New Players Bad for Villages?

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-16 22:55:29

This post is sort of a social experiment just to see what people think about what im gonna say.

In short, if you have a kid, and that kid says they are new, dont feed them.

Reasons to not take care of a noob:

1. They know how to do either nothing or the bare minimum to keep themselves alive

2. They constantly waste food

3. They will kill players who kill greifers

4. They are more likely to grief

5. They need to be taught which takes time from the people that know how to do important things

6. They can doom your lineage if they are the only girl

7. They forget to feed their babies

8. They very rarely do enough to outweigh what they dont do

9. They are extremely accident prone meaning

10. They could be taken care of for 3 minutes as step on a rattle snake right after wasting the mothers time and food

In general new players are useless, and a strain on resources, not being mean those are just the facts, if you got any reasons as to keep a new player in your village other then greifer fodder im all ears.

Gederian · 2019-01-16 23:00:32

Teach them how to do something basic like fill bowls with berries and add a carrot?

If they can't follow instructions than show them the special "tree" where you keep the "tool" just outside town.

Tarr · 2019-01-16 23:13:27

Don't get me wrong I've met plenty of shitty new players who were rude dudes and what not but towns really are the only easy place for them to learn anything. Eve life is absolutely not a place where you want new players as every second matters in trying to get your camp as far as possible within your live(s). There's no time to teach these players in between smithing/foraging/gathering if you're the Eve so now you have to let children teach other children which is hard due to character limit.

At least in a city/village there is normally someone nursing who has the time to teach these kids the bare basics of farming and if they're lucky composting too. Baking also comes to mind when it comes to easy to teach skills but that's really about the only quick skills to teach the new guys. Smithing obviously is too time sensitive so at best they have to watch, buildings aren't worth a damn, road making is good but most people just sort of make endless roads, and other farming is great but normally neglected in favor of berries.

All you do by dumping players who admit to being new is teach them to lie about it, it's how we end up with these "pro" toddlers who die within two seconds of leaving mothers hip. You just have to grit your teeth and hope that eventually they learn something in their life that they take with them to the next one.

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-16 23:28:27

Crumpaloo wrote:

In short, if you have a kid, and that kid says they are new, dont feed them.

That works exactly once.

Matbat · 2019-01-16 23:31:30

Key word: Learning

Because you (say, any people who knows what they're doing) can't be everywhere and doing everything at once.
You could be male and hunting iron but the last girl gets bit by mosquitos and the other people left at home
are all berry tending level noobs, if you had a choice in their lives and decided they were better off dead the line would die.
everyone slowly learns, and really if you can afford it its good to keep all of them. in population explosions
from constantly keeping kids the likelihood of good players spawning and surviving the famine afterwards.
if we always killed our new children they'd just spawn back to us, to someone who will keep then, or weigh
down a civ that might not be able to handle their weight.

1. They have to learn, the more plentiful the environment the better. (like everything-done bell towns)
2. if wasting food is eating multiple berries as an adult, sure I can get behind that. its common but hopefully they'll learn bigger foods are better in town scenarios.
3. If they know how to kill I'd say they aren't a that much of a noob, just lacking context and correct judgement.
4. They might cause you grief just by being a noob but if they are actually griefing you need to explain it to them, and if they continue you kill them.
5. If you can afford to, you can leave them to learn for themselves. but if they are actively draining resources that keep the civ alive
taking 5 minutes to teach how to help them might benefit someone else 10 minutes longer to live some where down the line.
6. Yep, can't really refute this point. most times this is just unfortunate.
7. if they are forgetting to feed their babies as they cry "f" while they're standing near them.. well thats just a bad mother. But some of us are too busy
and have no time to raise babies so we just leave them in the middle of the berry field.
8. see #5
9. Only time I've seen this is when people don't realize weapons can't be dropped on another person's tile. They learn quick, even if it costs them that life.
10. could be many reasons behind this: loading in, not seeing the snake/animal, not staying away from a bloodbath, and similar. but after 2.5 min the baby cooldown is naturally up so at least if the mother raised her baby efficiently its not much of a drag.

