Why is it so difficult for you?

lowdt · 2018-11-19 13:31:22

Guys, Girls must stop eating ingrediants and make ACTUAL FOOD!
(talking about higher tech village of course you need to survive with berrys and shit at the beginning)

NOT TO EAT: Berries
NOT TO EAT: Beans
NOT TO EAT: Corn
NOT TO EAT: Berries
NOT TO EAT: guess what
NOT TO EAT: Berries...
NOT TO EAT: Carrots!!!
NOT TO EAT: Berries!!!

if you ask yourself what should my child eat?

go back to school

greetings

DisabledBerry

arkajalka · 2018-11-19 13:58:36

Feels like we are back in the ages of the carrot god. This time with berries. Make a berry crown plez.

Aurora Aurora · 2018-11-19 14:03:03

I love your stunning illustration. Really tugs at the heartstrings.

Reiker · 2018-11-19 17:22:34

For a bit of perspective, I just started playing this game a couple days ago. The first thing I taught myself how to do was to maintain and plant gooseberry bushes, which I think is a common starting point for new players. It's the job I tend to default to when I start a new life. Last night I was born in the middle of a dying gooseberry field, so I knew what I had to do once I came of age. It was a moderately advanced society so I had to make very long treks in search of soil, but it was all that I knew.

I spent most of my life turning that gooseberry farm around, and I was successful. But then my uncle came to me just before he died to tell me that this was unsustainable and I would need carrots to start making compost.

This was completely uncharted territory for me, and I was also quickly approaching the end of my life. But I went to work, scavenging for seeds and other materials to make two little plots of carrots. I kept a close eye on my project to make sure we would have enough seeds to keep the farm going.

To my surprise and excitement, I got it everything right and I was able to grow a lamb into a sheep and produce a pile of dung. My niece was watching (she was trying to figure this out too but she was feeding them regular gooseberries) and she ran off to grab a shovel after thanking me for showing her what to do.

I then took my niece and her daughter to my carrot farm and explained the process I had just learned moments before to them - then I died.

I had a blast. It was probably my most enjoyable life yet. Before that life, I didn't really know the value of carrots besides as a food item. So I guess my point is to allow for new players to learn this stuff organically, and try not to be toxic about it. I understand how it can be frustrating.

The best way to teach new players is to be positive and make it fun. Saying "if you're a baby and you're eating gooseberries you need to go back to school" isn't either of those things. I'm also not sure what it means as I tend to eat gooseberries as a baby since stuff like pies seems really inefficient when your food bar is so small, but you never really explained that point so there's no way for me to learn anything.

Starknight_One · 2018-11-19 18:18:55

Reiker wrote:

For a bit of perspective, I just started playing this game a couple days ago. The first thing I taught myself how to do was to maintain and plant gooseberry bushes, which I think is a common starting point for new players. It's the job I tend to default to when I start a new life. Last night I was born in the middle of a dying gooseberry field, so I knew what I had to do once I came of age. It was a moderately advanced society so I had to make very long treks in search of soil, but it was all that I knew.
I spent most of my life turning that gooseberry farm around, and I was successful. But then my uncle came to me just before he died to tell me that this was unsustainable and I would need carrots to start making compost.
This was completely uncharted territory for me, and I was also quickly approaching the end of my life. But I went to work, scavenging for seeds and other materials to make two little plots of carrots. I kept a close eye on my project to make sure we would have enough seeds to keep the farm going.
To my surprise and excitement, I got it everything right and I was able to grow a lamb into a sheep and produce a pile of dung. My niece was watching (she was trying to figure this out too but she was feeding them regular gooseberries) and she ran off to grab a shovel after thanking me for showing her what to do.
I then took my niece and her daughter to my carrot farm and explained the process I had just learned moments before to them - then I died.
I had a blast. It was probably my most enjoyable life yet. Before that life, I didn't really know the value of carrots besides as a food item. So I guess my point is to allow for new players to learn this stuff organically, and try not to be toxic about it. I understand how it can be frustrating.
The best way to teach new players is to be positive and make it fun. Saying "if you're a baby and you're eating gooseberries you need to go back to school" isn't either of those things. I'm also not sure what it means as I tend to eat gooseberries as a baby since stuff like pies seems really inefficient when your food bar is so small, but you never really explained that point so there's no way for me to learn anything.

First off, welcome to OHOL and the forums! Glad to see you're enjoying yourself.

