Stop making lazy sheep pens.

Kailied · 2018-09-25 07:27:19

Just stop. Stop. I said stop!
Ok, now that I've got your attention, seriously what is wrong with a fence pen? It's not that difficult.
The worst of them all, the trash pit pen. Yes, yes, it's cheap and easy, it's fast, and it works. But you know what it is and isn't at the same time? Permanent.
You know what can go in trash pits? Dead lambs. You know what is constantly produced in the average sheep pen? Dead lambs. You know what it says when you pick up a dead lamb? First recipe is Dead Lamb + Trash Pit. Yup.. And you wonder why new people throw the sheep in it. They don't know how the game works.
And one way we can solve this? Maybe educate the new people, spread the word that dead lambs will despawn if you just leave them alone. You know what's an even better solution? Don't be lazy. Pick off the maple branches around whenever you can, if you're closer than 100 tiles away from camp, pick off a maple branch when you see it. It will help in the future, especially when you're an eve, do it right away. If you have at least 16 or more maple trees around you, you can make 8 fences per hour, you could make a decently sized sheep pen by generation 3 or 4, and have a nice looking, functioning sheep pen that can't be as easily griefed (intentionally or unintentionally) by just throwing dead lambs, leaves, tinder, anything. It's so easy to grief these pens, and guess what? Remember I said it's permanent too? It is, those trash pits will stay there forever, wasted space. Now, onto the other kinds.. A rose pen. Permanent, can never be moved. And that's a good and a bad thing. Someone could build one more rose bush on the entrance and then your civilization collapses. Same with grave pens. All of these are bad ideas, just don't be lazy, and make a fence pen.

pein · 2018-09-25 08:26:53

fence pen its a joke

pits need 20 items in it so pretty much permanent, i seen once someone filled every single pit and i was like: 'if you spend more time griefing it than me making it you deserve it'

dont be lazy and make yourself the fence pens just to see its griefed before you die

as long as you need to leave the shovel for composting, it can be griefed easily, they need 1 click to pick it up and 1 to remove a fence

its not one more rose bush, its 2, which needs soil, hoe, pick off 12 roses, water it, cut with flint, stratify 2 seeds and plant it, water it
in case to block one entrance, now i made the last one as a proof of concept, generally you want at least 2 entrances as it can kill someone who shears on corner and has no storage for shears, a decent front entrance and 2 filled pits, blocking it costs 10 walls then

grave pens function much better as it has storage space as well

actually if i can get help i generally only fix 3 sides and let the fourth side flexible to be able to expand it as time goes on

if you really not lazy, make the pen out of chests, nowadays i replaced walls with chests, all it needs is to put 4 items in a line, dig out a pit, throw a board, use a rope on it and put one more board on it, make an oven on one side and all chests on that side, then you can just pass over stuff in the chests, store the dead lambs in it making space

nothing changed, you can make more fences now if you plant trees
fences didnt change at all

filled pits should disappear, and then people could fix it properly without having a lot of pits around, heck by that time you could intentionally fill it and make chests

i even seen people dig pits in a grave pen to throw lambs in it, so it will happen with fences too

a lot of us can make a 7x7 pen under 20 min, same for fences is a few hours, now you can have new pen made under that time

until we wont get other mechanics or blocking tiles

side entrances take a bit more effort, but extending sideways is better than extending diagonally cause generally there is a road or structure in diagonal, but nothing important sideways (if you place the pen properly in side of the city in big empty useless space)

if someone made a pit pen, at least you can put horizontal chests and vertical fences around it

Last edited by pein (2018-09-25 08:29:00)

Jk Howling · 2018-09-25 17:46:52

If you have at least 16 or more maple trees around you, you can make 8 fences per hour, you could make a decently sized sheep pen by generation 3 or 4, and have a nice looking, functioning sheep pen that can't be as easily griefed (intentionally or unintentionally) by just throwing dead lambs, leaves, tinder, anything.

