Update: Dogs and Donkeys

Sovietico21 · 2018-09-18 17:02:36

tana wrote:

it's not a ban, you still can play.
think of it this way, you got caught, you got cursed and sent to "prison" and when you done serving your time you can play in main population again.
As for the big cities, you can grab a basket of food and go away and branch out, or suicide and try to build your own, or you can try to find new players and teach them stuff, big cities are ideal for that purpose since everything is done, theres no urge to survive. As an eve i often have children asking me to teach, i really try, but often i forget cause i'm lost in all the tasks that absolutely need being done for survival and have no time to teach.
Also don't blame experienced players fo respawning in their city, it's how the game mechanic is implanted, there will always be eves spawning in big cities abandonned or not.

Beeing an eve always spawning alone i think it defeats the purpuse of the game, you just cant play this game singleplayer. If there were tons of cursed people i would get it, but with 60 players only on the server, you are just spawning forever alone for the ammout of time you are cursed, so yes, its an effective ban.
And let me remind you, that there is no code of conduct in the game, everyone is free to roam the server and do as he please, that was the concept that made me buy this game. Now im forced to play as part of the comunity wants me to play or else i will be banned. This is heavy change on the game spirit and core.

¿why having a kill mechanic in the game if you are gona ban the one who use it?

Imagine creating a football game, but after some people buy it, then you decide it wont be a football game but a soccer one, is that fair for customers?

Last edited by Sovietico21 (2018-09-18 17:05:11)

I am Pharo · 2018-09-18 18:18:26

The Griefer punishment system is better than ever.
I'm happy to hear they spend their miserable lives in solitary,
having their gaming experience ruined by powers that they can't control,
and then reading them complain about it on the forums is the fresh cherry on top of the sundae of justice.
DELICIOUS!

Kinrany · 2018-09-18 19:00:16

it's not a ban, you still can play.

It forces you to play alone in a game that is fundamentally about collaboration.

Christoffer · 2018-09-18 19:19:19

Kinrany wrote:

it's not a ban, you still can play.
It forces you to play alone in a game that is fundamentally about collaboration.

It could be argued that the cursing system is a way for the players who do want to collaborate to shield themselves from the players who are sabotaging instead of collaborating, don’t you think?

Sovietico21 · 2018-09-18 19:42:08

Christoffer wrote:

Kinrany wrote:
it's not a ban, you still can play.
It forces you to play alone in a game that is fundamentally about collaboration.
It could be argued that the cursing system is a way for the players who do want to collaborate to shield themselves from the players who are sabotaging instead of collaborating, don’t you think?

Then the pvp mechanic should have never been introduce in the first place...
Take this option away from the game, and give the money back to those who you lure into this game because of it.

Last edited by Sovietico21 (2018-09-18 19:42:27)

Christoffer · 2018-09-18 20:59:38

Sovietico21 wrote:

Christoffer wrote:
Kinrany wrote:
It forces you to play alone in a game that is fundamentally about collaboration.
It could be argued that the cursing system is a way for the players who do want to collaborate to shield themselves from the players who are sabotaging instead of collaborating, don’t you think?
Then the pvp mechanic should have never been introduce in the first place...
Take this option away from the game, and give the money back to those who you lure into this game because of it.

I get the impression that you might have misunderstood the purpose of the weapons in the game. From what I have read of Jason’s posts, the primary reason for their PK ability is so you can get rid of griefers (people who play counter to the game’s intentions).

In addition to this, I have read about weapons being used for large armed conflict and even for gladiator challenges, both of which gave the participants lots of mutual enjoyment. (On the mobile version, we are even planning to host a gladiator challenge event in the future, and I’m sure that many people will enjoy it)

And then there’s the (mis)use of the weapons themselves for griefing, which like trolling gives one person enjoyment through causing irritation for others.
There are more people than you who enjoy playing with the weapons. Find such people and challenge each other. Don’t use them on people who don’t appreciate it. Where’s the fun in that, if you really think about it?

