Anti Grief Ideas

Sassbre · 2018-08-15 05:17:32

* Multiple stabs required to kill a victim - maybe 1 stab for babies 2 stabs for adolescent and 3 for an adult maybe downhill again 2 for first elder stage and 1 for last stage. This gives a response time to alert town of murderers, and lets the knife tool actually be used as the tool it was intended to be, also allows for accidental stabs sometimes people just walk right in front of you as you try put it away or use it to cut/butter bread misclicks happen especially with lag.

* Armour - Maybe with the Big Logs players can carve and make wooden shields by adding a hilt or sow it to a leather shirt to make for plated armour, the wood plate will break after one strike from a knife or bow protecting victims, then can add a higher tier with iron make steel armour/shield maybe gives 1 extra strike and blunts the blade which needs to be sharpened with file to fix. Make it you can't wield weapons with shield, and steel armour makes you slower, or maybe just not be able to wield armour and weapons at all together. Enough people would have to deem you a threat to strike you multiple times to break armour then kill you.

* Duel Options - a way to have a one on one fight with another person to settle small disputes which often turns into a fatal stabbing/shooting and a wild town drama could be as simple as someone steals your resources/items without asking, takes over your farm plots, decides to interfere with your building, runs of with your child. Maybe we could make boxing gloves with leather or something and the looser gets some sort of penalty idk.

Anyone has any other ideas to add

Last edited by Sassbre (2018-08-15 05:21:12)

Matbat · 2018-08-15 08:01:44

As morbid as it sounds I like the idea of having to stab someone multiple times to kill them, maybe it can work by chance wherein you only get killer debuff when you actually get them to the point where they only have 40 seconds to live but you have to slash them multiple times (slashes only occur if player is running) unless they're standing still and you stab them in the chest/back. I't make choosing the be a murderer a whole lot more gruesome and less appealing.
Along that line we could have chance bow attacks too where a player could be instantly killed if shot in the head by an arrow (if the person aims directly for the head with cursor).

I think we'll never see my particular suggestion, but who knows maybe jason will add something spooky for halloween.

Last edited by Matbat (2018-08-15 08:02:15)

Neo · 2018-08-15 08:26:47

I don't think most of this is needed, haven't seen any major killing/griefing for awhile. Victims usually get healed in big towns and it's fairly easy to get a kill on the murderer while they are slowed.

Last edited by Neo (2018-08-15 08:34:46)

marsrider · 2018-08-15 08:35:07

Neo, there is a lot of killing, just yesterday one idiot ruined a 23 generation line by killing off all women. This is needed. Badly.

subria · 2018-08-15 12:37:37

1. Multiple stab: griefer can make macro to kill you very fast before u stab him. Except next stab need wait delay time.
2. Armor: good for griefer because they use all time to make weapon and armor. We too busy to work.
3. Duel option: not good. If griefer lose, he will reborn and duel again.

AltyBagU · 2018-08-15 18:35:14

Maybe a ban option if you rack up 30+ curses because that would be insane if you have that many curses on you and your still griefing. I don't think there is any real good way to limit how you kill someone but to set some sort of deterrent from people doing that. If you are able to play like a few lives with no problem but one of them has a griefer then that's not too bad.

I say run and make a bow and arrow and get revange or just curse them idk..

CynderR · 2018-08-15 19:44:47

Ship griefers off to a grief-only server. One where all the doors have rose bushes in front, all trees are cut, all bears are free and where they can finally feel at home.

LaughAtlantis · 2018-08-15 19:57:05

I like the idea of multiple stab wounds, but if that's not possible due to game mechanics, let's try punishment.

You stab another *person*, you automatically die. AND you get black text for the next ten hours. No "other people have to curse you"... it just happens.

That would also cut down on the vengeance killings.

Star · 2018-08-15 20:48:45

LaughAtlantis wrote:

I like the idea of multiple stab wounds, but if that's not possible due to game mechanics, let's try punishment.
You stab another *person*, you automatically die. AND you get black text for the next ten hours. No "other people have to curse you"... it just happens.
That would also cut down on the vengeance killings.

What if you were killing a griefer? Or killing a cursed person? Accidental killings?

Innocent people would be stuck.

If you did make a certain number of times you stab, you could be a guard.

Booklat1 · 2018-08-15 21:24:13

best anti-grief idea is to read the how to kill guide tbh

AltyBagU · 2018-08-16 00:28:52

LaughAtlantis wrote:

I like the idea of multiple stab wounds, but if that's not possible due to game mechanics, let's try punishment.
You stab another *person*, you automatically die. AND you get black text for the next ten hours. No "other people have to curse you"... it just happens.
That would also cut down on the vengeance killings.

