Do you enjoy killing people?

Lu · 2019-02-05 13:05:50

The first time I killed someone was around my second week into the game when my eve mother Teresa told me (her daughter Jen) to protect the thriving jungle village she had so carefully raised. She gave me her knife right before she died, and I took it upon myself to look out for troublemakers. I lived this life normally while raising a family, farming, and giving advice/orders to new people in our growing village. Eventually people started recognizing me as the village leader as I grew older and one day, my niece ran up to me and warned me that some twin boys who were recently born were just eating all the berries, and were asking around where materials for a bow could be found. At first I wanted to dismiss it and give the twins a chance, but a gut feeling told me to immediately look around the village. I did so and after running around the village outskirts, I was disappointed to find one of the boys near two half made bows and some half made arrows. With only the safety of the village in mind at that time, I immediately ran up next to the boy and with some minor hesitation and sweaty hands, stabbed the little gremlin before he could talk or run away. After a bit of shock and pause, his last words were the N word before he expired. His twin brother came back shortly and after seeing me stand over his bloody corpse with knife in hand, he ran into the northern part of the jungle before I could act, and he eventually died of starvation at the age of 16.

The village was fine after that, but to this day I could never forget the mixed feelings of disgust, satisfaction, and numbness over the first murder I had ever caused.

The second time I killed someone was when I was born as a cook's second son in San-Cal city. My big brother and I were given knives and were being trained to succeed our mother's job after she died. Around the time I was in my teens, we were learning how to make bread when a griefer suddenly ran into the kitchen and shot my mother with a bow for no reason. At first my brother and I were in shock and panicking over how to save our mother. But, when that griefer started running away and saying "Hahahaha", I pulled out my own knife and ran towards him in in blind fury. I almost messed it up when I threw my knife on the ground by accident, but managed to pick it up before stabbing him and watching him die. Unfortunately, some people who heard the commotion ran into the kitchen and saw me near two bloody corpses with a bloody knife in my hand. Without hesitation, one of them cursed me before the other pulled out a knife and stabbed me. The last thing I heard as I was dying was my brother berating the two idiots about how they had mistakenly killed the wrong person.

This time when I killed someone, I only felt sorrow for my mother, regret, and only the smallest amount of satisfaction.

After that, I lived went onto live many lives without killing anyone while trying out and learning everything the game had to offer. From composting, shepherding, and smithing, to masonry, fishing, and even flower gardening, I was really having a fun time experiencing the things I never tried out. My favorite activity was hunting wolves and bears (especially when protecting towns), since the danger and reward involved made the activity quite fun. But after an endless cycle of doing the same things over and over again, I started to get.....bored. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was getting bored and dissatisfied as the number of new things for me to try slowly ran out. The amount of fun I got from doing things I used to enjoy doing slowly dwindled.

Around this time, I started paying less attention towards what I was doing and instead, observed the interactions of the people around me. Unlike me who tried to live many honest lives as much as I could, other people were having their own fun establishing religions, making royal families, and in some instances....causing conflict within villages. In this one particular medium town where I was the town's only smith, I was slaving away making tools, gathering the iron ore myself, and running seeing what people needed replaced. I was particularly annoyed when people were repeatedly taking or misplacing my flat rocks, adobe, and hammer despite my protests. It eroded my patience enough that when I was in my 30's, a distraught blonde mother came alone to my smithy and asked me to make her a knife so that she could avenge her son's murder in the farming fields. Normally I wouldn't have accepted her request, but my patience had worn thin enough with the town's people that I did so and watched her kill some woman before she was mobbed to death by the townspeople. Somehow, I didn't feel bad about this at all. In fact, I was entertained enough from this and decided to use the town's remaining sizable amount of iron to make a bunch of knives. I planted the knives around town (more than 10), and eventually in my old age I got to watch with growing glee as a young griefer started a chain of murders in town by killing a woman before someone killed him and so on and so fourth with the knives I had made.

Over time, watching people's reactions as they were murdered by griefers or something else triggered something in me. I liked the fresh experience of watching people die, and their shock and fear when confronted with impending death. It was enough to blow away the boredom I was feeling, so I slowly started dabbling more with getting people killed. Rather than killing people with my own hands though, I looked for ways to make people die through other means. SOME of my more memorable indirect murders included:

1) Luring bears into a settlement I was just born into as a baby. I really liked doing this multiple times. In one particular small camp I was born into, the small family of 4 there had just finished growing a field of carrots for the first time. Unfortunately, they chose to live really close to some badlands with three bear dens next to each other. When I was born there, I allowed my mother to feed me before running off towards those dens. I activated all three dens, and lured the angry hungry bears straight into the camp. I'll never forget the moment when those bears smashed into the camp like a tidal wave over a sand castle, and ripped apart my unaware mother into pieces. My uncle was shocked and screamed his head off, but only managed to run a few steps before a bear skipped over some items and chewed his face off. As for my siblings well....they were stupid enough to run towards my mom while she was being eaten as if they wanted to try and do something about it. Those poor suckers never had a chance. Unfortunately, people are smarter with bear safety nowadays when a bear comes into town.

2) Falsely accusing an unliked person in town of being a murderer/griefer and watching the townspeople mob them. Oddly enough, this worked more times than it should've. My favorite time of doing this was when the stone god religious was popular. The useless and weird priests were an easy target.

3) Consuming the majority of the town's food through either useless eating, feeding, or hiding the stuff, and then watching the elderly and children starve.

4) Breaking the town's tools and smithing/cooking facilities, draining the town's wells, and watching some people die from starvation while they futilely looked for supplies.

Then I started getting a little too blood crazy as my goal shifted from watching people suffer, to wanting people to die. Before I knew it, I had become the thing I had formerly hated. Some of my memorable attempts included:

1) When I was born as an eve, I immediately made a bow, ate a varied diet, and stayed in a temperature agreeable area. Then I waited for my children to be born. As soon as they were born, I shot them and cried out "BLOOOOOOOD!" or "FOR THE BLOOD GOD!". Because they were babies, they were helpless and couldn't curse me, and I could watch them die in confusion or numb acceptance. I did this until I was too old to bear any more children. This was pretty fun after my old methods got boring.

