Anti-Greifing (For Killers)

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-26 07:20:34

So im sure that i and so many others have been a victim of greifers, and while there will always be greifers no matter what kinda punisment system, there are ways to minimize it.
That being said im gonna give a few tips to help those that wanna pro-actively stop greifers to do it in a safe and logically manner, here are ten tips to help you spot and prevent greifing:

1. Carry and know the locations of weapons: Having all of the knives in possession of someone who can be trusted can go a long way into preventing greifing outright, and chances are if the person wants to do any greifing, they will be having to ask you personally for it, or if you are perceptive enough, catch them making bows, arrows, and knives at the smith.

2. If someone asks for a knife, ask them more questions in return: For example someone wants a knife, ask them first what for, then if at some point they slip up and say something that you know doesn't require the use of a knife, then you can pretty easily assume they are new, and a greifer.

3. Listen to what people are saying: Did Timmy just curse out Lila for no or little reason? If the argument isn't resolved in about thirty seconds you can probably assume that one of them is going to find a weapon to kill each-other with, not all the time, but usually the one who started it out of the blue will be the guy most likely to start greifing.

4. Do jobs that require knives: If people are asking for knives to slice bread, or kill sheep, or kill snakes etc., you need to take it upon yourself to use the knives you have in your backpack and slice the bread they want, or kill the sheep they want, because giving other people you dont know knives is dangerous, you need to compensate for the lack of people who have them and start filling those roles. Otherwise people are gonna start making new knives or even worst try to kill you because you wont respond.

5. Cooperate with trusted villagers: Most people in the game are nice and wanna help advance their civilization, to enrolling their help can be a big boost to the safety of your village as a whole. Most trusted villagers will be older and have been consistently making progress in one or more aspects of the village. For example, are they making lots of pies? are they building roads? Are they a doctor? Doctors especially are probably the safest bet as anyone that would just sit around with a thead and wool pads waiting to heal someone are probably your safest bet. Also since you wont be carrying 4 knives in your backpack since you are sharing them with someone trusted you have more room for tools and food.

6. Pretty much never give the knives away: Yeah i know its inconvenient for only one or two people to be hogging all the knives, but the alternative is unregulated use of player killing tools which always at one point or another ends in disaster. So unless you know the person you are giving it to like a friend, dont just give these things away willy nilly. You may just be giving a greifer what he wants.

7. Have a plan for when you die: If you die with 4 knives in your backpack in the middle of a populated village, you are basically dropping a set of ak47's in the middle of the US stock market, shits gonna get bad real quick so make sure you got a person you can give your knives to when you die. This usually helps if you got a trusted villager that already has a knife or two as having to question a random guy whether or not he would kll the village whilst your on the brink of death is usually not a very good combination. You gotta also make sure to tell whoever you are giving these knives to to tell who they give their knives to the same deal. By doing this you are continuing to make sure that only trusted villagers will have the means of protecting the village. Maybe even make a check list of what you think is a good villager before you hand them out.

8. Make a medic station: One way or another, no matter how carful you are, greifers are still gonna stab and shoot players, that doesnt however mean they are gone forever. Before all that happens you gotta make sure to get a medic station up. Knife and bow wounds require needle and thread, wool pads, a knife, and a fire. If you have sheep you can make one of these stations in about 10 or so minutes. So even if somehow a greifer manages to get a knife or bow, you will be ready to heal those in need.

9: Be prepared to kill preemptively if you think someones about to greif: Not everyone has the strength to kill a greifer who hasn't done any greifing yet, but you gotta be willing to see it from the right mindset, if you think someone is about to greif and you dont kill them and they start murdering villagers you have failed to see the signs, or failed to go through with your actions. Either way you gotta be willing to pay attention and commit to what you think is the right choice as it may just cost you and your village dearly.

10: Be prepared to get called a greifer: Even if the person you just killed was a knife away from greifing and even admitted it, you may still be branded as a greifer yourself. People dont actively see the signs that you may of seen because they could of been making pies and only saw you with a bloody knife, explain the situation right after you stab the person otherwise you may just be killed and cursed outright. With all of that you could still be killed and or cursed because people could assume you are just making up excuses and if they stab you in return just go ahead and say you greifed, this will make people that see the guy that just killed you seem like a hero, and stop anyone else from killing him that would perpetuate a murder chain.

That all being said hope you all stay safe and perceptive, laters!

Azrael · 2018-12-26 07:37:34

Hm. Yes, just as I suspected, the rules you lay out here are almost identical things that a griefer can do in their lives while griefing.

Hide the weapons, never give them out, kill preemptively, doing jobs that require knives to look less suspicious, if someone wants knives/weapons ask them a multitude of questions.

It just really shows how griefers and anti-griefers are one and the same. When you look at fundamental rules and the basic things that a griefer will do to hide his griefing and to begin griefing, it is the same things that an anti-griefer will do.

So when you think about it, griefer and anti-griefer are both detrimental to society if this is the things they do. No one has trust in anyone, that's what separates us from the griefers and anti-griefers.

Trust is hard to give and is sometimes unwarranted, but it's all we got, if we all trusted a bit more, things would be better.

That's just my look at it I guess.

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-26 07:46:23

Azrael wrote:

Hm. Yes, just as I suspected, the rules you lay out here are almost identical things that a griefer can do in their lives while griefing.
Hide the weapons, never give them out, kill preemptively, doing jobs that require knives to look less suspicious, if someone wants knives/weapons ask them a multitude of questions.
It just really shows how griefers and anti-griefers are one and the same. When you look at fundamental rules and the basic things that a griefer will do to hide his griefing and to begin griefing, it is the same things that an anti-griefer will do.
So when you think about it, griefer and anti-griefer are both detrimental to society if this is the things they do. No one has trust in anyone, that's what separates us from the griefers and anti-griefers.
Trust is hard to give and is sometimes unwarranted, but it's all we got, if we all trusted a bit more, things would be better.
That's just my look at it I guess.

Oof, i said in 5 to cooperate with trusted villagers, im not suggesting to kill anyone that asks for a knife, but just laid around for anyone to use gives no warning for when a greifer starts to look for weapons, then at that point your trusting everyone not to kill anyone and thats just a recipe for disaster.

Azrael · 2018-12-26 07:54:02

Crumpaloo wrote:

Azrael wrote:
Hm. Yes, just as I suspected, the rules you lay out here are almost identical things that a griefer can do in their lives while griefing.
Hide the weapons, never give them out, kill preemptively, doing jobs that require knives to look less suspicious, if someone wants knives/weapons ask them a multitude of questions.
It just really shows how griefers and anti-griefers are one and the same. When you look at fundamental rules and the basic things that a griefer will do to hide his griefing and to begin griefing, it is the same things that an anti-griefer will do.
So when you think about it, griefer and anti-griefer are both detrimental to society if this is the things they do. No one has trust in anyone, that's what separates us from the griefers and anti-griefers.
Trust is hard to give and is sometimes unwarranted, but it's all we got, if we all trusted a bit more, things would be better.
That's just my look at it I guess.
Oof, i said in 5 to cooperate with trusted villagers, im not suggesting to kill anyone that asks for a knife, but just laid around for anyone to use gives no warning for when a greifer starts to look for weapons, then at that point your trusting everyone not to kill anyone and thats just a recipe for disaster.