Except that's wrong, it's actually easier to grief a fence pen. Legit all you need to do is click on any fence in the pen and boom, the straight shaft is in your hands and there's a gap for the sheep to run through. Legit takes 2 seconds and renders your entire argument void lmao.

Sure trash pits don't look anywhere near as nice. But why would anyone spend several generations and a ton of straight shafts into a fence pen when it's one click away from being griefed? When they could finish a less griefable pen in a fraction of the time and with a fraction of the resources?

Until Jason decides to either nerf trash pits or make fences cheaper and less griefable, nobody's going to stop building them.

Last edited by Jk Howling (2018-09-25 17:47:56)

Turnipseed · 2018-09-25 18:18:34

Fence+shovel = loose sheep
20 items+pit = loose sheep
theory debunked

Pits take longer to grief, and are therefore better to use as sheep pens.

Also they are
Easier to make.
Easier to fix.
Easier to expand.

Yes they are ugly, but until a better solution is given to us they are the best solution.

boggers · 2018-09-25 18:19:27

Jk Howling wrote:

Except that's wrong, it's actually easier to grief a fence pen. Legit all you need to do is click on any fence in the pen and boom, the straight shaft is in your hands and there's a gap for the sheep to run through. Legit takes 2 seconds and renders your entire argument void lmao.
Sure trash pits don't look anywhere near as nice. But why would anyone spend several generations and a ton of straight shafts into a fence pen when it's one click away from being griefed? When they could finish a less griefable pen in a fraction of the time and with a fraction of the resources?
Until Jason decides to either nerf trash pits or make fences cheaper and less griefable, nobody's going to stop building them.

Only east-west fences can be opened like that. You can make permanent fence pens out of corners and north-south fences, with the entrance made from fence posts the same way people use filled pits.

It's not as ugly as trash pits but still ugly.

Joriom · 2018-09-25 18:19:58

Jk Howling wrote:

Until Jason decides to either nerf trash pits or make fences cheaper and less griefable, nobody's going to stop building them.

... and thats why we can't have nice things. Thats also why you play singleplayer games if you want things to look nice.

voy178 · 2018-09-25 18:22:26

I don't think we should design our towns are griefers. If they wanna ruin it, fine. We'll just cover the fence and add some sheep to it again. Who cares? Griefers just want attention.

We need to focus on building nice societies. No one has built a city with structure, and most just build buildingless villages with pits everywhere. Also teleporters and these Stonehedge farms. It's ugly. Let's build something pretty.

Joriom · 2018-09-25 18:28:21

voy178 wrote:

It's ugly. Let's build something pretty.

And we found the person who gets stabbed the most in every village

Anshin · 2018-09-25 18:32:43

Clearly the future needs electric fences, and if you touch them it should make a nice shocking sound maybe frazzle the screen a bit and loose you a health point. LOL

Turnipseed · 2018-09-25 18:50:30

Anshin wrote:

Clearly the future needs electric fences, and if you touch them it should make a nice shocking sound maybe frazzle the screen a bit and loose you a health point. LOL

Lol your hand gets stuck and someone has to poke you off with a straight shaft....

Need rubber gloves to remove wire if not you get electrocuted till you starve >: }

I am Pharo · 2018-09-25 19:03:34

Trash pit pens with berry bush entrances are the the meta right now,
and I like it. Def agree that fences are super easy to grief.
You can warn someone about where to place the dead baby lambs,
and if they ignore you, stabbing or shooting them is an option.
If its fences, by the time you notice, you could have a whole side open.
I accidentally hit fences with a shovel from time to time,
and have to rush to grab stakes, a round stone.

I wish the meta for a pen included more boxes as barriers,
but I've noticed most villages don't have dedicated milkweed farms until after sheep,
you know, unless you get a hand full of veterans in your town.

This week I saw the best of both worlds: a trash pen was outlined and reinforced by fence kits.

voy178 · 2018-09-25 19:35:50

Joriom wrote:

voy178 wrote:
It's ugly. Let's build something pretty.
And we found the person who gets stabbed the most in every village

Never been murdered because of something like that. How bad can a functional and aesthetic structure be? It doesn't hurt anyone.

