Having Fun and Messing Around is NOT Griefing

I am Pharo · 2018-08-22 21:35:59

Tarr wrote:

I am Pharo wrote:
populating the abandoned village,
Damn I was really hoping people wouldn't. I've been living on and off in that little outpost since very early in its lifespan. I specifically didn't do upgrades beyond the shell of an outpost in an attempt to deter people from moving in and messing up the place. I mean without people living in the outpost the place was constantly looted of things I had made. Hell I made nine buckets this morning and left them prepped in my cow pen for someone to milk it but on return most were missing AND my cow pen was destroyed.
It just feels bad each time I come back and find this little place more and more trashed as people move in and enslave themselves to the berry farm.

XD

I feel you, fam.

#ReasonsWhyWeCan'tHaveNiceThings

AnobeseWalrus · 2018-08-22 22:22:52

this thread is like a train wreck, It looks horrible but you cannot look away.

Tea · 2018-08-22 22:27:44

@Tarr

Yea was there too. Every time I am born in the Pharo settlement, I go north and help out there. And every time the town gets worse and worse. Took me a whole life to upgrade the berry farm, was waay too big and no space between rows. Thankfully I had a great helper.

While working on the farm, a woman came and took our bellow. I told her that it belonged to the town but she didn't listen. Followed her to the big city and took the bellow back. They had one. So why take it from the other village when you already have one ?

Last edited by Tea (2018-08-22 22:43:48)

I am Pharo · 2018-08-22 23:02:35

AnobeseWalrus wrote:

this thread is like a train wreck, It looks horrible but you cannot look away.

Pairs well with popcorn and a recliner. XD

Lily · 2018-08-23 08:47:21

Obviously, you should just try talking to people before trying to kill them. You don't actually have to be super productive to give back more than you take. Also running around like a chicken with it's head cut off doesn't really help things either. There is a lot of pressure to be constantly moving and being as efficient as possible but that is just a feel people have. There is actually plenty of time to learn new things, wandering around, roleplay, or even just goof off and still be productive.

pein · 2018-08-23 14:15:05

the bellow thing was when i was abandoned and my lil siter was raised just to become a griefer
i didnt even knew who triana was until i checked tree afterwards, just to see its my spoiled sister
this noob revenges when they run and take a tool cause you told them their mistake
so while everybody bitching for 10 minutes, i went out got clay and furs and branches and made new- not sure if same family but the concept is same, you can search for it but just make new later
same goes for fire making tools, hammer in in big cities, you need to make new and spare

i remember the boxes, and like 3 buckets and cow maybe
i spent my childhood to pick carrots, was like 40, maybe 10 sheep were fed and 5 compost made from it, i didnt found any later, i planted 6 and even if i asked people to pick it out at least, no one did so i had to do it, cause northeast had no carrot and both places bushes went yellow
but once you fix all and first pop boom starts, people start killing others

Joriom · 2018-08-23 15:48:20

Having fun is griefing by definition.

hihibanana · 2018-08-23 16:51:37

@Doctor Steave

I've had years of experience talking to people who actually do have mental breakdowns. It's not hard for me to recognize stages of someone's mental health through how they type. And it doesn't take me long for me to see someone's intention through any medium, how they're feeling, even their thoughts. I'm very receptive to people and their behavior. Don't pretend this isn't possible. (I also literally said I wasn't a psychologist; I don't need to be one; everyone can study people on their own in their own ways--established education can only get you so far)

Now if only you would have addressed what I said, other than using one part of the conversation as a distraction to the other someone else's post, I would have more, (directly) on-topic things to talk about. Unless this discussion wasn't that important to you in the first place.

Who knew being on-topic took both parties?

@I am "Pharaoh"

I see many shades of your behavior, and not many of them are stable.

... you think the hunger in this game operates on a one-year-one-minute-scale...?

carbon wrote:

Ah yes, the age old clash of ideals, people trying to convince the other party that their own play style is the just one. OHOL is a good platform to explore individual moral system and compare it to others. This topic was a great read and food-for-thought.