People can grief more then just killing. They can kill all your sheep, set all the fires, throw away all the items, eat all the food. So if this happen that mean's one guy that has to kill them to stop them must be automatically punished by doing good from stopping a bad guy? that's legitimately retarded.

Auner · 2018-08-16 02:29:40

To be honest, I really like the curse system, in that it puts the decision of who to curse in the hands of the players. It being limited to an hour of game play forces the person cursing the individual to be wise about their decisions.

I honestly haven't seen sheep mentality hit over 3-4 people in a village, most players seem to wait til they see it for themselves or are killed. Generally, good people can make good decisions- and we have a lot of good people that play this game (give or take some of you on these forums lol)

So here's a crazy idea Why not have a crafted-wearable item which if worn, you cannot pick up a knife or weapon- or carts, nor can you wear a backpack! It forces the player to give up power in the game-- and in return you become what would be akin to a 'medicine man' in tribal times. This 'medicine man' power would allow the player wearing said item would be-able to heal.

Now, not being a fan of 'honky-dory' endings all the time- so maybe putting a catch in of a cool-down time in how often you can use the ability.

There should be a note-able relationship with this item and weapons- if you have even touched a knife or a bow in your in-game-life, you cannot pick up the +healing item. And if you once held/wore the item, but then picked up a weapon--- both scenarios will render you 10 curses worth of shade.

The item could be a jade crown or a highly detailed cape of some sort or something on the blue or purple shade to make it really stand out

carbon · 2018-08-16 03:16:49

None of the new suggestions seem convincing... Despite it being rather crude, I also think that killing is the most efficient option we have in the current build.

pein · 2018-08-16 08:10:45

killing is not griefing
maybe you are the griefer without knowing it

killing was meant to be anti griefing

was a lot of talk about it but anything that helps the defender, helps the attacker
its not a fighting system, its just a point and click system

i could imagine something like a parry system, and a shield useable once, or higher quality for 3 maybe

one person shouldnt be able to kill a city
you prepare for it
more backpacks, knifes
enclosed rooms or just main area for newbies
pads i multiple hidden places, multiple needle and thread
fire going one spot

if a killer is higher skilled then of course you struggle but its so easy to kill on slowdown, even too easy
and most kills are for the gear or for lollz

Anigamer · 2018-08-16 11:33:11

Auner wrote:

To be honest, I really like the curse system, in that it puts the decision of who to curse in the hands of the players. It being limited to an hour of game play forces the person cursing the individual to be wise about their decisions.
I honestly haven't seen sheep mentality hit over 3-4 people in a village, most players seem to wait til they see it for themselves or are killed. Generally, good people can make good decisions- and we have a lot of good people that play this game (give or take some of you on these forums lol)
So here's a crazy idea Why not have a crafted-wearable item which if worn, you cannot pick up a knife or weapon- or carts, nor can you wear a backpack! It forces the player to give up power in the game-- and in return you become what would be akin to a 'medicine man' in tribal times. This 'medicine man' power would allow the player wearing said item would be-able to heal.
Now, not being a fan of 'honky-dory' endings all the time- so maybe putting a catch in of a cool-down time in how often you can use the ability.
There should be a note-able relationship with this item and weapons- if you have even touched a knife or a bow in your in-game-life, you cannot pick up the +healing item. And if you once held/wore the item, but then picked up a weapon--- both scenarios will render you 10 curses worth of shade.
The item could be a jade crown or a highly detailed cape of some sort or something on the blue or purple shade to make it really stand out

Quite a stupid idea because you need knife to hunt and kill animals and the same with the bow

Redram · 2018-08-16 14:12:10

I think it'd be good if further anti-griefing methods should support other aspects of the game as well, and be similar to the curse system, in that they require collective participation from the community. This supports the community nature of the game. I like how the curse system is available to anyone anytime - speech limits aside. An eve can curse just as easily as 50th generation city member. The effect follows the target in every life. But what if there were other options with varying costs/requirements/effects?

BANISHMENT
So right now kings and queens are just an rp thing. What if they were more? The townspeople swear allegiance to a monarch, and once the monarch has X subjects, they gain the power of banishment. The monarch is the sole figure required to bestow a banishment. So this becomes powerful in that you don't have to coral a ton of people and get them all to fully type out a name, etc. It bypasses many of the problems with newbs not knowing how to curse properly. But there are also material costs. You must have a throne, and you must have a crown. The throne must be in an enclosed building. The monarch claims a throne while wearing the crown. This changes the name of the throne to "The Throne of monarchsname" rather than "an empty throne". After claiming the throne people can declare "monarchname is my liege". Once the monarch has enough subjects, they gain the power of banishment. Maybe just once in their life. Maybe once per X subjects. Or whatever. The effect of banishment might be that the subject is forced to drop any weapons, and cannot pick up any items at all within X tiles of the throne (except maybe harvesting wild gooseberries and onions, so they can leave perhaps). The banishment lasts for life of target, regardless of what happens to monarch.

