Rant

Floofy · 2018-11-27 02:55:26

So its hard to call this post anything else than a rant, since i don't see what kind of solution you guys can come up with.

I just spawned as Eve in one of my old bases. There was miles of berry farms, carrots, plenty of weed, advanced wells, as much iron as we wanted carts, tons of pies. All this to me, the lone EVE. The only catch? A part of the town is desert based (nothing extreme), and there is some mosquitoes north.

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=2035220

ALL of my babies i took great care of, and brang them to child statue... but almost all of them quickly died of STARVATION. How do you die from STARVATION when you're literally drowning in food all over the place. And i wouldn't complain if it occasionnally happened, but its like 70-80% of people doing this. I don't get it.

Last edited by Floofy (2018-11-27 02:55:46)

mikekchar · 2018-11-27 03:10:37

I think the transition from berries to other food is complicated for many people. Berries are nice for new people because there is a kind of ebb and flow to it. You eat berries. You eat the last berry. You add soil. You water. But even omlettes (which are pretty darn easy) are hard to figure out for a lot of people. When you are set up, you have a flat stone near the fire and a whole stack of plates. But you have to wait for the coals before you can cook the eggs. And afterwards you need to start the fire again and then go wandering around gathering eggs. You can be omlette boy or girl for about 2 minutes and then often you never do it again.

Other foods are even more complicated. Probably the only super easy one is popcorn. I'm surprised that more cities aren't prioritising popcorn as it's another kind of "gateway" food. It's an easy process to remember and to get into. But I think a lot of experienced players concentrate too much on optimising processes with the assumption that people are able and willing to cooperate. I think there needs to be more emphasis on the social aspect. How can I set this up so even a noob can do it? How can I get people to *want* to try something new rather than to gobble berries all day?

That's my impression, anyway.

bENdI · 2018-11-27 03:30:52

just like in reality, cooking is all about the memorization
unlike reality, cooking takes no effort

pick a squash, put on plate, chop with axe or hatchet, put in pot
pick dry beans, crush with stone, put on plate and back, put water and take out, put in pot
dry a piece of corn, put it in bowl, chop with knife or flint chip, put in pot
put water in pot, put on hot coals

get threshed wheat, put in bowl, crush with stone, put water
put dough on plates, repeat process for amount needed
put either mashed carrot, bowl of gooseberries, mutton, minced rabbit (rabbit in bowl with sharp rock), + other combos
cook in hot oven

simple

Floofy · 2018-11-27 03:46:23

mikekchar wrote:

I think the transition from berries to other food is complicated for many people. Berries are nice for new people because there is a kind of ebb and flow to it. You eat berries. You eat the last berry. You add soil. You water. But even omlettes (which are pretty darn easy) are hard to figure out for a lot of people. When you are set up, you have a flat stone near the fire and a whole stack of plates. But you have to wait for the coals before you can cook the eggs. And afterwards you need to start the fire again and then go wandering around gathering eggs. You can be omlette boy or girl for about 2 minutes and then often you never do it again.
Other foods are even more complicated. Probably the only super easy one is popcorn. I'm surprised that more cities aren't prioritising popcorn as it's another kind of "gateway" food. It's an easy process to remember and to get into. But I think a lot of experienced players concentrate too much on optimising processes with the assumption that people are able and willing to cooperate. I think there needs to be more emphasis on the social aspect. How can I set this up so even a noob can do it? How can I get people to *want* to try something new rather than to gobble berries all day?
That's my impression, anyway.

I agree with your post but you missed my point. The town i spawned into had MASS BERRIES and MASS PIES. The only thing they had to do is eat those berries. They didn't need to make any food or do anything. But most of them died...

Floofy · 2018-11-27 03:47:34

bENdI wrote:

just like in reality, cooking is all about the memorization
unlike reality, cooking takes no effort
pick a squash, put on plate, chop with axe or hatchet, put in pot
pick dry beans, crush with stone, put on plate and back, put water and take out, put in pot
dry a piece of corn, put it in bowl, chop with knife or flint chip, put in pot
put water in pot, put on hot coals
get threshed wheat, put in bowl, crush with stone, put water
put dough on plates, repeat process for amount needed
put either mashed carrot, bowl of gooseberries, mutton, minced rabbit (rabbit in bowl with sharp rock), + other combos
cook in hot oven
simple

You also missed the point (maybe my post wasn't clear???). They didn't have to cook anything. The town literally had like 10 baked pies when we spawned, and like 20+ berry bushes ready to be eaten. But they still mostly all died from starvation.
I had 12 kids. 2 of them did good, 2 of them suicided (that's fine, i do it too), but then 8 of them STARVED with literally tons of food right next to them.

Last edited by Floofy (2018-11-27 03:49:09)

CrazyEddie · 2018-11-27 03:50:35

How do you die from STARVATION when you're literally drowning in food all over the place.

