Don't Farm Mangoes

Stylingirl · 2018-10-30 18:02:05

Farming mangoes have been changed now. It now takes a basket of soil and a bucket of water to make mango trees bear fruit. This means it gives 176 food in an hour at the cost of 10 water and 3 soil. For comparison, an efficiently farmed berry bush can produce 210 food at the cost of 6 soil and 6 water. I think the growth timer should at least be reduced for mango trees because waiting 60 minutes for a tree to bear fruit at the current cost is too much. Farming mango trees are now useless, if you want yellow paint, just pick the leaves and bring them home. There is no reason to farm mango trees anymore, even getting them for yum bonus isn't worth it.

Tl;dr Mangoes take too much time to grow and cost a lot of soil and water for little food

jasonrohrer · 2018-10-30 20:32:18

Hold on there....

Mangoes are 58 food per unit soil.

Berries are only 35 per unit soil.

There's also the tending to think about. A mango tree only needs to be tended once per hour. A berry bush needs to be tended multiple times per hour.

Also, a mango tree can never die from neglect.

Booklat1 · 2018-10-30 20:32:30

I really wish mangos took limestone fertilizer instead of soil. It runs out like iron and is a different change of pace in iron economy.

PeaGirl · 2018-10-30 20:53:05

So you add a feature only to undermine it because it is not efficient? At least nerf it so that it is at least somewhat considerable choice and not something that is there "just for fun"

Besides, mangoes can be quite huge as well, so it would make little sense to make them provide less food.

Last edited by PeaGirl (2018-10-30 20:54:41)

Tarr · 2018-10-30 21:28:16

jasonrohrer wrote:

Hold on there....
Mangoes are 58 food per unit soil.
Berries are only 35 per unit soil.

No offence Jason but when have we cared about soil over water? We've always been able to just make more soil on the fly as long as we have the carrots/berries/poop. We can't just make more water on the fly like we can compost. The fact it takes a whole bucket of water to take care of the mango trees absolutely kill it.

You wait an hour and a half to get it to languishing... You grow a tree to dump more stuff into it to get a meager reward after two and a half hours. Yeah you can ignore it forever and not have the tree die but that's exactly what people are going to do now. Ignore the tree until the map culls it.

I don't know what a mango tree did to hurt you but I'm sorry.

Tramax · 2018-10-31 01:07:07

Tarr you say we can't make more water... But what if the next update we can?!
Just imagine! The power of condensation - we make glass panes and then you have to talk next to them long enough for them to fog up then you can lick them and then spit into a bucket. Then, you take the spitwater and then put it in a potion which turns Eves into a bug then you squash the bug creating bug juice. Using a tunic you then filter the juice into more water! Using the bug water you travel across biomes until you find a cactus, which you then feed the bug water. Finally, you take a baby and spike it on the cactus. It will cry sweet infinite tears which you can collect! It's brrrrrrrialiant I say! Brilliant brilliant brilliant!

Tarr · 2018-10-31 01:48:23

I mean the next level of tech for water is more than likely the water pump which won't exactly just create water out of thin air. It's just a weird sort of situation where players value one thing more than others at different times.

For example: The one time I could think of people cared about soil effectiveness was when you could use worms to till rows of soil. At the time you had two option: either you would allow worms to till the row for an hour to fix it or you dumped more soil on the hard row and just smacked it with a hoe like before.

People picked option one and just moved the farm some tiles away from the old farm while the worms did their magic. Why? It was both seen as wasting soil to just quick fix the soil and it used extra charges of the hoe.

Even if composting kills your shovel I feel people are inclined to care more about water than they will soil. When a water shortage occurs people have to actually get up off their butts and go searching for the stuff vs a soil shortage which is easily fixed by one to two people caring to start making more compost.

I'm not exactly sure how nerfed composting/tools have to be for the the balance to shift over to caring less about water but what I do know is that as long as dry milk cows to stay as they are I can never justify watering a mango tree.

(For those that don't know dry cows do not degrade into regular domestic cows, you can just leave them in the dry state then water and milk, rinse and repeat. Even though onetech says they degrade go and test it.)

Booklat1 · 2018-10-31 02:35:59

Oh, i was following onetech on cows, they're still OP then.

I do think mangos are okay, people will tend them if low on iron and cows are fixed. We should let these nerfs set in before really judging food sources too much. I think the idea of splitting iron mines in more tiers would help rebalance these things too.

Tarr · 2018-10-31 02:47:05

Yeah I figured they would have been fixed but I was able to just keep watering/milking a cow like before. Ended up painting the last few walls of the town with the colorful bakery only ever needing to water the cow never having to worry about feeding or it changing back to a normal domestic. I'm happy to see how the nerf messes around with the meta but I just don't think a town naturally lives long enough for them to ever need to worry about long term iron shortages.

I don't think we'll see how the nerfs directly change if people eat mangoes until all the mango towns are culled or all the original mango trees are cut down. It just seems too costly in the current game climate for someone to want to fool around with mango trees but only time will tell if people will keep tending to them.

jasonrohrer · 2018-10-31 15:27:33

Water is renewable, and infinite long-term, soil is not.

