Baby Crisis

MultiLife · 2018-11-17 09:50:12

Yesterday I was born to 2nd gen to an Eve in grasslands. She had a veteran daughter so I stayed (planned to start a camp elsewhere). Scouting around, I realized the place is really bad; no ponds, no soil, everything was far (like clay) and many biomes were empty. The veteran girl died to a snake so I thought I'll just go and find a better camp area instead. I abandoned babies by running, no way I raise you before finding a spot. I did find an awesome pond swamp area but a wolf got me. Damnit.
I have played the game of baby abandoning from the baby side too. It took five tries to get to a mom who could keep me. I don't mind the baby abandonment because usually it is for a very good reason. Newbies may not realize how heavy those reasons are and get frustrated that the mom won't raise them, again.

Yesterday I was also a mom who kept all babies. A girl baby got furious at this, exclaiming we have no food and that I am a newbie for keeping triplets, adding "I'm out" and stormed off. Little did she know, I was a stew master at the time; I had two raw stew pots incoming with a third one waiting for me to add corn. Also all my other kids had died and kept dying because they relied on berries. I made pies, omelettes, popcorn and grilled rabbit and fish in addition to stew; the population did shift but people kept dying to berry famine.
All my kids died in the end. Nobody got to 10 years. I had 8 kids. We had horses so I hauled soil for my stew farm and left everything watered for the next stew master. Was gonna haul soil for the berry farm too but got too old, and water was out anyways.

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-11-17 17:49:18)

Catfive · 2018-11-17 17:56:12

They're improving. Each time I login there seem to be a few more clued up ones amongst the hordes of nubs. Nowhere near experienced yet ofc but nevertheless, a couple more who understand more than just berries and a couple more actually seeking out soil and water sources, even a composter today! It is just a matter of time, painful, frustrating, chaotic and hilarious time

Starknight_One · 2018-11-17 18:22:03

Catfive wrote:

They're improving. Each time I login there seem to be a few more clued up ones amongst the hordes of nubs. Nowhere near experienced yet ofc but nevertheless, a couple more who understand more than just berries and a couple more actually seeking out soil and water sources, even a composter today! It is just a matter of time, painful, frustrating, chaotic and hilarious time

Yeah, a few of the more vocal "MAKE IT EASIER" folks on Steam are calming down, now that they have more hours under their belt and it's not as super-frustrating to them. And they're improving rapidly. I think we have some good kids here, just have to keep raising them with tough love.

IronBear · 2018-11-18 18:37:59

CrazyEddie wrote:

Reading over the older forum threads, I'm getting the impression that prior to the Steam launch the spawning dynamics were different (and I don't just mean the change to the Eve spawn distances).
My experience as a new player from Steam has been frustrating. And I get that the game is supposed to be frustrating to a certain extent, but I don't think that what's happening now is what Jason intended.
My experience is that most of my spawns are either as a baby that gets abandoned by Eve, as one of four babies that Eve is trying to keep alive and so Eve and babies all die, as Eve who then gets four babies and so we all die, or MAYBE if I'm lucky I'll spawn into a town that's getting hammered with babies but is doing well enough that some of us can live to an old age.
I know that baby booms have always been a part of the game and that they put stress on a town deliberately, but what I've been seeing seems pretty devastating. Couple that with the fact that almost all the players are new and have no idea what they're doing, and you can pretty much guarantee that few camps will survive to become villages and that few villages will survive to become towns.
But what's worse is that this is a vicious cycle. Baby booms leave the experienced mothers with little time to teach new players. Failing camps and villages means fewer stable towns for new players to spawn into, where the pressures are light enough that they can learn basic skills that would help them in camps and villages.
Perhaps the mother-baby cooldown time should be lengthened. That would lighten the load on all players at every stage of the game, giving everyone more breathing room to explore and learn about the game. It would reduce the pressure on Eves and lead more of them to raise their kids instead of abandoning them. And it would lead to more Eves (because there would be fewer opportunities to be born to an existing mother), which is good, because being an Eve (without the pressure of babies) is where you learn the most important survival and camp-building skills. And paradoxically, it would also lead to more towns, because with the pressure lightened camps and villages will more often survive into the advanced stages.
Because, let me tell you - the most frustrating thing about this game is the sheer number of times that I sit there as an abandoned baby with nothing to do but wait to die. This is not fun. This is anti-fun, and I am hard pressed to imagine that this is part of Jason's vision.