I have died many times of starvation because I was out on a mission while still young and misjudged how far I could go / how much I could do before I had to return to the food and eat. This is possible no matter how much food there is in town; all the food in the world does you no good if you have three pips left in your meter and you're four pips away.

I'm much better at managing my food bar now, but it's a skill and it takes time and practice to develop that skill. Newbies die for lots of reasons, but that's certainly a big one.

Last edited by CrazyEddie (2018-11-27 03:54:50)

Floofy · 2018-11-27 04:04:41

CrazyEddie wrote:

How do you die from STARVATION when you're literally drowning in food all over the place.
I have died many times of starvation because I was out on a mission while still young and misjudged how far I could go / how much I could do before I had to return to the food and eat. This is possible no matter how much food there is in town; all the food in the world does you no good if you have three pips left in your meter and you're four pips away.
I'm much better at managing my food bar now, but it's a skill and it takes time and practice to develop that skill. Newbies die for lots of reasons, but that's certainly a big one.

Well yes, i can understand dying on a mission, especially as a new player whitout the zooming in fog. But allow me to doubt all 8 of those guys went on missions.

Btw for the record, when we spawned in this town, it had 2 issue. No baskets (they all decayed), and no weed. I had to wait for my 40 year olds to go on a mission and get those since nobody ever actually went on a mission to get it lol

lionon · 2018-11-27 06:03:02

The tutorial is very berry based, all over the tutorial there are berries to sustain from, except of one onion and a carrot when talking about food variation.

I suppose most newer player subconsciously carry this over to game play.. you life mostly from berries...

In my opinion the tutorial should include cooking at least popcorn and provide a variety of food sources on the go instead of a berry bush on every corner.

Last edited by lionon (2018-11-27 06:04:07)

Anshin · 2018-11-27 06:04:02

lionon wrote:

The tutorial is very berry based, all over the tutorial there are berries to sustain from, except of one onion and a carrot when talking about food variation.
I suppose most newer player subconsciously carry this over to game play.. you life mostly from berries...
In my opinion the tutorial should include cooking at least popcorn.

+1

Include oven making and popcorn before showing how to turn that oven into a furnace for the bonus tutorial.
Make the bonus tutorial area(s) more obvious.
Put the tutorial on the main menu.

Last edited by Anshin (2018-11-27 06:09:49)

lionon · 2018-11-27 07:36:17

I just was child to an eve... and i was the only person accomplishing anything. Everything build was made by me. I brought them bananas. Okay as a guy it's somewhat easier not having to take care of children. The top of the mountain was, I planted 3 bushes and had a forth row tilted.. went away to get more soil. When I came back they all stood there and picked the 3 bushes empty, they had not one berry spared to plant a forth bush!!

EDIT: Looking at the family tree, actually I was a generation 8, my mother must have runned off.. and lied to me when I asked her if she did.

Last edited by lionon (2018-11-27 08:44:30)

lionon · 2018-11-27 08:38:08

Suggestion to make the game a little more accessible to newcomers:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … endlyness/

Lily · 2018-11-27 10:16:35

To be fair a lot of them died from yellow fever. I suspect some of the others probably got yellow fever dropped all their items(because that is what they did) and then starved shortly after recovering. So it said starved but was really yellow fever too. In generation three 2 people died to snake, 1 yellow fever, 1 wolf, and only 1 starved.

So food wasn't really the only issue going on there.

Psykout · 2018-11-27 11:47:41

lionon wrote:

Suggestion to make the game a little more accessible to newcomers:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … endlyness/

To anyone that doesn't follow the link to reddit or prefers our nostalgic forums...

lionon wrote:

So many newer players die on starvation, because a) they misjudge their allowment b) rely to much about berries.
I propose to fixes:
a) First the tutorial should be less berry focused. In the tutorial at every corner is a berry tree to sustain you. Obviously players take that mindset over, that berries are their main source of sustainment. Simple fix, instead of placing a berry bush at every corner, alternate food sources in the tutorial. Give them a bowl of popcorn, pre-backed pie etc. as the tutorial progresses. I also suggest adding cooking to the tutorial. At least of popcorn.

b) Have a longer (but harsher) starvation phase. First to talk a little real life here as soo many games get it wrong. In reality we have a long time until we die of starvation. 3 weeks no food. Not missing a dinner and breakfast doesn't kill us.. "unreal world" is by the way IMO the best game with hunger mechanic as it gradually decreases the things you can do, over a long time (not getting water kills you fast tough). Anyway back to the topic, instead of instant death when missing the seconds running to the next bush (yes, I'm aware of previous point lol) have a longer starvation phase. However, when starving you can do nothing put pick up ready made food. No taking branches, no pulling of carts etc. Also make speech bubbles gray. But have a reasonable time to find a quick fix.