The problem is that people are labeling harmless acts as acts of grief. Killing random people is a playstyle thing, but pretending these people are purposefully trying to ruin the experience of others is something different. It's a mindset based on ignorance and lack of communication in many cases. Sometimes driven by mental health issues like paranoia or emotional instability. You could even say it's something people use to (falsely) justify killing.

This thread aims to remove any misunderstandings, but also seeks to bring awareness to the issue. Apparently people are very stubborn about believing people are out to ruin their experiences (when 90% of the time, it is just a new/er player). From what I've seen, many parts of the community do so because of mental instability and a peer-following effect. Something we aren't responsible for, and can't directly change; we can only share our stories and points of views.

I'm very sure I wasn't the only one who was randomly killed, while the killer shouted, "griefer!" It's not a fun experience.

Last edited by hihibanana (2018-08-23 17:33:27)

I am Pharo · 2018-08-23 17:38:13

"

hihibanana wrote:

@Doctor Steve
I've had years of experience talking to people who actually do have mental breakdowns. It's not hard for me to recognize stages of someone's mental health through how they type. And it doesn't take me long for me to see someone's intention through any medium, how they're feeling, even their thoughts. I'm very receptive to people and their behavior. Don't pretend this isn't possible.

So, what your saying is, through perception and first hand experience,
a person can recognize symptoms and behaviors, by type,
and can detect their intentions through any medium, like OHOL for example...

Interesting, interesting...

So you, and other people who possibly share your keen perception,
would be able to detect and handle someone who is griefing
the town before they do too much damage?

"yes" or "no" will suffice,

but feel free to ramble.

Ribbz · 2018-08-23 20:24:28

I'm probably taking the bait by replying, but I can't help it.

I've included tldr after my walls of text for those who don't want to read the ramblings.

hihibanana wrote:

The problem is that people are labeling harmless acts as acts of grief. Killing random people is a playstyle thing, but pretending these people are purposefully trying to ruin the experience of others is something different. It's a mindset based on ignorance and lack of communication in many cases. Sometimes driven by mental health issues like paranoia or emotional instability. You could even say it's something people use to (falsely) justify killing.

So that's one way you could think of it, but I think it's more so culling the herd that is going on along with the "false claim" griefing. I'll start with the culling first, no idea how to explain it without a backstory so prep yourself or skim it, ill give a tldr.

So I remember in one session about a month ago I was playing as a female in a little shanty town. Had all the tools needed to fulfill food needs (stuff to process compost, deep wells, berry field, etc), the issue is we had people horsing around with their RP nonsense. I kept telling folk we needed to compost and that a famine was imminent, made sure to run into their field of few and say it multiple times to everyone. Everyone blew me off except one other female who worked along side me managing the food and sheep. She was very rough in her mannerisms and I assume it was Pein I was playing with since Pein always seems a bit rough in interactions, but typically has the well being of a civ in mind first. Aside from that the played how a veteran would, swapping items on the ground to decrease the amount of time/steps needed to complete a task and the like. I assume that we had a mutual respect between eachother that life due to how we were working together being PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY, when we had a child we would tell them something along the lines of "stick close, mom has to get this work done, f when at two bars", and the key ingredient to it all is that we were actively trying to control population through our own means. We had several children that we had to starve out due to the incoming famine, I hate having to do it but it has to be done at times.

As I suspected famine struck and of course it was most hands on deck trying to get berries and stew going again. The only issue is no one bothered to replant stew crops and berries would take 8 minutes i believe until they bore fruit. This is around the time that the player I assume was Pein had obtained a knife. This is when the culling began, it was easy to pick out who was not pulling their weight, and the maybe Pein was swift to act. Many people called her a griefer but i kept her fed, it has to be done if a civ is going to survive and people don't want to wrap their heads around that idea. We want the cream of the crop to survive fixing the civ in these times of peril instead of those who are not pulling their weight sponging on the last reserves of food while the good workers starve searching for food in the wild.

tldr, Civ was screwed by sponges and rpers, possible Pein got a knife and culled the herd in order to ration the last of the food while we fixed society.

