New Players Bad for Villages?

Tarr · 2019-01-17 07:17:50

Crumpaloo wrote:

For my point number seven, that kinda is what drove it home for me, it happens very often? You bet it does and im not gonna take the risk of my entire leiniage on one noob if it comes down to it, fk teaching noobs how to solo a village, this game is about building a civilization and if a noob is gonna end one in less then an hour then you bet your ass i aint gonna roll those dice.
Although i will admit not everything can be learned on one tech, you should atleast take the time to read how to do the most basic of stuff, half the people that played this game skipped the tutorial.

Honestly you shouldn't worry about new players killing towns. Jason has done everything in his power to make sure the game is in a constant state of being on the verge of failure. Most of these places are soulless anyways, I mean can you honestly say you care about a place you visit once with some random lineage? The only town of recent I MIGHT remember is Morti's town where I killed 35 or so bears. The worst part is tomorrow we're going to get the new addition to the radio and have no one to talk to because two towns can't get to those tech levels at the same time.

MultiLife · 2019-01-17 07:53:34

Yeah towns are soulless in the end. They all disappear. Even without newbies, boys will roll in and babygirls SID, die in an accident or leave to establish a new civ. Why bust your ass nose deep in work, developing stuff when two gens after you, only boys were born?
I'd rather sit down and teach newbies half my life. My work alone will feed a group of noobs anyways so I can invest in them and hope they do that to others too so we can keep sharing the updated news and tricks (such as carry pump kits to get kindling and shafts to villages) and keep being effecient.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-01-17 11:03:16)

Sasooli · 2019-01-17 10:20:58

Some people talk as if making your lineage last as long as possible is THE goal of this game. It's certainly a common goal and a fun one, but not the only one. I get much more enjoyment from feeling like I've cooperated with and taught people than from seeing lineage length after I've died. If I was regularly killing babies for bring noobs I think the game would start to leave a sour taste for me pretty quickly.

If having a long lineage IS your primary goal (which is totally fine of course, I'm not expecting everyone to enjoy the same things as me) then is killing noobs a good idea? In the short term of that one lineage, quite possibly it is. But in the longer term effects on the player base, I doubt it.

pein · 2019-01-17 11:28:16

i do the temperature test and i except kids to do what i ask to for like 5 minutes
even if its alleria, get me damn eggs you weirdo

after 6 kids i don't have the morale to tell them stay there don't move, ask for feed at 2, etc.

everyone should know how many can support, if you eating berries yourself, 1 kid is well enough for you
maybe yum should be more unforgiving, no kids below 5 yum

i can support like 6-8 people but why would i?
i just seen a video where i was busy doing something and i don't realize twisted is planting potato for a half life
but generally just they fuck up the farm setup or waste kindling on forging one steel at a time
i need to choose what i do and the other stuff is ruined
sometimes i pull off a shinra tensei, all noobs die then i can teach my kids what to do before next population boom

you can ask guys to teach a kid, they got time and they might like some human interaction
you can teach like 2 kids a life if you got a nurse

teaching wont work:
-some players don't want to contribute
-some players got bad intentions
-some players talk shit when you try to help
-some people think they know everything

i met a guy who had 90 hours on steam and was demanding an apron cause she was so skilled
i stab her twice to prove a pointa

lot of them wont even understand why they would need to do stuff until the berry farm is dead

i snowball some noobs, cause even that is faster than to explain why their life goal of bringing back bones and digging on to the middle of city is bad, or why we don't need a fricking fast road in between the kilns or why you don't use dough on the forge rocks

emaciatedraccoon · 2019-01-17 12:03:00

Jeez some people in this community are so intolerant, definitely not the kind of people I would expect to play _this_ game in particular

Isn't this game about, like, not being a selfish prick? Yikes

The_Anabaptist · 2019-01-17 12:22:08

Tell you what: I'll take any new player no matter how green over a player who is too busy role playing royalty that won't get their hands dirty doing lowborn work when the town is at risk of starving. I can teach a new player the basic jobs of a village, I can only knife the waste of space that is too good to work.

