Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

GreatShawn · 2018-12-22 23:54:04

SO I was playing OHOL in my friend's house since I brought my laptop to his house when I visited, and my friend came over to watch me play.

While I was playing, he seems really interested with the game, and asked me a bunch of questions.

So I asked him: "what are you going to do if you got the game?"

And he responded:

"I will go around and killing people."

AND I WAS IMMEDIATELY TERRIFIED.

I said to him: "If you go around and kill people in this game, people will call you a griefer." and "People, including myself, hate killers and griefers"

he first looks like he doesn't care, but after further explanation, he looks like he knows the consequences.

Now my friend is a really nice guy in the real world, but he can be a different person in a game. If he ever got this game and played it the way he wanted to, it would be a disaster. What I am to trying to convey here is that people might a different personnality inside a game, so maybe you are still mad at griefers, but if one of them is your friend, then you might feel differently. This is NOT that I'm showing pity to griefers, but rather an interesting find that you might consider to think of when you are thinking about griefers.

Also, he plays Phantom Forces, so maybe that's why he want to kill people in OHOL.

MultiLife · 2018-12-23 01:34:31

I'd be dissapointed. I'd be expecting my friend to understand that this game is not about pvp and killing like most mainstream games are. I'd be disappointed how my friend would fall into the stereotypical "kill, win, kill" mindset of the gamers. I'd say to them, "killing in this game is about clicking a tile. That's what you seriously want to do? That'd make you feel skillful and good? Really?"
In Party Hard it's all about killing and doing it well, with lots of challenges and ways to proceed - now that's a game where killing is a real skill and a challenge. That's where you go to kill and kill good.

There were two boys playing OHOL with a cam on in a video I stumbled upon. They both decided they'll kill people (how original). But at some point, the other actually started showing genuine interest over the whole parenting thing while the other kept the whole "let's just kill people" attitude. It was kinda sad. This game has so much to offer but people resort to this default of "multiplayer game=kill others" view...

Last edited by MultiLife (2018-12-23 01:41:45)

mikekchar · 2018-12-23 07:09:19

Great Shawn, i don't know anything about your friend, obviously, but I've "been around the block" a time or two in real life. Not everybody is wired up the same way. Sometimes its because of their personal life experience, and sometimes it seems to simply be just how a person is. However, there are quite a number of people who have difficulty having empathy with other people. Sometimes they don't seem to realise (or perhaps care) that another person has the same kinds of feelings that they do. I've heard it described as if you are watching characters in a TV program. The characters are obviously people, but they aren't *real* people. They have feelings in the show, but the feelings aren't *real* feelings. People can look at the world in the same way -- other people are people, but they aren't like *me*. They have feelings, but they aren't feelings like *my feelings*. They don't matter in the same way that I matter.

Like I said, people are different and this isn't a binary on or off thing. You have people who are super empathetic and fall down in a blob of quivering jelly whenever they hear anything bad about other people. On the other extreme you have people who will punch you in the face because they think the reaction on your face will be funny. Most people who function well in society are somewhere in the middle and it's a good thing. Either extreme is a kind of handicap and it's hard to be successful in your life if you are like that.

However, some very intelligent people who have difficulty with empathy have discovered that their lack of empathy makes it easy to manipulate others. Usually these people are very charming, fun, engaging and all around "great" people. Because they are often very intelligent, they can use their skills to also be very charismatic and they tend to be leaders. When it comes to personal relationships, though, they often view it like an equation -- there is a winner and there is a loser. It makes no sense to be the loser in the equation, so you should just take what you can.

There are lots of ways to rationalise the situation, but what it tends to come down to is, "I want X. I don't see why someone else should get what they want and I shouldn't get what I want. I'm going to take X." Arguments involving empathy tend not to be very effective because the other person is handicapped on that front. It's like saying, "You shouldn't do X, because it will hurt Homer Simpson's feelings". It just doesn't register as a sensible argument.

Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do to change this situation. It is especially unfortunate because a lack of empathy coupled with an intelligent mind and charisma is usually a *very* successful combination in our societies (umm... just look at our industrial and political leaders). You will find (*especially* on this board) a contingent that will argue very convincingly that this is the *right* way to be. However, if you are one of the empathetic and you buy into this argument, then *you* will be the one with the handicap. There will be a winner and there will be a loser, and I'm afraid that *your* lot is the one of the loser.

The only winning move is not to play. Like I said, I don't know anything about your friend, but just be careful. You may find that your definition of friendship and their definition of friendship is not quite as compatible as you might have imagined.