Now on to the second point.

hihibanana wrote:

I'm very sure I wasn't the only one who was randomly killed, while the killer shouted, "griefer!" It's not a fun experience.

I'd give a rough estimate that 7/10 times this happens it's what I've referred to as the "false claim" griefer. The other 3/10 times is either a veteran or average player who has had a rough few rounds prior to this life and wants to catch the jerk that griefed their last life before they cause too much damage again.

The "false claim" griefer is a very subtle method and can be very devastating. Basically the griefer would first scout out someone who appears to be very new, carrot sponging, or just not getting work done. Now there is a side step that can be taken in order to increase the chances of folks believing the griefer and that is to premeditate the murder, (probably using premeditate incorrectly but you should know what i mean). So before making the move the griefer would tell a few folks, mainly those who already have a weapon in their backpack, they assume that player is the griefer, would give some false claims of why they think that, and to keep an eye on that player all out of ear shot of the target. Then they griefer can make their strike when they seem fit, maybe chop a ton of firewood into kindling and start a ton of fires near the target and then shoot the player claiming they are griefing the wood. At this point it's up to the other members of the family who to believe and if they should kill the actual griefer. If they applaud the actual griefer then the griefer has a reason to have their weapon. They "protected" the family and are deemed worthy, hell sometimes a person getting old will give their gear knife included to the actual griefer since they think that person is a good pick to keep it safe.

tldr, It's mainly a long-term griefing method when innocent get killed, but sometimes it just folk who are fed up with a griefer and want to kill the sob from a previous life to prevent major damage.

I am Pharo · 2018-08-23 21:58:54

hihibanana wrote:

The problem is that people are labeling harmless acts as acts of grief. Killing random people is a playstyle thing, but pretending these people are purposefully trying to ruin the experience of others is something different. It's a mindset based on ignorance and lack of communication in many cases. Sometimes driven by mental health issues like paranoia or emotional instability. You could even say it's something people use to (falsely) justify killing.

Bruh, what?

Are you saying that people who randomly people murder aren't purposely ruining the experience of others,
but griefer hounds do?

Is that your point, after 6 pages of BS?

Reminder: hihibanana has no credentials regarding his statements on the topic of psychology,
as his certificate in crystal healing doesn't give him the authority to make these claims.

Love,
Pharo

hihibanana · 2018-08-23 22:36:36

@Pharo

Yes, though getting people to believe me is difficult, so I often do it indirect. Like cheer them up, and make sure they're not in the mood to grief anymore. I do this usually by messing with objects and spamming, "==========================================" then humping something so the message moves up and down.

Can you, for more than 30 minutes, stay on topic, without trying to bring someone down? I know I'm not the only one you do this to. Self control goes a long way. I've reported you multiple times for harassment and off-topic replies. Please control your behavior.

@Ribbz

The players that blew you off probably didn't know how to do what you were asking. There are always other ways to deal with famine, other than killing your children. But if you cannot do it any other way, then there's no stopping you. The consequence is that there are people who are new to the game you are killing, and there's a high chance they won't pick up the game again.

It was Mirelli who killed me one of the lives I'm describing in OP. Is this person a griefer? I wasn't ever griefing, though. Not even the life previous.

Last edited by hihibanana (2018-08-23 22:37:23)

Doctor Steve · 2018-08-23 23:18:52

I am genuinely confused here-- just to be clear, I'm talking ONLY about the game now. I'm going to just ignore any references to mental health from now on because you are hopelessly conceited about your "pseudo psychology" "skills" and, one last time, are heinously uneducated and unqualified to be doling out diagnoses and/or advice.

So the overarching question in this entire shit-show is whether or not it is okay to kill another player, and what constitutes griefing.

Hihibanana, you say:

-killing is wrong in the game under any circumstances even if it is used to exact punishment on someone who has already ruined the civilization.

