Do jungles ruin the game?

Tarr · 2018-11-19 17:26:10

I'm not sure if anyone else is having this issue but with how overpowered jungles are compared to other biomes it absolutely ruins any sort of difficulty this game had before. You need like two or three banana trees per person and no one will need any other sort of outside food besides bananas to keep themselves from starving in the jungle.

Mosquitoes? If you get yellow fever just go stand on an item to prevent getting bit again so you can just wait out the disease timer and then return back to afking next to a banana tree. You might get hot from the fever but not once has yellow fever + jungle been enough to outright kill me from being too hot. Mosquitoes are only a threat if you run around like a chicken with its head cut off or neglect eating while in a biome full of food.

But what if you don't find a suitable jungle to live in? You suicide just like you would previous to the update if you didn't find a good mixture of biomes with the resources you needed. It ends up boiling down to whether or not you have enough farm space in the jungle (why farm you can eat bananas) or enough open tiles near the jungle that you can build what doesn't fit outside.

I was really excited for jungles until today when I started really playing in them instead of killing myself on mosquitoes. When an item (or biome) removes all sorts of difficulty why have it?

Booklat1 · 2018-11-19 18:06:58

I mean, don't we have less iron in the map now that mountain biomes are scarcer? I'm not sure jungles can support a big population for long solely on bananas.

But maybe banana trees could be made a bit rarer. This is already a biome which encourages early and late game settlements. Have you found that the trees are too common?

Tarr · 2018-11-19 18:22:59

Obviously a large jungle biome + rng but there's 28 banana trees in that picture. A few are hard to see or rather hidden but that's enough trees to nearly feed 10 people for their full lives while regrowing every thirty minutes... What do you actually need iron for with unlimited food?

Booklat1 · 2018-11-19 18:44:18

Base 7 food for a banana is too much, I think. Or maybe it is time for the invisble bonus to be lowered. Either way I agree there is little pressure on food with bananas as they're now.

MultiLife · 2018-11-19 19:31:49

Are banana trees like berry bushes but give 7 pips per banana? Haven't touched a banana yet.

Dodge · 2018-11-19 20:14:02

Ye it's basically like wild berry bushes on steroids, will probably get nerfed soon

Tarr · 2018-11-19 20:15:56

Each banana tree produces 7 bananas which give 9 pips per banana. Each one ends up being 63 food and each tree regrows its full harvest of bananas every 30 minutes. Some of the jungles end up having so many banana trees you can make banana roads to safely travel between the different patches of banana trees.

tana · 2018-11-19 20:17:36

on the other hand, al the jungle patches that I came across were absolutely swarmed with mosquitoes, making it really difficult to stay in such biome.
Like seriously, if you have a patch of badlands, you usually expect 2 or 3 wolves, but for the jungle it's nearly every three tiles had a mosquito on it.

Tarr · 2018-11-19 20:36:45

I think once people get the hang of dodging/avoiding mosquitoes it gets easier. It's just like getting used to avoiding snakes and other dangerous animals. At worst you just make little pathways out of all the spare bananas to walk through the nasty bits of the jungle.

Dodge · 2018-11-19 20:38:42

Well since wildlife are considered as objects and there cant be more than one object per tile, you can just put any object on the ground to avoid mosquitoes which is dumb imo, you can literrally avoid getting mauled by a 200 pound bear by standing on a corn kernel lol.

if there can be an infinite number of players on the same tile and players can stand on the same tile as an object, why arent wildlife in another category than objects and be able to be on the same tile as an object like players, this would increase the challenge of jungle (make it deadly but full of food) and other biomes

Floofy · 2018-11-19 20:58:58

Not saying i disagree with OP, but i wanna point out you can reach a similar effect when close to a large swamp biome. You can easily feed a big ammount of people just from eggs.

Overrall, i agree bananas probably need a nerf... i'd say maybe make the respawn time longer.

jasonrohrer · 2018-11-19 21:14:57

Also, be careful eating too many bananas. They can be binding.