2) When I was born in a fledgling village that had a smithy, and grew old enough to wield a bow/knife, I'd go over to my female siblings and tell them "When you grow old enough, I will kill either you or your child. You choose who lives.". Most of the time, they would try and run or tattle, but I'd would eventually hunt them down and kill them. On rare occasions, they'd offer their son to me and I would accept their sacrifice before leaving them alone. I did this to my mothers as well. Even to my children. Interesting enough for a life or two, but not fun enough.

3) Hunting down children that went out of the village to explore/search for supplies. Again, they were easy targets and couldn't curse me. I preferred hunting down children since they couldn't hurt me when I caught them by surprise, but also had at least a small way to resist (running away). I like prey that can resist a little. One time, I found a child near a nosaj and stabbed him to death on the spot. I activated the nosaj, and went back into town pretending to mind my own business. When the mother of that child started looking for that child and eventually found the nosaj and their corpse, she also killed someone who happened to be near that nosaj thinking they were the murderer. That was fun to watch.

4) Snowballing moms who had just birthed a baby and picked them up. Usually the baby would die from starvation as I continuously pelted the mother with snowballs (or even the babies themselves), but if I was lucky enough then the mother would die as well. A very clean method of murder if you plan it out right.

By no means were these the best or efficient ways to kill people. I just wanted to derive enjoyment from what I did to stave off boredom. I think that killing people in the game is a beautiful thing, since a loved one or a person can have so many attachments before abruptly seeing it all end. No two deaths are ever quite the same, and no two circumstances that bring about a murder are ever quite the same. It's always fresh and ever changing enough (especially people's reactions) that I'd like to keep doing it again. Killing animals never gave me the right satisfaction, which is why I mostly left them alone in settlements. Human lives are cheap and expendable. But, I try not to aim to collapse a settlement alllllll the time. It would be no fun if there was no prey left to feed on. I think as long as this game doesn't provide enough new or convenient low/mid tech content to entertain me, I'll continue to partake in the delicacy of murder from time to time. I don't think what I do is meaningless, since it teaches people to be wary enough of others. Does it the ruin the game for others? Perhaps. Do I care? I think it's half and half for me.

How do you guys feel about murder, or when you kill people?

Last edited by Lu (2019-02-05 13:08:58)

Bob 101 · 2019-02-05 13:29:03

I mostly agree although I'm less about ruining towns too much. More like sniping off unproductive people and keeping the population in check. I mostly target females who have too many babies, snowballing has been a godsend for stealth killing.

I've noticed significant improvement in towns if I snowball the majority of the babies. Sometimes I leave the mothers alive but just kill off her babies, They usually don't care about them as much once they grow hair.

Their is certainly some thrill in killing without being caught. Sometimes in crappy towns I'll kill off vast amounts of the population without being noticed. But as a rule I only destroy towns that are trash anyway, This is to push players towards better families.

I think the days of flat out stabbing and shooting are mostly over. You stab one guy and you just get stabbed back and get a handful of curses. Peoples biggest mistake is typing something like "wtf" when hit with the first ball, It allows me to nail them a few more times.

Even people who don't grief probably get satisfaction from killing. They get pleasure from killing others who murder or annoy them. Dude came after me one time because I randomly cursed him. They just need an excuse.

Maybe we can twin?

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-02-05 13:43:05)

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-02-05 14:44:07

So its been you both this whole time!

In all seriousness, I have probably had a battle with both of you at some point in my play time (either of you ever get trapped in a snow jail by someone sacrificing themselves?). I feel like its easy to prey on the weak, but honestly you can usually spot a griefer from a mile away if you are decent. Even a pretty good one. I've hidden so many arrows, and always love watching someone frantically remake it only to have it disappear again the second they go to their bow hiding spot. Its usually an instant disconnect.

So my question to you is: You guys ever get greifed when greifing?

To answer your question, No I don't enjoy it. Like when I pull weeds in my yard.. I honestly have a split second of thinking who the hell am i to judge what needs to live and die.. but then remember I aint no hippy, and some weeds just need to be pulled. Then you move on because you can bet your bottom dollar they will be back anyways.

*edit
Just to clarify, when I hide arrows I know when to do it and I'm not hiding every arrow I see. Like when you are in a village where there isn't a mouflon, Hog, turkey, or wolf for over a hundred tiles in each direction.

Last edited by Grim_Arbiter (2019-02-05 15:26:39)

austin_beale · 2019-02-05 16:27:09

the favorite murder i've ever committed was a long time ago but there was this idiot trying to learn how to smith and totally fucking up what i was working on for the very early camp we were at. He was wasting stuff and not being efficient. I told him i would teach him and he told me to fuck off. So i knew right then that i would kill him, but i didn't want to alarm the village. So I made a knife and started to chase him around. Everyone in the village knew me at this point and knew i was one of the only people making stuff happen for our camp so they didn't do much. As i was chasing him he ran into some misquotes, and because I was standing next to him he wouldnt stop to get fed by other villagers. So he died, and I was happy. didnt even have to get my knife bloody. Two seconds later a griefer killed my mom and I stabbed him, then became the town hero.

one of my favorite murderer lives. because i went from being a griefer to being a hero in 2.2.

Bob 101 · 2019-02-05 16:56:04

Grim_Arbiter wrote:

So its been you both this whole time!
In all seriousness, I have probably had a battle with both of you at some point in my play time (either of you ever get trapped in a snow jail by someone sacrificing themselves?). I feel like its easy to prey on the weak, but honestly you can usually spot a griefer from a mile away if you are decent. Even a pretty good one. I've hidden so many arrows, and always love watching someone frantically remake it only to have it disappear again the second they go to their bow hiding spot. Its usually an instant disconnect.
So my question to you is: You guys ever get greifed when greifing?
To answer your question, No I don't enjoy it. Like when I pull weeds in my yard.. I honestly have a split second of thinking who the hell am i to judge what needs to live and die.. but then remember I aint no hippy, and some weeds just need to be pulled. Then you move on because you can bet your bottom dollar they will be back anyways.
*edit
Just to clarify, when I hide arrows I know when to do it and I'm not hiding every arrow I see. Like when you are in a village where there isn't a mouflon, Hog, turkey, or wolf for over a hundred tiles in each direction.

You're right about one thing. The griefer will just comeback and fuckup your town.