I saw number 5 but the thing is, how do you know who is trusted if you wont give trust to anyone? no weapon giving, or believing in players. you're not even letting them do knife jobs or have weapons. No trust in this model of rules

lionon · 2018-12-26 08:05:52

Crumpaloo wrote:

So im sure that i and so many others have been a victim of greifers

I know, everybody looooves corrections, but it is "griefing" not "greifing". Just saying since you repeat it over and over. It comes from "grief" as in sorrow.

1. Carry and know the locations of weapons: Having all of the knives in possession of someone who can be trusted can go a long way into preventing greifing outright, and chances are if the person wants to do any greifing, they will be having to ask you personally for it, or if you are perceptive enough, catch them making bows, arrows, and knives at the smith.

Carry one weapon, yes. Having all knives in possession of someone to be "trusted" is exactly the wrong way. First who gonna watch the guards? Second that certain someone can also be shot by one arrow and now all the weapons are in the hand of griefer.

2. If someone asks for a knife, ask them more questions in return: For example someone wants a knife, ask them first what for, then if at some point they slip up and say something that you know doesn't require the use of a knife, then you can pretty easily assume they are new, and a greifer.

Seriously no. If someone asks for a knife and I've seen them being productive, and I currently don't need it, just give it to them. There is a little trust, and if weapons are spread out, they could kill only a few anyway before being stopped and cursed.

3. Listen to what people are saying: Did Timmy just curse out Lila for no or little reason? If the argument isn't resolved in about thirty seconds you can probably assume that one of them is going to find a weapon to kill each-other with, not all the time, but usually the one who started it out of the blue will be the guy most likely to start greifing.

Giving attention to people who seem to deliberately want to rise drama. However you never no what "out of the blue" means. They might have a reason. You seem to be too focused on killing as "griefing". Only noob-griefers go on a rampage. There are many "better" ways. I posted exactly because of this.

4. Do jobs that require knives: If people are asking for knives to slice bread, or kill sheep, or kill snakes etc., you need to take it upon yourself to use the knives you have in your backpack and slice the bread they want, or kill the sheep they want, because giving other people you dont know knives is dangerous, you need to compensate for the lack of people who have them and start filling those roles. Otherwise people are gonna start making new knives or even worst try to kill you because you wont respond.

Well if you have one, you certainly do the jobs for them. Especially if they pile up. But otherwise this doesn't have to have much to do with "griefing".

5. Cooperate with trusted villagers: Most people in the game are nice and wanna help advance their civilization, to enrolling their help can be a big boost to the safety of your village as a whole. Most trusted villagers will be older and have been consistently making progress in one or more aspects of the village. For example, are they making lots of pies? are they building roads? Are they a doctor? Doctors especially are probably the safest bet as anyone that would just sit around with a thead and wool pads waiting to heal someone are probably your safest bet. Also since you wont be carrying 4 knives in your backpack since you are sharing them with someone trusted you have more room for tools and food.

Someone who just stands there with a pads is dead waste. Seriously. And it could be griefer too who fills the role of the "doctor". I'm not all too found of doctoring in the game general. First players who are too inexperienced to keep running into snakes/boars/bears are weight to town anyway, why waste resources to safe them? People who got into a fight also only perpetuate the drama when saved.

6. Pretty much never give the knives away: Yeah i know its inconvenient for only one or two people to be hogging all the knives, but the alternative is unregulated use of player killing tools which always at one point or another ends in disaster. So unless you know the person you are giving it to like a friend, dont just give these things away willy nilly. You may just be giving a greifer what he wants.

Same as one. Wrong. You are already doing what they want by putting them into a pile.

7. Have a plan for when you die: If you die with 4 knives in your backpack in the middle of a populated village, you are basically dropping a set of ak47's in the middle of the US stock market, shits gonna get bad real quick so make sure you got a person you can give your knives to when you die. This usually helps if you got a trusted villager that already has a knife or two as having to question a random guy whether or not he would kll the village whilst your on the brink of death is usually not a very good combination. You gotta also make sure to tell whoever you are giving these knives to to tell who they give their knives to the same deal. By doing this you are continuing to make sure that only trusted villagers will have the means of protecting the village. Maybe even make a check list of what you think is a good villager before you hand them out.

Thats why it was a stupid idea to start with.

8. Make a medic station: One way or another, no matter how carful you are, greifers are still gonna stab and shoot players, that doesnt however mean they are gone forever. Before all that happens you gotta make sure to get a medic station up. Knife and bow wounds require needle and thread, wool pads, a knife, and a fire. If you have sheep you can make one of these stations in about 10 or so minutes. So even if somehow a greifer manages to get a knife or bow, you will be ready to heal those in need.

see 5.

9: Be prepared to kill preemptively if you think someones about to greif: Not everyone has the strength to kill a greifer who hasn't done any greifing yet, but you gotta be willing to see it from the right mindset, if you think someone is about to greif and you dont kill them and they start murdering villagers you have failed to see the signs, or failed to go through with your actions. Either way you gotta be willing to pay attention and commit to what you think is the right choice as it may just cost you and your village dearly.

Yes, yes "war for peace", "f***ing for virginity".. etc.

10: Be prepared to get called a greifer: Even if the person you just killed was a knife away from greifing and even admitted it, you may still be branded as a greifer yourself. People dont actively see the signs that you may of seen because they could of been making pies and only saw you with a bloody knife, explain the situation right after you stab the person otherwise you may just be killed and cursed outright. With all of that you could still be killed and or cursed because people could assume you are just making up excuses and if they stab you in return just go ahead and say you greifed, this will make people that see the guy that just killed you seem like a hero, and stop anyone else from killing him that would perpetuate a murder chain.

I repeat you are drastically reducing the griefer to the noob-griefer. This is all wrong.

I agree with agree with Azrael that this rules are almost identical to griefing, but do not come to his conclusion it is because there isn't so much difference. No it's the way, because this all bad advice. And yes, there I agree with him again on the surface, being genuine "clumsy" is not that much different to a griefer who does this on purpose. The difference is in who to deal with them. Genuine people generally can be talked with, griefers cannot.

