Suggestion: New Punishments for Greifers/troll etc.

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-20 17:50:39

So i know curse tokens are a thing but there is almost never a point in which enough people in a village are able to curse him enough to the point where could be sent to donkey town. And the only REAL punishment that ever seems to have any merit whatsoever is to KILL the person whos done you wrong. Only problem with this immediate soulution is that no matter what kind of offense it is its gonna result in death, and to be honest, death is whats needed less in the game, or atleast death thats not of old age. In one life my daughter kept stealing my pie mush bowls to make compost, i called her out several times and got zero response. On the 7th time i was seriously considering stabbing her to stop her from stealing but i didnt wanna start a chain of "oh your a murder so now im gonna kill you" with someone then shortly after saying "hey you just murdered that murderer so now your gonna die."

In my last post a greifer stabbed me, then my son stabbed him, then a greifer accomplice stabs him, then another villager stabs her, FOUR PEOPLE dying within the span of thirty seconds all because one greifer decided she hated me so much she wanted to stab me, thus causing a chain reaction, and its for that reason and so many others, that i ask Jason for a new type of punishment for less serious offenses. People getting cursed doesnt work, and stabbing people for minor reasons because talking wont work seems way to extreme for some of the minor things these people are doing. So, i have came up with a few ideas that would work best to quell these issues, they arent perfect, which is why im gonna need your guys help to figure out the chinks in them:

1. Karma Score: This is essentially a simple mechanic that acts like a moral compass, this would introduce a new option, that instead of just cursing tokens, you could have karma tokens. So if someone was really a hard worker, or good at RP, or in general was just a nice person, you could reward their efforts by saying "thank you (name here)". This would give certain incentives to players that earned enough, like for instance if your karma score was at 10, you would have a 5% increase chance for something favorable to happen when you are born, maybe even have a specific item that only players with a high enough karma score could wear. I.e horns for bad players, halos for good, alternatively one could put their cursor on the player and question which would reveal their karma score to consider whether you want to keep the bad child or not. And because anyone with such a negative karma score would almost certainly get abandoned by their mother, id also suggest a cooldown time for good AND bad karma tokens, that way someone that doesnt wanna greif can be redeemed, and people with positive karma cant go around stabbing people.

2. Safety knives: This wouldn't replace the regular knifes but would take up a few of its role. So the role of safety knives would be to do simple cutting jobs that dont require a really sharp knife. That would make it very useful for the kitchen, things like bread, turkeys, and other kitchen needs could use the safety knife that dont require that much force to cut with. HOWEVER the regular knife would still need to be used for things like skinning and killing animals since a safety knife would be too dull to work on them. This could be crafted but using a flint chip on a blank blade to get a dull blade which could be combined with a short handle to get the safety knife in question. This would cut down on the spaces where a killing knife would be suitable and thus proactively prevent greifing or accidental stabbings.

3. Cut bow: This is an option to use a flint chip on a yew bows string to make it harmless. This not only would allow the safe disarming of one of the hardest wounds to treat, but would also allow for use of the rope cut from the bow to use it for other things like making wood boxes or buckets, etc.

Would love to hear some feedback and or other ideas, thanks.

CrazyEddie · 2018-12-20 18:01:51

Reading some old posts, I get the impression that griefing used to be a lot worse than it is now. Implementing Donkey Town for cursed players apparently made a big difference.

Honestly, it barely registers for me. Now and then there's some murder, and sometimes things are annoyingly difficult because a tool has gone missing, but mostly my game experiences have been overwhelmingly positive.

I wouldn't object to doubling the curse tokens, even if it means a few additional people get cursed who don't really deserve it, even if sometimes one of them was me. I don't expect to get cursed often (I don't think I've ever had anyone curse me at all, actually) and if I got sent to Donkey Town through a misunderstanding I'd shrug my shoulders and ride it out.

I'm not sure your ideas would add much to the game.