Never think you've won by killing a griefer, You only delay things slightly. I haven't regretted purchasing an alt account to get past lineage bans.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-02-05 17:43:33

Bob 101 wrote:

You're right about one thing. The griefer will just comeback and fuckup your town.
Never think you've won by killing a griefer, You only delay things slightly. I haven't regretted purchasing an alt account to get past lineage bans.

Ok so that confirms that suspicion I've had. Ive wondered how a kid can literally follow in the exact destructive path as the previous older adult. I mean I knew that others have alt accounts for other reasons, I just never knew if anyone had it solely for greifing. I thought most of them were just discord teamwork, but it makes way more sense that it is one person.

Well like you know, you and Lu are at the higher side of the scale of greifing and are actually a solid threat vs someone who is going to stab randomly and then starve to death. Im not saying both cant be threatening, but those on the lower scale of greifing will generally combat with the lower of the scale of the general player base. Just thinking you guys deserve a counter challege by someone close to your level every now and then.

See you on the battlefield

apereason · 2019-02-05 18:24:15

I think at one point I completely murdered a town and doomed a line. I felt pretty bad afterwards and died of old age trying to get the town as clean and as ready for an eve as possible. afterwards I had to spend an hour in donkeytown. So you could say I enjoy killing but I only kill noobs that are so bad at the game that they are actually destroying things and greifers.

I don't understand the want to consistently doom lines, if you're gonna kill people for the sport at least kill only boys. In this game I really enjoy trying to get the longest possible line starting from eve, at least 70% of the time greifers kill off some of the females and the remaining people are noobs who die from inexperience, eliminating some of the population isn't really an option considering how many noobs are born, about 30% will die consistently

Last time I have done anything harmful was breeding pit bulls, I didn't abuse them, random kid did so
Some examples: (I was eve)

http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=3215748
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=3245984 A couple of murders in last gen if you look for them

Last edited by apereason (2019-02-05 18:36:14)

Léonard · 2019-02-05 18:27:27

Bob 101 wrote:

I haven't regretted purchasing an alt account to get past lineage bans.

I think when you start paying for a game twice for the only purpose of griefing we should not be afraid to call this an obsession.
Reading the OP also really felt like reading the confession of a psychopath, that was surreal.

I mean, if the game isn't enough for you anymore, if you're bored, why not just quit it?
If you like combat that much, why not play a PVP game?
No, you just have this weird obsession with having fun at the expanse of others.

Lu wrote:

When I was born as an eve, I immediately made a bow, ate a varied diet, and stayed in a temperature agreeable area. Then I waited for my children to be born. As soon as they were born, I shot them and cried out "BLOOOOOOOD!" or "FOR THE BLOOD GOD!". Because they were babies, they were helpless and couldn't curse me, and I could watch them die in confusion or numb acceptance. I did this until I was too old to bear any more children. This was pretty fun after my old methods got boring.

Especially this.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not the kind of guy to be attached to pixels on my screen and roleplay saying I love my kids.
But this is purely pointless.
You do know babies will simply get reborn to another mother after that?
If it were me I wouldn't even bother trying to curse you, I'll just get reborn to someone who actually wants to play the game with me.
Are you sure you don't have just some sort of weird gore fetish?

Maybe you're just yet another toxic roleplayer trying to roleplay as a serial killer/psychopath.
Either way this does confirm that experienced players can simply start being griefers out of boredom and I'm hopping CrazyEddie's suggestion for the curse system is implemented so that we can get rid of griefers like you.

Last edited by Léonard (2019-02-05 18:28:33)

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-02-05 18:46:55

I don't like murder.

I don't watch much tv, because the shows are mostly about murder. I don't like violent games, and i absolutely hate horror films. My forms of entertainment are limited by this preference. If you like killing other characters, why play this game? There are only two ways to do the deed directly. There are thousands of games with military themes and opportunities to trick and overpower your opponent. Why play OHOL for death?

I've killed other characters, when they are being blatantly evil, and yeah, if feels good to get the griefer. But I don't crave it.

When I pass on my knife I'm likely to say something about using it to protect. Only kill another if it protects the village.

Killing other characters or causing the death of other characters for fun is definitely ruining the game for me and others.
I know. You don't really care. But here are some things to think about:

How many people play this game? How many people will continue to play this game over the next year? Will there ever be a big new influx of players?

How long until there are not enough people playing OHOL for it to be fun for most of the current players? Where is the tipping point, that server population never comes back from?

You aren't just thinning the population of one poorly built town. You are thinning out the population of people who play OHOL.

I deal with annoying people by first teaching them how to do things right, and if it continues, avoiding them. It's pretty easy to do both. I deal with poorly built towns by seeing them as a challenge, and occasionally starving to get out of there early. I deal with boredom in a well run town by finding something to build, or roleplaying with family.

Most of the players deal with these aspects of the game without killing other people's characters. Why can't you?

pein · 2019-02-05 18:51:10

i started late and there were phases in development, until we realized how to make an eve run, how to make most of stuff, a swamp city (it was best before deserts), killings already started and jason didn't wanted to nerf it, so a few days just went with people coming back to camp and revenging each other

after the nerfs to compost, was harder to sustain a long lineage, you either needed very good spots, or making a pen
that's when i started making pit pens, and became meta, generally people very unskilled to manage a pen and i had a knife most of times, i got rid of people who couldn't understand the mechanics and kept ruining others work

after the berry buff, it became easier to make wool clothes, people still not did it
when i learned smiting (kinda late) i was spending lifes to make camps work so i didn't let people with bad intentions alive

i searched on my name on discord and quite funny comments on me, like early tarr something like "you don't get killed by pein, if you arent a dick"
and generally people just crying for getting killed, and i even joined discord ver late, and had like 2 months with huge skill advantage in any duel

generally even if you don't grief bt keep close attention to the camp, killing 20 people a week on 2 hour per day gametime isn't that much

ive been griefing a few times, but not that often, there were page long topics from the guys complaining
generally if im killed by backstabbers unfairly without reason or them giving a chance to defend myself, i will ruin that camp to the ground

exploits like teleporting bloody knives were fun, i had 5-6 kills under 2 minutes, i think 8 max, and i was the reason jason fixed that
didn't abuse the butter knife, someone had like 180 kills that week
im like only top 30 or so, there are dedicated killers and griefers who do that all the time

i suck at duels when i didn't do anything but people attack me ,once i traveled from casino city to painter town, and got killed by a dude cause he though i killed the females, actually the small girl killed her mother terminating the lineage, i was too old anyway and no reason to kill them off after travelling 40 min and finding another city i helped to build