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-26 08:17:50

Azrael wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
Azrael wrote:
Hm. Yes, just as I suspected, the rules you lay out here are almost identical things that a griefer can do in their lives while griefing.
Hide the weapons, never give them out, kill preemptively, doing jobs that require knives to look less suspicious, if someone wants knives/weapons ask them a multitude of questions.
It just really shows how griefers and anti-griefers are one and the same. When you look at fundamental rules and the basic things that a griefer will do to hide his griefing and to begin griefing, it is the same things that an anti-griefer will do.
So when you think about it, griefer and anti-griefer are both detrimental to society if this is the things they do. No one has trust in anyone, that's what separates us from the griefers and anti-griefers.
Trust is hard to give and is sometimes unwarranted, but it's all we got, if we all trusted a bit more, things would be better.
That's just my look at it I guess.
Oof, i said in 5 to cooperate with trusted villagers, im not suggesting to kill anyone that asks for a knife, but just laid around for anyone to use gives no warning for when a greifer starts to look for weapons, then at that point your trusting everyone not to kill anyone and thats just a recipe for disaster.
I saw number 5 but the thing is, how do you know who is trusted if you wont give trust to anyone? no weapon giving, or believing in players. you're not even letting them do knife jobs or have weapons. No trust in this model of rules

Just gotta trust in moderation

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-26 08:49:36

lionon wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
So im sure that i and so many others have been a victim of greifers
I know, everybody looooves corrections, but it is "griefing" not "greifing". Just saying since you repeat it over and over. It comes from "grief" as in sorrow.
1. Carry and know the locations of weapons: Having all of the knives in possession of someone who can be trusted can go a long way into preventing greifing outright, and chances are if the person wants to do any greifing, they will be having to ask you personally for it, or if you are perceptive enough, catch them making bows, arrows, and knives at the smith.
Carry one weapon, yes. Having all knives in possession of someone to be "trusted" is exactly the wrong way. First who gonna watch the guards? Second that certain someone can also be shot by one arrow and now all the weapons are in the hand of griefer.
2. If someone asks for a knife, ask them more questions in return: For example someone wants a knife, ask them first what for, then if at some point they slip up and say something that you know doesn't require the use of a knife, then you can pretty easily assume they are new, and a greifer.
Seriously no. If someone asks for a knife and I've seen them being productive, and I currently don't need it, just give it to them. There is a little trust, and if weapons are spread out, they could kill only a few anyway before being stopped and cursed.
3. Listen to what people are saying: Did Timmy just curse out Lila for no or little reason? If the argument isn't resolved in about thirty seconds you can probably assume that one of them is going to find a weapon to kill each-other with, not all the time, but usually the one who started it out of the blue will be the guy most likely to start greifing.
Giving attention to people who seem to deliberately want to rise drama. However you never no what "out of the blue" means. They might have a reason. You seem to be too focused on killing as "griefing". Only noob-griefers go on a rampage. There are many "better" ways. I posted exactly because of this.
4. Do jobs that require knives: If people are asking for knives to slice bread, or kill sheep, or kill snakes etc., you need to take it upon yourself to use the knives you have in your backpack and slice the bread they want, or kill the sheep they want, because giving other people you dont know knives is dangerous, you need to compensate for the lack of people who have them and start filling those roles. Otherwise people are gonna start making new knives or even worst try to kill you because you wont respond.
Well if you have one, you certainly do the jobs for them. Especially if they pile up. But otherwise this doesn't have to have much to do with "griefing".
5. Cooperate with trusted villagers: Most people in the game are nice and wanna help advance their civilization, to enrolling their help can be a big boost to the safety of your village as a whole. Most trusted villagers will be older and have been consistently making progress in one or more aspects of the village. For example, are they making lots of pies? are they building roads? Are they a doctor? Doctors especially are probably the safest bet as anyone that would just sit around with a thead and wool pads waiting to heal someone are probably your safest bet. Also since you wont be carrying 4 knives in your backpack since you are sharing them with someone trusted you have more room for tools and food.
Someone who just stands there with a pads is dead waste. Seriously. And it could be griefer too who fills the role of the "doctor". I'm not all too found of doctoring in the game general. First players who are too inexperienced to keep running into snakes/boars/bears are weight to town anyway, why waste resources to safe them? People who got into a fight also only perpetuate the drama when saved.

6. Pretty much never give the knives away: Yeah i know its inconvenient for only one or two people to be hogging all the knives, but the alternative is unregulated use of player killing tools which always at one point or another ends in disaster. So unless you know the person you are giving it to like a friend, dont just give these things away willy nilly. You may just be giving a greifer what he wants.
Same as one. Wrong. You are already doing what they want by putting them into a pile.
7. Have a plan for when you die: If you die with 4 knives in your backpack in the middle of a populated village, you are basically dropping a set of ak47's in the middle of the US stock market, shits gonna get bad real quick so make sure you got a person you can give your knives to when you die. This usually helps if you got a trusted villager that already has a knife or two as having to question a random guy whether or not he would kll the village whilst your on the brink of death is usually not a very good combination. You gotta also make sure to tell whoever you are giving these knives to to tell who they give their knives to the same deal. By doing this you are continuing to make sure that only trusted villagers will have the means of protecting the village. Maybe even make a check list of what you think is a good villager before you hand them out.
Thats why it was a stupid idea to start with.
8. Make a medic station: One way or another, no matter how carful you are, greifers are still gonna stab and shoot players, that doesnt however mean they are gone forever. Before all that happens you gotta make sure to get a medic station up. Knife and bow wounds require needle and thread, wool pads, a knife, and a fire. If you have sheep you can make one of these stations in about 10 or so minutes. So even if somehow a greifer manages to get a knife or bow, you will be ready to heal those in need.
see 5.
9: Be prepared to kill preemptively if you think someones about to greif: Not everyone has the strength to kill a greifer who hasn't done any greifing yet, but you gotta be willing to see it from the right mindset, if you think someone is about to greif and you dont kill them and they start murdering villagers you have failed to see the signs, or failed to go through with your actions. Either way you gotta be willing to pay attention and commit to what you think is the right choice as it may just cost you and your village dearly.
Yes, yes "war for peace", "f***ing for virginity".. etc.
10: Be prepared to get called a greifer: Even if the person you just killed was a knife away from greifing and even admitted it, you may still be branded as a greifer yourself. People dont actively see the signs that you may of seen because they could of been making pies and only saw you with a bloody knife, explain the situation right after you stab the person otherwise you may just be killed and cursed outright. With all of that you could still be killed and or cursed because people could assume you are just making up excuses and if they stab you in return just go ahead and say you greifed, this will make people that see the guy that just killed you seem like a hero, and stop anyone else from killing him that would perpetuate a murder chain.
I repeat you are drastically reducing the griefer to the noob-griefer. This is all wrong.
I agree with agree with Azrael that this rules are almost identical to griefing, but do not come to his conclusion it is because there isn't so much difference. No it's the way, because this all bad advice. And yes, there I agree with him again on the surface, being genuine "clumsy" is not that much different to a griefer who does this on purpose. The difference is in who to deal with them. Genuine people generally can be talked with, griefers cannot.