Tarr · 2018-12-20 18:09:17

CrazyEddie wrote:

Reading some old posts, I get the impression that griefing used to be a lot worse than it is now. Implementing Donkey Town for cursed players apparently made a big difference.
Honestly, it barely registers for me. Now and then there's some murder, and sometimes things are annoyingly difficult because a tool has gone missing, but mostly my game experiences have been overwhelmingly positive.
I wouldn't object to doubling the curse tokens, even if it means a few additional people get cursed who don't really deserve it, even if sometimes one of them was me. I don't expect to get cursed often (I don't think I've ever had anyone curse me at all, actually) and if I got sent to Donkey Town through a misunderstanding I'd shrug my shoulders and ride it out.
I'm not sure your ideas would add much to the game.

Imagine playing the game and every single life you have to go around reminding people to make their babies speak. You would have to go around policing babies to check and see if any of them had a black text box then proceed to murder them (and sometimes the parents if they wouldn't let you kill their kid). People would intentionally keep cursed children because "he was a good boy! they just all cursed him!" or "I believe cursed people are good!" and you know what happened? Your family got killed because people would be apathetic towards the cursed and let them live with the town.

While sometimes something like black text leads to some cool stories (the cursed doctor example, or when the discord community were policing four cities) it was mostly just busy work for vets. You might nip one troll in the butt but now he was someone else's problem instead of getting an actual punishment. Donkey town was a great addition to the game and I'm still slightly salted that he nerfed it from extra hours per curse over 8 to what it is now.

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-20 18:18:42

CrazyEddie wrote:

Reading some old posts, I get the impression that griefing used to be a lot worse than it is now. Implementing Donkey Town for cursed players apparently made a big difference.
Honestly, it barely registers for me. Now and then there's some murder, and sometimes things are annoyingly difficult because a tool has gone missing, but mostly my game experiences have been overwhelmingly positive.
I wouldn't object to doubling the curse tokens, even if it means a few additional people get cursed who don't really deserve it, even if sometimes one of them was me. I don't expect to get cursed often (I don't think I've ever had anyone curse me at all, actually) and if I got sent to Donkey Town through a misunderstanding I'd shrug my shoulders and ride it out.
I'm not sure your ideas would add much to the game.

Well im sure with the implementation of donkey town at least some measure of antigreifing is better than none whatsoever, so that makes sense that it would have some affect. However i think its a horrible idea to get people that shouldn't be cursed to sacrifice themselves like a reverse lottery just because of a few bad apples. I think the system for punishing greifers has to be more complex then just curse tokens if we ever really wanna nip these problems in the butt.

lionon · 2018-12-20 18:24:50

This positive "karma" idea is popping up again and again, and I don't think it works out as people suggesting it think it will, because they aren't mad-minded enough to understand how it will likely be misused.

The thing is, griefers will be more focused on it to counter bad doings as normal people.

First griefer friends will always karma-cycle each other. Then they might trade things against karma. Want that backpack? Karma me first! Want to know where that key is to that house I put all towns stuff in? Everyone karma me!!! Or they might even go into blackmailing people for "good karma". etc.

About cursing... it is enough if two people curse a real griefer during it's life, the curses will build up and they will end up in donkey town. IMO from what I understand the redemption is a bit too fast/forgiving. Thats the only thing I'd suggest a change.

Regarding safety knifes / cut bows. No this would exactly make things worse. There are many ways ill-minded people can harm a town and a way getting rid of them is important.

The main issue is people have to meta learn in the game, whenever they see a murder to gather more info what happened instead of noob-assuming the killer must be griefer and needs to be killed... Then they are puzzled why someone kills them for being a killer etc.

CrazyEddie · 2018-12-20 18:35:28

Crumpaloo wrote:

However i think its a horrible idea to get people that shouldn't be cursed to sacrifice themselves like a reverse lottery just because of a few bad apples.

Any system will have both false positives and false negatives, i.e. some people who get cursed but shouldn't have been, and some people who should get cursed but don't. And while you can make adjustments, anything that reduces false positives will increase false negatives and vice versa.

What I'm saying is that I'd be okay with making cursing a little easier and a little more common. Not much, but some. That will reduce false negatives (so fewer people who deserve curses will escape being cursed) but therefore it will also necessarily increase false positives (so a few more people will get cursed that didn't deserve it).