if someone pisses me off, then chances are in 2 min they are dead

i had a few lives where i killed the rampaging murderer, starting from baby age, and i like knife fights with equal chances

i even had a topic to teach people how to kill and it was a rise in killings after that, but in good direction, people like Mirelli are more complete players after knowing how to kill, generally people were giving reasons for kill and only the ones who were shady, were killed after

but then curses came, and people don't know how to water a bush but curse you for telling them that they are lazy
to be fair, i cant imagine why you expect someone let you alive for cursing him then doing nothing but leaching on his work
curses are generally bad, was bad enough that people kill you for killing a griefer
now there are dedicated framers who go around 2 hours to curse someone for smashing a snowball in their face

my favorite kill lately, was on a camp where i spent 3 lifes. i made a new berry farm on jungle in first life, got sheep and tools, then i came back as a guy, made boards around it, people helped me with that, we made tons of compost
then there was this dumb chick who stealing all my fleece to make pads, taxed her with 2 and she even whined about it, then she made a stupid medical station in a stupid location, and kept talking back bullshit so i snowballed her
was this dumb baby who wasn't even 2 year old and told me she gonna kill me for it.
i snowballed a woman standing right in front of the kiln afk, as we needed the kiln
then this baby grow up and i was 56. she stabbed me for killing her aunt and her mom. like i snowballed a lazy noob and an afk old chick. and she spent her childhood to make knife to kill the most productive member.
i wasn't really paying attention, could have dodged it, but i didn't.
but i came back right after, she was wearing my clothes, smiting. i brought 3 snowballs in basket, waited until she ate pies and started doing stuff, when she lighted up the forge i smashed one snowball to her face, then she was like "who was it?", she dropped the tongs, and the forge was fired still, i smashed one more to her face, then waited 10 sec and one more. i was like 4-5 year old, revenged myself, and got back my clothes from her. i really hate people who kill or curse based on the relation they got rather than considering who is the fault or who is the useless shit stirring sponge. so i love killing them.

the other was killing the asshole guy who killed my family members cause we had other name, then killing my sister who jumped for the other crown, made a bell from 2 crowns and repopulated the city.

its fun and i don't mind, i know when i deserve to be killed, and im not mad about it, but most people are too self righteous, and try to force others into their bullshet or decide for others, when they clearly lack he skill for that. im always up for a duel when they give me a chance, i also generally like to give them weapon and then kill them, its more fair, less annoying, and when they are big mouth, a bit of extended hunting is more enjoyable, generally i run, even if i know they suck at it, because i can lure them out and safely disarm/kill them.

people try to find bullshit excuses for kills, i even warn people once and then kill them if they ignore the logic. also curses became to mainstream so you cant safely kill assholes on sight, snowballs are best for that, but if you miss they make even more drama. Also some people are still killing you on cooldown without letting you explain stuff, and some even curse you on sight even if you are right. i got like 13 curses for killing a kid who jumped for the bow at age 8, and dumbfucks believed him over me, especially rp nabs, noobs with crowns and female baby machines who manipulate their kids and stir shit are the ones who do nothing but spend their life to find a reason to hate someone then kill that person, and curse it.
If there are some veterans we recognize each other and deal with them with no repercussion. If not, i try to make sure there arent other weapons and still stab their ass.

Lu · 2019-02-05 19:02:31

@apereason:

Hmm.... how should I explain it? Initially when I began my murdering career, I did feel guilty for sometimes ending the lines of some hard working families. But that started to end as I kept playing the game. By that, I mean that as I lived multiple vanilla lives and died peacefully before later checking my family trees, I found that the vast majority of families (both ones I made and participated in) mostly died off between generations 1-18 even without me doing anything to them. I think I started to slowly despair at the futility of all the contributions I made to every society I was in since they would most likely die off sooner or later without even reaching gen 20. Sure, the game was made so that nothing lasts forever, but that doesn’t change the fact that all the positive stuff I did was all for nothing. Even more so when Jason reimplemented the apocalypse. In one of my lives, I was a treasure hunter and came across so many abandoned well established villages that this further reinforced my belief. Even more more so when I spent so many generations starting and building san-cal castle/university only to realize my hard work would suddenly disappear without warning. Nowadays, I feel that the destruction of a lineage by my hands is an unfortunate and sometimes coincidental byproduct of my quest to find fun. I like killing females rather men most of the time as I can bask in the feelings of horror and despair that the villagers exhibit as they realize I’ve doomed their village, or that I’ve killed someone they’ll never likely meet again with the same relationship they had before. Killing boys....it doesn’t have as much stakes in it which is why it wasn’t too fun.

@Leonard:

Lol, thank you for *enjoying* what I wrote. It’s nice to know I was able to convey my experiences onto you. Hmm, I think that over time, I was trying to find more ways to enjoy the game to stop it from being boring. I do love the game, and I think Jason wanted us to enjoy EVERY aspect of the game, even the negative ones. Even if they aren’t necessarily enjoyed by everyone. I’m quite fully aware this game wasn’t made for pvp. But I don’t go looking to fight people, I go looking into hunting them. I’m fully aware that babies get reborn to other mothers regardless of what I do to them. But I don’t care, I’m looking for new ways to enjoy killing people. When you learn to farm, you get trapped in a cycle of simply taking care of plants and worrying about compost. When you learn how to smith, you follow a static approach of making tools, or trying to make a vehicle you will most likely never see finished in a single lifetime while dealing with iron and complicated production issues. With killing, you can approach it in many ways at a low cost. As I said before, humans lives and progress are cheap, and I can have fun in a simple manner. Might as well take advantage of that. Otherwise, why would Jason implement murder and the apocalypse for people far worse than me to enjoy?

Am I a toxic roleplayer? Maybe. But, after seeing so many deaths happen that weren’t by my hand (especially baby suicides), I’m pretty apathetic about what I do.

Last edited by Lu (2019-02-05 19:47:29)

Lu · 2019-02-05 20:13:27

@bluediamondavatar

In the majority of games I play, I almost never take part in pvp or murder. I’m the kind of person you’ll find in other games that likes to craft or build things while enjoying it with others. In fact, I still do so at times in OHOL when taking a break from murdering people. So to answer your question, why do I play OHOL for death when there are other games where I can kill people?