All of these criticism are either half baked or or just plain insults, of course you wanna have the backpack on at all times, ive never implied to throw it all in a pile, quite the opposite actually. Some people just dont got the will to go through with killing a greifer and that where i cant see your point. If its gonna come down to letting someone im very sure is a griefer stay alive and potentially kill the entire village, and saving the village, im gonna pick the latter, moderating your trust and knowing what to do in these situations is alot more important then just standing idly by and hoping you dont get a greifer born.

lionon · 2018-12-26 10:35:09

Crumpaloo wrote:

All of these criticism are either half baked or or just plain insults, of course you wanna have the backpack on at all times, ive never implied to throw it all in a pile, quite the opposite actually. Some people just dont got the will to go through with killing a greifer and that where i cant see your point. If its gonna come down to letting someone im very sure is a griefer stay alive and potentially kill the entire village, and saving the village, im gonna pick the latter, moderating your trust and knowing what to do in these situations is alot more important then just standing idly by and hoping you dont get a greifer born.

If at least you would have read the criticism so far to get it is called a griefer.

Tarr · 2018-12-26 11:31:10

Crumpaloo wrote:

1. Carry and know the locations of weapons: Having all of the knives in possession of someone who can be trusted can go a long way into preventing greifing outright, and chances are if the person wants to do any greifing, they will be having to ask you personally for it, or if you are perceptive enough, catch them making bows, arrows, and knives at the smith.

At no point should one or two people have all of the towns knives. When people end up hogging the knives more are needed to be made so town can keep moving smoothly. If anything knives should be spread among as many people as possible and left in work station areas. This allows those wanting to transition from one job to another more smoothly.

Crumpaloo wrote:

2. If someone asks for a knife, ask them more questions in return: For example someone wants a knife, ask them first what for, then if at some point they slip up and say something that you know doesn't require the use of a knife, then you can pretty easily assume they are new, and a greifer.

Normally if I'm not using my a knife and someone asks for it I'll just pass it. With the addition of snowballs I don't need to carry a knife on my persons 24/7 to remove (potential) griefers. I can just snowball them to death and return back to whatever work I'm doing in a village without any real worry.

Crumpaloo wrote:

3. Listen to what people are saying: Did Timmy just curse out Lila for no or little reason? If the argument isn't resolved in about thirty seconds you can probably assume that one of them is going to find a weapon to kill each-other with, not all the time, but usually the one who started it out of the blue will be the guy most likely to start greifing.

Communication is always key. People end up in stabbing chains because they see red and proceed to stab instead of seeing what the commotion is about. Unfortunately, with stabbing another person comes the ability to heal the stabbed party. I've put a "stop" to a griefer before only to find someone healed them without second thought. Thankfully our snowy overlord puts a stop to this sort of issue anyways.

Crumpaloo wrote:

4. Do jobs that require knives: If people are asking for knives to slice bread, or kill sheep, or kill snakes etc., you need to take it upon yourself to use the knives you have in your backpack and slice the bread they want, or kill the sheep they want, because giving other people you dont know knives is dangerous, you need to compensate for the lack of people who have them and start filling those roles. Otherwise people are gonna start making new knives or even worst try to kill you because you wont respond.

While this starts off on the right foot yet again it leads into this mentality that only one person in a camp should have a knife. Knives are tools first and a weapon second. You shouldn't be keeping knives from the people just to prevent the griefer boogyman. In a well functioning town the people will defend themselves when equipped with weapons. Obviously in practice this doesn't always work out but the idea of "guards" has never worked even when the population of the game was at its lowest.

Crumpaloo wrote:

5. Cooperate with trusted villagers: Most people in the game are nice and wanna help advance their civilization, to enrolling their help can be a big boost to the safety of your village as a whole. Most trusted villagers will be older and have been consistently making progress in one or more aspects of the village. For example, are they making lots of pies? are they building roads? Are they a doctor? Doctors especially are probably the safest bet as anyone that would just sit around with a thead and wool pads waiting to heal someone are probably your safest bet. Also since you wont be carrying 4 knives in your backpack since you are sharing them with someone trusted you have more room for tools and food.

The shepherd, the baker, and the doctor all need their own knives at the very least. Multiple bakers? Then you might need a second knife for the bakery. Depending on the size of the sheep pen and how often it needs cleared you might have multiple shepherds with knives to keep the place clean. Knife hogs end up just creating more knives in the long run as anyone who needs a knife to work will just make one instead of trying to fool with asking the knife hoarder.

Crumpaloo wrote:

6. Pretty much never give the knives away: Yeah i know its inconvenient for only one or two people to be hogging all the knives, but the alternative is unregulated use of player killing tools which always at one point or another ends in disaster. So unless you know the person you are giving it to like a friend, dont just give these things away willy nilly. You may just be giving a greifer what he wants.

This is by far the worst advice for the entire thread. Knives are tools people need to actually work within a city. Many of the jobs that allow the city to run smoothly are going to require a knife and screwing the city over due to paranoia is just plain silly. It's not that hard to remove an asshat with a knife and if you cannot stop one guy with everyone armed your city deserves to perish anyway. The bad guy is always going to get a weapon one way or another so it's better to just arm the regular people and allow them to remove the pest themselves. If you think someone is being a bad egg just snowball them, problem solved.

Crumpaloo wrote:

7. Have a plan for when you die: If you die with 4 knives in your backpack in the middle of a populated village, you are basically dropping a set of ak47's in the middle of the US stock market, shits gonna get bad real quick so make sure you got a person you can give your knives to when you die. This usually helps if you got a trusted villager that already has a knife or two as having to question a random guy whether or not he would kll the village whilst your on the brink of death is usually not a very good combination. You gotta also make sure to tell whoever you are giving these knives to to tell who they give their knives to the same deal. By doing this you are continuing to make sure that only trusted villagers will have the means of protecting the village. Maybe even make a check list of what you think is a good villager before you hand them out.

Knife hoarders = bad. Spreading knives out or leaving them in the related work stations = good.

Crumpaloo wrote:

8. Make a medic station: One way or another, no matter how carful you are, greifers are still gonna stab and shoot players, that doesnt however mean they are gone forever. Before all that happens you gotta make sure to get a medic station up. Knife and bow wounds require needle and thread, wool pads, a knife, and a fire. If you have sheep you can make one of these stations in about 10 or so minutes. So even if somehow a greifer manages to get a knife or bow, you will be ready to heal those in need.

Pretty much all towns need some sort of healing area to treat wounds and is in an area people are near most of the time. This allows for people to watch for trolls dirtying the pads and allows for people to see where to go and who is being healed. I always preferred bows due to how much harder they are to heal. Normally this is a death sentence for people as knife hoarders prevent arrow healing.