Lily · 2018-12-23 07:43:25

It isn't something to get upset in real life over. The ability to kill people was put into the game and is a legitimate way to play. Yeah it kind of makes you a douchebag if you randomly kill people but I view murderers as random bears and snakes, just something annoying that happens from time to time.

I would tell him about the curse thing and suggest that he moderates his killing if he gets the game. If you can get him to curb the need to randomly kill people for no reason, then he will be less disruptive, hopefully. Even if he kills people, maybe he will be more selective and not try to wipe out entire towns.

Really I don't like murdering people at all, and the core game is really about cooperation. It isn't something to get really upset over out side of the game however.

Azrael · 2018-12-23 08:35:07

mikekchar wrote:

Great Shawn, i don't know anything about your friend, obviously, but I've "been around the block" a time or two in real life. Not everybody is wired up the same way. Sometimes its because of their personal life experience, and sometimes it seems to simply be just how a person is. However, there are quite a number of people who have difficulty having empathy with other people. Sometimes they don't seem to realise (or perhaps care) that another person has the same kinds of feelings that they do. I've heard it described as if you are watching characters in a TV program. The characters are obviously people, but they aren't *real* people. They have feelings in the show, but the feelings aren't *real* feelings. People can look at the world in the same way -- other people are people, but they aren't like *me*. They have feelings, but they aren't feelings like *my feelings*. They don't matter in the same way that I matter.
Like I said, people are different and this isn't a binary on or off thing. You have people who are super empathetic and fall down in a blob of quivering jelly whenever they hear anything bad about other people. On the other extreme you have people who will punch you in the face because they think the reaction on your face will be funny. Most people who function well in society are somewhere in the middle and it's a good thing. Either extreme is a kind of handicap and it's hard to be successful in your life if you are like that.
However, some very intelligent people who have difficulty with empathy have discovered that their lack of empathy makes it easy to manipulate others. Usually these people are very charming, fun, engaging and all around "great" people. Because they are often very intelligent, they can use their skills to also be very charismatic and they tend to be leaders. When it comes to personal relationships, though, they often view it like an equation -- there is a winner and there is a loser. It makes no sense to be the loser in the equation, so you should just take what you can.
There are lots of ways to rationalise the situation, but what it tends to come down to is, "I want X. I don't see why someone else should get what they want and I shouldn't get what I want. I'm going to take X." Arguments involving empathy tend not to be very effective because the other person is handicapped on that front. It's like saying, "You shouldn't do X, because it will hurt Homer Simpson's feelings". It just doesn't register as a sensible argument.
Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do to change this situation. It is especially unfortunate because a lack of empathy coupled with an intelligent mind and charisma is usually a *very* successful combination in our societies (umm... just look at our industrial and political leaders). You will find (*especially* on this board) a contingent that will argue very convincingly that this is the *right* way to be. However, if you are one of the empathetic and you buy into this argument, then *you* will be the one with the handicap. There will be a winner and there will be a loser, and I'm afraid that *your* lot is the one of the loser.
The only winning move is not to play. Like I said, I don't know anything about your friend, but just be careful. You may find that your definition of friendship and their definition of friendship is not quite as compatible as you might have imagined.

Can you seriously screw off?

This whole story from him saying that his friend would kill people in a virtual game? This doesnt determine shit. If you're seriously trying to convince him their friendship wont work because of this game then you have way bigger problems than him or any griefer.

Let the man have fun, empathy doesnt really play a part in a video game with cartoon sprites. I honestly hate people like you who take this video game to a whole new level, as if this determines anything. I grief, what am i now an unempathetic sociopath?

Your reasoning based on this VIDEO GAME is absurd and if youre telling people to end friendships than im more scared of you than this man who said he'd kill in the game.

Get a life stop taking this so seriously.

Gabby · 2018-12-23 11:12:44

I had a friend like that in the past. But with a twist, I suppose: The guy was really nice in real life, but as strange as it sounds, he had a hard time seeing "internet people" as people. Like, he knew they were people, but he didn't feel they were people, he had no empathy for them. It was like that even when he would talk to/play with people he knew in real life. He would tell me, when I asked, that he looked at them on his screen and it was "just a screen". He was aware that this was weird. But voice chat made things more "real" to him, he was nicer to us if we were in voice chat.