You currently feel like you have infinite soil. You do not have infinite soil. Producing soil consumes iron. You just had enough soil to live for 242 real-world days (longer than the game has been out), so it felt infinite.

Now you have enough soil to live for 48 real-world days.

In a few weeks, after the frog is fully boiled you will have enough soil to live for 1-2 real-world days. Iron trade, mining outposts, and migration will become a necessity to keep a family line going.

You can't eat water.

The idea has always been that everything runs out.

Water used to run out, but I decided at some point that it made no sense. So I switched to soil running out (based directly on worms at first, and then indirectly based on iron), but made it really loose at first (with the intention of boiling the frog later), but caught up in other things, and forgot to boil the frog. So the frog has been sitting there in room temperature water for five months.

Tarr · 2018-10-31 15:54:02

But you can eat water through milk. Cows are still bugged at the moment to not change from dry to domestic the only reason I even know this is because of doing so much painting. If I wanted I could just trade one bowl of water for a bucket of milk and whenever I got hungry again go get a new bowl of water and a fresh bucket of milk.

Obviously this is a bug that needs to get fixed since trading raw water whenever you want for so much food is just terrible balance. Onetech might say that cows degrade but go and test it either in game or on your server. I've had multiple forever dry cows in different towns and have been able to on demand fetch myself milk for food or paint (mostly paint because milk too op.)

I'm glad to see you starting to boil the frog at this point and making us either have to go out and fetch more iron or just leave an area all together. But we have another bug that is going to mess all of that up. On server reset stacked items go from whatever stack they are to max. I was able to create 36 iron from my two full stacks of iron by two stacking all of them.

Even if I'm one of the few people who know both these things (item duplication was reported on github, I only recently found out about cows still being broken) someone is bound to put two and two together.

I have no problem with things completely running out but if I can avoid iron usage through soil and just make massive amounts of iron(or steel) once a week or biweekly if something happens I won't ever run out.

pein · 2018-10-31 16:17:35

technically each pond you don't drain is water wasted
now this could be a legit strategy to collect all water into cisterns

i seen towns die out over and over because of no water, i didn't really seen towns die out of no soil
yeah, it took 9 generation for a town and they collected wild soil in carts until i returned and got the sheep
but after that someone always does some compost
the reason no one makes potatoes is same, it still uses water and still uses shovel heavily

now with 66 on shallow and 160 on deep well mangoes are bad

seems that ease of use has been a major factor since the start

carrots are faster but needs micromanagement
berries are nerfed but are still used cause newbies know how to eat it

people not doing things because its optimal, people do it either because they want to try it or because is simple
ive been ranting about corn still being most efficient due to overeating loss
they still hard to maintain

pie making was favorite job of most people since the start
people make the first room for bakery, and most newbies chitchat there or the berry field
forging tools was the most responsible job, but now everyone can do it, and kinda bored of it

generally goes like this:
people are too lazy to make baskets so they make a huge bakery with lot of tiles, they take the adobe from forges, they take the baskets from everywhere to store pies, they expect you to carry the mutton from other side of the town and to collect the plates for them

now i don't really know a way to enforce them to do it differently, i can optimize pens and make bakery near it, i can plant berries differently or make roads near them but still wont change the opinion of majority

making compost harder affects the players who think about the future

maybe should be 2 levels of compost
one that everyone can do, and one that is more optimal
maybe food should decay and decayed food could be used to make a small compost pile which only gives 3-4 baskets
and the big one gives 7-8 with all the extra work

maybe should be other type of bushes with food, just like berries, which are not berries

the one thing i know, veteran players don't really have a way to enforce others to do things efficiently
i been spending a whole life undoing what someone else did in a life, and it still turned to be exactly as bad later on

so for ths sake there are things which require a buff, to allow other things used more often
boxes, i would put boxes everywhere if it would be easy to do so, and i can imagine corn and carrot would be used more often
barrells, cages, jars, there are a few things that could improve order

if letters would be cheaper to make, we would do signs telling not to do things

especially now that we got a lot of conflicting food sources like eggs vs pies vs buttered bread

i feel like each update just makes it a headache for the veterans who run the town and others just cause problems over time without realizing it, and to fix those problems, you need a full life of fixing, digging bushes out, planting trees, makign buttered bread, making bread, making baskets. not the most fun experience

jasonrohrer · 2018-10-31 17:24:42

Didn't know about the bugged cows.

Also, that stack thing on server reset is a problem, hmm....

Mitz · 2018-10-31 20:01:29

we still only have very few options to survive.
we need more berry types, more water sources, or a way to turn salt water buckets into fresh water.
if we could convince newbies to move off of gooseberries with something more challenging by recipe but more worthawhile we'd have a bit more usefullness.
hard difficulty is what i think normal foods should be - it'll shoo away newbs, but i hope food can last longer when all long-lasting foods (Like bread) have a bit more nutrition. except bread. i still think it's pretty good.
Eve starts should still be possible and easy. absolutely. but make more bread or pie foods - not talking more grain foods, i'm talking more complicated meals.
and yes, we need stacking wheat. i beg you.
make some main meal with milk &/or eggs & some other crops. just make sure it's worth its time.
my thoughts, jason.