Psykout wrote:

3 seconds in game is the equivalent of 18 days. Not eating for X months until you are close to death, and then not eating for another 18 days should definitely kill you. If people are dying because of misjudging their allotment of time left, rather than changing how hunger works (Have you read anything Jason has said about the game? He has clearly stated multiple times he doesn't want to change the game to make it like other games, so referencing other games' features is odd) why not just make the alert of hunger go off sooner? Better yet, how about people start listening to the first one that goes off and take care of it. If I ever die to starvation because I am distracted or stretching it out too much, I usually ignored the very first alarm, and waited until it increased in urgency before I reacted. There is plenty of warning, including the fact your hunger bar takes up a lot of real estate of the HUD. If you lengthen this time purely to curb mismanagement, what happens when the next round of players that ask for more. Soon enough people will start asking if we can be robots so we don't have to eat!

As to having a special condition of starving, so much work for soooo little value. So if you are surrounded my meat pies, eggs, skewered rabbits and starving, you get to sit there for what 20 seconds until you die? As you suggested it has to be ready made, you can not pick those items up to cook them, so unless someone is there to feed you, you die. And it takes longer because you want that too. That sounds like ten times worse than the current iteration of hunger. Hmm how do we fix that then.... okay so now you can pick up any food item to deal with this. Well what if there is no fire, you yet again die surrounded by food because someone else has to help you. Okay so.... now you can pick up and food item and anything you need to make a fire or make a..... see where I am going with this?
Finally to top it off, if ALL of this is to help newbies, I ask you sir..... How in bloody hell is making the game more complicated under the surface helping a new player???

P.S I like Jason's game and I don't want him to have to add code to every single item to determine if it's usable while starving.

Lionon, welcome to the forums, please feel free to interact here instead of trying to move discussions to another format/website.

lionon · 2018-11-27 11:52:13

Psykout wrote:

Lionon, welcome to the forums, please feel free to interact here instead of trying to move discussions to another format/website.

Actually this is just exactly what Jason suggested for suggestions.

Psykout · 2018-11-27 12:06:03

lionon wrote:

Psykout wrote:
Lionon, welcome to the forums, please feel free to interact here instead of trying to move discussions to another format/website.
Actually this is just exactly what Jason suggested for suggestions.

True, its just awkward to be a part of this conversation, see you add on to it, but have to go to reddit to read it, and then come back here to be back in the conversation. Also if my I want my thoughts to be heard by those that were involved here, they have to go there as well. It just split it for no reason when it could be just put in both places, so I did that for you, and mentioned it would be nice to not have threads split between two websites.

lionon · 2018-11-27 12:13:26

It's a split with a good reason. Here keep ranting about noobs how stupid they are and make your hair pull out. There a suggestion to make a game more accessible that spawned of it. As I also posted a while ago, this balancing is something that often goes wrong with indy games where devs listens much on the hardcore fans... who want to keep the game somewhat challenging for themselves while the average joe and gal have no chance. For example, and this time a name it, "oxygen not included" the devs realized and it gets easier and easier with every update. Being a hugh fan of the game I often wonder, really? It's not that hard to make a sustainable colony and the challenge gets less and less. And then go to twitch and watch a few streamers how they keep f*** up...

Psykout · 2018-11-27 13:10:14

lionon wrote:

It's a split with a good reason. Here keep ranting about noobs how stupid they are and make your hair pull out. There a suggestion to make a game more accessible that spawned of it. As I also posted a while ago, this balancing is something that often goes wrong with indy games where devs listens much on the hardcore fans... who want to keep the game somewhat challenging for themselves while the average joe and gal have no chance. For example, and this time a name it, "oxygen not included" the devs realized and it gets easier and easier with every update. Being a hugh fan of the game I often wonder, really? It's not that hard to make a sustainable colony and the challenge gets less and less. And then go to twitch and watch a few streamers how they keep f*** up...

I have seen many games that also catered to snowflake mentality and accessibility more than the core of the game. The game became homogenized with other games of the genre and directly competed instead of filling the niche they started with. I would like to not have that happen to this game. Accepting the current state of the game, the intentions of the dev, and theorizing better ways to utilize the systems BEFORE asking for a ton of changes is necessary.

Adding a specific system that behaves unlike any other system in the game is not going to help accessibility, it will actually make it worse. Yellow Fever shuts down all object interaction. It is clear because there are no if's an or's. You get bit, you get sick, you can't do anything but move. You are suggesting to add Starvation that you can pick some objects up but not others, that is not immediately clear across the board. It will also be a constant thing to deal with, rather than only when being bit by a mosquito. It does not promote accessibility like you believe it does, I am sorry to bring that to light.