This creates a dynamic where a monarch actually means something. The people are bestowing protective power on someone who (hopefully) can use it well. A pretender monarch will not get the support of enough subjects to do anything. The power is powerful because it is an executive power, not a diffuse one. But it is also costly in that it requires some advanced infrastructure. This is a mechanic of advanced towns. The throne is of course gold, so another use for gold. And I am a huge fan of anything that encourages enclosed buildings. You could even have accoutrements for the throne room, that count as additional fractions of a subject, perhaps at a matched ratio. A bearskin rug counts as .2. A silk tapestry .5. Etc. For every one subject you have, you can gain a bonus subject if you have enough accoutrements. So you can't get power solely from accoutrements, but you they do enhance your power.

EXORCISM/EXCOMMUNICATION

Along the lines of the monarch, exorcism is performed by priests, or whatever. I'm from a christian background so my example will refer to that kind of stuff because that's what I'm familiar with, but the system could be whatever. Shamanistic, egyptian, whatever. So ya, similar to monarch, you have a priest. This priest distributes blessings of some sort on the flock. Holy water, or wafers, special food, whatever. Maybe baptism of the baby in it's first year counts double. This is only required once in the life of each citizen. With a minimum number of blessed flock, the priest gains power, but only as long as that minimum flock number are alive. So they need to keep up with births to keep their power. Their power is EXORCISM. It could also be EXCOMMUNICATION, or both. The fundmental power is to prevent the griefer from being reborn in that town. So this doesn't help with the greifer you have, but it helps prevent them from showing up again in your town (at least for a time). The radius might depend on the power level of the priest, or it might be a flat 1000 tiles or something. No impossible for the griefer to overcome, but pretty hard. The priest can excommunicate while the griefer is alive. This requires their (golden) holy sceptre. Upon a successful strike, the griefer drops their weapon and is staggered. They can recover from this if not killed by someone else. it also breaks the priest's sceptre. Which can be reforged, but this prevents them from klonking the guy again if he recovers. Once they griefer has been struck by the sceptre (and presuming the priest has enough power) they cannot be reborn there anymore, eve or otherwise.

If the greifer dies without being Excommunicated, their bones can be EXCORCISED. Exorcising requires a ritual maybe with sacrifice (animal or material?) and some infrastructure. An alter perhaps, and of course reciting the target's name. The bones are placed on the alter, the rites performed, and the griefer is, just as with excommunication, no longer able to be reborn there. This is, similar to the monarch, an act executed solely by the priest, but again, with the participation of the community. They are effectively giving their trust to the priest that he will execute his role with honor.

Now, you could enhance this mechanic somewhat by requiring a refreshing of the EXwhatever. The griefer's bones must be placed in an urn or other costly vessel, and their time of forbiddance can be extended by future priests performing another sacrifice or rite. This requires ongoing effort by (and existence of) the priesthood, but can extend the EXwhatever indefinitely. The priests powers and tools - the alter, baptismal font, urns, etc. All must be in an enclosed building, with appropriate accoutrements to make it a church. This is potentially a huge gold sink. If each griefer requires an urn, you potentially have very large churches.

ANTI-ANTI-GRIEFER-GRIEFING

Obviously these buildings and accoutrements would be targets for greifers. So thrones, urns, etc *can* be moved, but only very slowly, like a stone. It'll be a very suspicious act if you're donig this an are not the monarch/priest themselves, or in their presence. None of them can be thrown in trash pits. As for the walls, griefing the walls or other structure does not immediately negate all they contain. It does prevent the throne from accepting new monarchs, and the alter from accepting new priests, baptismal font from working, urns from having their EXwhatever refreshed, etc.
Also obviously, the monarch and priest are potent targets. But, at the same time, if they are male or older women they are very replaceable. So the griefer must choose whether to go directly for fertile females and risk the focused wrath of these officials of the city, or despatch them first, then go for the women. The griefer's life is more complicated now.

SUMMARY

So, sorry for the wall of text, but I think that furhter anti-griefing measures could be fun, interesting, encourage more resource use (especially gold), encourage enclosed buildings, and create actual structure for roles such as monarch and priest. I think it would be a great enhancement to the tech progression, and human community, of the game.