- random murdering is a playstyle and should not be punished because it ruins THAT individual person's game experience

-that conflicts can be resolved or avoided through
*giving very specific verbal instructions because people don't know what they are doing and need their hands held in the game

*leaving jobs half-completed so people "get the hint" and take initiative to do those jobs, which they wouldn't have done had
you not, say, left the fire branch beside the kiln

For leaving the job half completed-- if I see a job in progress I'm not going to just take over, because someone is clearly in the middle of doing something. I'm just going to walk away and let it be. If you're the kind of person that just picks up a smithing hammer and starts hammering someone else's iron bar then I have probably bitched about you and may have considered doing you a murder (figurative 'you' not YOU personally). It's incredibly rude to go and take something when someone is in the middle of something. I've done it by accident before, but the person will usually chase me down and I apologize and give the item back because I get it, it's frustrating.

Another thing, if you've started a job then you should finish that job, don't rely on other people to do it for you because that's just lazy.

As for killing griefers, I think what constitutes a griefer has been well established in these forums AND I have given many examples which I wont repeat. If griefers are roleplayers, then people who kill griefers are also roleplayers because they are PLAYING the ROLE of justice keepers or protectors. They are still interacting with the game. So why does one group of roleplayer get preference over another?

Hihibanna wrote:

@Pharo
Can you, for more than 30 minutes, stay on topic, without trying to bring someone down? I know I'm not the only one you do this to. Self control goes a long way. I've reported you multiple times for harassment and off-topic replies. Please control your behavior.

Hihibanna, you have been consistently off topic AND you have been trying to bring people down, so I don't know where you get off reporting Pharo lol If anything WE should be reporting you for outright telling people they're having mental breakdowns, are psychotic, or narcissistic. Just because people don't agree with you, doesn't mean something is wrong with them. You posted this, it was open for comments, you claim you only want a debate and you talk about "truths"--- well let me learn you something about truth: in order to find truth you have to follow the evidence to where it takes you no matter whether you like the results or not. Most of us have arrived already and we're just waiting on you, friend.

Ribbz · 2018-08-23 23:58:00

So now I'm almost 95% sure this whole thread was some dressed up bait, but i'll bite the bait again it's fun.

hihibanana wrote:

@Ribbz
The players that blew you off probably didn't know how to do what you were asking.

Taking care of a berry farm is probably one of the easiest tasks any player can do. It's as easy as observing players taking care of the farm, hell you can learn just about any task or at least get an idea of how to do a task just by observing someone and when children say they don't know how to do something I teach them.

hihibanana wrote:

There are always other ways to deal with famine, other than killing your children.

You're absolutely right, before a famine strikes I'll tell what children I have to go out and live off the land for a bit until we get everything back right. It's not like we're just going up to people and stabbing them without saying anything. I'll ask people what they are doing and if they need a job, if they do need a job i'll give them one. IF I or someone else has tried dealing with folk multiple times and they continue to sponge or force feed people that's when I act.

hihibanana wrote:

But if you cannot do it any other way, then there's no stopping you.

I've tried many ways and to be honest when you kill a sponge/griefer that will typically get people back to work. Honestly those who kill a 100% confirmed griefer/s do good work and the town folk will typically come to that player for guidance/direction because they trust this person has the tribe's best interest at mind.

hihibanana wrote:

The consequence is that there are people who are new to the game you are killing, and there's a high chance they won't pick up the game again.

That's why folk typically ask if a baby is new and ask if a person needs a job if they are not doing anything.

On a side note I disagree with the idea that being new and being killed will increase new player turnover. Hell my second life i was shot as a baby, third life I was killed by a griefer that had fooled enough folk, and the most recent was from me killing another killer that was a triplet. Stabbed one triplet, second triplet shot me from behind a tree with a bow, third triplet patched the first triplet up. If a person is playing a game quits said game because someone else ruined their day then that is on them. In my opinion its more childish than the griefers.

hihibanana wrote:

It was Mirelli who killed me one of the lives I'm describing in OP. Is this person a griefer? I wasn't ever griefing, though. Not even the life previous.