Simple, the people I kill have investment and close/familial bonds in this game. When I have the opportunity to destroy that in an instant and watch them despair/get exasperated/ rage, it tickles my ingame heart and makes me wanna do more. It’s like a drug. I don’t think most people can sympathize until they REALLY try it.

As for your second point, I like to think that my actions only affect a handful of people in a sea of players. People are already used to unfairly dying whether by mosquitos, wolves, starvation, or snakebites. Why would murder be any different to them? People are tougher than that. They might even get the motivation to keep playing in hopes of getting revenge, but finding something else in life to do instead. I don’t mind potentially thinning the potential amount of players in the game, it’s just an issue too big for me to properly care while about knowing that others will do my job even if I do nothing.

Now, that’s not to say I don’t enjoy a vanilla life these days. I’m not a bloody murderer in every life; that would get stale. I do properly raise families, teach newbies, get attached to people, and feed villages/smith when no one else wants to from time to time. However, I meet too many ppl nowadays who hardly talk in villages and mindlessly do their jobs without forming bonds. That gets monotonous. Adding some spice into their lives is part of what I do and enjoy.

Last edited by Lu (2019-02-05 20:20:20)

Solbusaur · 2019-02-05 23:01:21

I get satisfaction from killing, especially when the griefer is trying to be as annoying as possible. But reading Bob and Lu's stories twists my stomach, particularly the snowballing since you can get away with it so easily. Everything else is avoidable, but it still hurts.

Léonard · 2019-02-05 23:23:06

Lu wrote:

it’s just an issue too big for me to properly care while about knowing that others will do my job even if I do nothing.

"Why should I stop griefing if other griefers already exist"
Nice philosophy.

Lu wrote:

People are already used to unfairly dying whether by mosquitos, wolves, starvation, or snakebites. Why would murder be any different to them?

Because it is outside of their control.
You can get better at managing your hunger, learning yum bonuses, learning temperature management, etc..
You can get better at dodging wild animals (boy do I know I have...) by predicting their movement, looking at their patterns, knowing when to move, etc...

But I cannot control if my life will be spent dealing with stupid stuff that wouldn't happen if griefers didn't exist.
Things like fixing the pen after a griefer dug up half a bell tower and let all the animals out.
I always have this picture of a griefer in my mind, rubbing his hands and laughing.
How do you enjoy this? You just know at some point someone will take notice and likely fix it, or it might be too late and a whole village will die of hunger.
And this is supposed to entertain both the victim and the griefer somehow? What?

Or another thing is seeing a wave of bears invade the town, you literally have to immediately stop whatever you were doing (even if you were actually having fun and enjoying the game the way it was meant to be enjoyed, mind you) and usually spend decades looking for thread to make a bow and three arrows to finally hopefully kill the bear before it doomed your lineage.
WOW so much fun!

Or spending your time eyeing that weird kid who plays around with the bow only to finally shoot someone after he's held it for ten minutes.
I swear this is a pattern, it's happened three lives in a row by now.
At this point I think I might stab the next kid who holds onto the bow for no apparent reason.
And I'm reluctant to do this. Because what's going to happen?
If this guy takes notice he'll simply start running and a chase will ensue. The both of us will be unhittable at this point and the whole thing would have become pointless.
The game isn't even MADE with PVP in mind and you're asking me to have fun dealing with griefers.
This is why I stick to ignoring that weird kid with the bow (only running occasionally when he gets too close), I know exactly how it will end up.
It is purely frustrating and you can trust me on that: no one other than the griefer is enjoying it. You can be sure of it.

Lu wrote:

Otherwise, why would Jason implement murder and the apocalypse for people far worse than me to enjoy?

From what I've heard, Jason made the apocalypse because he felt civilizations progressed too fast and he was tired of huge towns where there is nothing to be done other than to survive.
Going from there, I have argued against this idea in one of my very first posts and in short my point is that if people complete the game too fast you should focus on giving them more content to worry about rather than simply implementing a reset button, as if the fact that people were completing civilizations that quickly didn't mean they were bored of it already.
Which is what you would want by the way, isn't it?
I mean you said it yourself, you started killing as a way to enjoy this game again because you felt the content already present wasn't enough anymore.
It's also possible Jason made the apocalypse for other reasons as well and if that's the case I would be glad to know.

As for murdering, I'm not sure really. It's interesting to think about.
I have heard Jason likes realism and dramatic endings.
I also heard that murdering came before curses which I think is important.
You might say knives are as much a tool for griefing as they are a tool to stop it.
But cursing. That's very different.
It also makes sense. If your game was complete anarchy and there would be no repercussion to griefing, you could expect to have your game ruined every life.
How would you solve that? Give people the tool to take care of it.
That's how you solve this. Asserting that you didn't advert your game as some sort of PVP game of course, you can expect the majority of your playerbase will want to play it to build things rather than to grief.
So if the majority use the curse system to get rid of griefers, you will get rid of griefers.

I really like this quote from the wiki which is from Jason himself:

Repeat offenders who keep bothering people as a way of life, will eventually serve 5 hours every time they go to donkey town.

You can extrapolate from this that Jason in fact didn't want griefers in his game, or more precisely wanted them to be taken appart and do their own thing in their own place.
That's why I think the curse tweak is important.

Lu wrote:

I think Jason wanted us to enjoy EVERY aspect of the game, even the negative ones. Even if they aren’t necessarily enjoyed by everyone.

If the point of the curse system was to separate out griefers from regular players (by sending them to their own place) then this would hold true and I would agree with it.
The morale would boil down to: you can kill people all you want as long as you do not disturb the majority who want to build things.

Lu wrote:

I like to think that my actions only affect a handful of people in a sea of players.

I think it's important to think about the overall game image rather than the single players you kill potentially quitting.
If people notice there's a griefing problem in this game then they will think of it as some sort of rust clone.
If they think that, they will likely be much less inclined to buy it. That means overall much less players online.
If I had this image of the game before buying it, I would have not bought it.
If Jason came in this thread and told me I was completely wrong about the curse system, that he fully intends to keep griefers in the game and among everyone else, that this is effectively another The Forest or Rust, I would completely stop playing the game.
Because to put it bluntly I didn't buy the game for this.
I didn't expect to have to deal with frustrating griefers constantly when I bought this game.
I don't want to.