I have some learning songs (posted on Steam) linked in my signature block. I'd like to think the first two present a decent overview of the berry-farming process (although it doesn't go into why too many berry bushes are bad), the carrot and wheat farming process and making compost. The third one is basically a cautionary tale about overdoing one or two food sources (i.e., berry-gobbling adults).

Toddlers and old people should absolutely eat berries. And popcorn. But so should adults - in moderation. Yum bonus is very important in keeping food usage down, as is not overeating. If I can get my Yum up to 6x, that's anywhere from 12-132 seconds that I'm not using my visible food boxes. (Of course, if I have enough food sources to get to 6x, I'm probably not going to be at min/max temp, so it should be weighted away from the minimum.)

Absolute prohibitions are for absolute idiots. But yes, usually there's something better those berries could be used for... like making compost, or raising a sheep for mutton.

Reiker · 2018-11-19 18:32:07

I'm curious about the "too many berry bushes are bad" thing.

Like, I get it in theory. Gooseberries require resources to maintain (water + soil/compost + time) so you're losing efficiency when a bush sits around getting unused.

The problem is, in my experience, it's impossible to say something like "we need exactly 20 berry bushes, no more, no less." Settlements are in such constant flux, one moment you have a couple adults working at the forge living off pies and the gooseberry farm is going unused, and the next moment the good players are dying off, everyone starts having triplets, people need compost for milkweed or whatever and suddenly you're in the middle of a gooseberry crisis. I understand the efficiency issue but I also try to be prepared for these crisis situations.

It seems like such a micro thing when there's probably way bigger issues going on in your town than having 5 extra gooseberry bushes temporarily going to waste.

Last edited by Reiker (2018-11-19 18:37:47)

Booklat1 · 2018-11-19 18:55:18

Reiker wrote:

I'm curious about the "too many berry bushes are bad" thing.
Like, I get it in theory. Gooseberries require resources to maintain (water + soil/compost + time) so you're losing efficiency when a bush sits around getting unused.
The problem is, in my experience, it's impossible to say something like "we need exactly 20 berry bushes, no more, no less." Settlements are in such constant flux, one moment you have a couple adults working at the forge living off pies and the gooseberry farm is going unused, and the next moment the good players are dying off, everyone starts having triplets, people need compost for milkweed or whatever and suddenly you're in the middle of a gooseberry crisis. I understand the efficiency issue but I also try to be prepared for these crisis situations.
It seems like such a micro thing when there's probably way bigger issues going on in your town than having 5 extra gooseberry bushes temporarily going to waste.

It's not just that, but big bush fields often have no spaces for bowls, soil or buckets.

Also, why plant new berries when it's cheaper to reset old ones (both iron and soilwise)?

It's also a lot more labour to plant new berries than it is to reset old ones. Just picking on the last berries of bushes allows you to prepare for soiling and watering later, while if planting new ones you'd need seeds, hoe, two soil for optimal hoe usage and water. and theyll have to grow and only after that start fruiting.

Floofy · 2018-11-19 19:09:48

The main issue isn't so much that people plant and eat berries. Berries are a good food source. The issue they eat ONLY berries. Its very important to vary what you eat because the yum bonus is really worth it

Starknight_One · 2018-11-19 19:17:36

Reiker wrote:

I'm curious about the "too many berry bushes are bad" thing.
Like, I get it in theory. Gooseberries require resources to maintain (water + soil/compost + time) so you're losing efficiency when a bush sits around getting unused.
The problem is, in my experience, it's impossible to say something like "we need exactly 20 berry bushes, no more, no less." Settlements are in such constant flux, one moment you have a couple adults working at the forge living off pies and the gooseberry farm is going unused, and the next moment the good players are dying off, everyone starts having triplets, people need compost for milkweed or whatever and suddenly you're in the middle of a gooseberry crisis. I understand the efficiency issue but I also try to be prepared for these crisis situations.
It seems like such a micro thing when there's probably way bigger issues going on in your town than having 5 extra gooseberry bushes temporarily going to waste.

The main problem is, once they get the idea that they can plant more berry bushes to get infinite food, they do. And take up space, and resources, and break tools. Most times, a village can get by with a few patches of berries that are around 3x3-5x5 in size. Once you get bigger than that, it's hard to pick the berries in the middle for sheep or compost, because there's no place near to set down the bowl.

In general, it's not 'too big to keep alive', but 'too big to be efficient'. I don't have a problem seeing 64 berry bushes in a town... if it's 4 patches of 4x4, preferably spread out from each other. One should be near the sheep pen for even more efficiency. You can make your compost heaps somewhere near the center, or make a few by each farm, in order to keep them going.