Quit trying to optimize the first generation so much. Your Eve village isn't a failure if it doesn't have iron tools and a sheep pen before you die. You fail by failing to build a community.

The_Anabaptist

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 12:43:24

Sasooli wrote:

Some people talk as if making your lineage last as long as possible is THE goal of this game. It's certainly a common goal and a fun one, but not the only one. I get much more enjoyment from feeling like I've cooperated with and taught people than from seeing lineage length after I've died. If I was regularly killing babies for bring noobs I think the game would start to leave a sour taste for me pretty quickly.
If having a long lineage IS your primary goal (which is totally fine of course, I'm not expecting everyone to enjoy the same things as me) then is killing noobs a good idea? In the short term of that one lineage, quite possibly it is. But in the longer term effects on the player base, I doubt it.

That was my point in a earlier comment, that me being nice and teaching a few new players is some how suppose to increase the playerbase single-handedly? But to also say that me NOT doing it is somehow going to put the rate of new players in the negative? If theres any chance that just i could affect the player base on such a wide scale that would take forever, and i and other people might not even be playing the game that long.

pein · 2019-01-17 12:43:40

selfish pricks: feeds 5 kids in middle of berry farm and complains that somebody tells her not to raise every baby

when you don't go out of town 50 tiles and you never make compost, and you never get firewood, your life has no value to others, you can cry about equality and sharing, but you are just a leach to the society

stop acting like a victim when you enforce others to fix your mistakes
the wasteful players are exactly the same amount, as the suiciders
the people who never made a successful eve run, who quit on you cause you don't have a berry farm, the ones who water carrots but never pick it
the ones who don't know what to do but never ask
call what it is: you try to make slaves out of veteran players

if you are new, you are better off with a small family which has the time to teach you
everyone learned the game the same way
im ok with teaching 1-2 people each game, and sometimes pays off, but there is the rest of people who begging for clothing, grow up and catch horses and do bullshit like fast roads and extending berry farms endlessly, regardless of the actual needs of the town
i seen enthusiast newbees , and i seen asshole new players, and its like 50% of people who think they are too good to produce food or help out on actual needs, and those are the ones who cry that they are not clothed, fed all their life for doing nothing
you can see the baby who walks around expecting her mother to follow her and bumps against clothing and weapons all the time

Last edited by pein (2019-01-17 12:45:08)

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 13:09:15

The_Anabaptist wrote:

Tell you what: I'll take any new player no matter how green over a player who is too busy role playing royalty that won't get their hands dirty doing lowborn work when the town is at risk of starving. I can teach a new player the basic jobs of a village, I can only knife the waste of space that is too good to work.
Quit trying to optimize the first generation so much. Your Eve village isn't a failure if it doesn't have iron tools and a sheep pen before you die. You fail by failing to build a community.
The_Anabaptist

Community? LOL, towns and villages dont rely on a community, they rely on players that do what they're suppose to to keep the village going, how are you suppose to have a community in the first place if theres no one to sustain it? Enjoy your RP while people are doing the compost cycle and making sure the berry farm doesn't dry up.

hmrka · 2019-01-17 13:55:11

If my mothers would all refuse to feed me when I told them im new, the only thing that this would teach me is - I should lie to my family about being pro then avoid them as soon as I get old enough to eat.

Also, Sure, onetech can be helpful. But living amongst other players is best for learning. I made many bad decisions and mistakes but I don't regret them, without them I would still be a noob, even If I knew how to make a car and do every other job right, I wouldn't learn how to protect my town from griefers, and figure out If someone is a threat to my fam.