I trust in Mirelli's judgement. She's been a great player and was actually the first person to take the time to teach me how to hunt and to compost.

Booklat1 · 2018-08-24 00:02:23

hihibanana wrote:

@Doctor Steave
I've had years of experience talking to people who actually do have mental breakdowns. It's not hard for me to recognize stages of someone's mental health through how they type. And it doesn't take me long for me to see someone's intention through any medium, how they're feeling, even their thoughts. I'm very receptive to people and their behavior. Don't pretend this isn't possible. (I also literally said I wasn't a psychologist; I don't need to be one; everyone can study people on their own in their own ways--established education can only get you so far)
.

how presumptuous you have to be to make this statement? Have you ever even worked with anything or are you a teen that actually believes reading a couple books on a theme make you a speciallist? If you knew anything about psychology you'd know the absurdity that is oversimplifying a patient based on a shallow diagnosis. And the issues in diagnosing someone who is not your patient. Be responsible ffs.

i dont really disagree with your original point that people sometimes kill others having fun just because. this includes people here who say shit about griefers all the time. I think you should only kill people if they are directly harming others or a city's resources. There is rp behaviour that is just too weird to not respond though. I once had a daughter that kept talking about killing our enemy when we never had one. Other daughters would bounce off my arms and go asking people for stuff and then would grief heavily. After a few of these bad apples you end up being fast on the stabbings.

hihibanana · 2018-08-24 00:06:50

@Doctor Steve

Where are you drawing the conclusions? First of all, I'm telling you that murder shouldn't be the top priority, and especially shouldn't be used to kill an innocent player (newbie, roleplayer, communicating player, person having fun). If someone has ruined a society purposefully they are a griefer, and though the majority will say to kill that person, I say convince them. Not everyone can convince a griefer to stop griefing.

I'm not for or against punishing people who kill random players. Many people will kill that person, but I would rather convince them to stop. Though this is less likely than if they were a griefer. I won't stop someone from killing someone like this. Specific instructions? You mean, like, teaching others how to do things in this game?

Leaving a job half-finished? In no way did I imply that you should leave a job half-finished. I'm not going to make half a kiln, and expect people to do the rest. What I am going to do is clear the work area so that more people can work. Clean and organize the bakery so more people can bake. Place the firebrands in more obvious locations. Some people just need a little push; leaving something half-finished would do the opposite.

The idea many people have of a griefer is actually a new player. An actual griefer will purposefully try to ruin the experience of others. Hence griefing. A new player is incapable of griefing. They'll just make you mad if you're a stickler for productivity. Roleplayers aren't necessarily griefers. They are definitely not griefers just because someone says they are and kills them randomly. All you need to do is understand what a griefer really is. And it is not messing around and having fun. It is ruining the experience of others. Go ahead, kill them, but I would rather you reason with them first at least. Because they're human, you're human. They're probably upset and need to be calmed down.

Why are you off-topic?

@Ribbz

You'd be surprised how little people know about this game. The tutorial doesn't teach farming. Many people try to water the berries without soil first, and that's knowing you have to water the berry bushes. Also, not everyone is willing to watch others and learn. Some are looking around, constantly hitting the tab key to cycle through the recipes because they're simply confused. I'm sure you were at that point too. There are also particular people who are too shy to ask for help; it's not too common though. Also, the case of streamers doing an intro for their audience, talking to them about the game, or telling their audience how lost they are instead of listening to players around them.

If someone is force-feeding people, and you have plenty of food, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've had a force-feeder in my village, but we never went into a famine, and no one killed them. If you are low on food, and you explained it, and they're not stopping, then that's when I wouldn't stop someone from punishing them. If someone is just sitting there, eating food, I wouldn't kill them. They aren't purposefully or actively doing something to ruin other people's experiences, despite being told over and over again to do something. I've seen someone AFK from baby to 40 year old (they came back). The impact of that was barely noticeable.