Last edited by Gabby (2018-12-23 11:13:08)

Booklat1 · 2018-12-23 12:36:31

Azrael wrote:

mikekchar wrote:
Great Shawn, i don't know anything about your friend, obviously, but I've "been around the block" a time or two in real life. Not everybody is wired up the same way. Sometimes its because of their personal life experience, and sometimes it seems to simply be just how a person is. However, there are quite a number of people who have difficulty having empathy with other people. Sometimes they don't seem to realise (or perhaps care) that another person has the same kinds of feelings that they do. I've heard it described as if you are watching characters in a TV program. The characters are obviously people, but they aren't *real* people. They have feelings in the show, but the feelings aren't *real* feelings. People can look at the world in the same way -- other people are people, but they aren't like *me*. They have feelings, but they aren't feelings like *my feelings*. They don't matter in the same way that I matter.
Like I said, people are different and this isn't a binary on or off thing. You have people who are super empathetic and fall down in a blob of quivering jelly whenever they hear anything bad about other people. On the other extreme you have people who will punch you in the face because they think the reaction on your face will be funny. Most people who function well in society are somewhere in the middle and it's a good thing. Either extreme is a kind of handicap and it's hard to be successful in your life if you are like that.
However, some very intelligent people who have difficulty with empathy have discovered that their lack of empathy makes it easy to manipulate others. Usually these people are very charming, fun, engaging and all around "great" people. Because they are often very intelligent, they can use their skills to also be very charismatic and they tend to be leaders. When it comes to personal relationships, though, they often view it like an equation -- there is a winner and there is a loser. It makes no sense to be the loser in the equation, so you should just take what you can.
There are lots of ways to rationalise the situation, but what it tends to come down to is, "I want X. I don't see why someone else should get what they want and I shouldn't get what I want. I'm going to take X." Arguments involving empathy tend not to be very effective because the other person is handicapped on that front. It's like saying, "You shouldn't do X, because it will hurt Homer Simpson's feelings". It just doesn't register as a sensible argument.
Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do to change this situation. It is especially unfortunate because a lack of empathy coupled with an intelligent mind and charisma is usually a *very* successful combination in our societies (umm... just look at our industrial and political leaders). You will find (*especially* on this board) a contingent that will argue very convincingly that this is the *right* way to be. However, if you are one of the empathetic and you buy into this argument, then *you* will be the one with the handicap. There will be a winner and there will be a loser, and I'm afraid that *your* lot is the one of the loser.
The only winning move is not to play. Like I said, I don't know anything about your friend, but just be careful. You may find that your definition of friendship and their definition of friendship is not quite as compatible as you might have imagined.
Can you seriously screw off?
This whole story from him saying that his friend would kill people in a virtual game? This doesnt determine shit. If you're seriously trying to convince him their friendship wont work because of this game then you have way bigger problems than him or any griefer.
Let the man have fun, empathy doesnt really play a part in a video game with cartoon sprites. I honestly hate people like you who take this video game to a whole new level, as if this determines anything. I grief, what am i now an unempathetic sociopath?
Your reasoning based on this VIDEO GAME is absurd and if youre telling people to end friendships than im more scared of you than this man who said he'd kill in the game.
Get a life stop taking this so seriously.

oh wow, and you took this from a guy teling a kid to be careful?

pein · 2018-12-23 17:58:11

oh wait, you seriously say that people who kill others, arent psychopaths in real life?
just joking
all should know that, you can play games differently
you need the skills to survive but then many people just become too cocky and leaches cause ''nobody working why should i''
and then they search for big cities where they can leach on others
once you play as eve and try to be successful, realize how hard this game is

Lily · 2018-12-23 20:55:47

Gabby wrote:

I had a friend like that in the past. But with a twist, I suppose: The guy was really nice in real life, but as strange as it sounds, he had a hard time seeing "internet people" as people. Like, he knew they were people, but he didn't feel they were people, he had no empathy for them. It was like that even when he would talk to/play with people he knew in real life. He would tell me, when I asked, that he looked at them on his screen and it was "just a screen". He was aware that this was weird. But voice chat made things more "real" to him, he was nicer to us if we were in voice chat.

I wonder if that is like some kind of actual mental issue. There are strange ones, like people who can't recognize faces, or people who can see their family member and think they are someone else. In this case, if it is on the internet they don't seem like a real person.

pein · 2018-12-23 21:50:55

i met some weird ones and had some weird phases

the higher right side brain activity made me not to recognize people, like mistake some with others
this is kind of annoying for me, as uniqueness is important to me so every time people go like "you look like someone" i already hate the conversation, but the more style you got the more people try to categorize you
kinda made me accept it, even if i don't like that thing but i understand

in online sphere, anonymity makes people jerks, so you cant threat every 13 year old with respect and understanding, they are trolls, you either ignore them or troll them back, some trolls are quite intelligent and respect you for standing up for yourself, some are just noobs, who fall apart after their lose position and its quite funny

in a mobile game i met this narcisistic guy who was autisctic but acted out of his mind over internet, like talking about drugs and gbl and he was a complete jerk if you questioned him, also the other guy thought she is a girl after losing his sister, so associated himself as a girl, and was the mix between a very honest person and a burst of envy and hysteria runs, i tend to set them off and make them crazy just by not letting manipulate myself but whatever