Go! Bwah! · 2018-09-25 19:45:24

voy178 wrote:

How bad can a functional and aesthetic structure be?

Christopher Alexander to thread 3991, please... Christopher Alexander to thread 3991...

FounderOne · 2018-09-25 23:13:28

voy178 wrote:

Joriom wrote:
voy178 wrote:
It's ugly. Let's build something pretty.
And we found the person who gets stabbed the most in every village
Never been murdered because of something like that. How bad can a functional and aesthetic structure be? It doesn't hurt anyone.

There was once a legendary Town on server 3. It was called ovenpost. It had quadratic areas that were seperated by fences.
It was a really good looking town, but then the day x came and a bad guy took all the straight shafts from the fences - All - and there were everywhere fences he then took a flint chip and made all Straughn shafts to tongs.

Well in the end the good force won and the town name was written in huge letters with the tongs, but it was several days a complete mess.

pein · 2018-09-25 23:50:41

also dont forget tools, if i can get a hoe done and and find a branch in 100 tile radius, i wont care, i will dig up your fence, swap to EW and take the long shaft off of it, btw that can replace berry bush entrance, a fence with no brand also blocks animals stepping on them, wont block going out if the next 3 tiles are empty

people are good at planting berry, why dont we just surround sheep with berry?
b-berry, o-open
this is a 5x5 inside pen made out of berry:
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbooooobbbb
bbbbooooobbbb
bbbbooooobbbb
bbbbooooobbbb
bbbbooooobbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb

16x4+20x4, thats 64+80=144 bushes, 288 bowl of soil, around 180 baskets of soil or just a few more hoes
from scratch
but if you see a 14 wide berry field, just get 25 boards, stick down the middle and plant things around it
hardened row also blocks them going out
so as long as you dont plant carrot, wheat or milkweed, sapling which uses up the soil entirely it will block them
stew plants of 4x5 or 5x5 each
then 5x4 side one can be berry or more stew plants

best part is you already got a huge berry field ready, all you need is board for psychological effect

Last edited by pein (2018-09-25 23:54:13)

Jk Howling · 2018-09-26 00:05:01

pein wrote:

also dont forget tools, if i can get a hoe done and and find a branch in 100 tile radius, i wont care, i will dig up your fence, swap to EW and take the long shaft off of it, btw that can replace berry bush entrance, a fence with no brand also blocks animals stepping on them, wont block going out if the next 3 tiles are empty
people are good at planting berry, why dont we just surround sheep with berry?
b-berry, o-open
this is a 5x5 inside pen made out of berry:
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbooooobbbb
bbbbooooobbbb
bbbbooooobbbb
bbbbooooobbbb
bbbbooooobbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbb
19x8 bushes is 152 which is 304 double soil, 202 baskets of soil or just a few more hoes
from scratch
but if you see a 14 wide berry field, just get 25 boards, stick down the middle and plant things around it
hardened row also blocks them going out
so as long as you dont plant carrot, wheat or milkweed, sapling which uses up the soil entirely it will block them
stew plants of 4x5 or 5x5 each
then 5x4 side one can be berry or more stew plants
best part is you already got a huge berry field ready, all you need is board for psychological effect

Now I just want to see this built in an actual game. There's gotta be someone extreme enough to do it, surely?

pein · 2018-09-26 00:29:45

Jk Howling wrote:

Now I just want to see this built in an actual game. There's gotta be someone extreme enough to do it, surely?