Some times people who claim "new" aren't as bad as you might think. I've seen one of my "new" children slowly smithing away while I did other eve-camp stuff once. If I feel like I have time I'll ask my kids "New pro or vet?" and instruct them accordingly. almost noone these days doesn't know how to farm, so that's at least a plus.

a final plus is that new players can be good roleplay people. people want to make stories so new players can provide good springboards rather than the vets, the cold unfeeling shoulders and the strained back that the civ often ride on that work all the lifeblood so people can have their stories.

Last edited by Matbat (2019-01-16 23:33:56)

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-16 23:42:58

While i do admit asking the new players if they are new is probably a bad a idea if they end up dying its not that hard to find out other ways, you can tell someone is new just by looking at what they are doing for about 30 seconds. In the time it takes a noob to do something useful you could have already had a better kid and done something twice as useful.

Also Matbat, ironically enough i died to a roleplayer BECAUSE i was teaching a new player, i made a whole post about it and it got alot of attention, now i know its not a common senario but the fact it happen has really left a scar on my feelings towards new players as a whole.

Potjeh · 2019-01-17 00:11:40

Yesterday I had a baby boy who said he was new. I showed him how to tend berries, he did a couple and then starved. I had another baby boy, and he said he's the same guy. I continued to teach wheat and carrots, and he did some of those but then starved. Then I had a girl who was the same player, only this time she didn't starve. Instead I managed to teach the entire compost cycle, and when I respawned in that town two generations later there was a huge wheat farm and plenty of carrots so I could easily spam compost for milkweed and I made like eight buckets.

Cecil · 2019-01-17 00:14:28

A village is the least stressful setting for tutoring new players though. There's less downtime and higher stakes in early gen camps.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 00:45:28

Potjeh wrote:

Yesterday I had a baby boy who said he was new. I showed him how to tend berries, he did a couple and then starved. I had another baby boy, and he said he's the same guy. I continued to teach wheat and carrots, and he did some of those but then starved. Then I had a girl who was the same player, only this time she didn't starve. Instead I managed to teach the entire compost cycle, and when I respawned in that town two generations later there was a huge wheat farm and plenty of carrots so I could easily spam compost for milkweed and I made like eight buckets.

Im not sure if you can prove it was him who did it but even so a player that already knew how to do that could of just made wheat and carrots while you were teaching that new player, probably could of had a farm of that size established as he was just starting to grow his first plants. I think what im trying to get at is that time is precious so wasting it just to teach a new player how to do something that 10 potential babies already know how just seems counter intuitive to the game itself.

Potjeh · 2019-01-17 00:47:59

It's a pretty good chance it was the same player. But it's not about that village. It's about every village. The more people out there that know how to compost, the less expert players have to spend their time on compost instead of diesel wells.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 01:09:51

Potjeh wrote:

It's a pretty good chance it was the same player. But it's not about that village. It's about every village. The more people out there that know how to compost, the less expert players have to spend their time on compost instead of diesel wells.

If its just a matter of more people knowing how to compost then i got a way for parents not to have to teach their children how to make it: https://onetech.info/624-Composted-Soil

Too many new players try to rely on asking people to teach them when they could just teach themselves. Why should anyone be inconvenienced by someone who doesn't want to seek out pre-existing knowledge that can be found with a few clicks and a search away? When i hear someone say "im new" i dont think of it as someone whos gonna benifit my village, i see it as a chore thats gonna cost me time and resources. I dont hate new players, i just see the fruitlessness of them being in my village.

apereason · 2019-01-17 01:10:16

alright i'm going to try this strategy with one run, if a kid says they are new or don't answer, I will kill them.
if they say they are kind of new, I will kill them. I am being extra harsh

Update: I had a brother that was a noob, he was going to die of hunger and I didn't save him.
I had one boy that was a noob and I killed him.
Later one of my not noob sons got bit by a boar along with the two males of the village. Two of us immediately made making a bow a priority and we got it in two minutes. My sister apparently wasn't in on this plan and right as I made a bow and arrow, she ran after me saying "YOU TOOK MY STUFF!!!!" She ran after me when I was hunting a boar and distracted me. I miss-clicked and ran straight into the boar, killing myself instead of it. As I was dying at age 27, my sister angrily took the bow meant for killing the boars back to camp, possibly dooming the village. About half of the future kids will probably run straight into boars on accident.