Crumpaloo wrote:

9: Be prepared to kill preemptively if you think someones about to greif: Not everyone has the strength to kill a greifer who hasn't done any greifing yet, but you gotta be willing to see it from the right mindset, if you think someone is about to greif and you dont kill them and they start murdering villagers you have failed to see the signs, or failed to go through with your actions. Either way you gotta be willing to pay attention and commit to what you think is the right choice as it may just cost you and your village dearly.

I mean you aren't completely wrong but it's hard for new player to gauge when they're supposed to remove someone before they start doing something worth killing over. Clearly stuff like racism or sexism is a clear indicator that the person in question isn't here to help the town grow and should be knifed. However sometimes people end up being rude because of something YOU end up doing. I remember nearly finishing up the town oil rig at 57 but someone took the charcoal from my station because they wanted to smelt a single steel bar. Clearly I was mad because I was doing something for the future people but got screwed by someone being lazy.

Also people have to learn the idea that not all murder=griefing. Sometimes people just got to leave.

Crumpaloo wrote:

10: Be prepared to get called a greifer: Even if the person you just killed was a knife away from greifing and even admitted it, you may still be branded as a greifer yourself. People dont actively see the signs that you may of seen because they could of been making pies and only saw you with a bloody knife, explain the situation right after you stab the person otherwise you may just be killed and cursed outright. With all of that you could still be killed and or cursed because people could assume you are just making up excuses and if they stab you in return just go ahead and say you greifed, this will make people that see the guy that just killed you seem like a hero, and stop anyone else from killing him that would perpetuate a murder chain.

Being a knife hog is griefing though. Yes, sometimes people are going to curse you for killing the griefer, I remember killing someone who randomly shot my granddaughter and steam player #307 seen me with a bloody weapon and cursed me. Thankfully one off random curses don't matter due to burning them more often than derp players get their tokens. The town then proceed to collectively curse the griefer I just shot and we moved on with it. That one curse doesn't remotely matter and was worth removing the troll before she killed more people. I can't stop people from blowing their tokens on the wrong people but I can remove the threats from towns before more damage is done.

While you might have some good ideas you also have some very very bad ideas that silly new players in the community always end up having anyways.

pein · 2018-12-26 12:24:21

you can disarm attackers with snowball and with mosquitoes, so run to jungle or ice
wait until they return normal or starve
i miss shrooming the killers was way too funny

never give babies or kids knife
the knives are for compost makers (they care about long therm and know the compost cycle including killing sheep)
bakers to cut bread and mango
and the smith who can make one anyway

not for our stupid lazy daughters! they will kill someone who doesn't deserve it!

other rule is no weapons inside city, stash it, if you cant stash it you cant have it, its one click to kill someone with open weapon and makes others uneasy, also they can steal it and kill you. and people who hold weapons for a long time will kill someone eventually or they just try to bully others

same goes for packs and aprons, not just weapons, check if the person is working at all, don't just give it to anyone, it's a waste and causes problems later on, as noobs hold on to items they cannot make and make the whole progress slower, a good explorer with a pack can get tons of resources, while making itself a pack takes 20 minutes sometimes, meanwhile a noob stores 4 berries in it, warm clothes are fine for babies, once they assured that they stay
they lose it way too often outside city so its just better to hide until someone decent comes

if you cant make a knife you shouldn't have one

noobs with knives will kill the person killing a griefer or someone just cause
or make them a target and lose it anyway

it still wont be a good idea to store weapons in the city
put them further so people wont find it easy or lock them away
we should make rooms so animals cant enter, than its enough time to open a chest with bow and arrows
once you got sheep, file, no need for having a bow, if someone needs a bow to hunt, or get a cow, can ask for it

a naked kid holding a weapon is always a bad sign

you see a 8-12 year old die its probably legit kill, the fully geared person usually knows what is doing, don't question it against a naked noob who has a bow near his body

hiding it can work, if you cant make sure someone decent has it
just hide it further so naked noob twins wont find it behind a corner or something
if they can explore properly then probably they can play properly too
anyone who focuses on weapons before clothes, has bad intentions

WomanWizard · 2018-12-26 14:50:53

I'm going to go against others and agree with you about talking to people before you give them a knife. Ideally though, if you have a knife you will be watching the town well enough to know who you can trust to give it to when needed. If I have a knife in game and I'm not actively using it for any jobs, I always check the big knife needing jobs to make sure they have one and pass it on right away if they don't, preferably with my apron as well if they don't have one of those either.

But yeah, don't hoard knives. Pass them around if you have more than one and other people have clothing they can store it in. If more people have knives, they are more likely to stab the griefer next time they show up.

Also, if you preemptively kill griefers (I stabbed a guy last night who was completely failing to stab others, but clearly trying to) be prepared to die. Others aren't watching like you are and for some reason would rather stab you in a second rather than talk it out. Just don't be rude to them, and don't tell anyone you are a griefer. It may prevent the other person from getting stabbed, but increases your chance of being sent to Donkey Town (I guess if there's only a few people in town there isn't much risk, but I'd rather be safe than sorry and keep my total curse score low if possible.)

The big one you're missing with your med station: Know how to use it, and keep it clear. I had to play doctor last night because of griefing and as soon as someone got shot or stabbed suddenly the med station was swarming with people, making it hard to click the right person and put things down when needed. And when the griefer showed up to dirty all of the pads, there's were people standing all around so stabbing him without accidentally stabbing someone else was going to be tricky. It kind of defeated the purpose of me guarding the station in the first place, once again solidifying the idea that doctors are completely useless in the game.

Hide some pads in a bowl behind a wall if you have an active griefer. Show trustworthy people where they are.

So for those who don't know meds. Stab wound: use a sterile pad on the wound then stitch it up with a needle and thread. Nice and easy. Arrow wounds: Pull the arrow out with your empty hands, use your knife on a fire to sterilize it then click on the wounded person to open them up. Then somehow put your knife away without stabbing the twenty people also trying to help your patient, and click on them again with bare hands to pull the arrow head out. Clean and stitch it up as normal, then get shot by a noob for "stabbing" someone.

Sylverone · 2018-12-26 14:51:22

Since I'm fairly new still you all probably know the logistics behind functioning towns better than I do. But from my perspective based on what others have said these are the meta-issues with the suggestions in the OP.

1. Concentration of power. This causes logistical problems as well as perhaps an excess of nervousness in the town. Having all knives on one person locked behind an approval process inevitably leads to slowdown. In addition to this people become acutely aware that this one person is the only thing between them and death if a murderer does come around (and there's nothing if the person with the knives IS the griefer).