well its extreme to do a rose pen, and i dont ever recommend doing it without wild seeds, if you can put your hands on 20? seeds it wont take a lifetime

cannot promise, cause its a lot of variables
a proof on concept might be possible if i get into a gen3-4 camp where the berry field is big, long, and has open field above or below

getting a sheep into an 1x2 pen and making boards for this project, then taking into the newly made plantation pen can take a good 40 minutes

yeah is griefeable, planting the crops mentioned above, but having the soil tilled there is enough to get it going
people are kinda ok understanding that if its a squash on the left, plant sideways squash
so other than intentional griefing i think i wont get into problems with the human factor

ofc if the city already has a sheep pen, i only need a rope to move one inside such a thing

i give it a go and make a screenshot

Matbat · 2018-09-26 02:00:04

I am Pharo wrote:

Trash pit pens with berry bush entrances are the the meta right now,-

Personally I like using piles of wood over berry bushes or farm plots, easier to remove if you need to let loose over crowded cows or pigs and normal people will leave the pile alone.
I also like using in-the-wall front entrances over corners or out-poking ones, basically a front entrance but pushed in one tile.

VioletLily · 2018-09-26 02:02:59

Jk Howling wrote:

Now I just want to see this built in an actual game. There's gotta be someone extreme enough to do it, surely?

Well, I just tried.

Note: This is a lot bigger than you may think.

I only got it about a third done before I died. It didn't help that I had to make the compost (including planting the carrots and feeding sheep) on my own, as well as make the hoes and clear some land. Someone started planting milkweed in my soil at one point too. XD

Maybe I just chose a bad town to try it in, but the town was running out of berries pretty often, so I figured having another berry field couldn't hurt.

Maybe pein will be faster than I was. Good luck pein!

PS: Pein, if you are going to try this, you might want to bring a friend along to help

pein · 2018-09-26 04:17:27

im positive i can make it with the right conditions

enough boards or just the tools for it
soil and water closeby a big empty space

so far i had 2 lifes, one was a big city with no empty space and i had to compost and i hunted rabbits in meantime
and other was the old decayed allegre town where its not really needed to make one, and i was a girl looking around what has been changed, it was my outpost in north so i still feel for it

pein · 2018-09-26 06:28:28

ok i was in christmas family, i already knew the map, i was there, this time no food issues, small family, mom uncle, great uncle and sis, so i wasnt needed to solve a crisis
the rooms were empty as usual, after the oven decayed they doesnt really wanted to build it back
we still had my oven built near the pen and my wheat field

in one life as a woman dropping kids to others i managed to do an 5x5 board center, tilled all left side, most of bottom and top until the boards, so i had roughly 40 tiles left
i made 8 compost and used up 7 of them? and had a bit of soil and 9 bushes . (7x3x10) /2 is 105 double soil bowls so i was 105/169 ready (around 75% was covered with something, which still block the movement), i was pretty close
some went to berry and some went to wheat, so i lost a bit of soil
i used up an original hoe once cracked, and a new one , and the third was still usable, so probably 4 hoes for the whole project

so is it viable? no
can be done? alone no
i think boards around the 5x5 are neccessary, or people will ruin it for you, you can do it 1 board, 1 flat rock just the outer rim of 5x5, thats 25-9, so 16 tiles
just dump the soil in 2 by 2 each tile and get the sheep inside

now i used compost, so is very situational to get natural soil this much same place
thats 108 baskets to cover this much space, which is 12 compost or 5 soil pits
you dont need to till it, dumping it is enough to block animals
you might need to tell people what it is so they wont plant stuff which doesnt leave hardened row

the biggest berry field i seen was 12 wide, which is almost enough as a top or bottom wall

what can we do to make it viable?
decrease size, 4x4 is not huge but ok to get the job done
this decreases size from 196 tiles down to 144 which is maybe enough
use the berry field as top wall, which can be 12x4=36, down to 108
use 4x4 plots to other crops like stew, corn, squash and beans leave hardened row

now you got 2 x 16 plots left, plant even more stew plants or cabbage/potato, no carrot cause seed row will disappear and lets them out, you can block them with 10 adobe bases or plant stuff

the bottom two parts can also be made into 3x3 wheat and carrot behind those walls

and before you ask, cannot be 3x3, cause it still needs 4 to block animals
and messing in editor i figured out that you can turn walls inside out and fill between with berry and uses same 16 walls but looks dope

its a matter of planning actually, cause the hardened rows are enough no need to plant anything on it, yes its a bowl of soil 'wasted', and if you want to do stew its not that big of a change to plant them this way

just dont ever plant milkweed, sapling, carrot or wheat

Last edited by pein (2018-09-26 07:01:59)

gabal · 2018-09-26 06:52:46

How about making a small cow pen as a proof of concept? Maybe all it would take would be to dig up center from existing huge berry farm?