If the person is 100% confirmed griefer, sure. I would hesitate to be inspired by someone who claims they killed a griefer even though no one knows what the "griefer" did.

Some people are pretty sensitive (and would leave after one bad game). I've given people the benefit of the doubt in matters like this, but they never cease to surprise me. That's just my experience, however.

I wouldn't trust Mirelli's judgement after killing me for such a little reason. It makes her look triggerhappy and unable to differentiate between a griefer and non-griefer.

Last edited by hihibanana (2018-08-24 00:54:43)

Doctor Steve · 2018-08-24 00:41:01

Hihibanana wrote:

Most of the time, communication is unspoken. Light a long shaft, put it next to the forge, people will pick it up and start smithing. You'd be surprised. Put a full bucket next to berries, people will start watering it. Like I said in my other post, if you do small things like this, people will pick up on what needs to be done, and do it. No words necessary.

Your example here is a job that is half finished.
Also this is a total switch in philosophy on your part because before this post you were saying that communication should be verbal and specific. Which is it?

Hihibanana wrote:

Where are you drawing the conclusions? First of all, I'm telling you that murder shouldn't be the top priority, and especially shouldn't be used to kill an innocent player (newbie, roleplayer, communicating player, person having fun). If someone has ruined a society purposefully they are a griefer, and though the majority will say to kill that person, I say convince them. Not everyone can convince a griefer to stop griefing.

I have never once said that I want to kill newbies. I take time to teach people when they ask to be taught. I have given specific examples of what kind of griefing I am referring to and none of those are newbie behaviors.

I draw my conclusions from what you, yourself, have written in response to this thread. Your responses are contradictory and vague at best, and your definitions of "griefer" are inconsistent. Whenever someone calls you out on your bullshit, you cry out about mental illnesses and try to change the subject (talk about off-topic).

I don't know why I am bothering to argue with you but you should know that your "messing around" is not cute or funny, it is irritating and childish. Think of it this way-- if the other people don't laugh, it's not a joke.

I am Pharo · 2018-08-24 01:11:29

hihibanana wrote:

@Pharo
Yes, ~~I am a mook that thinks that way,~~ though getting people to believe me is difficult, so I often ~~contradict myself~~ do it indirect . Like cheer them up, [by griefing].
Can you, possibly NOT school me harder on every single theory I pull out of my ass? You are making me, make myself look like a fool. I know I'm not the only one you do this to, although, it is evident by your body of posts, and I hate evidence.
Self-control, and clearly self-perseverance, is something I lack, having decided to pick a fight with someone more talented than me in completing his thoughts, and staying on topic. I've snitched on you multiple times for annihilating my arguments and calling me out as a bitch-made swagger-jacker. Please be nice to me, even though I am acting like a defeated troll making baseless accusations about community members' mental health, which I am neither right, nor qualified to make. Please allow me to freely inflate my fragile ego and sense of self worth, as it is totally dependent on constant reassurance from myself, and my personal perversions of truth that I have decided to post here.

hihibanana wrote:

@Ribbz
It was Mirelli who killed me one of the lives I'm describing in OP. Is this person a griefer? I wasn't ever griefing, though. Not even the life previous.

If Mirelli killed you, then you were griefing/being fucking useless, as evident in your many hollow posts this 6 page thread.
And I'm sure you will be killed again if you don't adapt your playstyle
to one that is less ...stabable?
.... stabby?
...stab-inducing?
You get the point... point... get it?

(Probably not)
Knives are pointy...
and you get stabbed a lot for being a useless sponge.
It's quite funny.

Its your responsibility to figure that out.

Love,
Pharo

P S
How's reporting me to the moderators going for you, kiddo?

hihibanana · 2018-08-24 01:17:01

@Doctor

There are two cases I would light a firebrand and leave it next to the forge. One, there's a bustling city and no one is focusing on the forge or the bakery. The farm is at a higher priority. I light the firebrand, set it next to the forge, and help with farming. Two, the camp is just starting out, there's no kindling, plates, ore, or food. I keep the firebrand lit so someone can start a fire in the future. At this point, for both examples, I've examined everyone in the village and seen if they pick up on queues like this. Sometimes they do; sometimes they don't. If they consistently pick up on unspoken clues, that's what I leave a lit firebrand next to the forge. If people didn't pick up on unspoken queues, they would think someone is already smithing, which would do the opposite of what I want. This is just one example.