Anyway in this case, killing the noobs might have worked out well but I was lucky and so many of my kids said they weren't new. most of the time 9/10 kids say they are new.

R.I.P. Nicha 2019-2019 Last words: You took my stuf
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=2912062

Last edited by apereason (2019-01-17 01:53:40)

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 01:21:53

Matbat wrote:

Key word: Learning

Key word: Onetech https://onetech.info

In-game is probably the worst way to learn things:

1. You have a limited character limit so explaining takes longer then usual

2. Having a kid whilst trying to explain how to do something to another makes teaching even longer

3. Teaching a kid something you could of already done in the time explaining it to him is inefficent

4. whilst teaching both you and the person you are teaching are going to be doing nothing but eating food and talking

5. Lots of things can interrupt someone from being taught, i.e getting stabbed, people taking the tools your using to teach, people using the oven and forge you are trying to teach with, needing to eat, getting attacked by a animal whilst explaining something.

By just using one tech you circumvent all this you save both you and your mother alotta time. I agree that noobs should be taught, just out of the game.

dangergirl713 · 2019-01-17 01:27:42

Everyone has been a new player at one point. There are bad new players as well as good new players that learn and contribute just as there are bad pro players that grief and good pro players.

Doesn't help the game if we drive off all the new players since the average amount of people playing hovers around 100-250 at the most.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 01:35:14

apereason wrote:

alright i'm going to try this strategy with one run, if a kid says they are new or don't answer, I will kill them.
if they say they are kind of new, I will kill them. I am being extra harsh

Its ironic because you would actually be saving the resources it would take to both feed him AND you for one hour, him because you would be killing him, and you because you are almost certainly going to die shortly afterwards.

Cecil · 2019-01-17 01:52:06

Good in short term of the hours the civ lives and the effective man-hours spent working on it.

Bad in long term of the extra days it'll take to make that player productive as opposed to just spending one hour teaching them a job.

In a bizarre twist, this philosophy reflects the US prison system versus the Nordic prison system. One is to punish and lock away, the other is to educate and integrate.

Last edited by Cecil (2019-01-17 01:52:37)

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-17 03:31:30

Crumpaloo wrote:

If its just a matter of more people knowing how to compost then i got a way for parents not to have to teach their children how to make it: https://onetech.info/624-Composted-Soil

Fuck that.

Half the fun - for me - is learning things IN the game, not studying a spreadsheet. People like me may be in the minority, but you don't get to tell me how to enjoy myself.

You don't want to teach me? Fine. Go play how you like. But plenty of people love the hell out of teaching (and learning!), and find it the very best part of the game.

I taught someone compost the other day, and as far as gaming experiences go, I'd trade it for all of the "successful" villages you played in that same day.

DestinyCall · 2019-01-17 04:12:34

New players are not bad for the village. They are a valuable, finite resource and should be treated like one. If any game teaches the truth of the saying "the children are our future", it is OHOL. No matter how experienced and industrious your adult villagers are ... if you run out of children, the village will die. The same thing is true for online communities and multiplayer games like OHOL. Fresh new players keep the game alive and bring in new ideas, new community members, new contributers.

People are only "noobs" for a relatively short time. If they are interested in the game and if they continue to play and learn more about it, they will not be inexperienced for very long at all. You can help speed up the process by paying attention to other people and offering help, when someone is clearly struggling or when they ask for assistance. You don't have to drop everything you are doing and you do not need to spend an entire hour tutoring a single noob. Just take a little time out of your busy schedule to help another player learn how to be a better villager. It might not pay off in this lifetime, but this is a game of death, rebirth and passing things on to future generations. Good karma comes back around when the players that you mentored in a previous lifetime come back around to keep the compost cycle going, waste less food, and live longer without being a burden on the village.

Not to mention that it can be genuinely enjoyable to pass along hard won knowledge or help teach someone a new trade. It is not always about hard work and efficiency. This is a game and it should be enjoyed and enjoyable. Have some fun and teach your new children how to make bean burritos.