One of the last few lives I had, someone planted berry bushes all the way up to and around the oven. It was easier to break the oven and move it than to kill the berry bushes, and it delayed pie production until we got the new one going. Admittedly, that was probably griefing, since other shady things were going on. (I mean, why would bowls of saltwater keep showing up when the nearest ice hole was more than 30 seconds away and not even in an ice biome? It's not like noobs were mistaking it for fresh water.)

Toddlers should farm berry bushes, focusing on keeping them alive. Use distributed small patches rather than one huge farm, and make sure to put food sources near. Kids can just eat berries, but should know the bowl trick. Adults who are starving should eat *one* berry, then a berry from a bowl... and then they can bloody well go find a pie or stew. It's not like they're starving at that point. Taking 'one for the road' is okay, too... but honestly, you should probably just take a pie with you.

mx_owl · 2018-11-19 19:25:33

Sorry if this is off-topic, but on the subject of noobs and berries, when should we take all the berries off a single bush? I believe I've heard that domestic bushes should be exhausted and one last berry kept on wild bushes to keep the timer from being reset to 30 mins, but I'm not 100% sure on that...

CrazyEddie · 2018-11-19 19:44:22

Children should eat berries because the better foods are wasted on them. Adults should eat better foods because a) they're better and b) the berries should be saved for children so that the children don't have to eat the better foods which would be wasted on them.

Children should work the berry farms because each step is straight-forward; the tasks keep them close to their food source (the berries), and the work can tolerate being frequently interrupted as the children eat.

Berry farms should be large enough to support the population of children that are anticipated to arrive in the near future. If the town is growing, the berry farm needs to grow with it. If the berry farm is large enough already, then the soil / hoe / labor is better spent elsewhere rather than planting new bushes.

Berry farms should be kept fully maintained so that they are always ready to support the children when they do arrive. Adults should make sure the children are maintaining them; then the adults should go someplace else, do something more productive, and eat better food.

AlanB · 2018-11-19 19:45:52

mx_owl wrote:

Sorry if this is off-topic, but on the subject of noobs and berries, when should we take all the berries off a single bush? I believe I've heard that domestic bushes should be exhausted and one last berry kept on wild bushes to keep the timer from being reset to 30 mins, but I'm not 100% sure on that...

Eat them all. They won't regrow like that.

Starknight_One · 2018-11-19 20:07:48

mx_owl wrote:

Sorry if this is off-topic, but on the subject of noobs and berries, when should we take all the berries off a single bush? I believe I've heard that domestic bushes should be exhausted and one last berry kept on wild bushes to keep the timer from being reset to 30 mins, but I'm not 100% sure on that...

You can safely pick all berries from both. Domestic bushes don't spring new berries unless you feed and water them, and wild bushes get a new berry 10 minutes after the last time a berry was picked from them or the last berry popped up, whichever takes longer (i.e., picking a berry or letting one grow resets the growth timer), until they are full. The main reason I try to leave berries on wild bushes is for people who are out and about, in case they wind up being a little short of food to make it back to town.

Last edited by Starknight_One (2018-11-19 20:10:10)

VioletLily · 2018-11-19 20:20:12

AlanB wrote:

mx_owl wrote:
Sorry if this is off-topic, but on the subject of noobs and berries, when should we take all the berries off a single bush? I believe I've heard that domestic bushes should be exhausted and one last berry kept on wild bushes to keep the timer from being reset to 30 mins, but I'm not 100% sure on that...
Eat them all. They won't regrow like that.

Domestic Berries should be exhausted.

Wild berries are a little different. It is common courtesy in this game to save a berry or two on wild bushes to be eaten in emergencies. If you are able to search for another bush without starving, you should do that instead of eating the last wild berry.

Wild berries will still grow more berries if there are a couple left on the bush.

Domestic Berries need to be fully picked, have soil added, and watered before they can grow more berries. It is best to fully pick a domestic bush instead of leaving many domestics with one or two berries. Leaving one or two berries on many domestics can lead to mass starvation as it is likely all those bushes will be exhausted at the same time, meaning no berries for a while.

Last edited by VioletLily (2018-11-19 20:27:06)

mx_owl · 2018-11-19 20:38:14

Blanket thanks to everyone who responded. This definitely clears up why and when to leave berries on bushes. I'd started making a point of exhausting domestic bushes with a single berry left, if there were a lot of full bushes around, but I wasn't 100% sure I was doing the right thing.