My two cents

Sovietico21 · 2018-09-18 21:18:08

Christoffer wrote:

Sovietico21 wrote:
Christoffer wrote:
It could be argued that the cursing system is a way for the players who do want to collaborate to shield themselves from the players who are sabotaging instead of collaborating, don’t you think?
Then the pvp mechanic should have never been introduce in the first place...
Take this option away from the game, and give the money back to those who you lure into this game because of it.
I get the impression that you might have misunderstood the purpose of the weapons in the game. From what I have read of Jason’s posts, the primary reason for their PK ability is so you can get rid of griefers (people who play counter to the game’s intentions).
In addition to this, I have read about weapons being used for large armed conflict and even for gladiator challenges, both of which gave the participants lots of mutual enjoyment. (On the mobile version, we are even planning to host a gladiator challenge event in the future, and I’m sure that many people will enjoy it)
And then there’s the (mis)use of the weapons themselves for griefing, which like trolling gives one person enjoyment through causing irritation for others.
There are more people than you who enjoy playing with the weapons. Find such people and challenge each other. Don’t use them on people who don’t appreciate it. Where’s the fun in that, if you really think about it?
My two cents

Well, i think im playing other game, i have never seen such a thing as duels or gladiators or that stuff in game, and for the first postulate i do not think at all that it was desing for that purpose, to take care of griefers by giving everyone the ability to kill is not a solution worth of a game designer. I think the knife was given for a social mechanic meaning, wich a minority but a very vocal amount of players are against because it doesn't give enjoyment to them.

The thing is that this patch it was thrown upon to please this people, but without any deep though about the meaning of it.
Jason sadly is watering down the game, making it to fulfill the desire of some players.
For me this patch is a deal braker, because it just change the spirit of the game i bought and i ill insist in getting a refund.
Its not a free virtual world anymore, you need to play as some people want you to play, or else get banned...

Christoffer · 2018-09-18 21:51:08

Sovietico21 wrote:

Christoffer wrote:
Sovietico21 wrote:
Then the pvp mechanic should have never been introduce in the first place...
Take this option away from the game, and give the money back to those who you lure into this game because of it.
I get the impression that you might have misunderstood the purpose of the weapons in the game. From what I have read of Jason’s posts, the primary reason for their PK ability is so you can get rid of griefers (people who play counter to the game’s intentions).
In addition to this, I have read about weapons being used for large armed conflict and even for gladiator challenges, both of which gave the participants lots of mutual enjoyment. (On the mobile version, we are even planning to host a gladiator challenge event in the future, and I’m sure that many people will enjoy it)
And then there’s the (mis)use of the weapons themselves for griefing, which like trolling gives one person enjoyment through causing irritation for others.
There are more people than you who enjoy playing with the weapons. Find such people and challenge each other. Don’t use them on people who don’t appreciate it. Where’s the fun in that, if you really think about it?
My two cents
Well, i think im playing other game, i have never seen such a thing as duels or gladiators or that stuff in game, and for the first postulate i do not think at all that it was desing for that purpose, to take care of griefers by giving everyone the ability to kill is not a solution worth of a game designer. I think the knife was given for a social mechanic meaning, wich a minority but a very vocal amount of players are against because it doesn't give enjoyment to them.
The thing is that this patch it was thrown upon to please this people, but without any deep though about the meaning of it.
Jason sadly is watering down the game, making it to fulfill the desire of some players.
For me this patch is a deal braker, because it just change the spirit of the game i bought and i ill insist in getting a refund.
Its not a free virtual world anymore, you need to play as some people want you to play, or else get banned...

Well, that was my impression of the intent, but it might be a partial truth or even none.

Your minority/majority theory seems mathematically implausible to me, seeing as eight people have to use up their curses before one single person gets even a single hour in donkeytown. If a majority saw things like you do, this would very rarely happen and you would not need worry about it. QED.

You obviously feel strongly about this, and that’s ok. Just consider the possibility that a lot of other players feel strongly opposed to being griefed. This is a society simulation of sorts, so why is it strange that the in-game society can punish what it perceives as crimes? That I don’t understand?

Anyway, I hope you will find something to enjoy without getting others to curse you. Peace out.

The_Llamacorn · 2018-09-19 05:46:34

Oh man, I just love seeing griefers trying to make an argument for themselves, victimizing themselves as much as possible; "The game is unplayable after this update!" "I want a refund!". A refund for what, for something you did? Oh man, this is just hilarious.