When it comes to watering the berries, leaving the full bucket of water there will cause people to water the berries almost always. Often when I do this, I am prioritizing something else, and have no time to water the berries. This especially works if no one is watering the berries, though there are exceptions.

Spoken and unspoken communication is communication nonetheless. If you find a way to unspokenly communicate to a griefer to stop griefing, I applaud you. But this is a bit on the difficult side. Spoken communication needs to consider if the person can interpret it in an offensive way. "Hey you, stop doing that" would do nothing. "Esmeralda, water these berries so I can feed the babies" works better. Tossing Esmeralda at the bushes running to the babies also works, but it's more difficult to get the message across. Tossing Esmeralda at the berries and saying, "water these pls" then taking care of the babies would be both in action. The unspoken communication takes out the need to be so specific and loquacious.

I'm telling you my definition of a griefer. Whether or not you align with that definition isn't really the point. The point is that I think people should be able to talk down a griefer before simply killing them.

Mental illness is relevant when people are emotionally unstable and kill people because of their paranoia and inability to use judgement. Also when people band together, and support killing people who aren't actually griefing. "Sponging" is a good example of this. Many times, a sponger is actually a new player, and isn't something a veteran would want to do, unless they were having fun. Real griefers tend to be more intricate and less blatant.

I've made many people laugh on this game. If they join in, they are laughing. Nonetheless, it's hard to tell if someone is laughing or not, when everyone is a still image, forced to talk through limited text.

Edit: Earlier today, we were a bunch of old people surrounding berry bushes, waiting to die. "We did so well" "I love you all" "We're all old"

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@Booklat1

I don't follow psychology. I follow spirituality and intuition. To me, meaning is far more important than words. Psychological terms just so happen to have the correct amount of meaning, that other people would easily pick up with the meaning of my sentences.

I don't think I would be quick to judge whether or not someone is a griefer, even after so many bad apples. Often times, I sense someone is griefer and play really nicely with them. Then I don't get that vibe anymore. Then again, I don't think everyone pays attention to vibes.

Last edited by hihibanana (2018-08-24 01:36:59)

Ribbz · 2018-08-24 01:43:22

hihibanana wrote:

@Ribbz
You'd be surprised how little people know about this game. The tutorial doesn't teach farming. Many people try to water the berries without soil first, and that's knowing you have to water the berry bushes. Also, not everyone is willing to watch others and learn. Some are looking around, constantly hitting the tab key to cycle through the recipes because they're simply confused. I'm sure you were at that point too. There are also particular people who are too shy to ask for help; it's not too common though. Also, the case of streamers doing an intro for their audience, talking to them about the game, or telling their audience how lost they are instead of listening to players around them.

Oh I'm not surprised in the least bit and you're right it doesn't teach farming, but if a person is not willing to observe they are not willing to learn. If observing and cycling don't work then they could always try ASKING for some help.

In the case of youtubers/streamers I highly doubt most of them are that lost in how to do things, but then again I'm not a youtuber/streamer.

hihibanana wrote:

If someone is force-feeding people, and you have plenty of food, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've had a force-feeder in my village, but we never went into a famine, and no one killed them. If you are low on food, and you explained it, and they're not stopping, then that's when I wouldn't stop someone from punishing them.

Habitual Force feeders are always a problem no matter the scenario and should be considered a red flag. I've actually let a force feeder live, only told him to stop force feeding since A. it's wasting resources and B. someone might have a nice Yum bonus going and he'd unknowingly kill that. He kept doing it until he got old enough to hold a knife and stabbed me saying that I wasn't his mom and he could do what he wanted to.

hihibanana wrote:

If someone is just sitting there, eating food, I wouldn't kill them. They aren't purposefully or actively doing something to ruin other people's experiences, despite being told over and over again to do something.