I spent 20 years bringing branches from all over the map yesterday as a person in village wanted to make a fenced pen. I was helping as I wanted to see is there any benefit to it. It was actually a relief when a boar gutted me, it really takes ages and we could have had a functional pen much longer before if we just made one with trash pits.

VioletLily · 2018-09-26 07:06:06

pein wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/pzvZOXo.png

If I'm not mistaking, sheep can move diagonally, horizonally, and vertically, but not in L-shapes, correct? So would it be possible to make the center space plus the vertical and horizontal spaces, then put some barrier(adobe base, corner wall, ect) at the corners?As long as you block the corners so they can't move in their diagonal paths, the corner sections are unneeded, right? Or am I missing something?

Last edited by VioletLily (2018-09-26 07:09:33)

pein · 2018-09-26 07:18:03

i thought the same thing but they can go from any middle tile to any straight and diagonal direction so if you only block corners they can go out near it diagonally, just check on my secodn picture when its on left bottom corner and goes to right bottom corner, it needs walls all over the sides

now i got a bit confused if its 4 or 3 tiles or lambs 4 tiles , cause that would change a lot
i can test it with 7x8 whatever(rabbit bones) bringing a sheep in middle, if its 4 it goes out, if its 3 it stays in
if its 4 for lams, not good again

cows are different, they step one at a time, 2 if skip on item?

yes i could dig the middle of berry field if its huge, problem is i need someone to water the first bush for me
then if i got a free tile for the shovel i can do the rest

edit-tested lambs surely 4 so needs 4 plants to block it each direction

Last edited by pein (2018-09-26 09:08:09)

VioletLily · 2018-09-26 07:38:22

pein wrote:

i thought the same thing but they can go from any middle tile to any straight and diagonal direction so if you only block corners they can go out near it diagonally, just check on my secodn picture when its on left bottom corner and goes to right bottom corner, it needs walls all over the sides

I knew I was missing something!

In that case, you only need the corner walls to be four tiles in length. Any longer and it would take the sheep more than four spaces to cross diagonally. This is something I'll keep in mind if I make a pen bigger than 4*4. Boxes would make an excellent wall in this case. It would provide a lot of storage for the sheep and farms.

I like the idea. I could see it being built over a couple generations or with group effort.

Last edited by VioletLily (2018-09-26 07:55:21)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-09-25 07:27:19

Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#2 2018-09-25 08:26:53

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#3 2018-09-25 17:46:52

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#4 2018-09-25 18:18:34

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#5 2018-09-25 18:19:27

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#6 2018-09-25 18:19:58

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#7 2018-09-25 18:22:26

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#8 2018-09-25 18:28:21

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#9 2018-09-25 18:32:43

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#10 2018-09-25 18:50:30

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#11 2018-09-25 19:03:34

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#12 2018-09-25 19:35:50

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#13 2018-09-25 19:45:24

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#14 2018-09-25 23:13:28

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#15 2018-09-25 23:50:41

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#16 2018-09-26 00:05:01

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#17 2018-09-26 00:29:45

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#18 2018-09-26 02:00:04

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#19 2018-09-26 02:02:59

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#20 2018-09-26 04:17:27

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#21 2018-09-26 06:28:28

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#22 2018-09-26 06:52:46

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#23 2018-09-26 07:06:06

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#24 2018-09-26 07:18:03

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

#25 2018-09-26 07:38:22

Re: Stop making lazy sheep pens.

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