was spent almost entirely alone as a male just keeping my base tended and making sure everything future generations could ever need was available. Once it was well stocked with seeds and carrots I went out and found some people which I brought to my base and showed them where everything was before dying of old age.

So being able to single handedly set up a farm for the next generation to use instead of worrying about babies your entire life is definitely a benefit to others, when you're a female you usually just find the first farm thats already going and stay there while nursing babies.

Edit: In retrospect I guess I wasn't really clear about the "playing as a female and just letting all your babies die" part. If you're just going to let all your babies die then you might as well just get yourself killed if you spawn as a female and wait to spawn as male instead because thats clearly what you want to play as.

The way I see it when I spawn as a female I take care of babies and when I spawn as a male I help keep the females fed so they can keep taking care of babies, both are just as important.

Last edited by sticks223 (2018-03-11 07:33:11)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-03-11 01:23:51

Female/Male Imbalance

#2 2018-03-11 01:28:34

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#3 2018-03-11 01:31:55

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#4 2018-03-11 01:37:06

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#5 2018-03-11 01:38:06

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#6 2018-03-11 01:48:53

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#7 2018-03-11 01:51:06

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#8 2018-03-11 02:00:47

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#9 2018-03-11 02:02:53

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#10 2018-03-11 02:57:53

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#11 2018-03-11 03:24:02

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#12 2018-03-11 03:48:50

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#13 2018-03-11 04:43:21

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#14 2018-03-11 06:22:38

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

#15 2018-03-11 06:49:21

Re: Female/Male Imbalance

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