Last edited by Redram (2018-08-16 14:16:14)

TrustyWay · 2018-08-16 14:54:15

Guys, you can make healing items, that is the most useful anti-killing methode, armor can be a good methode to kill even more so it isn't a anti-killing idea.

Griefing is something else, it's killing people too but by other ways than the blade or the bow. And you can already duel people, just tell the surrounding.

TrustyWay · 2018-08-16 14:57:02

Oh about kings and queens, it's just a crown. If you are cool enough, people will respect you and do what you say. No need to add special complicated rules, your acts are the most important things in the game. Just grab your balls and do it, say to the dude he is bannish : he might come back while apologizing or leave forever, and if he is hostile, kill him for god sack.

You can already give your crown to your son and so on, or be killed for some reasons.

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-08-16 15:03:33)

Auner · 2018-08-17 01:19:25

Redram wrote:

Along the lines of the monarch, exorcism is performed by priests, or whatever. I'm from a christian background so my example will refer to that kind of stuff because that's what I'm familiar with, but the system could be whatever. Shamanistic, egyptian, whatever. So ya, similar to monarch, you have a priest. This priest distributes blessings of some sort on the flock. Holy water, or wafers, special food, whatever.

I'm glad someone else is thinking about introducing a 'healer' role in the game- honestly it would be a role I would love to play.

However it should be noted that--- if you try to represent anyone's religion- Christian or Shamanic-- you'll really piss them off. Therefore I say it should be something that stands out in a crowd using color- A natural Jade color or a purple color would help the person stand out- gives out the whole "I am the chosen one vibe" which then adheres more to the practical ability of FINDING the person playing that role than it is about conveying a particular set of beliefs.

& hopefully that' will invite folklore amoung the people - even naming the role will have an enormous sway in things. So it'd almost be wise to call it like "The Adorned" (as in directly referring to being adorned with the item) just to ensure people don't feel preached to.

As for everything else- I like your thoughts- but is there anyway you could maybe re-think them to be more newb-friendly and easier to implement?

Mad_Villager · 2018-08-17 01:46:41

Redram wrote:

BANISHMENT
So right now kings and queens are just an rp thing. What if they were more? The townspeople swear allegiance to a monarch, and once the monarch has X subjects, they gain the power of banishment. The monarch is the sole figure required to bestow a banishment. So this becomes powerful in that you don't have to coral a ton of people and get them all to fully type out a name, etc. It bypasses many of the problems with newbs not knowing how to curse properly. But there are also material costs. You must have a throne, and you must have a crown. The throne must be in an enclosed building. The monarch claims a throne while wearing the crown. This changes the name of the throne to "The Throne of monarchsname" rather than "an empty throne". After claiming the throne people can declare "monarchname is my liege". Once the monarch has enough subjects, they gain the power of banishment. Maybe just once in their life. Maybe once per X subjects. Or whatever. The effect of banishment might be that the subject is forced to drop any weapons, and cannot pick up any items at all within X tiles of the throne (except maybe harvesting wild gooseberries and onions, so they can leave perhaps). The banishment lasts for life of target, regardless of what happens to monarch.
This creates a dynamic where a monarch actually means something. The people are bestowing protective power on someone who (hopefully) can use it well. A pretender monarch will not get the support of enough subjects to do anything. The power is powerful because it is an executive power, not a diffuse one. But it is also costly in that it requires some advanced infrastructure. This is a mechanic of advanced towns. The throne is of course gold, so another use for gold. And I am a huge fan of anything that encourages enclosed buildings. You could even have accoutrements for the throne room, that count as additional fractions of a subject, perhaps at a matched ratio. A bearskin rug counts as .2. A silk tapestry .5. Etc. For every one subject you have, you can gain a bonus subject if you have enough accoutrements. So you can't get power solely from accoutrements, but you they do enhance your power.

Really cool idea. I think that everyone that votes for someone with a crown, the person with the crown should have atleast 70% of his/her families votes to be able to make commands so greifers dont just spam banishments. But people die at random so you would need to go under 40-50% of the votes to loose commands. And also when a banishment have happen he should have around 3 mins to take his stuff and leave so the person has a chance of anything.

I don't agree with the throne command, you should just be able to left click the throne when you have over 70% of votes henceforth give you commands.
Also a pretender with 20% of votes should not be able to be banished.

Gold is rare, throne should be hard to make also so this dont get abused. Kings/Queens would be cool but only if it was rare and expensive.

