Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

hmrka · 2019-01-12 18:57:33

Soo I spent two lives guarding the apocalypse, in one life I got stabbed by some guy but it was an accident, In another I made one endstone and had a very lovely son who even found the key to the locked room - but my idiot aunt touched it and had to destroy...

Then some dumb dude started chasing me yelling "SHE WANTS APOCALYPSE OMG EVIL WOMAN KILL HER" ??? as I got mad at my aunt, i didn't notice he was running towards me with a knife and I got stabbed, died cus no needle was near.

Anyway the apocalypse is good and I don't see why people are so against making it? It sounds fun and If every town dies anyway why not just let us make the apocalypse? Also If you were here I was Bea/Haadi.

Tarr · 2019-01-12 19:01:09

Rip. I was the one trying to heal you. I thought the person inside the door way was pro apocalypse so I let them come into the room with me since I was too small and they ripped the tier block down. Regardless whether you're pro-apocalypse or against it having the ability to just rip pieces off is incredibly dumb.

I had to collect those endstones in the first place, then lock the door, and the only reason we would have been able to put a tier piece down was because the city was revitalized at a later point. I killed the woman who ripped the tier piece down along with your killer. I'm going to have to go find where they carted one of the end blocks of to but I'm sure it won't be that hard.

lionon · 2019-01-12 19:01:45

People have every right to stop you from making the apocalypse.

I don't see what the connection is to "griefing". You think anyone that stops you from doing something is it, because they think you are "griefing"?

Greep · 2019-01-12 19:02:44

Griefing is practically a non-word at this point in the community. That or Griefing = "Not doing what I want you to do"

lionon · 2019-01-12 19:06:47

PS the apocalypse is not "good"... it's mostly unnecessary. Nocturnal infertility is the biggest civ killer and the one week cell reset will then remove old towns anyway...

hmrka · 2019-01-12 19:24:46

Sorry just got called a griefer few times for making it lol, but yeah I agree ppl have their own opinions about It and its a lot more fun that way.

Fae · 2019-01-12 19:26:49

I mean, the apocalypse will reset an entire server, and some folks do not want that work to be destroyed. So it is fair to assume they don't want you to trigger it. It isn't griefing to trigger the apocalypse or to dismantle it. The reason he made it so easy to take down is because of how poorly the first apocalypse went back in the day.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-01-12 19:51:42

There are many reasons why I don't like the apocalypse. One is that it provides a justification for killing people. While I know that you and Tarr are using volunteers and healing people, the general public doesn't. The average player is not active on the forums, and will assume that people building endblocks are killing other people randomly to create the apocalypse. And killing other people without their consent, when they aren't actively harming you or others, is what I consider greifing. It's the thing that I save curse tokens for.

The one time someone tried to recruit me into building the apocalypse I said NO. Quickly and emphatically. I explained that as long as San-Cal stands I will do everything I can to stop the apocalypse from happening on server 2. They stopped talking about the apocalypse.

On the flip side, I respect what Tarr is doing, in testing our ability to create an apocalyspe on a major server. So I don't plan to play on server 1 until your experiment is complete.

The apocalypse absolutely has a point. I love finding old towns and revitalizing them. Once an apocalypse happens, there will be no old towns to rebuild. Eventually we will build back up to them... but... isn't this game hard enough as it is?

And lionon, Are we sure the one week cell reset is working? Or is actually set for one week? San-Cal has lasted months. It's currently at the heart of the eve spiral one week, and the end of the eve spiral the next week, back and forth. I was pretty stunned by how good it looked when folks re-discovered it a week and a half ago. (Twisted's video from last week is set there, BTW.) But it goes nearly a week and a half without players - unless someone like pein or Tarr is riding out there in a horse cart on its slow days?? Anyway, I don't think the cell reset is working the way people expect for whatever reason.

hmrka · 2019-01-12 19:56:32

Tarr wrote:

Rip. I was the one trying to heal you. I thought the person inside the door way was pro apocalypse so I let them come into the room with me since I was too small and they ripped the tier block down. Regardless whether you're pro-apocalypse or against it having the ability to just rip pieces off is incredibly dumb.

Aww were you my son, the one who found key? Had a feeling it was you! Sad I died from stabbing, we could twin later

And the bunker in front of apocalypse house was made by me, sorry It looks so messy. I don't think I got the doors right even tho you explained it to me.

Tarr · 2019-01-12 20:02:52

hmrka wrote:

Tarr wrote:
Rip. I was the one trying to heal you. I thought the person inside the door way was pro apocalypse so I let them come into the room with me since I was too small and they ripped the tier block down. Regardless whether you're pro-apocalypse or against it having the ability to just rip pieces off is incredibly dumb.
Aww were you my son, the one who found key? Had a feeling it was you! Sad I died from stabbing, we could twin later
And the bunker in front of apocalypse house was made by me, sorry It looks so messy. I don't think I got the doors right even tho you explained it to me.

Nah you made the bunker door correctly. That's exactly how a one way door is made to stop people from opening it from the outside. If it makes you feel better I landed in one of the other apocalypse bunker towns and set a tier two down.

lionon · 2019-01-12 20:18:52

BlueDiamondAvatar wrote:

And lionon, Are we sure the one week cell reset is working? Or is actually set for one week? San-Cal has lasted months.