I'm not saying just to upright kill a person if they are just eating and that's it, hell I'm typically too busy working compost or killing bears in the surrounding area so griefers don't lure them to town or new players don't get a scary surprise from clicking on it to micro manage a town. Plus how do you think a town gets low on food? Either from folk sponging the food and being unproductive, productive folks doing good things but not enough doing food related work, not enough crops with the current population of the family.

hihibanana wrote:

If the person is 100% confirmed griefer, sure. I would hesitate to be inspired by someone who claims they killed a griefer even though no one knows what the "griefer" did.

I'm not saying to believe any Joe blow who says they killed a griefer. If I told you to do that you'd be a victim to the False Claim tactic.

hihibanana wrote:

Some people are pretty sensitive (and would leave after one bad game). I've given people the benefit of the doubt in matters like this, but they never cease to surprise me. That's just my experience, however.

So you're saying if someone gets roflstomped in a game like Overwatch or Rust, for example, the first time they play it they'll never play it again?

hihibanana wrote:

I wouldn't trust Mirelli's judgement after killing me for such a little reason. It makes her look triggerhappy and unable to differentiate between a griefer and non-griefer.

That's your call and your opinion and you are entitled to it. I think highly of Mirelli and I believe she makes good calls.

hihibanana · 2018-08-24 02:23:38

When streamers play the game for the first time, they act like brand new players would, but also try to be entertaining to an audience, adding to their unresponsiveness. When they play the game regularly, they aren't nearly as lost. I completely agree that someone should work on their communication skills, but I also suspect people have bad communication skills, and will not improve on them unless in certain circumstances.

I've never met someone who habitually force-fed. Usually they are feeding others because they genuinely want to help, or they're trolling. I've definitely had cases where force-feeders went insane and killed people. There is a fine line between benevolent force-feeders and malevolent force-feeders. Usually those who truly want to help will stop when you explain to them what they're doing.

I personally think there are always less spongers than people think. I think a village would sooner run out of food due to lack of organization than lack of productivity.

Some people do stop playing Overwatch after the first (few) match(es). I know one personally. It may not be a lot of people, but some people do do it.

Last edited by hihibanana (2018-08-24 02:25:09)

Doctor Steve · 2018-08-24 02:42:45

Hihibanana wrote:

Edit: Earlier today, we were a bunch of old people surrounding berry bushes, waiting to die. "We did so well" "I love you all" "We're all old"
"------------------------------------------------------------------------"
"------------------------------------------------------------------------"
"------------------"
"-----------------------------------------"

Yeah I know I was there. If I remember correctly, someone told me that the village was full of griefers. Then there were suddenly a bunch of complete walnuts standing around doing "-----" etc., and they died, and suddenly no more griefers. Weird....

Uncle Gus · 2018-08-24 02:42:53

Pharo, keep it civil. If you need to attack the person to counter an argument, you're not winning the argument.

Doctor Steve · 2018-08-24 02:48:13

Uncle Gus wrote:

Pharo, keep it civil. If you need to attack the person to counter an argument, you're not winning the argument.

I'm not saying that anyone here is without blame in this total train-wreck, but Hihibanana has also been attacking people on personal levels, to a much greater extent than Pharo I think. Hihibanana did tell Pharo that they were a psychopath and that everyone would be better off if they left the forum and the game altogether. Hihibanana has also repeatedly told people they were having mental breakdowns or were depressed, and told them they needed to "better themselves".

I'm surprised none of the admins picked up on that, to be honest.

Uncle Gus · 2018-08-24 02:51:25

Yes, that is noted as well. For what it's worth, I don't think hihibanana was trying to be mean about it, but was rather misguided. Pharo is clearly making a spiteful attack.

hihibanana, I think you should keep your comments about other members' mental wellbeing to yourself as well.

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Re: Having Fun and Messing Around is NOT Griefing

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