Uncle Tensticks · 2018-12-20 18:37:31

Crumpaloo, i like where your head's at!

Sylverone · 2018-12-20 19:12:26

Crumpaloo wrote:

Well im sure with the implementation of donkey town at least some measure of antigreifing is better than none whatsoever, so that makes sense that it would have some affect. However i think its a horrible idea to get people that shouldn't be cursed to sacrifice themselves like a reverse lottery just because of a few bad apples. I think the system for punishing greifers has to be more complex then just curse tokens if we ever really wanna nip these problems in the butt.

I'll echo what CrazyEddie said about false positives/negatives, plus mention that crime remains a problem in real life because it's not an easy problem to solve. A lot of the problem is that criminals operate precisely by camouflaging themselves as ordinary people with reasonable excuses. They have to. Of course that takes work and some of them are lazy, and they relish the chance to shake off the act that they resent having to keep up to maintain their freedom. But, in the end they are life-long specialists in deceit. Some or even many trolls are no doubt of this type.

One interesting thing might be for people to provide examples of games or systems that have been effective at reducing or eliminating griefing or trolling.

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-20 21:26:56

CrazyEddie wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
However i think its a horrible idea to get people that shouldn't be cursed to sacrifice themselves like a reverse lottery just because of a few bad apples.
Any system will have both false positives and false negatives, i.e. some people who get cursed but shouldn't have been, and some people who should get cursed but don't. And while you can make adjustments, anything that reduces false positives will increase false negatives and vice versa.
What I'm saying is that I'd be okay with making cursing a little easier and a little more common. Not much, but some. That will reduce false negatives (so fewer people who deserve curses will escape being cursed) but therefore it will also necessarily increase false positives (so a few more people will get cursed that didn't deserve it).

The curse system is all about checks and no balance, if you make the checks of cursing someone easier, that makes it for EVERYONE to get to donkey town easier, not JUST greifers like you said, so in that sense nothing really changes, the same people that grief on a daily bases will still get cursed, sure there will be less false negatives but like you said all systems will have them. The only thing that would be noticeable is the increase instances of innocent people getting cursed easier and longer, and being there no balance as to who can curse who, and the only acceptation of a two hour waiting blip, slews of trolls can systematically instant curse anyone thats smart enough to stop what they were doing, leaving only new people that dont know how to defend themselves. They can even use new comers that arent use to the game as a tool for cursing people themselves, they could just as easily make up a story about being killed, then teach the new player how to curse that person, and if cursing were easier, that would require less newbies to convince to type a short message with your name on it.

Things like safety knives and cutting the string off of bows are passive efforts that dont knowingly sacrifice the freedoms and enjoyment of other players and are meant purely as a effort of coming up with safe ideas that limit senarios that people can get a knife in. Now will people still try to grief anyways? Of course, and no amount of micro fixes could ever 100% stop it, but trying to adjust a system whos sole mechanic relies on the good nature of everyone, including the trolls, isn't realistic or logical.

Last edited by Crumpaloo (2018-12-20 21:29:40)

Greep · 2018-12-20 21:32:42

A big issue with towns is having only one knife. What happens if that person starts a killing spree next to a smithery? If they can kill anyone who tries to make another knife that entire town is nuked: making an arrow takes a few minutes unless the nearby areas aren't fully scavenged and they usually are.

If this is the route that some people want, there would need to be harsher penalties for killing instead. Considering Jason is so far of the other opinion that he made the apocalypse a while back allowing for griefers for a while to destroy the entire world, I'd say this is never ever happening.

I can definitely agree with anything that makes bow wounds easier to heal. They practically speaking can't be healed as is.

Last edited by Greep (2018-12-20 21:37:32)

Azrael · 2018-12-20 21:35:55

This won't work, simply put, Jason won't implement a karma system.

People have tried, MANY before you, he's not doing it.

He doesn't like the idea and if he doesn't wanna put it then it won't happen.