The idea with this biome was to make one that was "perfect" in many ways (free food, perfect temp), but a pain in the ass because of the mosquitoes. This is actually the way the jungle is in real life, sorta.

Regarding standing on a corn kernel to ward off a bear, that is correct, and it is really dumb.

How many players can dance on the head of a pin, though?

The players are separate from the map. The animals are part of the map. That's the difference.

Server 1 has 200,000 moving animals that have been seen on its map at some point. That's a lot. But it works, because they're all just regular map objects. They go back to sleep, essentially, after someone hasn't looked in a while, and become just like a rock or a tree, until someone comes walking along again.

Now, it would be possible to store the animals on a separate layer in the map, maybe the way that floors are stored. Floors are actually kept in a separate database.

BUT... at this point, that would require a huge overhaul of a bunch of different systems on both client and server. Probably a week or so of work, and lots of new bugs would result.

And really.... are you really saying that you haven't been killed by animals ENOUGH in this game?

You want MORE maulings and poisonings? MOOOAAARRRR!

That said, yellow fever probably isn't severe enough.

You shouldn't be able to survive it without the help of someone else feeding you. It should probably be longer, and take you down to 1/3 hunger bar. And the fever should be hotter.

And maybe bananas need some nerfing.

Dodge · 2018-11-19 21:32:51

jasonrohrer wrote:

And really.... are you really saying that you haven't been killed by animals ENOUGH in this game?
You want MORE maulings and poisonings? MOOOAAARRRR!
And maybe bananas need some nerfing.

"And really.... are you really saying that you haven't been killed by animals ENOUGH in this game?"

No

"You want MORE maulings and poisonings? MOOOAAARRRR!"

Yes

I agree it's not a priority right now compared to the ammount of work it would require, but difficulty could be changed by nerfing the ammount of wildlife, adding new medicines, maybe a longer timer to get healed etc but not by standing on a random object to make you invincible

Tbh current system is fine but standing in the berry bushes to avoid getting killed by a group of hungry grizzly bears removes all the fear that this situation should bring, "Oh no a group of bears, welp time to go to the berry field and be safe eating berries the time i can calmly think about a solution".

Floofy · 2018-11-19 21:51:42

jasonrohrer wrote:

Regarding standing on a corn kernel to ward off a bear, that is correct, and it is really dumb.
How many players can dance on the head of a pin, though?

Judging from my family trees, PLENTY of people die from wild animals. I do not think its a good idea to invest time into making them deadlier. Having a skill based way to avoid them doesn't feel like an issue to me, even tho its not very realistic, i don't think this game is supposed to be a real life simulator.

Catfive · 2018-11-19 22:11:19

Yes most of us are adept at not being killed by animals but I watched 2 separate bear attacks kill 20 people in one town yesterday and omg it was hilarious!

Tarr · 2018-11-19 22:16:44

jasonrohrer wrote:

Also, be careful eating too many bananas. They can be binding.
The idea with this biome was to make one that was "perfect" in many ways (free food, perfect temp), but a pain in the ass because of the mosquitoes. This is actually the way the jungle is in real life, sorta.

I think the idea for that could be good but in practice it just ended up being perfect. Yesterday before the patch I was thinking about how much effort we would have to put in to fix a jungle into a more livable area for a town. I ran around, tested some yellow fever and decided that "hey this is pretty good." and called it a night without really playing any.

When I ended up spending the time to play today it just sort of hit me. As long as you know what you're doing there's nearly no risk for living in the jungle with all upside. The only true downside to trying to live in a jungle is sometimes you get too many of the trees you can't cut down but that's no different than spawning into a biome with the wrong mixture of resources.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Regarding standing on a corn kernel to ward off a bear, that is correct, and it is really dumb.
How many players can dance on the head of a pin, though?