Sylverone · 2018-12-24 11:29:12

Booklat1 wrote:

Azrael wrote:
Booklat1 wrote:
[snip for brevity]

Can you seriously screw off?
This whole story from him saying that his friend would kill people in a virtual game? This doesnt determine shit. If you're seriously trying to convince him their friendship wont work because of this game then you have way bigger problems than him or any griefer.
Let the man have fun, empathy doesnt really play a part in a video game with cartoon sprites. I honestly hate people like you who take this video game to a whole new level, as if this determines anything. I grief, what am i now an unempathetic sociopath?
Your reasoning based on this VIDEO GAME is absurd and if youre telling people to end friendships than im more scared of you than this man who said he'd kill in the game.
Get a life stop taking this so seriously.
oh wow, and you took this from a guy teling a kid to be careful?

I think booklat1 was sort of heavy-handed and it did come off a bit too much like an effort to persuade rather than inform, but that's a mistake I tend to make as well, so I kind of understand where they are coming from. I can also understand if GreatShawn is scared off from this thread.

Empathy does play a role, it's part of what motivates cooperation and trust in anything, even when using cartoon sprites. Like pein mentioned, the anonymity and symbolism just makes it easier to stay disconnected and not think about the other person. And it On the other hand it's not constructive to treat everyone like helpless victims.

And what people do does say something about them, after all people usually do what they enjoy in some sense, and this will be reflected in their life somehow. But it's good not to jump to conclusions, because people and situations aren't simple. For instance, I don't know what you call griefing or how often you do it, so I try not to let myself draw much in the line of conclusions from what you said. I do think you're overreacting though, given that booklat1 said more than once in their post that you can't just jump to conclusions: "i don't know anything about your friend, obviously"; "Like I said, people are different and this isn't a binary on or off thing."; "Like I said, I don't know anything about your friend"

To anyone who wants to understand the thinking of people who habitually break rules and harm others, I suggest you read "Inside the Criminal Mind" by Stanton Samenow. I'm NOT saying griefers are all criminals by any means, but criminal types who play games are certain to be attracted to the roles of troll and griefer.

Azrael · 2018-12-24 18:36:24

I find more people like pein call people useless and noobs and worthless and stab more peoppe than I do in a regular life. If i believed any of this I would say he has no empathy compared to me or this guys friend. You dont need a label like "griefer", to show these traits. People can not be labeled griefer and still think internet people arent real and treat them like shit.

The point is, a griefer is not a collective term where everyone with issues becomes. Ive seen many people that exhibit the behaviour discussed here and not be griefers at all.

I dont think this term has any correlation to lack of empathy as so many others show it whilst being productive or "antigriefers"

WalrusesConquer · 2018-12-24 22:05:23

I mean my brother is also a nice person, but all talks about is how guns should be added and how he would kill everyone... Seems we are dealing with a different breed of people.

Sylverone · 2018-12-25 11:09:13

I don't argue that everyone who has ever griefed is a predatory person. But at the very least they are playing out the pretend role of predator when others have not agreed to be prey. They are at least temporarily acting "as if" they lacked empathy. To do that without it being painful, by definition one can't be empathizing with the other person, which means either one generally lacks empathy, is are deliberately "turning it off", or is blocked off from feeling it in the moment somehow.

Is hurting people's feelings always bad? Definitely not. Is upsetting people for fun always bad? Maybe not, I can imagine scenarios in which it's not, maybe. But if you want people to be very tolerant of it, that's just silly. Part of the point of griefing is to do things that other people wouldn't tolerate if they realized you were doing them, right? See what you can get away with? Waste someone's time a little or a lot? Outsmart someone? Overpower someone? Make them dance to the rhythm of your pranks? What makes it fun?

How about this: What would you estimate is the correlation between griefing and trolling? Are they a similar kind of activity? Is it likely that people who enjoy them share some similarities in personality?

I think there's a big difference between someone who griefs very rarely on a lark, and someone who spends a lot of time planning their predations with no heed for how miserable or annoyed it would make other players. There are people who pretty much ONLY grief. It is their preferred way of enjoying a game. There's definitely an empathy correlation there, no doubts. And to be clear, when I say empathy, I'm talking emotional empathy, the tendency to feel inwardly what other people may be feeling, not cognitive empathy, the ability to recognize what other people are feeling without feeling it.