Teaching noobs in my opinion can be a job too, especially a good one for moms since a baby is more likely to listen to his mum than his great great uncle who keeps yelling at you to get out of smithy area.
Like others here said, most towns die in less than one day now, so why not spend some time teaching a noob? A village is more likely to die from lack of girls, than a few newbies eating berries and stabbing some random dude, then starving because they didnt know theres a murder cooldown.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 14:54:02

hmrka wrote:

If my mothers would all refuse to feed me when I told them im new, the only thing that this would teach me is - I should lie to my family about being pro then avoid them as soon as I get old enough to eat.
Also, Sure, onetech can be helpful. But living amongst other players is best for learning. I made many bad decisions and mistakes but I don't regret them, without them I would still be a noob, even If I knew how to make a car and do every other job right, I wouldn't learn how to protect my town from griefers, and figure out If someone is a threat to my fam.
Teaching noobs in my opinion can be a job too, especially a good one for moms since a baby is more likely to listen to his mum than his great great uncle who keeps yelling at you to get out of smithy area.
Like others here said, most towns die in less than one day now, so why not spend some time teaching a noob? A village is more likely to die from lack of girls, than a few newbies eating berries and stabbing some random dude, then starving because they didnt know theres a murder cooldown.

Ironically villages that die off do have girls, its just that since they are noobs they dont live long enough to have babies of their own. Also if that random person getting stabbed is a fertile female, and there are only two left in your village, congrats you have now just halved you villages chance for survival, and to top that off, you now gotta kill the noob who did it decreasing your work force by 2.

As if it weren't bad enough berry munchers slow down the compost cycle, and as a result that means less mutton, which means less mutton pies, which means less food for your village overall. If a few noobs that are adults are munching on your berries 24/7 you can expect to be living in the bush real soon because lord knows they arent gonna restart the compost cycle.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 15:21:17

emaciatedraccoon wrote:

Jeez some people in this community are so intolerant, definitely not the kind of people I would expect to play _this_ game in particular
Isn't this game about, like, not being a selfish prick? Yikes

What are you trying to throw shade at me for? Never attacked any noob personally just said that overall noobs do alot more good then bad for their villages and theres alot of proof to show for it. You personally attacking me as a individual doesn't make my point any less true, and if your only point to commenting this is just to call me a prick then i really cant see us engaging in any progressive argument.

Sasooli · 2019-01-17 15:49:29

Crumpaloo wrote:

That was my point in a earlier comment, that me being nice and teaching a few new players is some how suppose to increase the playerbase single-handedly? But to also say that me NOT doing it is somehow going to put the rate of new players in the negative? If theres any chance that just i could affect the player base on such a wide scale that would take forever, and i and other people might not even be playing the game that long.

Well you individually doing it isn't going to make a huge difference, but if everyone who read this thread decided to start killing all their noob kids I reckon it would make a pretty significant difference to the average experience new players have.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 16:14:27

Sasooli wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
That was my point in a earlier comment, that me being nice and teaching a few new players is some how suppose to increase the playerbase single-handedly? But to also say that me NOT doing it is somehow going to put the rate of new players in the negative? If theres any chance that just i could affect the player base on such a wide scale that would take forever, and i and other people might not even be playing the game that long.
Well you individually doing it isn't going to make a huge difference, but if everyone who read this thread decided to start killing all their noob kids I reckon it would make a pretty significant difference to the average experience new players have.

That would require to believe what i said to be accurate, then replicate it and so far only one person has done that. This is mainly just a post confirming what i think i and majority of people already know, which is that noobs are just inefficient. Im not telling people to actively kill your noob babies, im just explaining why it wouldnt be such a bad thing.Besides whats the deal with a baby dying when its just gonna respawn into another village 5 seconds later? At that point the person has no investment into the village whatsoever and would have the least to lose from dying.

MultiLife · 2019-01-17 17:08:08

"Noobs are just inefficient"
No sh** Sherlock. :'D
And in order to make them as efficient as possible, we have to teach them because this game has a lot of inconsistencies and illogical things. Also some magical hidden bonus stuff; yum.

I let babies live no matter where their skills are at. Newbies eliminate themselves by A: running too far or B: relying on berries or C: bumping into the first dangerous animal.