The thing is CrazyEddie, being a baby is more than a just something inflicted on you. It is a skill set to master also. Too many people expect to be carried through babihood to the "real game". But even at this phase you need to be be active in your own survival. Like for example:

1) Know how to beg for food and where
2) Know where to find a good place to rest and mature
3) Know when to follow mom or stay put
4) Know when to abandon your mom and look for aid elsewhere
5) Know how to be calm so people can help you.

Being a baby is the most difficult job in the game and you can't goof off. That is why so many babies die, they get impatient and don't take their situation serious.

Last edited by IronBear (2018-11-18 18:39:00)

CrazyEddie · 2018-11-18 19:20:58

None of that has anything to do with being born and immediately abandoned, or with too many babies arriving simultaneously and thereby overwhelming the mothers. Those are the two issues I'm complaining about, and are the reason I've suggested increasing the baby cooldown period during this period of newbie influx.

IronBear · 2018-11-19 01:13:36

CrazyEddie wrote:

None of that has anything to do with being born and immediately abandoned, or with too many babies arriving simultaneously and thereby overwhelming the mothers. Those are the two issues I'm complaining about, and are the reason I've suggested increasing the baby cooldown period during this period of newbie influx.

That is where you are totally wrong. I can't tell you how many times a mom abandoned me. But either i chased her down and she realized I was competent player, or I found another player to foster me. I have found that demonstrating you are competent player has gotten players to reverse the abandonment like 50% of the time. And when ever the reason for abandonment was baby overload I usually was the one picked to survive like 80% of the time.

A stressed player is looking for signals that you know what you are doing. This game is ruthless and parent will pick its survival over that of a bad player every time. I have abandoned many a baby when I was desperate. But when I found that berry bush and that little abandoned baby comes trotting up to me, I know I have a smart player and I work hard to get it to childhood And there is many a time when I was just slightly stressed (like rabbit hunting or wilderness gathering) and I walked away to test the baby. You send signals you are good player by being a good baby player and you will find your survival rate going up dramatically.

What you described is a "problem" has been in the game since day one. It is not a bug, it is a feature. Get better. Quit approaching babyhood as phase to be carried through.

Last edited by IronBear (2018-11-19 01:14:30)

CrazyEddie · 2018-11-19 06:21:27

Okay, I take your point. But even so, it's still a terrible experience for new players - they won't know to do any of those things, or be able to do them well, and thus will still spend many of their spawns watching their mother run away while they wait to die.

Bad new player experiences are bad for the game's survival and bad for Jason's income.

IronBear · 2018-11-19 06:31:31

CrazyEddie wrote:

Okay, I take your point. But even so, it's still a terrible experience for new players - they won't know to do any of those things, or be able to do them well, and thus will still spend many of their spawns watching their mother run away while they wait to die.
Bad new player experiences are bad for the game's survival and bad for Jason's income.

I agree that having the hardest part of the game right at the beginning is an bad result of the theme. In the big scheme of thing it makes for a richer experience, but it is definitely not something a game designer would normally do. Perhaps someone could mod that on a private server. Like babies don't suffer from hunger

gabal · 2018-11-19 06:59:32

It makes you appreciate it when you get a competent mom who is caring for you.

I have been searching for videos of people playing for the first time and they feel genuine joy and awe when they get born to a player who knows how to play and takes good care of you.

Kitaelia · 2018-11-19 09:59:32

gabal wrote:

It makes you appreciate it when you get a competent mom who is caring for you.
I have been searching for videos of people playing for the first time and they feel genuine joy and awe when they get born to a player who knows how to play and takes good care of you.

Took the words right out of my keyboard! I remember being new and feeling frustrated over being abandoned over and over. Yes, it can be frustrating. Especially if you are playing with the mentality of "This is a game therefore I must feel complete JOY during my entire play experience."

This game is more of a society and civilization simulator and you are supposed to feel a mixture of all of the emotions while playing it. The good lives make the bad ones feel so worth it.

When I finally found my first mother who kept me, raised me, took the time to actually teach me a few things.. Oh boy was I super excited! After cycling through several moms who couldn't keep me, it felt really special to finally be kept and cared for.

So far OHOL is a pretty damn spot on society and civilization simulator when you really really think about it. Not many babies (or mothers) survived back in the caveman days and early civilization.