Last edited by Léonard (2019-02-05 23:24:05)

Lu · 2019-02-06 00:46:16

Léonard wrote:

"Why should I stop griefing if other griefers already exist"
Nice philosophy.

A philosophy that is neither quite incorrect, nor quite fully deniable when viewed by the eyes of a murderer yes?

Léonard wrote:

Because it is outside of their control.
You can get better at managing your hunger, learning yum bonuses, learning temperature management, etc..
You can get better at dodging wild animals (boy do I know I have...) by predicting their movement, looking at their patterns, knowing when to move, etc...

Going by this logic, I could say that you can get better at preventing griefing by banning knives and bows in town and killing those that possess them, blockading all nearby bear caves, and murdering people who you suspect even slightly might be a troublemaker so as to give a few examples. You could take really extreme measures to get griefing under your control and for future generations and not have to worry about it. Sure, it'll affect your quality of life, but hey, it's in your control.

Léonard wrote:

I always have this picture of a griefer in my mind, rubbing his hands and laughing.
How do you enjoy this? You just know at some point someone will take notice and likely fix it, or it might be too late and a whole village will die of hunger.
And this is supposed to entertain both the victim and the griefer somehow? What?

As hilarious as it is to think about, unfortunately I'm pretty sure the victim wouldn't be entertained. Especially when they're being eaten alive hehehe. But then again, it's allllll about my own entertainment. Sometimes, I like to think of it as my own little game. Will I be noticed and suffer the consequences of being killed/cursed, or manage to carry out my plans with everybody realizing too late what I've done? In the process of doing so, I've repeatedly watched people start by noticing something being off in town, then prodding things a little to make everyone go on alert, and finally finish off by either causing the accumulated hysteria/suspicion in town with a false accusation, planting false evidence, or some other thing that leads to fun fun killing time. Part of the fun comes from the reactions, another part comes from the adrenaline of seeing if I'll be found out, and the last part comes from plotting the dirty deed itself.

I think people sometimes underestimate the risks that murderers must take to accomplish their jobs. Handling snowballs carries the risk of freezing and starving to death, or missing your snowball shots. Handling animals carries the risk of being mauled. Trying to acquire murder weapons or carrying out sabotage carries the risk of you accumulating suspicion by the townsfolk. And then there's the possible factor that people have healing tools to circumvent you simply stabbing a person. But that's what makes it more fun to the murderer since I gotta take all these factors into account. Or at the very least, it makes it fun for me.

Léonard wrote:

Or another thing is seeing a wave of bears invade the town

Don't knock it till' you try it. It's actually quite harder than it looks sometimes. Especially when others interfere.

Léonard wrote:

From what I've heard, Jason made the apocalypse because he felt civilizations progressed too fast and he was tired of huge towns where there is nothing to be done other than to survive.
Going from there, I have argued against this idea in one of my very first posts and in short my point is that if people complete the game too fast you should focus on giving them more content to worry about rather than simply implementing a reset button, as if the fact that people were completing civilizations that quickly didn't mean they were bored of it already.
Which is what you would want by the way, isn't it?
I mean you said it yourself, you started killing as a way to enjoy this game again because you felt the content already present wasn't enough anymore.
It's also possible Jason made the apocalypse for other reasons as well and if that's the case I would be glad to know.
As for murdering, I'm not sure really. It's interesting to think about.
I have heard Jason likes realism and dramatic endings.
I also heard that murdering came before curses which I think is important.
You might say knives are as much a tool for griefing as they are a tool to stop it.
But cursing. That's very different.
It also makes sense. If your game was complete anarchy and there would be no repercussion to griefing, you could expect to have your game ruined every life.
How would you solve that? Give people the tool to take care of it.
That's how you solve this. Asserting that you didn't advert your game as some sort of PVP game of course, you can expect the majority of your playerbase will want to play it to build things rather than to grief.
So if the majority use the curse system to get rid of griefers, you will get rid of griefers.
I really like this quote from the wiki which is from Jason himself:
Repeat offenders who keep bothering people as a way of life, will eventually serve 5 hours every time they go to donkey town.
You can extrapolate from this that Jason in fact didn't want griefers in his game, or more precisely wanted them to be taken appart and do their own thing in their own place.
That's why I think the curse tweak is important.

I've done a bit of contemplating before on this, and even looked into the issues concerning how knives and the apocalypse were originally utilized before in the past. But at the end of the day, it doesn't change the fact that these things still exist for me to freely use. Of course, Jason could tweak the curse system, turn knives into safety knives, or carry out some other measures to decrease the means that griefers have to inflict upon others. But then again, I've mostly given up on betting that Jason will do anything meaningful about it nor anything about other current issues, and will instead implement a well-meant but not very useful update about sending people into outer space in a rocket made out of toothpicks and glue. I agree with some of what you said concerning this particular subject, but it's ultimately useless for me to think about what could be, and to instead think about what I could be doing to have fun right now (even with my bloody methods).

Léonard wrote:

I think it's important to think about the overall game image rather than the single players you kill potentially quitting.
If people notice there's a griefing problem in this game then they will think of it as some sort of rust clone.
If they think that, they will likely be much less inclined to buy it. That means overall much less players online.
If I had this image of the game before buying it, I would have not bought it.
If Jason came in this thread and told me I was completely wrong about the curse system, that he fully intends to keep griefers in the game and among everyone else, that this is effectively another The Forest or Rust, I would completely stop playing the game.
Because to put it bluntly I didn't buy the game for this.
I didn't expect to have to deal with frustrating griefers constantly when I bought this game.
I don't want to.

Again, not completely my problem. If Jason can give us something more entertaining to do that's easily accessible enough for the masses, then I'll quit murdering people and partake in community building. Concerning the game's overall image, that's not my problem either. That's Jason's. I'm really just one out of many doing this. Even if there are less players online, I shall continue to kill and kill to sate my appetite for entertainment when I feel like it or until there are no people left to meaningfully (in my view) kill. I do hold some sympathy for you, and I didn't expect to have to deal with griefers when I bought this game either. When I bought this game, I thought I'd be able to continually leave stuff behind for my descendants to permanently enjoy (sometimes). But hey, if something as crude as murder and mayhem is in the game, then I'll take my time to enjoy it like every other aspect of the game. All I can say is, even if you manage to somehow convince me to stop killing me people, this will keep happening no matter what for the time being. Ultimately, you gotta look to Jason to do something about it lol.