Joriom · 2018-09-19 08:00:19

If you want a refund because you feel like you have resticted access to the game features or if you call Donkey Town an actual "ban", you might be interested in my latest post cracking down your actual rights to the product your bought and what it really is that you bought - because there are a lot of people who missunderstand what they purchased and under what terms.

Superfun2 · 2018-09-19 22:03:29

I made a Bot guide on how to BOT yourself out of donkey town OVERNIGHT

jasonrohrer · 2018-09-21 18:22:32

Man, I'm tired of repeating myself.

"PVP mechanics" are not in this game for no reason. They are necessary to prevent griefing. You have to be able to kill people in order to enforce rules in your village. This is true in real life as well. The police have the power to kill you, eventually. That is why the laws have meaning.

If I removed a "PVP mechainics" from the game, what would that mean? How would you stop someone from grabbing your tool as soon as you set it down? How would you stop someone from planting the wrong thing in your field? How would you stop someone from opening your sheep pen and letting all the sheep out? What about the guy who just follows you around spouting gibberish?

The idea that "PVP" means only "killing other players" is nonsense. There are an infinite number of ways to bother other players.

And killing is the way that you can stop them. A dead player can't steal your tools or free your sheep.

The only alternative, if I wanted to build a game with absolutely no PVP, is to have every single thing in the game "locked down" with full ownership. If you plow it, only you can plant it. Only you can open your sheep pen. If you set down a tool, only you can pick it up.

That obviously sounds like a pretty horrible game, and it also makes little sense in the context of working together and passing on things to the next generation. There would need to be a very fiddly and complicated permission and inheritance UI.... ugg... And even then, there would still be griefing.... people chasing others around jabbering. Unless I had full tresspassing rules hard-coded.... but anyway, that's not a very interesting game.

So yes, the intention was ALWAYS that people would kill trolls and griefers. That's what the weapons are there for. That's what we use weapons for in real life.

The one little wrinkle here is reincarnation. We don't have that in real life. That means the same damn griefer can keep bugging you, forever. Death just isn't strong enough.

The curse system, and Donkey Town, are a way to balance this out. A way to compensate for reincarnation.

I have never promised you that you could grief people endlessly, with no consequences. I always expected that you would get murdered. Now I expect that you will get cursed.

sanchez · 2018-09-22 04:54:29

jasonrohrer wrote:

Man, I'm tired of repeating myself.
"PVP mechanics" are not in this game for no reason. They are necessary to prevent griefing. You have to be able to kill people in order to enforce rules in your village. This is true in real life as well. The police have the power to kill you, eventually. That is why the laws have meaning.
If I removed a "PVP mechainics" from the game, what would that mean? How would you stop someone from grabbing your tool as soon as you set it down? How would you stop someone from planting the wrong thing in your field? How would you stop someone from opening your sheep pen and letting all the sheep out? What about the guy who just follows you around spouting gibberish?
The idea that "PVP" means only "killing other players" is nonsense. There are an infinite number of ways to bother other players.
And killing is the way that you can stop them. A dead player can't steal your tools or free your sheep.

The only alternative, if I wanted to build a game with absolutely no PVP, is to have every single thing in the game "locked down" with full ownership. If you plow it, only you can plant it. Only you can open your sheep pen. If you set down a tool, only you can pick it up.
That obviously sounds like a pretty horrible game, and it also makes little sense in the context of working together and passing on things to the next generation. There would need to be a very fiddly and complicated permission and inheritance UI.... ugg... And even then, there would still be griefing.... people chasing others around jabbering. Unless I had full tresspassing rules hard-coded.... but anyway, that's not a very interesting game.

So yes, the intention was ALWAYS that people would kill trolls and griefers. That's what the weapons are there for. That's what we use weapons for in real life.

The one little wrinkle here is reincarnation. We don't have that in real life. That means the same damn griefer can keep bugging you, forever. Death just isn't strong enough.

The curse system, and Donkey Town, are a way to balance this out. A way to compensate for reincarnation.

I have never promised you that you could grief people endlessly, with no consequences. I always expected that you would get murdered. Now I expect that you will get cursed.