When the cell is not seen by a player for one week, it's contents are reset (all buildings and stuff).. When a traveler passes by, the week times is reset.

There may be very busy places... that keep alive like for a long time (also due to eve town revival which has only shortly been disabled), but I'm pretty sure there is also lots and lots of ex-town that were wiped by this forever.

lionon · 2019-01-12 20:21:43

PS about apocalypse houses... you don't need to break in to stop the apocalypse. Just block the one door with three bell tower bases and it's off-limits, forever (assuming the walls are ancient).

At most maybe when only half of the house gets reset by the 1 week non-view decay. But unlikely.

MultiLife · 2019-01-12 20:28:16

Are you guys planning to do it once on busy servers just to have it happen or is this something you'll be doing even after a success?

Tarr · 2019-01-12 20:35:34

MultiLife wrote:

Are you guys planning to do it once on busy servers just to have it happen or is this something you'll be doing even after a success?

I personally have zero interest than doing it more than once. It's more of a seeing if this is even possible and the only reason I was even ever to make a tier two was because a city we thought was lost popped back up due to the Eve spiral.

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-12 21:10:36

BlueDiamondAvatar wrote:

And lionon, Are we sure the one week cell reset is working?

The plot thickens.

I've dug around in the forum and github a bit. The cell reset is known as "map culling" and I believe the purpose for it is not to make all of our beloved stuff go away, but rather to keep the server object database from growing without bounds.

Here's how it works: when a server is restarted (which happens at least once a week during the weekly updates), everything that hasn't been seen in the previous 24 hours is culled, i.e. the tile is restored to its original state. This only happens when the server is restarted, so stuff won't disappear in the middle of the week.

BUT.

The implementation of this had some bugs, and in May as a workaround for at least one of those bugs, Jason changed the value of mapCellForgottenSeconds.ini from 24 hours (86400 seconds) to 7 days (604800). And it's been that value ever since. See the github history. That's why San-Cal is still with us, and will be as long as someone visits it at least once during each week. And that is still happening, we presume, because the Eve spiral keeps getting recentered on or near it, although I'd love to see some better data about that.

Note that map culling is still happening, but there's a week lag. So all the Eve camps that died two weeks ago and were never seen again are now gone. And for that matter, it's possible for parts of a huge town like San-Cal to get reset if nobody happened to see them during the week. For example, if a car got lost in the wilderness it's probably gone for good no matter how hard you search. Outposts that got created and then abandoned may be gone for good if nobody went to check on them.

But what's really interesting is that all the depleted natural resources will have been restored! BUT ONLY IF nobody tried to find them in the past week! So the ground iron and the iron veins are all there again waiting to be harvested, unless you went looking for them too soon, in which case they're still all used up.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-01-12 21:46:02

CrazyEddie wrote:

BlueDiamondAvatar wrote:
And lionon, Are we sure the one week cell reset is working?
The plot thickens.
I've dug around in the forum and github a bit. The cell reset is known as "map culling" and I believe the purpose for it is not to make all of our beloved stuff go away, but rather to keep the server object database from growing without bounds.

Thanks for the info, CE! That explains it, the "last seven days" is only calculated when the server is reset. So even though there are about ten days that San-Cal is missing every two weeks, those days are always broken up by the server reset, so walla, it lasts forever. (Or until Jason has either a really short time between updates on a week that doesn't start in San-Cal, or a really long time between updates on a week that did start in San-Cal)

I guess I'm used to seeing things on decay timers (like for baskets, carts, etc.), so I assumed the full cell ceset would work the same way, rather than only being run with server resets.

lionon · 2019-01-13 07:52:33

BlueDiamondAvatar wrote:

CE! That explains it, the "last seven days" is only calculated when the server is reset. So even though there are about ten days that San-Cal is missing every two weeks, those days are always broken up by the server reset

This isn't the true conclusion, if it were like this, mapCellReseting won't work at all, and I can confirm you it does. Most likely San-Cal just gets viewed every now and then, by it's prominent position in the eve-spiral... which seems not to be moving much in reality.

The server uses the wallclock time to remember the last time a cell was seen, and on startup resets any cells that weren't seen for 7 days.

So this means effectively, the time is larger than 7 days. It's 7 days + next Friday/Saturday reset. But if it isn't seen by then, it is gone.

Last edited by lionon (2019-01-13 07:57:27)

elemental_slim · 2019-01-20 08:19:52

. . . server 7 needs willing sacrifices. . .

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-01-12 18:57:33

Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#2 2019-01-12 19:01:09

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#3 2019-01-12 19:01:45

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#4 2019-01-12 19:02:44

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#5 2019-01-12 19:06:47

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#6 2019-01-12 19:24:46

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#7 2019-01-12 19:26:49

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#8 2019-01-12 19:51:42

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#9 2019-01-12 19:56:32

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#10 2019-01-12 20:02:52

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#11 2019-01-12 20:18:52

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#12 2019-01-12 20:21:43

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#13 2019-01-12 20:28:16

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#14 2019-01-12 20:35:34

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#15 2019-01-12 21:10:36

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#16 2019-01-12 21:46:02

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#17 2019-01-13 07:52:33

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

#18 2019-01-20 08:19:52

Re: Why do people think making the apocalypse is griefing?

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