It's important to remember however, that I don't speak for every murderer out there. These are all just my own personal thoughts. I think I wrote all this not only to show how I like killing people, but to also show unaware people that yes, these kinds of activities happen ingame. Being a lone murderer though, made me always wonder how others who have killed before have thought about the act of murder in game. Are they like me or even worse? Or do they do it for some personal form of justice/efficiency reasons?

Bob 101 · 2019-02-06 01:21:40

Grim_Arbiter wrote:

Bob 101 wrote:
You're right about one thing. The griefer will just comeback and fuckup your town.
Never think you've won by killing a griefer, You only delay things slightly. I haven't regretted purchasing an alt account to get past lineage bans.
Ok so that confirms that suspicion I've had. Ive wondered how a kid can literally follow in the exact destructive path as the previous older adult. I mean I knew that others have alt accounts for other reasons, I just never knew if anyone had it solely for greifing. I thought most of them were just discord teamwork, but it makes way more sense that it is one person.
Well like you know, you and Lu are at the higher side of the scale of greifing and are actually a solid threat vs someone who is going to stab randomly and then starve to death. Im not saying both cant be threatening, but those on the lower scale of greifing will generally combat with the lower of the scale of the general player base. Just thinking you guys deserve a counter challege by someone close to your level every now and then.
See you on the battlefield

I agree but like I said. Stopping me is meaningless, I won't comeback right away as people are usually more alert after a recent greifing.
love when people like you get hard from killing me 1/10 times.

But give it an hour and that town will have a fresh set of people. I'm not gonna waste effort trying to fight somebody who already knows my patterns, I'd be stabbed as a child!

TLDR; Mortality is your ultimate weakness.

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-02-06 01:24:12)

Léonard · 2019-02-06 03:02:43

Lu wrote:

A philosophy that is neither quite incorrect, nor quite fully deniable when viewed by the eyes of a murderer yes?

Sure, anything depends on perspective.
To the majority, you are a griefer.
But in your own eyes you are just a desperately bored guy.
That's just rationalizing.

Lu wrote:

Going by this logic, I could say that you can get better at preventing griefing by banning knives and bows in town and killing those that possess them, blockading all nearby bear caves, and murdering people who you suspect even slightly might be a troublemaker so as to give a few examples. You could take really extreme measures to get griefing under your control and for future generations and not have to worry about it. Sure, it'll affect your quality of life, but hey, it's in your control.

Thinking that you can control griefing is naive at best.
My point was that those things are actually predictable.
I can't predict what another player will do.
Any attempt at banning knives will be voided the instant a competent smith is born into the city.
What will I do then? Kill him if he decides to make another knife? Then I become a griefer myself.

What if a griefer decides he wants to kill me specifically and I see him coming?
Wooo! Infinite chase!

What if the griefer simply hides resources I've made while I'm not looking away?
Let's face it, you just can't control griefing.
It just happens to you or it doesn't.

Sure though, I could painstakingly block out bear caves.
It would be very resource intensive though now that you need the whole 4 blocks + kit to actually make it unremovable.

Lu wrote:

Again, not completely my problem. [...] Concerning the game's overall image, that's not my problem either. That's Jason's. [...] Ultimately, you gotta look to Jason to do something about it lol.

Yeah, I realize that.

Lu wrote:

I've mostly given up on betting that Jason will do anything meaningful about it nor anything about other current issues, and will instead implement a well-meant but not very useful update about sending people into outer space in a rocket made out of toothpicks and glue. [...] but it's ultimately useless for me to think about what could be, and to instead think about what I could be doing to have fun right now (even with my bloody methods).

I see what you mean there, too.
It seems even just him acknowledging problems is erratic.
Though that just might be linked to him simply browsing the forums/reddit/github issues or not. I'm not really sure.

Lu wrote:

Or do they do it for some personal form of justice/efficiency reasons?

Just by reading this forum I am willing to bet there are a ton who fall into this category.
Also today I saw a guy trying to kill everyone in town simply because his mother tried to name him "gay". Yeah...

karltown_veteran · 2019-02-06 03:27:55

I do, 'cuz I like the scream and the blood, but I'm always too soft to go through with it if it's unprovoked murder. Once I wanted to kill a town with a bow and arrow, then they asked me what I was doing with it and I said "Uh.. sheep"
I ended up getting them sheep after all.. I'm hopeless
Don't care if I kill griefers or trolls though.

Last edited by karltown_veteran (2019-02-06 03:34:03)

antking:]# · 2019-02-06 03:44:55

I know that the scarifies, of people might be necessary, yet for me it still feels wrong..
take this thought experiment,
there is an unmanned train hurtling at a group of workers, and they won't be able to get out in time, luckily you are next to a switch that will redirect the train, but on the other track their is one worker. now most people would flick the lever as, 5>1.

now think of a sanerio like this you are on top of a hill and, the unmanned train is hurtling at the construction workers, this time their is no switch, but their is a big man next to you, he might be able to slow down, the wild train, allowing for the workers to escape. surprising most people wouldn't push the man off the cliff to save the workers!

no the theory for this is that even though five will always be greater then one it feels more personal if you push some one off a cliff it feels more personal then, flicking the switch and shrugging it of like collateral damage.

It's wrong to kill but is it good for the benefit or self joy of others? this thought experiment is called the trolley ology. I will always believe that murder is bad and instead of instantly killing find another solution, and or go entertain yourself with gossip.. if you want to cause misery and drama to entertain yourself.

however OHLO flips my ideology on its head, as we just keep on coming back! we are to necromantic angles/demons then to humans!

Last edited by antking:]# (2019-02-06 05:10:42)

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-02-06 03:58:15

Bob 101 wrote:

[
I agree but like I said. Stopping me is meaningless, I won't comeback right away as people are usually more alert after a recent greifing.
love when people like you get hard from killing me 1/10 times.
But give it an hour and that town will have a fresh set of people. I'm not gonna waste effort trying to fight somebody who already knows my patterns, I'd be stabbed as a child!

TLDR; Mortality is your ultimate weakness.

Well honestly I'm not like getting off to stopping it, and sometimes I will let you do your thing and not try to get involved. But I still notice it everytime and can see the operations. I'd rather be known as an explorer than greifer hunter and dont get as big of a rush out of stopping it as you think I do. My rush is traveling and finding things.