Life is too short to waste time drowning your noob babies. Save your energy for dealing with griefers and assholes.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-01-17 04:13:27)

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 04:39:58

CrazyEddie wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
If its just a matter of more people knowing how to compost then i got a way for parents not to have to teach their children how to make it: https://onetech.info/624-Composted-Soil
Fuck that.
Half the fun - for me - is learning things IN the game, not studying a spreadsheet. People like me may be in the minority, but you don't get to tell me how to enjoy myself.
You don't want to teach me? Fine. Go play how you like. But plenty of people love the hell out of teaching (and learning!), and find it the very best part of the game.
I taught someone compost the other day, and as far as gaming experiences go, I'd trade it for all of the "successful" villages you played in that same day.

Noobs are useless, and no amount of enjoyment is gonna bring back the time and food you spent trying to teach them how to make compost. They will doom your lineages, they will eat all your gooseberries, and kill whoever has a bloody knife, explanation or not. In the end, they will do it all over again because thats just how they do, its not they're fault, its just the way of the noob.

Ironically if you kill anyone that you think is a noob, that will actually force noobs to, get this, LEARN ENOUGH TO NOT BE A NOOB, no better motivator then death itself.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 04:49:22

DestinyCall wrote:

New players are not bad for the village. They are a valuable, finite resource and should be treated like one. If any game teaches the truth of the saying "the children are our future", it is OHOL. No matter how experienced and industrious your adult villagers are ... if you run out of children, the village will die. The same thing is true for online communities and multiplayer games like OHOL. Fresh new players keep the game alive and bring in new ideas, new community members, new contributers.
People are only "noobs" for a relatively short time. If they are interested in the game and if they continue to play and learn more about it, they will not be inexperienced for very long at all. You can help speed up the process by paying attention to other people and offering help, when someone is clearly struggling or when they ask for assistance. You don't have to drop everything you are doing and you do not need to spend an entire hour tutoring a single noob. Just take a little time out of your busy schedule to help another player learn how to be a better villager. It might not pay off in this lifetime, but this is a game of death, rebirth and passing things on to future generations. Good karma comes back around when the players that you mentored in a previous lifetime come back around to keep the compost cycle going, waste less food, and live longer without being a burden on the village.
Not to mention that it can be genuinely enjoyable to pass along hard won knowledge or help teach someone a new trade. It is not always about hard work and efficiency. This is a game and it should be enjoyed and enjoyable. Have some fun and teach your new children how to make bean burritos.
Life is too short to waste time drowning your noob babies. Save your energy for dealing with griefers and assholes.

I dont doubt that noobs are essential for growth in playerbase, im just arguing that if it comes down to it, im gonna let another village deal with them instead of mine, there are simple too many negatives to outweigh the positive of some very long term positive that i may never even see. Whiles the short term positive would be enjoyment? If its gonna come down to the enjoyment of seeing my lineage live another generation, and teaching a noob how to make pies, im gonna enjoy the more immediate positive of knowing my lineage is safe from being doomed by girl noobs who either dont know how to take care of their kids, or step on a rattle snake half way out of the womb.

Greep · 2019-01-17 05:05:35

Yeah, you don't ask them if they're new, you temp test them. But yeah, really it's only worth temp testing in gen 1-3. If you've got an iron mine, who cares if you get a noob. Griefers are your bigger concern then, and nothing creates a murder spiral easier than not feeding a kid and someone else feeding them.

Last edited by Greep (2019-01-17 05:10:04)

DestinyCall · 2019-01-17 05:28:00

It sounds to me like you seriously underestimate the value of communication, Crumpaloo. Teaching is a powerful tool for village survival. That noob girl that you leave to die "for the good of the village" could be taught how to be a better villager with a little kindness and attention from a more experienced player. Most noob mistakes happen out of ignorance, rather than malice, so letting someone know that they should use two bowls of dirt instead of just one or a whole basket, can change how someone plays the game forever. I've lived many lives where I taught my children how to compost or bake pies or make buckets, or hunt snakes. I was doing it anyways and I was popping out babies, so why not teach them how it was done?

I'm not expecting you to go out and become a great teacher. If you do not enjoy it and do not care enough to do it right, you'll probably just mess it up. But you are wrong if you think it doesn't make a difference.