I can see you are really adamant, and want to be active in talking about the game, that's great. But I do not believe coming in new and asking for a bunch of changes in any single aspect of life is a good idea, just my personal opinion.

lionon · 2018-11-27 13:17:40

"bunch of changes"... Pyskout I really don't get why you are freaking out. It's your good right to not like an idea, but you're acting quite hostile IMO. Please keep a friendly attitude. Thank you. Also complaining about splitting etc. And as said, we already have the mechanic on age an ability what do and before the suggestion you would already be dead before having this additional "grace period" to find some food... Oh and you are now mixing up threads. This would have better fitted to reddit where the suggestion is to be discussed.

Floofy · 2018-11-27 14:12:34

lionon wrote:

The tutorial is very berry based, all over the tutorial there are berries to sustain from, except of one onion and a carrot when talking about food variation.
I suppose most newer player subconsciously carry this over to game play.. you life mostly from berries...
In my opinion the tutorial should include cooking at least popcorn and provide a variety of food sources on the go instead of a berry bush on every corner.

Again this is missing the point. This town had at least 20 berries. There was A LOT of berries. I even showed them the berry farm.

Floofy · 2018-11-27 14:14:32

lionon wrote:

I just was child to an eve... and i was the only person accomplishing anything. Everything build was made by me. I brought them bananas. Okay as a guy it's somewhat easier not having to take care of children. The top of the mountain was, I planted 3 bushes and had a forth row tilted.. went away to get more soil. When I came back they all stood there and picked the 3 bushes empty, they had not one berry spared to plant a forth bush!!
EDIT: Looking at the family tree, actually I was a generation 8, my mother must have runned off.. and lied to me when I asked her if she did.

This is what happens to me almost every games. I feel like maybe 10% of players have an idea of what they're doing... 20% understand how to "eat" what i produce, and 70% die from starvation even if there is food everywhere. Its almost making me hate the game.

Floofy · 2018-11-27 14:24:08

Lily wrote:

To be fair a lot of them died from yellow fever. I suspect some of the others probably got yellow fever dropped all their items(because that is what they did) and then starved shortly after recovering. So it said starved but was really yellow fever too. In generation three 2 people died to snake, 1 yellow fever, 1 wolf, and only 1 starved.
So food wasn't really the only issue going on there.

This is a very possible explanation. As i stated in the OP, there was some annoying mosquitoes north. I'd guess a good ammount of them did die to mosquitoes. Cuz i swear, i'm not exaggerating, there was food EVERYWHERE lol. Even my african girlfriend who is awfull at video games should have been able to survive there.

lionon · 2018-11-27 14:32:02

The concept to run into a cold biome with yellow fever (and next to a food source) is beyond most players. Only works when (mostly) naked tough, fully clothed it is a death sentence if you aren't fed through...

Last edited by lionon (2018-11-27 14:32:45)

Psykout · 2018-11-27 15:14:05

lionon wrote:

"bunch of changes"... Pyskout I really don't get why you are freaking out. It's your good right to not like an idea, but you're acting quite hostile IMO. Please keep a friendly attitude. Thank you. Also complaining about splitting etc. And as said, we already have the mechanic on age an ability what do and before the suggestion you would already be dead before having this additional "grace period" to find some food... Oh and you are now mixing up threads. This would have better fitted to reddit where the suggestion is to be discussed.

Adding in a system that changes the way dying to starvation is currently, and coupling it with a disabling effect is a bunch of changes. You tried to tell me to carry on and said I was whining simply because I disagree. I am not freaking out, I am typing out long thought out complete thoughts as to why I don't think your suggested changes fit with the game. I am not saying your ideas are stupid or pointless, I am not telling you to shut up or move along. I have not once been unfriendly, unless you consider someone not agreeing with you as hostile and unfriendly. I am citing examples and actually asking questions about those to see how much you have thought this through. Putting ideas on the internet and being unwilling to receive feedback and have actual back and forths about it is silly.

lionon · 2018-11-27 15:32:07

Can we please discuss this on one place only, I suggest reddit as as said, this thread is about ranting and getting it out of one systems about newbies dying next to food.

Last edited by lionon (2018-11-27 15:32:21)

Floofy · 2018-11-27 16:05:36

lionon wrote:

Can we please discuss this on one place only, I suggest reddit as as said, this thread is about ranting and getting it out of one systems about newbies dying next to food.

As a general rule, reddit suggestion is for final suggestions, and this forum is for constructing the ideas before suggesting it. Even thought you are right that this initially was just a rant with no real intention to find a solution, if people can actually figure out good solutions to my rant, i wouldn't call that off topic.

But that being said, i am not sure i am a fan of making the game a lot easier.

I think a decent solution could be to make people who are very close to starvation visible to other players (for example, if only 2 bars left), so that experienced players can save newer players if needed.

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