Its more of like a mess with the bull get the horns thing. I'm not even the best by any means and I interrupt griefing schemes, so you have to run into more resistance than me. Sure you can come back when I'm gone but there can be someone better who just replaced me. Maybe they just grinded their whole last life too and wouldn't mind a little action.

MultiLife · 2019-02-06 06:47:07

I second what Leonard said in his first post, there are better games than OHOL to enjoy. The moment I realized the game has become boring, I ceased my playing instead of starting to bother other players.

And the pulling weeds thing the other guy said. The only satisfaction I get from killing is the fact that the person is "removed from the session". Nothing else. I hate drama.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-02-06 07:38:56)

WalrusesConquer · 2019-02-06 07:08:09

Conspiracy: Lu and Bob are the same person

Nepumuk · 2019-02-06 07:22:33

Here's the thing: he enjoys playing this game and he enjoys playing it this way and there is really nothing preventing him from doing so unless Jason changes.....something. Telling him that there are different options which would be more enjoyable for us is pretty meaningless, isn't it? There is nothing forcing him to change so from his perspective he simply doesn't need to.

I gotta be honest, this thread is the most disheartening thing I've seen since I started playing OHOL and I've seen a lot of crap in game and out. Knowing that people like this exist and knowing that we are all now on one server and there is no way of escaping them... it doesn't make me angry or even sad. It's just this numbing feeling of my effort seeming pointless, a sort of apathy creeping over me.
Makes me wonder, do I really want to keep playing, should I really try my hardest if this is what I'm up against? I'd much prefer just getting pointlessly stabbed every other life to this.

Alas, the only one who can change this is Jason. He created this playground and he makes the rules (or lack thereof) we play by. I wish I could share his approach of expecting people to be mature enough to solve issues among themselves but I really don't see it working in the state that the game is in now, sadly.

Last edited by Nepumuk (2019-02-06 07:23:44)

MultiLife · 2019-02-06 08:00:19

Nepumuk wrote:

Here's the thing: he enjoys playing this game and he enjoys playing it this way and there is really nothing preventing him from doing so unless Jason changes.....something. Telling him that there are different options which would be more enjoyable for us is pretty meaningless, isn't it? There is nothing forcing him to change so from his perspective he simply doesn't need to.
I gotta be honest, this thread is the most disheartening thing I've seen since I started playing OHOL and I've seen a lot of crap in game and out. Knowing that people like this exist and knowing that we are all now on one server and there is no way of escaping them... it doesn't make me angry or even sad. It's just this numbing feeling of my effort seeming pointless, a sort of apathy creeping over me.
Makes me wonder, do I really want to keep playing, should I really try my hardest if this is what I'm up against? I'd much prefer just getting pointlessly stabbed every other life to this.

When a game becomes pointless, repetitive, hollow, etc., it's a clear indication that it can't please you anymore in the way it was supposed to. This is where the mature choice is to not become destructive towards other players but rather move oneself to an environment which can and will entertain them. Immature people are selfish and put their enjoyment before others, mature people are not (or at least they are in a healthy way).
As this game has only one dev, you are bound to find yourself getting bored; first some parts of the game, then ultimately the game itself. Then you start to behave in however way you feel like - or move away and give time for the game to develop more. For some reason many players just can't let a game go and do something else for a while, I guess it feels similar to giving up and they are too headstrong to give in for such a thing. Shrug.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-02-06 08:01:03)

Lu · 2019-02-06 08:09:56

Nepumuk wrote:

Here's the thing: he enjoys playing this game and he enjoys playing it this way and there is really nothing preventing him from doing so unless Jason changes.....something. Telling him that there are different options which would be more enjoyable for us is pretty meaningless, isn't it? There is nothing forcing him to change so from his perspective he simply doesn't need to.
I gotta be honest, this thread is the most disheartening thing I've seen since I started playing OHOL and I've seen a lot of crap in game and out. Knowing that people like this exist and knowing that we are all now on one server and there is no way of escaping them... it doesn't make me angry or even sad. It's just this numbing feeling of my effort seeming pointless, a sort of apathy creeping over me.
Makes me wonder, do I really want to keep playing, should I really try my hardest if this is what I'm up against? I'd much prefer just getting pointlessly stabbed every other life to this.
Alas, the only one who can change this is Jason. He created this playground and he makes the rules (or lack thereof) we play by. I wish I could share his approach of expecting people to be mature enough to solve issues among themselves but I really don't see it working in the state that the game is in now, sadly.

To offer some comforting words, the good experiences that you encounter in this game will probably outweigh most of the bad that might happen to you. True, there are loons like me out there on the loose, but encountering a very very meticulous murderer on me bent on the desecration of your hard work is probably unlikely. The most trouble you'd probably see is some guy suddenly stabbing a woman and being done with it. You're not up against a secret giant shadow army of griefers (lol) that are trying to get you killed and wanna destroy civilization on a 24/7 basis. It's terribly difficult for one person to completely destroy everything you know, love, and made in an instant. Everything you do has meaning to it.

Oooor, not. But I'd like to believe so. Ahahahahaha.

Honestly, I fell into a similar situation when I realized that my efforts looked pointless when Jason reintroduced the apocalypse. At that time when I was still mostly clean, what I did was that I decided to devote myself to making sure I could at the very least pass on my knowledge to newer players, and interact with them like a family so that they'd really enjoy themselves in the game, have fun, and treat their own new player kids with the same amount of kindness and knowledge I gave them. I looked into occupations that would make people happier, like becoming a rancher and filling a town with eight horse carts, becoming a rose gardener so people could leave flowers on their relatives' graves, became a weaver and made clothes and santa hats for people to enjoy, and even being a janitor/carpenter/roadmaker and cleaning up clutter around big towns so that there would be more space for people to work with, and less stress for them to deal with.

Theeeeen I got over that. Lol.

Often, I think back to some words I've heard before. "You either die a hero, or live long enough to become a villain". Not that I was a hero by any measure mind you, but I think you get the point sort of. Either way, feeling apathetic is pretty normal and it's up to you to decide how you wanna prove to griefers that your will can't/can be broken.

Last edited by Lu (2019-02-06 08:15:31)

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#1 2019-02-05 13:05:50

Do you enjoy killing people?

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