2. Self-election. You have essentially elected yourself as official distibutor of deadly power and essential tools. This CAN in theory work if you are a very skilled player (to handle the logistical issues) and a good communicator who reads people and situations well (in a way most would agree is fair). But this game has small populations. So let's say you actually happen to be a GOOD dictator of knives for your village. (An assumption anyone else has fair reason to be suspicious of until you prove yourself.) What are the chances someone else will be able to do the same job in a way that still leaves everyone happy?

Basically it suffers from a problem akin to dictatorship. In principle putting the most virtuous person in control of power can work very well (as long as the responsibilities don't stretch them too thin and make them ineffective), but even if you start with a benevolent and competent dictator, in the line of succession sooner or later something goes wrong. Either (a. Someone receives the power who is not benevolent; or (b. A successor proves to not be competent enough and a revolution occurs. And dishonest people put on their very best acts when they know they have an opportunity to receive near absolute control of power.

It's not obvious that this is better than distributing the knives evenly amongst the population, making some efforts to concentrate them in the hands of the more experienced and trustworthy.

That said, I'm always curious to see how things play out. Have you been doing this already on a regular basis, Crumpaloo? Has it worked? How did those lines die?

Last edited by Sylverone (2018-12-26 14:53:19)

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-26 16:31:48

Sylverone wrote:

Since I'm fairly new still you all probably know the logistics behind functioning towns better than I do. But from my perspective based on what others have said these are the meta-issues with the suggestions in the OP.
1. Concentration of power. This causes logistical problems as well as perhaps an excess of nervousness in the town. Having all knives on one person locked behind an approval process inevitably leads to slowdown. In addition to this people become acutely aware that this one person is the only thing between them and death if a murderer does come around (and there's nothing if the person with the knives IS the griefer).
2. Self-election. You have essentially elected yourself as official distibutor of deadly power and essential tools. This CAN in theory work if you are a very skilled player (to handle the logistical issues) and a good communicator who reads people and situations well (in a way most would agree is fair). But this game has small populations. So let's say you actually happen to be a GOOD dictator of knives for your village. (An assumption anyone else has fair reason to be suspicious of until you prove yourself.) What are the chances someone else will be able to do the same job in a way that still leaves everyone happy?
Basically it suffers from a problem akin to dictatorship. In principle putting the most virtuous person in control of power can work very well (as long as the responsibilities don't stretch them too thin and make them ineffective), but even if you start with a benevolent and competent dictator, in the line of succession sooner or later something goes wrong. Either (a. Someone receives the power who is not benevolent; or (b. A successor proves to not be competent enough and a revolution occurs. And dishonest people put on their very best acts when they know they have an opportunity to receive near absolute control of power.
It's not obvious that this is better than distributing the knives evenly amongst the population, making some efforts to concentrate them in the hands of the more experienced and trustworthy.
That said, I'm always curious to see how things play out. Have you been doing this already on a regular basis, Crumpaloo? Has it worked? How did those lines die?

Well first off i wanna suggest that anyone new ignore this post until they know enough about the game to do this effectively. I think what the problem is that not everyone can handle a role like this competently, i have had several lives where withholding knives has worked quite well, a would be greifer asked me for a knife for baking and when i told him that you dont need a knife to make pies he just kept saying he needed one. If the knives were out on the floor there would of been nothing preventing him from picking up the knife and stabbing the closest person. So i killed her preemptively and as it turns out my intuition was right. I even urged in my post for people to have more then just one guy with all the knives as the more trusted people with knives the easier it is to protect and fulfill the jobs that require them.

The point of withholding weapons is that you want people to kill each other less, and not having knives strewn about the village can go a long way to preventing that. I know it can be annoying to have one guy hold all the knives in a village, but the alternative is a ticking time bomb.