CrazyEddie · 2018-11-19 21:47:56

Not mentioned yet - in the wild, you should pick a berry from any full bushes you pass by, if you're someplace that you or someone else is likely to go past again in the near future. Since wild bushes regrow one berry every ten minutes, a full bush is effectively wasting one berry every ten minutes (because it can't grow a new one until someone picks one).

The same logic is true for any resource that regrows, like straight branches or eggs. If you don't have some other urgent matter, you should collect it as you pass by (and just leave it on the ground if you can't carry or consume it) so that when someone else passes by later there will be more for them to collect and use.

So for domestic berries, the strategy is to concentrate: pick one bush clean before you start eating from a new bush. For wild berries, the strategy is to spread out: pick from the full bushes so they'll regrow, and avoid emptying bushes so that there will be berries available for anyone who has a food emergency while in the area (and note that the life you save by doing so could be your own!).

Last edited by CrazyEddie (2018-11-19 21:49:37)

Catfive · 2018-11-19 23:37:45

Reiker wrote:

For a bit of perspective, I just started playing this game a couple days ago. The first thing I taught myself how to do was to maintain and plant gooseberry bushes, which I think is a common starting point for new players. It's the job I tend to default to when I start a new life. Last night I was born in the middle of a dying gooseberry field, so I knew what I had to do once I came of age. It was a moderately advanced society so I had to make very long treks in search of soil, but it was all that I knew.
I spent most of my life turning that gooseberry farm around, and I was successful. But then my uncle came to me just before he died to tell me that this was unsustainable and I would need carrots to start making compost.
This was completely uncharted territory for me, and I was also quickly approaching the end of my life. But I went to work, scavenging for seeds and other materials to make two little plots of carrots. I kept a close eye on my project to make sure we would have enough seeds to keep the farm going.
To my surprise and excitement, I got it everything right and I was able to grow a lamb into a sheep and produce a pile of dung. My niece was watching (she was trying to figure this out too but she was feeding them regular gooseberries) and she ran off to grab a shovel after thanking me for showing her what to do.
I then took my niece and her daughter to my carrot farm and explained the process I had just learned moments before to them - then I died.
I had a blast. It was probably my most enjoyable life yet. Before that life, I didn't really know the value of carrots besides as a food item. So I guess my point is to allow for new players to learn this stuff organically, and try not to be toxic about it. I understand how it can be frustrating.
The best way to teach new players is to be positive and make it fun. Saying "if you're a baby and you're eating gooseberries you need to go back to school" isn't either of those things. I'm also not sure what it means as I tend to eat gooseberries as a baby since stuff like pies seems really inefficient when your food bar is so small, but you never really explained that point so there's no way for me to learn anything.

Good job!
I trained two guys at the same time on compost last week and after I wandered off doing my own thing, making sure everything was running or fixing what was broken and 20 minutes later when I walk past there were 7 new compost piles fermenting! Tonight I didn't train but had people watching as I brought sheep in, grew milkweed for opes for buckets/deep wells, made both, made tools. I was a bit selfish tbh and a fellow player grabbed any kids i had as I was abandoning in order to get everything done.

Just left that little settlement and with Lilou's help the first compost was underway with all crops and tools made, sheep, wells, bakery which either I or Lilou ensured were running. Next life I'll train some again

And btw mate, nice to see someone showing initiative, I never realised how rare it was until steam

Truth · 2018-11-20 04:41:39

I've wanted to do the math, but haven't gotten around to it. I guess I'll just ask, though: is compost sustainable? Is the cost of producing compost via expending resources on berries, carrots, and wheat less than the berries, carrots, and wheat produced by said compost? Or does it eventually run out eventually somewhere along the chain, like natural water and soil?

Anshin · 2018-11-20 04:49:01

Truth wrote:

I've wanted to do the math, but haven't gotten around to it. I guess I'll just ask, though: is compost sustainable? Is the cost of producing compost via expending resources on berries, carrots, and wheat less than the berries, carrots, and wheat produced by said compost? Or does it eventually run out eventually somewhere along the chain, like natural water and soil?

Yes. Compost is very sustainable.
For any city to survive you must have a shepherd who tends the compost.

CrazyEddie · 2018-11-20 05:12:21

Compost is a net positive, with two exceptions (iron and water). One batch of compost can generate far more of the resources used in its production than are consumed in its production.

Compost consumes water but does not produce it, so water is a limiting factor, although compost consumes far less water than farming itself does. Natural water replenishes, albeit slowly.

Natural soil does not replenish, which is why you need compost (although compost would be beneficial even if soil DID replenish, because of transport distances). Compost is a complete substitute for natural soil.

