China’s social credit system

helloworld · 2018-09-05 23:01:00

Hello,

Today, I found out about China’s social credit system. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/chinese … y-invasion

It’s basically a credit system based on your social behavior, aim to reform or be shunned.
Personally very scary stuff, especially if other country starts adopting similar policies.

I think there is some correlation between the karma system of this game to SCS (social credit system). And I wanted to discuss further about the social behavior changes and how real of a threat this is to human rights. As well as how likely it will get implemented into other countries.

Finally the topic of griefer’s rights in this game. I have read couple of post on this forum about not completely limiting griefer’s ability to grief. Thats why killing is still possible so is griefing.

Some even argue that griefer is part of the game, and finding solution to such problem is as well. Does that mean your against limiting bad actor in real world such as the SCS?

On final note, when i discuss SCS, I am not talking about china’s policy. but the general idea of such social system that watch ur behavior and gives u a rating.

I hope to come out of this discussion with more optimism, for i am cynical and this news is not helping. Thank you

Last edited by helloworld (2018-09-05 23:03:00)

Anshin · 2018-09-05 23:11:02

Homework much?

Sounds like Black Mirror S03E01

Joriom · 2018-09-05 23:15:49

SCS is bad. SCS is end of free will. Its already implemented in many systems without our knowledge. Facebook uses it to solve reports and decide which posts to promote. League of Legends report system uses it to evaluate reports and serve punishments. Goodle uses it for spam filtering, monetization, add serving, etc.

Comparing karma to SCS is wrong. Every voice is worth the same for karma. SCS values your voice depending on how you are valued by others.

SCS combined with complicated telecomincational systems without clear understanding how they work (which is impossible for most of humanity) is basically revival of slavery.

As for griefing... I believe Jason, OHOL developer, stated himself that griefing and people being "dicks" is part of life. He is willing to give players tools to defend themselves, but he will not arbitrarily enforce rules. Dealing with those situations ourselves as players is part of the game.

VioletLily · 2018-09-05 23:28:47

Such a system is already implemented in small communities (such as OHOL, small villages/towns, work-places, etc) by default. How? Everybody knows everybody. Everybody is already aware of everybody else's contribution (or lack thereof). Of course, everybody will judge differently and with the exception of work places they probably won't be recorded, but the concept is essentially the same.

There are pros and cons to such a system. I'm unsure how it would work in such a large scale and to such an extent, and therefore don't really feel comfortable giving my opinion in that regard. It does sound rather Big-Brother-ish though, which is scary.

As for griefer's rights, the real issue is that this game isn't moderated (I personally don't have a problem with this). That leaves it up to the community to take care of problems such as this. As far as I know, PvP was implemented as a tool to combat griefers. There are many, many ways to grief, and we needed a way to take them out of the community before further harm could be done.

Last edited by VioletLily (2018-09-05 23:36:36)

PeaGirl · 2018-09-05 23:41:25

Joriom wrote:

As for griefing... I believe Jason, OHOL developer, stated himself that griefing and people being "dicks" is part of life. He is willing to give players tools to defend themselves, but he will not arbitrarily enforce rules. Dealing with those situations ourselves as players is part of the game.

This is the point. Not everyone is there for same reason. Some want to build and others want to destroy, dictate, guide and likely even find friendship. It is a wild landscape where no one is safe, but no one is completely endangered, because reborn ability is possible. I myself find this game as "emotional building" game, where you certainly know, that everything will perish if you don't make it to stay. Some find the red thread of cooperation, some find distraction in finding a solution as how to kill someone for reasons. Curse system is perhaps one of the few things that goes really close to SCS. People are given a chance to toss a karma at someone. Tossing something that happens in game to a stranger that just plays their way. (Which likely annoyed/furstrated folks, which is rather common) Though it is double sided blade... you cannot never be sure what is the root of drama, you only trust in your instincts, but you could yourself get caught in it even unintentionally just because you give someone bad vibe (with arrow and bow on your hand while idling for any threat outside). So you could say OHOL is social critisism's wild west. Shit flies across your face to the next and you are to be blamed for not shielding soil attack. It's a dungfest, and I like it.