The players are separate from the map. The animals are part of the map. That's the difference.
Server 1 has 200,000 moving animals that have been seen on its map at some point. That's a lot. But it works, because they're all just regular map objects. They go back to sleep, essentially, after someone hasn't looked in a while, and become just like a rock or a tree, until someone comes walking along again.

Now, it would be possible to store the animals on a separate layer in the map, maybe the way that floors are stored. Floors are actually kept in a separate database.
BUT... at this point, that would require a huge overhaul of a bunch of different systems on both client and server. Probably a week or so of work, and lots of new bugs would result.

And really.... are you really saying that you haven't been killed by animals ENOUGH in this game?
You want MORE maulings and poisonings? MOOOAAARRRR!

I think that could be a good thing later down the road when you decide to have another week suited to just bug fixing the game. Hunting animals such as bears should be about avoiding the animal in question instead of pulling a pie from your backpack and stuffing your feet into it to protect yourself.

This would also make a bear inside towns more dangerous which is a good thing. If someone told be there was a bear ripping up my house I wouldn't sit around tending to the garden, my ass would be out and gone.

jasonrohrer wrote:

That said, yellow fever probably isn't severe enough.
You shouldn't be able to survive it without the help of someone else feeding you. It should probably be longer, and take you down to 1/3 hunger bar. And the fever should be hotter.
And maybe bananas need some nerfing.

Yeah it definitely isn't severe at this point. As long as you know what you're doing you just end up walking over to an item on the ground and waiting out the fever. The heat increase isn't enough to be bothersome even in the jungle, it just ends up being close to standing naked out in the normal biomes which isn't any sort of deterrent.

Bananas really do need nerfing as they currently stand. The issue with bananas lies in the fact they spawn so commonly that you get these huge screens full of banana trees in a place that drains food usage to a crawl already. I was going around making walkways out of spare bananas so I could safely harvest more bananas which just seems silly.

Perhaps adding a despawn timer to bananas taken off the tree? Or maybe increase the amount of time it takes for a full tree to refill itself? I think the numbers on how many you get and food value is fine for these.

Last edited by Tarr (2018-11-19 22:17:15)

D3mon1cblack · 2018-11-19 23:14:22

i was thinking about this and what if you made the peels decay timer really long like in a entire lifetime
so we have to use a trash pit to get rid of them or face entire fields of banana peels?
It encourages people to go around town to clean up
And there would be a shovel usage aswell to get rid of them

pein · 2018-11-19 23:26:41

my idea:
-rubber trees give one bucket then they die out and you can cut
-more trees, it's a jungle, it should have high grass which you need to cut, to get to bananas, some other animals like monkeys, which eat the banana on the ground and overpopulate, if a player goes close when its eating, it should bite him, otherwise we could walk over them
-bananas should restore 5, and regrow one per 10 min or they could also die out after a few harvests

we made a pen and it isn't that hard to force them out of the biome if it's a standard separated biome
yeah walling off works and i can see it as an ok strategy if we can clear it out

i born to a mom who was okayish, knowing how to catch rabbits, but they didn't even made a bowl, it was so easy to survive on bananas and berries, no kiln, nothing, and it was gen 11 when i born
they were sitting 50 tiles away from signs of civilization, 100 tile away from a fully made city which was on ice cause of the map change, and had no dire need to go anywhere, no pressure to make bowls or die, the jungle fed them, and clay was like nowhere near, nor any ponds

Lily · 2018-11-20 00:31:23

I wouldn't reduce your food bar any further, but instead make it longer. If you reduce the food bar then they don't have time to return home to get help. Unlike getting mauled by a bear, which might be difficult to get home after, you shouldn't just fall over dead from yellow fever. Realistically, you should have time to get home and get help. If you keep the food where it is at and just make it last longer, then you can still get help but still will kill you if you are totally alone.

CrazyEddie · 2018-11-20 00:32:14

I think a primitive tribe living in a jungle non-nomadically is fine. Maybe boring for most people, but if that's what someone wants to do then that's kinda cool. Good for them.