Compost consumes iron. Iron does not replenish (and is scarcer now than it used to be, which is causing veterans no end of heartache). Iron is the ultimate constraint on the amount of food that can be produced by farming.

Compost also consumes wood, but wood is abundant and replenishes (and can be farmed in case nature isn't growing it fast enough for you). It also consumes straight branches, which replenish but can't be farmed. It also requires baskets to make and to use; they are not consumed, but they decay over time; they are not replenished, but can be farmed. As a constraint on farming, wood, branches, and baskets are all incidental to iron.

All resources - even the ones that don't replenish, like iron - are effectively infinite because the map is unimaginably large; if you run out, you can just go further afield in search of what you need. However, search times and transport times eventually become limiting factors.

Last edited by CrazyEddie (2018-11-20 05:31:50)

Catfive · 2018-11-20 23:43:02

One compost pile gives 5 baskets of 3 soil = 15 soil
It costs 1 wheat (2 soil)
2 carrots (2 soil)
2 bowls berries (2 soil if already planted)
= 6 soil **

Net Gain of 9 soil or +150% increase on soil invested

**Yes I'm aware it is also iron, wood, water, this is purely on the soil return.

You will not grow a settlement long without both soil and water in good supply

Last edited by Catfive (2018-11-20 23:44:30)

desertsyd · 2018-11-21 00:19:47

Catfive wrote:

One compost pile gives 5 baskets of 3 soil = 15 soil
It costs 1 wheat (2 soil)
2 carrots (2 soil)
2 bowls berries (2 soil if already planted)
= 6 soil **
Net Gain of 9 soil or +150% increase on soil invested
**Yes I'm aware it is also iron, wood, water, this is purely on the soil return.
You will not grow a settlement long without both soil and water in good supply

a deep tilled row can be made with just one soil

it just has to be tilled twice
soil->shallow tilled soil->deep tilled row

when there is plenty of iron I always go for one soil twice tilled

Starknight_One · 2018-11-21 00:47:05

Catfive wrote:

One compost pile gives 5 baskets of 3 soil = 15 soil
It costs 1 wheat (2 soil)
2 carrots (2 soil)
2 bowls berries (2 soil if already planted)
= 6 soil **
Net Gain of 9 soil or +150% increase on soil invested
**Yes I'm aware it is also iron, wood, water, this is purely on the soil return.
You will not grow a settlement long without both soil and water in good supply

One compost pile gives *7* baskets of soil. Net gain of 15 soil, +250%.

Tramax · 2018-11-21 03:41:30

desertsyd wrote:

when there is plenty of iron I always go for one soil twice tilled

I used to think like that, but the only varations the towns seem to have is high amount of iron with high amount of (ability to make) compost or low amount of iron and reasonable ability to make compost.

Ultimately, if the town's got a compost work chain going - they can have a self-sustaining population indefinitely which leads to a big pile of iron for the town - but that indefinite compost work chain should still be there so why waste the iron when it will sorely be needed for something else after you die?

Also I have to note that while you have quite a few berry gobblers buzzing about, berry bush groves seem to have grown smaller, it's fantastic as it's lead to clear evidence for new players that they don't actually need to have it be so big when the extra time not tending a massive grove gives people allows for setting up secondary, tertiary and so forth food sources which leads to the gobblers panicking only to be told to eat the other food.

Last edited by Tramax (2018-11-21 03:44:02)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-11-19 13:31:22

Why is it so difficult for you?

#2 2018-11-19 13:58:36

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#3 2018-11-19 14:03:03

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#4 2018-11-19 17:22:34

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#5 2018-11-19 18:18:55

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#6 2018-11-19 18:32:07

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#7 2018-11-19 18:55:18

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#8 2018-11-19 19:09:48

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#9 2018-11-19 19:17:36

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#10 2018-11-19 19:25:33

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#11 2018-11-19 19:44:22

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#12 2018-11-19 19:45:52

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#13 2018-11-19 20:07:48

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#14 2018-11-19 20:20:12

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#15 2018-11-19 20:38:14

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#16 2018-11-19 21:47:56

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#17 2018-11-19 23:37:45

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#18 2018-11-20 04:41:39

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#19 2018-11-20 04:49:01

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#20 2018-11-20 05:12:21

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#21 2018-11-20 23:43:02

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#22 2018-11-21 00:19:47

Re: Why is it so difficult for you?

#23 2018-11-21 00:47:05

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#24 2018-11-21 03:41:30

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