Give non lethal alternative to things that require knife currently

Glassius · 2018-09-27 15:47:06

sanchez wrote:

Give non lethal alternative to things that require knife currently

You mean, more violence? Than support my suggestion from signature

As we already have quite good lethal wounds/medicine system, the only missing points are non lethal wounds and crawling near to die. I think, I will reshape my original idea.

Mr. Milkweed · 2018-09-28 00:08:58

jasonrohrer wrote:

Man, I'm tired of repeating myself.
"PVP mechanics" are not in this game for no reason. They are necessary to prevent griefing. You have to be able to kill people in order to enforce rules in your village. This is true in real life as well. The police have the power to kill you, eventually. That is why the laws have meaning.
If I removed a "PVP mechainics" from the game, what would that mean? How would you stop someone from grabbing your tool as soon as you set it down? How would you stop someone from planting the wrong thing in your field? How would you stop someone from opening your sheep pen and letting all the sheep out? What about the guy who just follows you around spouting gibberish?
The idea that "PVP" means only "killing other players" is nonsense. There are an infinite number of ways to bother other players.
And killing is the way that you can stop them. A dead player can't steal your tools or free your sheep.

The only alternative, if I wanted to build a game with absolutely no PVP, is to have every single thing in the game "locked down" with full ownership. If you plow it, only you can plant it. Only you can open your sheep pen. If you set down a tool, only you can pick it up.
That obviously sounds like a pretty horrible game, and it also makes little sense in the context of working together and passing on things to the next generation. There would need to be a very fiddly and complicated permission and inheritance UI.... ugg... And even then, there would still be griefing.... people chasing others around jabbering. Unless I had full tresspassing rules hard-coded.... but anyway, that's not a very interesting game.

So yes, the intention was ALWAYS that people would kill trolls and griefers. That's what the weapons are there for. That's what we use weapons for in real life.

The one little wrinkle here is reincarnation. We don't have that in real life. That means the same damn griefer can keep bugging you, forever. Death just isn't strong enough.

The curse system, and Donkey Town, are a way to balance this out. A way to compensate for reincarnation.

I have never promised you that you could grief people endlessly, with no consequences. I always expected that you would get murdered. Now I expect that you will get cursed.

How about being able to use rope to tie somebody up? Maybe make it require two people unless it's a child or an elder, to help reduce the chance of griefers using it against peaceful folk.

I do like the murder mechanic simply for how it's occasional drama helps to break up the mundane. I only ever did it when asked to twice, and once when I accidentally shot a mother holding her baby trying to throw my hat on the ground for the lil tyke. It does go too far at times. The other night I found an abandoned twin city area a past life had lived in. It had seemingly been wiped out in a murder spree, with 4 knives scattered about. I grabbed a backpack and an apron, grabbed the cutlery, hopped on a horse, then rode out and hurled it to a trio of rattlesnakes.

Last edited by Mr. Milkweed (2018-09-28 00:24:41)

Booklat1 · 2018-09-28 11:03:12

Mr. Milkweed wrote:

How about being able to use rope to tie somebody up?

how about we realize that if jason only ever works on fixing grief this game will never progress? Honestly, plenty of ways of dealing with griefers, specially after this update

Mr. Milkweed · 2018-09-28 21:36:45

Booklat1 wrote:

Mr. Milkweed wrote:
How about being able to use rope to tie somebody up?
how about we realize that if jason only ever works on fixing grief this game will never progress? Honestly, plenty of ways of dealing with griefers, specially after this update

How about you don't come at people sideways when they make a suggestion for something that's being discussed in a thread?

Binding somebody is literally a legitimate, real world use for rope, and I don't seem to recall constantly complaining about griefers or begging Jason to take care of them. He literally just took care of them in this update, I was commenting to try to find a middle ground between the mobs of griefplainers and how a solution could be implemented into the game without contradicting the developer's plans to keep PVP.

I wholeheartedly agree with the PVP being kept, it seems cities and even some small villages just need a sheriff or something, somebody equipped with weapons, policing berry and carrot pickers, monitoring everybody's roles and important tools, and performing small tasks such as watering crops and maintaining the fire. The only issue would be ensuring succession of the role doesn't land on anybody that is suspect.

Honestly though, some of you forum members are worse than any griefer I've ever met in this game. Please don't kill this game by running everybody off with your poor attitudes.

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Re: Update: Dogs and Donkeys

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