SomeRandomPerson · 2018-09-06 03:38:03

Lol "Griefers Rights"

You already got anonymity, We all get a fresh start every life. Unless your cursed but even then it takes alot and only lasts one hour.

Last edited by SomeRandomPerson (2018-09-06 03:46:12)

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 04:02:52

The curse option is powerfull if people don't forget to use it. I've not problem with Griefers, shit happens in life. I think than when the griefer will see than people don't want to feed him because of his bubble color, he will maybe think about what he is doing. If he really want to play, he will try to be more discreet. Or trying to grief less often.

Don't forget than every griefer is a baby. So... if you are able to know than your baby is a griefer, then you will be able to choose to let him live or not.

(It's really a "prehistoric way of thinking" even if in real life, a mom is unable to know if his baby will be evil. A prehistoric or neolithic community will want to survive. They will discuss about the destiny of someone who is counter productive.)

I've more problem with suicidal babies. Because they don't play the game, they just try to respawn. They easily can put down a community effort just by lack of invest.

Last edited by S0mbre (2018-09-06 04:10:03)

pein · 2018-09-06 04:33:16

two sides of coin
everybody is subjective a bit
lot of people doesnt care about others as long it doesnt affect them, like feminazis are happy as long they are happen to be female that game
but thats kinda same as griefing, while most of you talks about how nice you are to players, i seen many times people to occupied to see the drama going on, than to care about a little baby girl crying in meantime and that ends the lineage
lot of middle skilled people know how to eat but dont really navigates trough the city and they limit themselves to 20x20 tiles, and take everything within it, and get butthurt when someone notices it or takes it back
lot of people talk a lot to others and are covered in any situation
its kind of indirect griefing and you got no chance to prove them guilty

so a lot of times i understand murderers, they got a reason to kill

yet people dont ask questions, they just stab anyone on sight, and anyone who stabs others, as long as they get away with it
the new trend people making up stories and ask others to stab them cause they were slower picking up clothes or think they deserve a knife or crown as a baby

there are some griefers who do it for a reason, like retaliation to someone who is an asshole
for example 5-6 feminazis killing babies shouldnt be surprised a baby borns back and kills them or ruins the city for good, cause until that 6 people are alive, and keep up dumb traditions, they are the actual griefers

or the town who gave twins painted clothes and stabbed others without warning for picking it up clothes from ground

you cant really talk about righteousness as long as you dont care about your consequences of your actions and inaction, and all you care is yourself
letting a baby die is one thing but its worse if you keep it alive to be asshole with him and not to provide a plan, a way to feed it a few years

there are different skilled good guys and bad guys
i seen a lot of noobs who try to shoot me and act all innocent when i retaliate, i think there is more of them
there are a few more skilled people and you are screwed if you piss them off

one thing is to be at a skill level to deal with griefers- i still think my topic about how to kill improved on situation
you cant just say all killings are bad so kill the killers
and you cant just let someone kill others and do nothing about it

to stop griefing or not make it so frustrating we would need:
a way to undo things or replace it (growing trees or undo actions in a short timeframe)
picking seeds out of the soil
more information (a lady just filled the whole city with corn seeds while a killer was roaming so she got no suspicion)- mark a name to it or provide a counter on things and show it, like if you would see the resources of the city, a huge growth on seeds means there is a griefer
higher tier stuff with collaboration- like kilns or fences, collaborative unremovable versions or drawing blueprints on map asking for approval, for example you would need 5+ upvotes no downvotes to place a new oven base, mark things to destroy/remove like a line of berry bushes on middle of huge field or a badly placed grave
way to hide/show this new layers

as for killings: we would need non lethal way to deal with disputes, like slapping a younger player would disarm him, or make it drop an item, and would collapse for 2-4 seconds, a few seconds cooldown so wont starve him/her, at least enough time to notice you and say something
invite people on duel and when you both got a weapon you would get no murder penalty and lock out others from it

boggers · 2018-09-06 05:17:01

pein wrote:

as for killings: we would need non lethal way to deal with disputes, like slapping a younger player would disarm him, or make it drop an item, and would collapse for 2-4 seconds, a few seconds cooldown so wont starve him/her, at least enough time to notice you and say something
invite people on duel and when you both got a weapon you would get no murder penalty and lock out others from it

I agree with this, in part.