Starknight_One · 2018-10-31 20:10:42

Mitz wrote:

we still only have very few options to survive.
we need more berry types, more water sources, or a way to turn salt water buckets into fresh water.
if we could convince newbies to move off of gooseberries with something more challenging by recipe but more worthawhile we'd have a bit more usefullness.
hard difficulty is what i think normal foods should be - it'll shoo away newbs, but i hope food can last longer when all long-lasting foods (Like bread) have a bit more nutrition. except bread. i still think it's pretty good.
Eve starts should still be possible and easy. absolutely. but make more bread or pie foods - not talking more grain foods, i'm talking more complicated meals.
and yes, we need stacking wheat. i beg you.
make some main meal with milk &/or eggs & some other crops. just make sure it's worth its time.
my thoughts, jason.

shepherds pie
put a carrot in a bowl
add a raw potato
chop with a sharp stone or knife
add mutton
chop
put in pie and bake

desert holiday pie
put cactus fruit in bowl
smash with stone to make cactus fruit juice
chop and deseed squash
add to bowl of cactus fruit juice
smash with stone to get pie filling
put in pie and bake

Hmm... how about non-pie options?

sunday roast (2 servings)
put carrot in bowl
add raw potato
chop
add mutton
add plate to make sunday roast pan (uncooked)
cook in oven
remove plate and eat

Mitz · 2018-10-31 20:34:52

Starknight_One wrote:

shepherds pie
put a carrot in a bowl
add a raw potato
chop with a sharp stone or knife
add mutton
chop
put in pie and bake
desert holiday pie
put cactus fruit in bowl
smash with stone to make cactus fruit juice
chop and deseed squash
add to bowl of cactus fruit juice
smash with stone to get pie filling
put in pie and bake
Hmm... how about non-pie options?
sunday roast (2 servings)
...

very nice. with the current nerfs i think this is a very good idea.
buns? or a baking sheet? that'd be cool! could allow for more expansion. buns, cookies, hmm... we could use some sorta salad. mayonaise for the heck of it.
food expansion part 2 pls jason!

Potjeh · 2018-10-31 22:03:00

Pork dishes pls. Roast pork, bacon, sausages etc.

jasonrohrer · 2018-10-31 22:06:02

Stacks (and locks) have been fixed when the server restarts. Their states are remembered and restored now. No more full berry bushes, wells, etc. after restart either. Also no more universal locks after restart. The only hole in the implementation is currently used objects that are in containers. They currently become unused after restart. Implementing that correctly would have been more complicated, and it's not as important as the stacks and locks.

And the dry milk cow thing was an obvious bug.

These are both things that have been malfunctioning for many months and were never reported to me.

Tarr · 2018-10-31 22:08:40

I reported dry milk cows on August 25th. I thought they had be fixed since then or I would have brought that back up at some point.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3572

Glad to see locks finally getting fixed. Having to make extra key - ? was incredibly annoying to do so.

Mitz · 2018-10-31 22:12:34

the cries for more challenging or bigger variety of food were ignored.

FeverDog · 2018-11-01 09:41:18

One of my favorite things to do is make baskets and boxes. I know the broken windows theory has been discredited but I still think there's some truth to it. That is, that visible signs of disorder (pies all over the damn place) encourages further disorder (suicides, people abandoning jobs or hope). So it's my opinion that an orderly bakery matters a great deal.

tana · 2018-11-01 10:38:33

yeah but please, stop making boxes just on either side of an oven, it blocks so much movements. we can normally bake from all 4 sides of an oven, so we can spread uncooked food all around it and have 4 players baking without being in each other's way.
also don't cut the bread immediately where you dropped it after cooking, it blocks the workspace, instead go spread it around the berry bushes, so that new players see there are alternative food sources and won't just munch on the berries by default.

boggers · 2018-11-01 16:33:55

jasonrohrer wrote:

And the dry milk cow thing was an obvious bug.
These are both things that have been malfunctioning for many months and were never reported to me.

There goes OHOL's best kept secret.

Nobody reported it because nobody wanted the dry milk cow exploit fixed.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-10-30 18:02:05

Don't Farm Mangoes

#2 2018-10-30 20:32:18

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#3 2018-10-30 20:32:30

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#4 2018-10-30 20:53:05

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#5 2018-10-30 21:28:16

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#6 2018-10-31 01:07:07

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#7 2018-10-31 01:48:23

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#8 2018-10-31 02:35:59

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#9 2018-10-31 02:47:05

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#10 2018-10-31 15:27:33

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#11 2018-10-31 15:54:02

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#12 2018-10-31 16:17:35

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#13 2018-10-31 17:24:42

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#14 2018-10-31 20:01:29

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#15 2018-10-31 20:10:42

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#16 2018-10-31 20:34:52

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#17 2018-10-31 22:03:00

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#18 2018-10-31 22:06:02

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#19 2018-10-31 22:08:40

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#20 2018-10-31 22:12:34

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#21 2018-11-01 09:41:18

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#22 2018-11-01 10:38:33

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

#23 2018-11-01 16:33:55

Re: Don't Farm Mangoes

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