MultiLife · 2019-01-17 05:35:41

Crumpaloo wrote:

1. They know how to do either nothing or the bare minimum to keep themselves alive
2. They constantly waste food
3. They will kill players who kill greifers
4. They are more likely to grief

You're talking about a very specific 'type of noob' which is a rarity thanks to hardworking teachers.

Crumpaloo wrote:

5. They need to be taught which takes time from the people that know how to do important things

Teaching is the most important thing in this game. You won't learn double soil or yellow fever survival from onetech will you? How about yum? How would they ever even think of googling the right things without some interaction from other players?

Crumpaloo wrote:

6. They can doom your lineage if they are the only girl

And that can happen very often so better teach everyone something to boost their skills.

Crumpaloo wrote:

7. They forget to feed their babies

What I've seen, they mostly overfeed them and hold onto them more than forget.

Crumpaloo wrote:

10. They could be taken care of for 3 minutes as step on a rattle snake right after wasting the mothers time and food

Not many lives ago I did that. Someone who has done everything survival related in the game. Snake in swamp.

Crumpaloo wrote:

In general new players are useless, and a strain on resources, not being mean those are just the facts, if you got any reasons as to keep a new player in your village other then greifer fodder im all ears.

They are useless until people start dropping tips and tricks and explaining inconsistencies. There are many types of learners and some are "hands-on" learners, so they memorize everything effeciently by mimicking.

Anyways, I've carried enough towns to realize that's less important than equipping others with the latest information. Lots of old info with berry and carrot picking are stuck in veteran heads. Best newbies are communicating and eager to learn.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 06:13:19

Greep wrote:

Yeah, you don't ask them if they're new, you temp test them. But yeah, really it's only worth temp testing in gen 1-3. If you've got an iron mine, who cares if you get a noob. Griefers are your bigger concern then, and nothing creates a murder spiral easier than not feeding a kid and someone else feeding them.

Trust me, if i really wanted someone dead with no repercussion in this game, its not that hard to do, learned that the hard way with that retarded daughter of mine.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 06:16:50

MultiLife wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
1. They know how to do either nothing or the bare minimum to keep themselves alive
2. They constantly waste food
3. They will kill players who kill greifers
4. They are more likely to grief
You're talking about a very specific 'type of noob' which is a rarity thanks to hardworking teachers.
Crumpaloo wrote:
5. They need to be taught which takes time from the people that know how to do important things
Teaching is the most important thing in this game. You won't learn double soil or yellow fever survival from onetech will you? How about yum? How would they ever even think of googling the right things without some interaction from other players?
Crumpaloo wrote:
6. They can doom your lineage if they are the only girl
And that can happen very often so better teach everyone something to boost their skills.
Crumpaloo wrote:
7. They forget to feed their babies
What I've seen, they mostly overfeed them and hold onto them more than forget.
Crumpaloo wrote:
10. They could be taken care of for 3 minutes as step on a rattle snake right after wasting the mothers time and food
Not many lives ago I did that. Someone who has done everything survival related in the game. Snake in swamp.
Crumpaloo wrote:
In general new players are useless, and a strain on resources, not being mean those are just the facts, if you got any reasons as to keep a new player in your village other then greifer fodder im all ears.
They are useless until people start dropping tips and tricks and explaining inconsistencies. There are many types of learners and some are "hands-on" learners, so they memorize everything effeciently by mimicking.
Anyways, I've carried enough towns to realize that's less important than equipping others with the latest information. Lots of old info with berry and carrot picking are stuck in veteran heads. Best newbies are communicating and eager to learn.

For my point number seven, that kinda is what drove it home for me, it happens very often? You bet it does and im not gonna take the risk of my entire leiniage on one noob if it comes down to it, fk teaching noobs how to solo a village, this game is about building a civilization and if a noob is gonna end one in less then an hour then you bet your ass i aint gonna roll those dice.

Although i will admit not everything can be learned on one tech, you should atleast take the time to read how to do the most basic of stuff, half the people that played this game skipped the tutorial.

Last edited by Crumpaloo (2019-01-17 06:19:09)

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New Players Bad for Villages?

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Re: New Players Bad for Villages?

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