A non lethal melee attack with similar gameplay and consequences to stabbing would be good. ie. hit someone with short shaft, attacker gets slowdown and can't drop shaft, while "victim" gets "bruised", drops what they are carrying and cant pick up anything for 10 secs. Enough to get someones attention if they keep messing with your stuff. Age should have nothing to do with it though.

I'd say duels are completely out of scope for OHOL though.

pein · 2018-09-06 08:41:26

well ten sec is a lot to not eat, especially for a kid
you could hit a kid and is dead and you wont get caught, its fine for a weapon pick up cooldown, and 3-5 sec for anything else

a lot of times griefers are young people, i seen dumb old people but under 20 should be some limitation, against lets say 21-54
generally kids do stuff while not knowing what the camp looks like
now you wouldnt really get mad if an old person hits you to stop you from extending a berry bush, i killed someone for it cause didnt stop and didnt wanted that to happen cause then i got to water, pick it off, wait till goes brown and stake, dig it, while chances are someone fixes it before all of that, i would of been fine slapping him with a shaft and explain that extending that way gonna take away space from the forge

duels would be great for disputes
lot of time no one is right, or its reverse, a noob taking something important, makes someone mad, and the noob wont even think that he did anything wrong, and others surround him and heal him, so the other player looks like a rude griefer when trying to deal with him
then there are the people who run, hide and frame others even if they are the ones who wronged, their attempt to kill him failed, so they ask others to do the dirty work, and people do it cause they got a weapon and a reason, even if its a false reason, someone backs it up
and then there are the lineage killers who take off defenseless people while the guards are off screen
any of this cases, forcing someone to resolve face to face would been much better than the current coward tactics

then there are the stab happy persons who never attack anyone while they got chance to retaliate, and they dont know what happened they just stab the player who is on slowdown, most often then not they die on a real duel with equal chances, i got hard time dodging an attack but if i do they run, cry, or die but never face you on equal chances

this chain kills make no sense
and reusing weapons over and over
i had a friend stab a griefer, a guy stabbed him, so i stabbed the guy, his friend try to stab me, i stabbed him too but then someone killed me on second cooldown
so esentially was a 2v2 and we won, but a random killed me, 2 weapons changed owner 4 times
also if they heal the griefer you are still on cooldown and he can kill the person who finally got him
killing the griefer makes you a target, and if you got gear, people get a free pass to take your stuff

i wish it would be like 2 hitpoints to die, so you can retaliate, the first stab would slightly slow down both of you
the second stab would act as currently, so you either 2v1 or duel properly
also the first few seconds after a stab, should turn the victims weapon red too, for a few seconds, so you can say something and people cant pick it up, they could still use a 3rd weapon or wait like 10 sec, this also would stop kids running off with a knife
killing is still the only way to stop griefers, winning a fight should have a bit of upside
next time you wouldnt need 2 stabs, only one, so if you happen to be in a lot of fights you still get punished
if both people hold weapon (and right click once at least) shouldnt be any murder cooldown, or only half speed half length, in this cases they both got intent to kill, and generally the third person wins it

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 10:16:21

We have a curse function, it's enough. People should start to play and stop killing every male. A griefer is easy to manage. Sometimes, a city have a furnace and iron, they don't even try to make a knife or an arrow. They just crying because the griefer have the only bow or knife of the village.