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-26 17:44:14

Tarr wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
1. Carry and know the locations of weapons: Having all of the knives in possession of someone who can be trusted can go a long way into preventing greifing outright, and chances are if the person wants to do any greifing, they will be having to ask you personally for it, or if you are perceptive enough, catch them making bows, arrows, and knives at the smith.
At no point should one or two people have all of the towns knives. When people end up hogging the knives more are needed to be made so town can keep moving smoothly. If anything knives should be spread among as many people as possible and left in work station areas. This allows those wanting to transition from one job to another more smoothly.
Crumpaloo wrote:
2. If someone asks for a knife, ask them more questions in return: For example someone wants a knife, ask them first what for, then if at some point they slip up and say something that you know doesn't require the use of a knife, then you can pretty easily assume they are new, and a greifer.
Normally if I'm not using my a knife and someone asks for it I'll just pass it. With the addition of snowballs I don't need to carry a knife on my persons 24/7 to remove (potential) griefers. I can just snowball them to death and return back to whatever work I'm doing in a village without any real worry.
Crumpaloo wrote:
3. Listen to what people are saying: Did Timmy just curse out Lila for no or little reason? If the argument isn't resolved in about thirty seconds you can probably assume that one of them is going to find a weapon to kill each-other with, not all the time, but usually the one who started it out of the blue will be the guy most likely to start greifing.
Communication is always key. People end up in stabbing chains because they see red and proceed to stab instead of seeing what the commotion is about. Unfortunately, with stabbing another person comes the ability to heal the stabbed party. I've put a "stop" to a griefer before only to find someone healed them without second thought. Thankfully our snowy overlord puts a stop to this sort of issue anyways.
Crumpaloo wrote:
4. Do jobs that require knives: If people are asking for knives to slice bread, or kill sheep, or kill snakes etc., you need to take it upon yourself to use the knives you have in your backpack and slice the bread they want, or kill the sheep they want, because giving other people you dont know knives is dangerous, you need to compensate for the lack of people who have them and start filling those roles. Otherwise people are gonna start making new knives or even worst try to kill you because you wont respond.
While this starts off on the right foot yet again it leads into this mentality that only one person in a camp should have a knife. Knives are tools first and a weapon second. You shouldn't be keeping knives from the people just to prevent the griefer boogyman. In a well functioning town the people will defend themselves when equipped with weapons. Obviously in practice this doesn't always work out but the idea of "guards" has never worked even when the population of the game was at its lowest.
Crumpaloo wrote:
5. Cooperate with trusted villagers: Most people in the game are nice and wanna help advance their civilization, to enrolling their help can be a big boost to the safety of your village as a whole. Most trusted villagers will be older and have been consistently making progress in one or more aspects of the village. For example, are they making lots of pies? are they building roads? Are they a doctor? Doctors especially are probably the safest bet as anyone that would just sit around with a thead and wool pads waiting to heal someone are probably your safest bet. Also since you wont be carrying 4 knives in your backpack since you are sharing them with someone trusted you have more room for tools and food.
The shepherd, the baker, and the doctor all need their own knives at the very least. Multiple bakers? Then you might need a second knife for the bakery. Depending on the size of the sheep pen and how often it needs cleared you might have multiple shepherds with knives to keep the place clean. Knife hogs end up just creating more knives in the long run as anyone who needs a knife to work will just make one instead of trying to fool with asking the knife hoarder.
Crumpaloo wrote:
6. Pretty much never give the knives away: Yeah i know its inconvenient for only one or two people to be hogging all the knives, but the alternative is unregulated use of player killing tools which always at one point or another ends in disaster. So unless you know the person you are giving it to like a friend, dont just give these things away willy nilly. You may just be giving a greifer what he wants.
This is by far the worst advice for the entire thread. Knives are tools people need to actually work within a city. Many of the jobs that allow the city to run smoothly are going to require a knife and screwing the city over due to paranoia is just plain silly. It's not that hard to remove an asshat with a knife and if you cannot stop one guy with everyone armed your city deserves to perish anyway. The bad guy is always going to get a weapon one way or another so it's better to just arm the regular people and allow them to remove the pest themselves. If you think someone is being a bad egg just snowball them, problem solved.
Crumpaloo wrote:
7. Have a plan for when you die: If you die with 4 knives in your backpack in the middle of a populated village, you are basically dropping a set of ak47's in the middle of the US stock market, shits gonna get bad real quick so make sure you got a person you can give your knives to when you die. This usually helps if you got a trusted villager that already has a knife or two as having to question a random guy whether or not he would kll the village whilst your on the brink of death is usually not a very good combination. You gotta also make sure to tell whoever you are giving these knives to to tell who they give their knives to the same deal. By doing this you are continuing to make sure that only trusted villagers will have the means of protecting the village. Maybe even make a check list of what you think is a good villager before you hand them out.
Knife hoarders = bad. Spreading knives out or leaving them in the related work stations = good.
Crumpaloo wrote:
8. Make a medic station: One way or another, no matter how carful you are, greifers are still gonna stab and shoot players, that doesnt however mean they are gone forever. Before all that happens you gotta make sure to get a medic station up. Knife and bow wounds require needle and thread, wool pads, a knife, and a fire. If you have sheep you can make one of these stations in about 10 or so minutes. So even if somehow a greifer manages to get a knife or bow, you will be ready to heal those in need.
Pretty much all towns need some sort of healing area to treat wounds and is in an area people are near most of the time. This allows for people to watch for trolls dirtying the pads and allows for people to see where to go and who is being healed. I always preferred bows due to how much harder they are to heal. Normally this is a death sentence for people as knife hoarders prevent arrow healing.
Crumpaloo wrote:
9: Be prepared to kill preemptively if you think someones about to greif: Not everyone has the strength to kill a greifer who hasn't done any greifing yet, but you gotta be willing to see it from the right mindset, if you think someone is about to greif and you dont kill them and they start murdering villagers you have failed to see the signs, or failed to go through with your actions. Either way you gotta be willing to pay attention and commit to what you think is the right choice as it may just cost you and your village dearly.
I mean you aren't completely wrong but it's hard for new player to gauge when they're supposed to remove someone before they start doing something worth killing over. Clearly stuff like racism or sexism is a clear indicator that the person in question isn't here to help the town grow and should be knifed. However sometimes people end up being rude because of something YOU end up doing. I remember nearly finishing up the town oil rig at 57 but someone took the charcoal from my station because they wanted to smelt a single steel bar. Clearly I was mad because I was doing something for the future people but got screwed by someone being lazy.
Also people have to learn the idea that not all murder=griefing. Sometimes people just got to leave.
Crumpaloo wrote:
10: Be prepared to get called a greifer: Even if the person you just killed was a knife away from greifing and even admitted it, you may still be branded as a greifer yourself. People dont actively see the signs that you may of seen because they could of been making pies and only saw you with a bloody knife, explain the situation right after you stab the person otherwise you may just be killed and cursed outright. With all of that you could still be killed and or cursed because people could assume you are just making up excuses and if they stab you in return just go ahead and say you greifed, this will make people that see the guy that just killed you seem like a hero, and stop anyone else from killing him that would perpetuate a murder chain.
Being a knife hog is griefing though. Yes, sometimes people are going to curse you for killing the griefer, I remember killing someone who randomly shot my granddaughter and steam player #307 seen me with a bloody weapon and cursed me. Thankfully one off random curses don't matter due to burning them more often than derp players get their tokens. The town then proceed to collectively curse the griefer I just shot and we moved on with it. That one curse doesn't remotely matter and was worth removing the troll before she killed more people. I can't stop people from blowing their tokens on the wrong people but I can remove the threats from towns before more damage is done.
While you might have some good ideas you also have some very very bad ideas that silly new players in the community always end up having anyways.

I agree you have some good points but i dont understand spreading out knives in a village, and the more you spread out the knives the harder it becomes to keep track of them, letting a couple slip through the cracks is more then enough to cause havoc, by keeping the knives to a few trusted and knowlegable players, it is extremly easy to pick up on greifer activity.

mrslax · 2018-12-26 19:00:10

Knives are tools like anything other tools. you can't always track them all the time and got to have some trust with other people. If you have more than one knife try to give it to someone that will use it for good. Dying with a pack full of knives is bad and that no way to hand them out. also, Griefers don't usually use knives for many reasons so they are not that much of an issue.

walking around town with a loaded bow and arrow now that is trouble.

Three · 2018-12-26 19:12:40

The knives should be spread out, if one griefer gets one knife and stabs the knife hog what are you going to do? He has all the weapons. If they are spread out you have a much higher chance to kill the griefer

lionon · 2018-12-26 19:29:26

Three wrote:

The knives should be spread out, if one griefer gets one knife and stabs the knife hog what are you going to do? He has all the weapons. If they are spread out you have a much higher chance to kill the griefer

I agree. Tell you a story. The town I was in was in horrible shape, the compost cycle didn't work, there lots of bread doughs in the kitchen - since the plates we're all filled and waiting for mutton and the pen full of shorn sheep. Hunger was also a problem. So I go and made a knife. Yes, I admit my error was to make that knife without having a backpack, but that town desperately needed sheep to be cut and bread to made.... So I cut the sheep, I make the bread, and then some stupid women came and stole my knife "for protection"... (yes I had to put it down for eating, since no backpack).. Seriously... then I saw that the had already 2 knifes in her backpack! She was hording them "for security"... while the town suffered of no knifes. Now she had three. Well as I couldn't do much about it, I kept going to her and pestering to do the knife jobs at least, if she already insists of thinking she is the one and only trustworthy player here (btw, seriously???). Well and then like it was asking for trouble a twin pair of real griefers shot her... and there is was nothing I could do about it as the other was looting her backpack. See? She was real pest, and albeit well intended if the intention would be different it would be griefing... taking all knifes, not doing the knife jobs, and in the end "giving" it all to "another" griefer...