If you wanted a newbie free lineage, it would run out of players very quickly. A small population veteran town will die out during the quiet hours like any other place. I'd feel like my time would be wasted there if I knew I could be out there saving families and showing smithing and medical stuff. If I want a pro-only life, I would go solo.
And if I ended up at a pro town which kills newbies, I'd probably slack off there.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-01-17 17:17:01)

DestinyCall · 2019-01-17 17:54:10

Crumpaloo wrote:

The_Anabaptist wrote:
Tell you what: I'll take any new player no matter how green over a player who is too busy role playing royalty that won't get their hands dirty doing lowborn work when the town is at risk of starving. I can teach a new player the basic jobs of a village, I can only knife the waste of space that is too good to work.
Quit trying to optimize the first generation so much. Your Eve village isn't a failure if it doesn't have iron tools and a sheep pen before you die. You fail by failing to build a community.
The_Anabaptist
Community? LOL, towns and villages dont rely on a community, they rely on players that do what they're suppose to to keep the village going, how are you suppose to have a community in the first place if theres no one to sustain it? Enjoy your RP while people are doing the compost cycle and making sure the berry farm doesn't dry up.

All of your posts sound like "Get of my lawn, you damn kids!"

Personally, when I'm telling people about OHOL, I will always recommend that if the concept sounds interesting, they should go in "blind" and try to learn from within the game, rather than watching Let's Plays, reading guides, or researching the tech tree on the wiki. This is such a fun and fascinating game. For me, a big part of the enjoyment (and the challenge) was working out how to survive and contribute to the village as I gained experience in the game itself. You do not "level up" in OHOL, but the first time you learn how to bake a pie or smith a shovel, it certainly feels like you just gained an experience level!

In my very first life, I starved in the middle of a berry patch at 5 years old, surrounded by people, because I didn't know how to eat yet. In my next couple of lives, I died to poor parenting before I could fend for myself, and in the life after that one, my mother was stabbed by another player for unknown reasons so we both died. After that life, I find myself back in the same village that I started in and this time, I knew that I should start feeding myself when I grew hair. I didn't know anything else, but I was eager to learn. I wandered around interacting with objects and eating berries to survive. When I was a teenager, one of my uncles asked if I was new and when I said yes, he offered to teach me how to tend the berry patch. I said yes ... and so he taught me how to add dirt and water to the bushes to keep them productive. I died of old age at sixty, after a lifetime spent keeping our berries alive. In that life, I learned a valuable skill ... but I had so much more to learn. I didn't know what to do if there was no compost or if the well went dry or how to plant more berry plants. I was dependent on other people knowing those things and I was sure there was even more questions that I didn't even know enough to ask. But I didn't want to be ignorant and a burden to my village. So every life, I tried to learn something new or teach someone who was newer than me. I struggled to stay alive and keep my babies alive. I died a lot. And I learned a lot. I use to die to starvation on a regular basis. Leaving the village was a 50/50 shot at death, by cold or animal attack. Now, I can set off from the village as soon as I am old enough to hold gooseberry and I'm confident that I'll be back later to die of old age (as long as I remember to set a home marker before I leave).

Not everyone contributes equally to the village. New players make silly mistakes, old players spend too much time on radios or stabbing people that "steal" their stuff. Sometimes experienced people get too focused on one aspect of the village and don't notice that the baker has been dead for fifty years so everyone starves while they are making a dozen compost piles. If you don't like how people are always doing something the "wrong way", the fastest way to change that would be teaching them a better way. If people agree, then the idea will spread and you will be reborn into more villages that follow the right way. And if your way doesn't catch on ... maybe you need to ask yourself, "Is it really better?"