I wonder if there's some way to make the jungle especially hostile for visitors but less hostile for residents? So that for "foreigners" the jungle is rewarding but treacherous, but for "natives" the jungle is a safe harbor, a home.

Booklat1 · 2018-11-20 00:34:32

Like tarr said, bananas should just decay or be rarer. They work well already but should definitely not be so exploitable.

I don't think you should make fever a mean killer disease without adding some ways to avoid mosquitoes or the disease, but it could still be a little bit meaner. Making the bar half as big is great, no need to make it a third, but the heat should be really bad and maybe the timer a few seconds longer. Maybe just enough for it to kill you unless you can get much colder or be fed.

I think it'll leave a bad taste if jungles suddenly become unviable or bad so I think nerfs should be really moderate (except for banana trees).

fatalwolf · 2018-11-20 00:37:08

I rather have more dangers in the jungle then less benefits. Jungles should have an abundance of resources which in turn leads to an abundance of dangers also. Make it so if you are lucky or smart enough to get pass all the dangers, the jungle would be like the garden of Eden. On a side note an interesting animal to add in are boa constrictors, they could require two people to take off and you move slow while it constricts you?

Floofy · 2018-11-20 03:23:51

tbh i played more jungle tonight and i now disagree with OP. Sure, jungle are amazing for foods. But newbs literally CONSTANTLY die to yellow fever. I was an eve, i managed to put like 10 bananas in our base but they all died of yellow fever. And then, after whining a bit about that, i myself died from it.

The point i'm trying to make is, jungle is nice early on because its best food source, but its by far the most risky biome. I actually think they are well designed... nice early game help but kind of risky for late game.

Auner · 2018-11-20 04:31:11

YELLOW FEVER EPIDEMIC!

Holy crap- this has to be fixed. I have played since the dawn of the game- and I got sick 7 times. And eventually died of it.

I had to leave town for a skewer- and thus my deadly adventure into the jungle. Not to mention the whole village has 2 people sick every 30 seconds because those bugs will hide behind trees easily.

Honestly there's too damn many bugs- no way to kill them. This isn't a good representation of indigenous life in the Jungle (at-least pre-2018). People don't get sick 7 times before the age of 12. It also massively limits resource gathering outside of town.

If you're set on keeping bugs- atleast give us bug-catchers and a way to make us immune to yellow fever.

Another option is to stop all the blood shed-- and make the bugs instead eat any domestic plants planted on the biome. Please nerf bananas first.

Truth · 2018-11-20 04:34:27

Bears are only killing entire towns because people are griefing. That said, looking at all my family trees, a significant amount of people die to animals how it is (largely because of erratic movement, classic animal-behind-a-tree situation, and occasional lag).

Mosquitoes are pretty deadly and can be difficult to spot - worse than many other animals, in my opinion. I'd be pretty interested in a way to inoculate yourself, though - such as each time you contract it, there's a chance you become immune in the future (assuming you don't die, of course). It'd make it realistic, but also clearly different than the other environmental dangers of the world, and thus interesting.

I don't like the idea of banana trees dying, but providing fewer pips and/or respawning a bit slower sounds fine.

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#1 2018-11-19 17:26:10

Do jungles ruin the game?

#2 2018-11-19 18:06:58

Re: Do jungles ruin the game?

#3 2018-11-19 18:22:59

Re: Do jungles ruin the game?

#4 2018-11-19 18:44:18

Re: Do jungles ruin the game?

#5 2018-11-19 19:31:49

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#6 2018-11-19 20:14:02

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#7 2018-11-19 20:15:56

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#8 2018-11-19 20:17:36

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#9 2018-11-19 20:36:45

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#10 2018-11-19 20:38:42

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#11 2018-11-19 20:58:58

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#12 2018-11-19 21:14:57

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#13 2018-11-19 21:32:51

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