Monolith_Rans · 2018-08-17 03:47:20

Here are the ways to kill someone:
1) starve them as a baby
2) shoot them with an arrow
3) stab them with a knife
4) lock them in prison to starve to death

There are ways to avoid all of these.
1) find a relative to feed you as a baby
2) always have a fire going in your town to sterilize the knife
3) always have water boiling to clean dirty pads
4) never go into a locking building if you are not holding the key

Griefers tend to ruin all the pads or put a rock on the fire before murdering. The medicine man/woman should always keep water boiling and fires burning.

Redram · 2018-08-17 13:59:39

Auner wrote:

As for everything else- I like your thoughts- but is there anyway you could maybe re-think them to be more newb-friendly and easier to implement?

Well, the complexity was kind of part of it, but it's easy to simplify things. I tend to present the most complex version I have, let the devs simplify if they want. The idea was the curse system is 0 cost, and doable from eve day 1, but has disadvantages including newbs not knowing they need to type the entire name included numerals. Also it has no concrete consequences. I was intending monarchs and priests to be different in that they would be a single-point source of authority - so avoiding the newb problem (unless the person themselves are a newb of course) - and that could dispense real consequences, but the infrastructure cost being very high. Complication is kind of part and parcel of this game. Frankly the game needs more goals to work towards aside from bells, imo. As for 'healer' role, I wasn't actually thinking of the priest having that role specifically. They could adopt that role as well of course, but I think the current mode where all you need to be a healer is pads and thread, with apron as a helpful bonus, is quite good.

As for specific realigions, ya, you'd definitely want to avoid specific symbolism - crosses, crescents, stars, etc. The game already has racists, no need to introduce additional friction points. But some things, just the terminology is potentially loaded - altar, baptism, perhaps certain accoutrements? It'd be useful to get opinions from players of other religions than christianity, in that regard. But certain simple things - candelabras, urns, silk tapestries/robes, should be generic enough that nobody would object.

@Mad_Villager - The percent of family votes, could work, but what if your family is fractured? Someone decided to leave the town and start their own elsewhere? It could be impossible to gain that percentage of the lineage. And what of towns with more than one lineage? A family in decline could have a king with a small subject pool, relative to the town population. That does make the monarch ripe for murder and replacement by the other family, which is a good story the first time, but would probably do more to encourage murder.

Throne claiming could require a minimum number of subjects pledge first - Otherwise griefers could claim the throne and prevent anyone else from being monarch. Or, if you have competing monarchs, simply the one with more subjects can override the claim of the other. But again, more conflict possibility.

I do think a minimum subjects to be a monarch at all is good, to try and keep greifers from becoming monarch with just a couple subjects. I feel like 5 or so might be a good minimum. Less than six people, are you really a city even? Also provides another reason to keep male children - more subjects to keep the monarch powered.

You could also possibly 'register' citizens to the throne. Either at birth, or of their own volition as adult. So then you have a list associated with the throne, that the monarch must have a certain percentage of (minimum X). That deals with diaspora and dual lineages both. Though it could encourage some gamey registration schemes I suppose.

As far as gold being rare, that's just a balance issue. Increase gold spawns if necessary. Or add silver as a resource, if one wants to not have accoutrements competing with bells and thrones for gold. But personally, I think it's good to make the players choose how to spend limited resources. Do they want a bell for the random chance they might gain a citizen or two? or do they want a monarch that might actually protect the town?

Last edited by Redram (2018-08-17 14:06:45)

carbon · 2018-08-17 17:47:54

I feel like most of these things can be implemented without having to hard code it...

Auner · 2018-08-17 17:52:17

Redram wrote:

Well, the complexity was kind of part of it, but it's easy to simplify things. I tend to present the most complex version I have, let the devs simplify if they want.

*sigh* look- just some general advice to life- no one on this earth needs help over-thinking things.

The world needs people who can solve problems simply instead of making them more complicated by over thinking it.

Please do the world a favor and practice simplification, you could actually use your brain smarts and make a difference if you did that.

The best advise I've ever gotten in life was from a professor- who said "Writing the rough draft will shape the future of the project"--- and it's truth. No one will listen to you if your thoughts are so complex it limits possible inspiration for growing the idea in another. 'Final drafts' are only created by one person if you are in school.

Last edited by Auner (2018-08-17 17:53:39)

Redram · 2018-08-17 19:38:59

Auner wrote:

*sigh* look- just some general advice to life- no one on this earth needs help over-thinking things.

Lol, that's the exact opposite of my professional experience. Overthinking things is basically what I'm hired to do. Regardless, the ideas I presented are simple enough in the context of this game. If a given player can't remember or doesn't know the process, then they're probably not who you want being monarch or priest anyway.

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