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-01-17 17:56:53)

Ilka · 2019-01-17 18:03:09

Reasons why you should not take care of veterans:
1. They always survive often at the expense of others
2. They do not waste food but do not produce it (most of them do not do anything useful)
3. They will kill everyone who plays in a different way (probably they are the majority of griefers)
4. They are often bad mothers - they throw children to other players or let them die.
5. They are constantly working on projects that are almost impossible to finish (it is more likely that the city will die out)
6. By this they waste only resources.
7. Some are really nervous - they introduce a bad atmosphere (they yell at other players, they want to rule everyone).
This is obviously ironic.
I do not mind new players or old players.
If they are nice to others.
I am disturbed by rude players and those who try to tyrannize others(and of course those who destroy the game others).
Live and let others live.
And this is just a game, the game should be fun.

alphabetter · 2019-01-17 18:26:58

look, if you're the last fertile female, you have a daughter, and kill her for being new... there are still no other girls. and if you get no more girls that life, then you deserve it to watch the town die after killing the only girl you got. you could have spent her life teaching her things, but instead, you ended your lineage, good job.

people have to learn, and this game has a steep learning curve. you cannot go from 'just bought the game's to 'making radios and cars' without a few steps there. even watching videos and looking at one tech can only do so much sometimes. and I'm NOT saying noobs belong in Eve camps, cause they don't. Eve camps are hard and unforgiving. villages and towns on the other hand? only way you can teach a noob. there's nothing wrong with having to learn how to play the game, and elitist crap like that ruins the experience for new players, who won't play anymore, or invite others to play, and increase the player base. we don't have enough people to keep things going as is, why cut out the people we so desperately need?

Fae · 2019-01-17 18:36:11

To each their own. I feel like with that sort of mindset to just let a new player starve because they are new is awful. If everyone did that then the player would never learn. Eventually they would just stop playing because they would assume the entire player base are assholes.

Whenever I first started I didn't really know anything. Most of what I learned was from other players who taught me. On the other hand, I also studied up in the wiki for learning smithing since I didn't want to get in the way of the smith. All in all, there is really nothing wrong with having a new person. I'm rather appalled that some folks may have the thought process to just try and kill a new character. It is only a game so let them have fun too.

CrazyEddie · 2019-01-17 18:37:46

MultiLife wrote:

And if I ended up at a pro town which kills newbies, I'd probably slack off there.

I would grief it.

... and I don't grief. But I'd make an exception for a town full of assholes.

happynova · 2019-01-17 23:14:07

For crying out loud.

This is a game that needs a playerbase to be viable, which means it needs new people to come in and to stick around. And competent players are the single most important factor in successful lineages and good game play, but all players start out incompetent. It's therefore an essential task for those of us who have learned to be competent to help create new competent players who will want to keep playing.

Kill or mistreat a new player for being new, and you teach them not to admit they're new or to ask for help when they need it. You teach them that the game is unwelcoming for new people and that existing players don't want them there. You teach them that the playerbase is selfish, uncaring, and okay with stabbing innocent people. Too much of that, and you drive them away before they can get good and contribute, or you turn them into griefers, acting out of frustration or resentment or a sense that it's a game full of selfish uncaring jerks, so why not join in. And you might not just be teaching that one person that, either. I've seen quite a few streamers coming in as newbies, playing blind or nearly blind. In which case, you're also giving anyone watching them and deciding whether to give the game a shot the same impression. It's bad for the future of the game and all of us who enjoy playing it.

On the other hand, if you show a newbie some kindness, help them learn, give them things to do instead of wandering around bored and frustrated, give them evidence that even though the learning curb is steep, they can learn and contribute -- in short, if you give them a positive early experience -- it will motivate them to stay, to learn more, to feel invested in the game and the towns they spawn into. And one day they will be the competent, helpful daughter who saves your Eve camp and launches your double-digit lineage.

Your behavior towards newbies is nothing more or less than you helping to create (or, as the case may be, destroy) the players who will be your future children and townspeople. Which means itt may be the single most important thing you can do in the game.

(This post is dedicated to the daughter I had earlier today who was so new I had to teach her "F for food," but who did an amazingly helpful job bringing basket after basket of food back to me while I got my Eve camp set up. Sometimes they surprise you. And whoever that person is, I think they're going to be a real asset if they stick around and learn.)