I like the making of safety weapons and disassembling them but... in the long term? It won't matter, very soon I'm talking VERY soon, more weapons will be added to the game, at an alarming rate things will speed up and knives and bows will not matter, also, having those abilities to ruin weapons can be beneficial to players who wanna grief, or roleplay extremely, or be righteous in all the wrong ways.

Overall, the curse system DOES suck, but this is not a solution.

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-20 22:00:35

Azrael wrote:

This won't work, simply put, Jason won't implement a karma system.
People have tried, MANY before you, he's not doing it.
He doesn't like the idea and if he doesn't wanna put it then it won't happen.
I like the making of safety weapons and disassembling them but... in the long term? It won't matter, very soon I'm talking VERY soon, more weapons will be added to the game, at an alarming rate things will speed up and knives and bows will not matter, also, having those abilities to ruin weapons can be beneficial to players who wanna grief, or roleplay extremely, or be righteous in all the wrong ways.
Overall, the curse system DOES suck, but this is not a solution.

Never claimed to have a fix all, just wanted feed back and other ideas, and while criticism is helpful, id prefer some ideas on how to improve on them or even new ideas in general. Like for example, you could do xyz to improve on the idea of saftey items so they are harder to be used as a greifing tool. As for the Karma score, if Jason isnt for it then he needs to be coming up with other soulutions, like you said the cursed system sucks so its no wonder other people and me are trying to come up with better soulutions to the problem. Its not enough to just dismiss any ideas on the table, you gotta be actively trying to foster them so that eventually we can figure out the best option.

Azrael · 2018-12-20 22:27:10

I see, well I've seen many ideas flourish and many explode.

The game has its phases were Jason will take input for critical issues and fix them. The community dies down and everything is good for a bit, then things rile up, Jason reads comments, and so on.

Basically, I know you didn't know about the karma system thing with jason, but if we are gonna rile up this community we are gonna need some constructive ideas.

You asked for my input, and I'm thinking that we start small, the problem with so many posts like yours is it's very very specific, and people such as myself, will find flaws in it rather than solutions because it's so geared to a perfect scenario or it's not realistic. Basically, we need general ideas for this, and I think I might have one.

I don't have a perfect godly plan that will "abominate" the curse system, but I do have a basic concept.

Instead of cursing people, and sending them to donkey town to rot and basically not learn anything but wanna quit. I suggest a more motivational idea, kinda like the curse system but life-based. So basically people can "curse" a person in that life they live in and only in that life, so basically, in the next life the "curses" won't carry over. But to get "cursed" you would need fewer points since it's per life.

So what happens when you get "cursed"? Well, I'm thinking that when you die, your next life you are an eve, but not in donkey town, a normal eve. In this eve life you live you basically have a smaller threshold for "curses" so if it was 4 per life normally, it's now 2 per life. Your goal is to die close to 60, not exactly, but close to it, without getting "cursed" more than once. This is a system that not only teaches you how to play but rewards your progressive life with being reintroduced into society without any issues.

Now the specifics are vague, but overall, I think it's way better than sending people to donkey town so they rot and learn nothing. Have them still with everyone else in same servers, but make them live a cautious and invigorating life where they learn and grow to be a better player.

Overall, the details are wack but the concept is general.

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-21 01:29:41

Azrael wrote:

I see, well I've seen many ideas flourish and many explode.
The game has its phases were Jason will take input for critical issues and fix them. The community dies down and everything is good for a bit, then things rile up, Jason reads comments, and so on.
Basically, I know you didn't know about the karma system thing with jason, but if we are gonna rile up this community we are gonna need some constructive ideas.
You asked for my input, and I'm thinking that we start small, the problem with so many posts like yours is it's very very specific, and people such as myself, will find flaws in it rather than solutions because it's so geared to a perfect scenario or it's not realistic. Basically, we need general ideas for this, and I think I might have one.
I don't have a perfect godly plan that will "abominate" the curse system, but I do have a basic concept.
Instead of cursing people, and sending them to donkey town to rot and basically not learn anything but wanna quit. I suggest a more motivational idea, kinda like the curse system but life-based. So basically people can "curse" a person in that life they live in and only in that life, so basically, in the next life the "curses" won't carry over. But to get "cursed" you would need fewer points since it's per life.
So what happens when you get "cursed"? Well, I'm thinking that when you die, your next life you are an eve, but not in donkey town, a normal eve. In this eve life you live you basically have a smaller threshold for "curses" so if it was 4 per life normally, it's now 2 per life. Your goal is to die close to 60, not exactly, but close to it, without getting "cursed" more than once. This is a system that not only teaches you how to play but rewards your progressive life with being reintroduced into society without any issues.
Now the specifics are vague, but overall, I think it's way better than sending people to donkey town so they rot and learn nothing. Have them still with everyone else in same servers, but make them live a cautious and invigorating life where they learn and grow to be a better player.
Overall, the details are wack but the concept is general.

I think its just more to that fact that if someone wants to be critical, its not that hard to find a fault, specific or vague no offense. For example, there is a chance that normal eves can spawn next to a town, so even if you got the whole village to curse him, he could spawn as eve right outside a village and start killing people again because donkey town wouldn't be a thing. If eve that greifed in a past life has a one curse limit she cant go over, she could raise 2 kids, kill one at any age, and then kill the last one at the end of her life, sure the first guy might of cursed her, but if she kills another kid when she is close to death she can spawn back in a village and have her curse limit reset, negating any more curses that the kid may do after he is old enough in another life. Keep repeating the cycle of, greifing a village, die, may spawn nearby another village as a eve, if not raise kids, kill kids when they get older to make the troll more satisfying, die before your second child can curse you, spawn in another village, repeat.

But while i did poke a bunch of holes in the idea, that DOES NOT mean that it cant be fixed, like for instance, dont put greifing eves in donkey town but DO make it in the coding to not spawn right next to a village. As for the whole cant curse until you can type it thing, just allow to click on the persons avatar you wanna curse and then click the curse symbol in the bottom right of the screen. See i dont think any idea is optimal out of the gate, which is why i was asking for feed back on the post, i get im not the first person to make the karma suggestion, but i was asking for feed back not immediate dismissal of the ideas as a whole, im open to changing somethings about them to make it a better idea but i dont like scrapping it all together as that seems pointless and backwards.

BladeWoods · 2018-12-21 02:09:13

In my experience, griefers exist but are limited right now and futher punishment isn't necessary. Things are in a good state, at least for now.

The people in one village cursing a griefer might not be enough to send him to donkey town, but if he goes and griefs in his next life then he'll get there.

Jadelink · 2018-12-21 16:12:22

One village full of curses is enough to do it for sure, according to reddit reports.

Sylverone · 2018-12-21 17:51:12

I haven't seen things to be too bad myself. Almost about every society I spawn into is growing, not declining.

I don't think having one curse per life is a good idea. People being able to curse you in their next life is important. It puts less pressure on a person to curse if they feel their life is in danger. If people have to curse before they die, they might get curse-happy when they perceive any threat. Combine that with group mentality and I think undeserved cursings will go up.

Last edited by Sylverone (2018-12-21 17:56:01)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-12-20 17:50:39

Suggestion: New Punishments for Greifers/troll etc.

#2 2018-12-20 18:01:51

Re: Suggestion: New Punishments for Greifers/troll etc.

#3 2018-12-20 18:09:17

Re: Suggestion: New Punishments for Greifers/troll etc.

#4 2018-12-20 18:18:42

Re: Suggestion: New Punishments for Greifers/troll etc.

#5 2018-12-20 18:24:50

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#6 2018-12-20 18:35:28

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#7 2018-12-20 18:37:31

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#8 2018-12-20 19:12:26

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#9 2018-12-20 21:26:56

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#10 2018-12-20 21:32:42

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#11 2018-12-20 21:35:55

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#12 2018-12-20 22:00:35

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#13 2018-12-20 22:27:10

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#14 2018-12-21 01:29:41

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#15 2018-12-21 02:09:13

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#16 2018-12-21 16:12:22

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