That's just my two potatoes.

mx_owl · 2018-11-19 18:23:42

Kitaelia wrote:

gabal wrote:
It makes you appreciate it when you get a competent mom who is caring for you.
I have been searching for videos of people playing for the first time and they feel genuine joy and awe when they get born to a player who knows how to play and takes good care of you.
Took the words right out of my keyboard! I remember being new and feeling frustrated over being abandoned over and over. Yes, it can be frustrating. Especially if you are playing with the mentality of "This is a game therefore I must feel complete JOY during my entire play experience."
This game is more of a society and civilization simulator and you are supposed to feel a mixture of all of the emotions while playing it. The good lives make the bad ones feel so worth it.
When I finally found my first mother who kept me, raised me, took the time to actually teach me a few things.. Oh boy was I super excited! After cycling through several moms who couldn't keep me, it felt really special to finally be kept and cared for.
So far OHOL is a pretty damn spot on society and civilization simulator when you really really think about it. Not many babies (or mothers) survived back in the caveman days and early civilization.
That's just my two potatoes.

As a Steam player who was initially totally overwhelmed, I'm coming along to this point of view.

It was definitely initially frustrating to be abandoned over and over, or to have to abandon babies over and over. But as I've played, I've learned why mothers abandon me, and I've done the things mentioned upthread to show that I am a competent player, which has definitely upped my chances of being picked for survival. I've done this to babies as well -- I've fed babies I was going to abandon, who follow me to food sources and make sure I can pick them up as necessary and do the other things I need from a baby. So I definitely agree that some of this can be mitigated with some experience. And even when I do starve to death, I know enough now to realize that it likely wouldn't have worked out anyway. Better to die at 0 or 1 then waste time and resources dying at 5.

And on the subject of appreciation -- oh man. Last night I got the best mother. I was the only daughter to the Queen of a dying village (http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=1750286). She showed me around, outfitted me well, involved me in family RP, and was just generally amazing. I felt genuine appreciation to this person for spending so much time making sure I was doing well, so I focused on being the best, most dutiful daughter I could. It ended up being an amazingly bittersweet playthrough and one of my favorites. I'm sure I would not have appreciated it as much if I hadn't spend so many lives clawing for survival as the youngest son of 5 or whatever.

Which is to say, this game is very odd. It is definitely more of a civilization simulator than a traditional game, so playing it with the mentality of immediate and consistent reward is a road to frustration. As I've focused more on playing out whatever situation I've been given, regardless of what that may be, I've definitely found the game more rewarding. It just takes some patience and humility, which isn't generally what one expects to bring to a computer game.

LeBrie · 2018-11-20 19:34:30

CrazyEddie wrote:

None of that has anything to do with being born and immediately abandoned, or with too many babies arriving simultaneously and thereby overwhelming the mothers. Those are the two issues I'm complaining about, and are the reason I've suggested increasing the baby cooldown period during this period of newbie influx.

This a realistic part of the game that I am really hoping to enjoy soon (installing it right now after enjoying multiple Twitch streams). This is exactly what would happen not even 50 years ago in most of US/Europe and still happens today in poorer countries. It's why twins/multiples are a curse in some regions of Africa; it's why weak babies were left to die of exposure. It's why women seek birth control/abortions IRL. Indeed, I'm wondering if there is actually birth control or fertility treatment for Eves somewhere in game (reduce or increase chance of spawning).

Building cities has always been harder for women with the burdens of uncontrollable pregnancy/child care/rearing. Bad/impatient/busy mothers almost always led to dead babies/villages/family lines in the not-so-distant past. "Hard-ears" babies and children who don't learn skills early are first ones pushed away, skilled children are golden. If anything I'm amazed there is such a dedication to realism.

gabal wrote:

It makes you appreciate it when you get a competent mom who is caring for you.
I have been searching for videos of people playing for the first time and they feel genuine joy and awe when they get born to a player who knows how to play and takes good care of you.

This is the realistic result for the "children" who survive with a good mother. How many of those good Eves abandoned babies for minutes before choosing to care/teach you? How much better is an "older" mother with a good farm/stew/etc than a "new" mother with just kindling? And how much easier is it with a "family" of "father" or "siblings" able and willing to help Eve?

EllynEve · 2018-11-21 11:25:48

Your experience as a new steam player reminds me of my own experience as a new player. This game has always been challenging. This game is tough and there's many underlying elements of drama put into it when you need to decide to abandon babies or kill yourself trying to raise everyone. That's tough cos you don't know if the baby you're saving is of particular use or not. The closest thing to trying to achieve a cool down is by playing when there are fewer players, if that's feasible for you. I play late at night pacific time. I lived in a booming village and I only had about three kids.

Last edited by EllynEve (2018-11-21 11:27:00)

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