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 23:18:31

Ilka wrote:

Reasons why you should not take care of veterans:
1. They always survive often at the expense of others
2. They do not waste food but do not produce it (most of them do not do anything useful)
3. They will kill everyone who plays in a different way (probably they are the majority of griefers)
4. They are often bad mothers - they throw children to other players or let them die.
5. They are constantly working on projects that are almost impossible to finish (it is more likely that the city will die out)
6. By this they waste only resources.
7. Some are really nervous - they introduce a bad atmosphere (they yell at other players, they want to rule everyone).
This is obviously ironic.
I do not mind new players or old players.
If they are nice to others.
I am disturbed by rude players and those who try to tyrannize others(and of course those who destroy the game others).
Live and let others live.
And this is just a game, the game should be fun.

Veterans dont need to be taken care of, unlike noobs they are self sufficient :L

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 23:42:30

CrazyEddie wrote:

MultiLife wrote:
And if I ended up at a pro town which kills newbies, I'd probably slack off there.
I would grief it.
... and I don't grief. But I'd make an exception for a town full of assholes.

The only real assholes are the morale police telling me how play a game i paid for, i dont hate noobs but i dont like them either, so trying to make me feel bad for a baby that can spawn back in 5 seconds isnt doing you any favors, you wanna call me an asshole for my controversial opinion, ok, but dont expect that to suddenly change the facts themselves.

Crumpaloo · 2019-01-17 23:51:47

happynova wrote:

For crying out loud.
This is a game that needs a playerbase to be viable, which means it needs new people to come in and to stick around. And competent players are the single most important factor in successful lineages and good game play, but all players start out incompetent. It's therefore an essential task for those of us who have learned to be competent to help create new competent players who will want to keep playing.
Kill or mistreat a new player for being new, and you teach them not to admit they're new or to ask for help when they need it. You teach them that the game is unwelcoming for new people and that existing players don't want them there. You teach them that the playerbase is selfish, uncaring, and okay with stabbing innocent people. Too much of that, and you drive them away before they can get good and contribute, or you turn them into griefers, acting out of frustration or resentment or a sense that it's a game full of selfish uncaring jerks, so why not join in. And you might not just be teaching that one person that, either. I've seen quite a few streamers coming in as newbies, playing blind or nearly blind. In which case, you're also giving anyone watching them and deciding whether to give the game a shot the same impression. It's bad for the future of the game and all of us who enjoy playing it.
On the other hand, if you show a newbie some kindness, help them learn, give them things to do instead of wandering around bored and frustrated, give them evidence that even though the learning curb is steep, they can learn and contribute -- in short, if you give them a positive early experience -- it will motivate them to stay, to learn more, to feel invested in the game and the towns they spawn into. And one day they will be the competent, helpful daughter who saves your Eve camp and launches your double-digit lineage.
Your behavior towards newbies is nothing more or less than you helping to create (or, as the case may be, destroy) the players who will be your future children and townspeople. Which means itt may be the single most important thing you can do in the game.
(This post is dedicated to the daughter I had earlier today who was so new I had to teach her "F for food," but who did an amazingly helpful job bringing basket after basket of food back to me while I got my Eve camp set up. Sometimes they surprise you. And whoever that person is, I think they're going to be a real asset if they stick around and learn.)

While i highly doubt just myself could have any effect on the playerbase just through my ramblings if some how it still manage to have an impact, this could take weeks, or even months of constant playing on my part to establish a pattern of that magnitude into that many players which i dont know if im gonna be even playing the game that long so why at the point would i even care what happens?

DestinyCall · 2019-01-18 00:18:54

CrazyEddie wrote:

MultiLife wrote:
And if I ended up at a pro town which kills newbies, I'd probably slack off there.
I would grief it.
... and I don't grief. But I'd make an exception for a town full of assholes.

I feel ya. I am the kind of player that does my best to live in every village I am born into and tries to successfully raise every baby that is born to me as a mother. But there are exceptions to every rule.

I was born to a mother in a small pre-sheep village once. Immediately upon being born, she informs me that they kill all boys in this village. Lucky for me, since I was a girl. Unlucky for her, because I immediately noped right out of that lineage.

I wasn't going to get involved in a village of baby killers. It would end badly for everyone.

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