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-26 19:47:42

Three wrote:

The knives should be spread out, if one griefer gets one knife and stabs the knife hog what are you going to do? He has all the weapons. If they are spread out you have a much higher chance to kill the griefer

Actually thats the point, having all the player killing tools on two or three players puts them as a higher target on the greifers hitlist, which is why i strongly recommend anyone doing this to be perceptive and know what they are doing.

disoculated · 2018-12-26 20:59:34

Three wrote:

The knives should be spread out, if one griefer gets one knife and stabs the knife hog what are you going to do? He has all the weapons. If they are spread out you have a much higher chance to kill the griefer

But the griefer can't pick up anything, so all they've done is provided a cache of weapons right next to the act for any/all who wish to make some sort of personal.... statement about it.

Sylverone · 2018-12-27 05:39:30

disoculated wrote:

Three wrote:
The knives should be spread out, if one griefer gets one knife and stabs the knife hog what are you going to do? He has all the weapons. If they are spread out you have a much higher chance to kill the griefer
But the griefer can't pick up anything, so all they've done is provided a cache of weapons right next to the act for any/all who wish to make some sort of personal.... statement about it.

Though as lionon's story illustrates, that's not the case when there are multiple griefers.

I'm not surprised that it can work in the short term. Essentially it's a sheriff and deputy type thing. The issue for me is: how stable is it over generations? We can easily suggest answers but we have personal bias. But it would take some work to try to get objective data.

Whatever the case, both sides of the debate have the same goal, and actually are aiming toward a similar situation: knives and important crafting locations/tasks being under the control of the most competent and team-spirited players.

In truth, I suspect there are ideal situations for both strategies. And in practice, I imagine those who have defended villages have used both strategies at different times. Sometimes you gotta play keep away, sometimes you gotta pass out the defenses and put people on alert. Maybe? That doesn't mean that one strategy isn't a better choice for the default, though, because there isn't always someone present who can do the mental juggling required to make the best choice.

The real problem is how to determine whether someone should have a knife, right? (And determining whether a killing was justified before further killing.) After that it's just a matter of: should they have the knife? If not, don't give it to them or ask them to drop it. so regardless of how knives are distributed, knowing who's trustworthy is tops.

I suppose the main time when knife "ownership" is important is when there are only one or two, especially if short on iron. I imagine in that case you would want your most worthy villager holding the knife and doing the knife jobs if possible, since the village is still small.

Last edited by Sylverone (2018-12-27 05:42:18)

Three · 2018-12-27 08:52:55

Crumpaloo wrote:

Three wrote:
The knives should be spread out, if one griefer gets one knife and stabs the knife hog what are you going to do? He has all the weapons. If they are spread out you have a much higher chance to kill the griefer
Actually thats the point, having all the player killing tools on two or three players puts them as a higher target on the greifers hitlist, which is why i strongly recommend anyone doing this to be perceptive and know what they are doing.

If that's the point it's not working very well

karltown_veteran · 2018-12-27 15:55:48

Thanks for the guide, I appreciate it

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-27 19:50:13

Three wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
Three wrote:
The knives should be spread out, if one griefer gets one knife and stabs the knife hog what are you going to do? He has all the weapons. If they are spread out you have a much higher chance to kill the griefer
Actually thats the point, having all the player killing tools on two or three players puts them as a higher target on the greifers hitlist, which is why i strongly recommend anyone doing this to be perceptive and know what they are doing.
If that's the point it's not working very well

What? If two or three people have the knives and a greifer wants to kill someone they are gonna have to either ask or smith another, both of which are fairly easy to see coming if you have them on hand.

Crumpaloo · 2018-12-27 20:02:45

Sylverone wrote:

disoculated wrote:
Three wrote:
The knives should be spread out, if one griefer gets one knife and stabs the knife hog what are you going to do? He has all the weapons. If they are spread out you have a much higher chance to kill the griefer
But the griefer can't pick up anything, so all they've done is provided a cache of weapons right next to the act for any/all who wish to make some sort of personal.... statement about it.
Though as lionon's story illustrates, that's not the case when there are multiple griefers.
I'm not surprised that it can work in the short term. Essentially it's a sheriff and deputy type thing. The issue for me is: how stable is it over generations? We can easily suggest answers but we have personal bias. But it would take some work to try to get objective data.
Whatever the case, both sides of the debate have the same goal, and actually are aiming toward a similar situation: knives and important crafting locations/tasks being under the control of the most competent and team-spirited players.
In truth, I suspect there are ideal situations for both strategies. And in practice, I imagine those who have defended villages have used both strategies at different times. Sometimes you gotta play keep away, sometimes you gotta pass out the defenses and put people on alert. Maybe? That doesn't mean that one strategy isn't a better choice for the default, though, because there isn't always someone present who can do the mental juggling required to make the best choice.
The real problem is how to determine whether someone should have a knife, right? (And determining whether a killing was justified before further killing.) After that it's just a matter of: should they have the knife? If not, don't give it to them or ask them to drop it. so regardless of how knives are distributed, knowing who's trustworthy is tops.
I suppose the main time when knife "ownership" is important is when there are only one or two, especially if short on iron. I imagine in that case you would want your most worthy villager holding the knife and doing the knife jobs if possible, since the village is still small.

The problem with getting objective data is that not all villages have knives, or backpacks, or even greifers for the hour you are playing. This forces alot of rebirths to find or make a backpack, get all the knives if any, and go about the usually whilst waiting for a greifer. Ive had about 5 plus instances withing the past couple of days where a greifer will find a knife left at one of its intended places, and stab someone in under 5 seconds, most of them will starve to death but to them if they could even kill one person its more then worth it which is why i dont understand people taking that risk. When they could just have a few trusted people to have them.

As for the diffrent types of greifers there are the dumb ones, the smart ones, and the unaware ones. The unaware ones will kill or do something they think is justified, like killing someone for taking a shovel, then saying he had every right to do it. The dumb ones are new players that either dont know how to play the game yet, or they do and just wanna troll. The smart ones however know alot about the game and are pretty much impossible to prevent outright. I.e if a smart greifer wants to kill someone in the village, that guys gonna die, or at the very least get wounded. All this not even covering the other types of greifing but since this post is just about those that do ima stop right there.

ruanna · 2018-12-27 22:48:11

One small thing. IF you stab a griefer, don't run away. Just state why you stabbed them during the cool down. If I see someone stab and run out of town immediately it's like they don't want to be caught, don't want you to see their name. If you stab and run away, I'm likely to curse you. I will run up and ask why before I curse, and if you don't respond, I curse.

Secondly, I don't think murder is a good punishment. You want to send them to donkey town ideally. If you murder they just go to another town and carry on stupid stuff. If town has enough people, raise awareness, get everyone to curse.

Last edited by ruanna (2018-12-27 22:50:37)

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Anti-Greifing (For Killers)

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