It will be great if Jason could fix the issue where you can't hit a guy who is moving. (This is the real problem here)

Chainkill is a natural reaction. I have no problem with it. People sometimes don't search answer and make action by themself. Sometimes, they have wrong but it's the way the game is. I don't have anything against personal action (good or bad), it's part of the game.

Last edited by S0mbre (2018-09-06 10:19:11)

Anshin · 2018-09-06 11:41:54

pein wrote:

lot of middle skilled people know how to eat but dont really navigates trough the city and they limit themselves to 20x20 tiles, and take everything within it, and get butthurt when someone notices it or takes it back

The default view is 7hx11w (three tiles above and below you and five tiles to either side).

No wonder newer players are berry sponges - they can't see anything else!
In default view your chances of stepping on a snake or wandering into a boar you didn't see coming is really high.
So they stay near the berries and don't venture very far. It is terribly myopic.

If you consider each tile one meter square = about 3.3 feet, then you can only see 10 feet away.
The 1080p (2x) zoom mod brings this up to 20 feet which makes sense as 20/20 vision and should be the new default resolution.

Personally I prefer the 1440p (3x) version, because the game is still clear on a crummy old 1366x768 laptop monitor,
and people can see farther than 20 feet even if it isn't perfect.

Not being able to see properly is ruining the experience for new players and old players who have to live with them.
I don't understand why the resolution hasn't been upgraded yet given all the other upgrades the game has seen.

S0mbre · 2018-09-06 11:45:45

I always love when someone come back with a snake, boar or bear injury. It's so cute to see them in this state. To listen what they say. To see how they react to this unexpected situation. And it create some action in a quiet village.

Jason say than a bigger resolution will ask more for the server to answer. He say than the resolution is like this for a reason. But mobile have a function to unzoom the map. So, i think the server could manage this.

Last edited by S0mbre (2018-09-06 11:47:48)

Joriom · 2018-09-06 11:51:08

Anshin wrote:

If you consider each tile one meter square = about 3.3 feet, then you can only see 10 feet away.
The 1080p (2x) zoom mod brings this up to 20 feet which makes sense as 20/20 vision and should be the new default resolution.
Personally I prefer the 1440p (3x) version, because the game is still clear on a crummy old 1366x768 laptop monitor,
and people can see farther than 20 feet even if it isn't perfect.

Actually, 1080p is x1.5, 1440p is x2 and 2160p (4k) is x3.

Anshin · 2018-09-06 12:16:08

Joriom wrote:

Anshin wrote:
If you consider each tile one meter square = about 3.3 feet, then you can only see 10 feet away.
The 1080p (2x) zoom mod brings this up to 20 feet which makes sense as 20/20 vision and should be the new default resolution.
Personally I prefer the 1440p (3x) version, because the game is still clear on a crummy old 1366x768 laptop monitor,
and people can see farther than 20 feet even if it isn't perfect.
Actually, 1080p is x1.5, 1440p is x2 and 2160p (4k) is x3.

Ah, well that explains why 1440p is so good.

20/20 vision for everyone!

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-09-05 23:01:00

China’s social credit system

#2 2018-09-05 23:11:02

Re: China’s social credit system

#3 2018-09-05 23:15:49

Re: China’s social credit system

#4 2018-09-05 23:28:47

Re: China’s social credit system

#5 2018-09-05 23:41:25

Re: China’s social credit system

#6 2018-09-06 03:38:03

Re: China’s social credit system

#7 2018-09-06 04:02:52

Re: China’s social credit system

#8 2018-09-06 04:33:16

Re: China’s social credit system

#9 2018-09-06 05:17:01

Re: China’s social credit system

#10 2018-09-06 08:41:26

Re: China’s social credit system

#11 2018-09-06 10:16:21

Re: China’s social credit system

#12 2018-09-06 11:41:54

Re: China’s social credit system

#13 2018-09-06 11:45:45

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#14 2018-09-06 11:51:08

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#15 2018-09-06 12:16:08

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