Fae · 2018-12-25 19:11:31

...what in the world is happening in this thread? Oh my goodness! A person is not a sociopath for wanting to kill another player in a game. People need to stop acting as if violence in video games automatically makes somebody a monster. I grew up playing horror games (and fighting games) along with watching slasher flicks on a regular basis, and never once have I had the desire to hurt somebody.

Hell, I haven't tried to kill somebody on this game either. The guy mentioned in the first post probably mostly plays fighting games to begin with. Maybe he assumed it was competitive? The truth of the matter is that even if you don't LIKE the idea, Jason allowed it so we CAN kill other players. He doesn't want life in the game to be all sunshine and rainbows. Hell, there is a chance he will even add things like firearms too. Though it isn't my cup of tea to kill in these games, some people are going to want to stir the pot.

People need to cool off with playing 'psychologist' with video games. This is already why I've noticed some people get scared off from even wanting to play One Hour One Life. One person decides to roleplay a bit and BAM everybody mobs together acting like the person is a monster and freak for doing something added to the game.

I'm sorry if I am coming across rude here. Mikekchar just baffled me with their response (along with a few other responses). o-o

Sylverone · 2018-12-26 06:27:21

Fae wrote:

...what in the world is happening in this thread? Oh my goodness! A person is not a sociopath for wanting to kill another player in a game. People need to stop acting as if violence in video games automatically makes somebody a monster. I grew up playing horror games (and fighting games) along with watching slasher flicks on a regular basis, and never once have I had the desire to hurt somebody.
Hell, I haven't tried to kill somebody on this game either. The guy mentioned in the first post probably mostly plays fighting games to begin with. Maybe he assumed it was competitive? The truth of the matter is that even if you don't LIKE the idea, Jason allowed it so we CAN kill other players. He doesn't want life in the game to be all sunshine and rainbows. Hell, there is a chance he will even add things like firearms too. Though it isn't my cup of tea to kill in these games, some people are going to want to stir the pot.
People need to cool off with playing 'psychologist' with video games. This is already why I've noticed some people get scared off from even wanting to play One Hour One Life. One person decides to roleplay a bit and BAM everybody mobs together acting like the person is a monster and freak for doing something added to the game.
I'm sorry if I am coming across rude here. Mikekchar just baffled me with their response (along with a few other responses). o-o

Overall, I agree, though it depends on the situation. And maybe I went overboard. In any game it's going to happen, and like I've said that's not all bad if managed well. I'm definitely not a stabhappy type, even if someone is suspected of griefing. I like to know who I'm stabbing if I must. And I don't mind roleplay or weirdness, even with a bit of a sharp edge if it is done in good spirit.

I think it partly depends on what type of game it is. In a shooter or RTS, it is automatically agreed going in that "we're going to play out the role of enemies". In this game, clearly there are number of players who have little or no interest in griefing of being griefed. But it's a multifaceted game, and seems to draw a diverse crowd. A side effect of this is that there's something to annoy each person based on their different goals. In a weird way that seems like a good thing, maybe. Comfort zones and all that.

I though it was quite fun when my mom was the "crazy pig lady" in a town recently. She was feeding all the pigs, but one or two others were killing them because they didn't want them taking up tiles in town. The end result was the surviving pigs became a wild bunch north of town which she continued to feed. I didn't know whether she was trying to grief the town, but it seemed like relatively harmless fun, as I didn't see her doing anything else suspicious. So I told my children their grandmother was the crazy pig lady. "It's our family legacy."

Anyway, no hard feelings. The only group that I firmly speak against are the ones who do nothing but grief and waste others' time. And thankfully they are pretty much always a minority and there are mechanics in place to counter them.

Last edited by Sylverone (2018-12-26 06:39:51)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2018-12-22 23:54:04

Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#2 2018-12-23 01:34:31

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#3 2018-12-23 07:09:19

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#4 2018-12-23 07:43:25

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#5 2018-12-23 08:35:07

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#6 2018-12-23 11:12:44

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#7 2018-12-23 12:36:31

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#8 2018-12-23 17:58:11

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#9 2018-12-23 20:55:47

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#10 2018-12-23 21:50:55

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#11 2018-12-24 11:29:12

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#12 2018-12-24 18:36:24

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#13 2018-12-24 22:05:23

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#14 2018-12-25 11:09:13

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#15 2018-12-25 19:11:31

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

#16 2018-12-26 06:27:21

Re: Encountering a would-be griefer in real life.

Board footer