Are all these babies really needed?

Bob 101 · 2019-02-06 11:41:23

I feel that many people are too generous towards babies. I see so many players who always seem to have a baby in there arms, They shit out ten kids.

People in towns are always berating me for leaving my babies to starve or performing snowball abortions. If the town already has a bunch of mums then I don't really feel any need to add to the population.

I'd rather kill off those leeches and be productive instead. All I'm doing is sending children off to some other town.

I'll start feeding everyone once children actually start being a benefit. It's such a waste of time to raise a bunch of kids who perform terrible and die early.

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-02-06 11:46:01)

Nepumuk · 2019-02-06 13:30:16

I'm a terrible mother in big towns. I would be okay with raising a reasonable amount of babies that are able to follow basic instructions ("stay on warm tile, baby!"). But in my experience that's just not possible. I cannot abandon any children without some random person adopting them within moments and then feeding them with the most inefficient food. Young girls especially like to do that for some reason. In fact they usually like to do that with my non-abandoned children too. I am not a dirty berry muncher, I like to put my kid on a good temp spot and then go work and periodically check on the kid. That is just not possible. I regularly see that after just 15-20 seconds someone will have grabbed my child, fed it some crap and/or brought it over to the berries.
So at some point I basically stopped caring for most of my kids. Because it really doesn't matter if I try to feed them, if I try to put them on good spot or whatever. Some other person will choose to come along and be the surrogate mother and waste way more food and time on them then it would have taken me. So why should I bother exactly? If I try to care for them it will literally just lead to more overfeeding.
If there's a snowpile near town I usually just take excess kids there and snowball them when nobody looks. Any less discreet way is bound to create incredible drama because people get so, so upset if you try to kill babies. They will curse you or kill you or at the very least start a several minute discussion which ends up wasting more time/resources than it would have cost to just raise the damn kid.

Sometimes I see these people running around complaining about mothers not taking care of their kids. "I've raised like 10 babies cause you idiots couldn't take care of them". I wish they would understand that maybe, just maybe, some mothers made an informed choice that this and that particular child wasn't worth raising and everything would be fine if you had just let them make those decisions over their own damn offspring.

So yeah... people are too generous towards babies indeed.

karltown_veteran · 2019-02-06 13:31:28

Bob 101 wrote:

I feel that many people are too generous towards babies. I see so many players who always seem to have a baby in there arms, They shit out ten kids.
People in towns are always berating me for leaving my babies to starve or performing snowball abortions. If the town already has a bunch of mums then I don't really feel any need to add to the population.
I'd rather kill off those leeches and be productive instead. All I'm doing is sending children off to some other town.

I'll start feeding everyone once children actually start being a benefit. It's such a waste of time to raise a bunch of kids who perform terrible and die early.

I agree, but some people feel strongly the opposite, and will kill people who let their babies starve

CrazyEddie · 2019-02-06 15:41:17

Every baby that is run by a good player will be a net asset to the town. Every baby run by a bad player will be a drain on the town's resources.

The number of babies is irrelevant to your stated ends. There's zero reason to kill babies "because we have too many".

You just like exercising dominance.

DestinyCall · 2019-02-06 16:07:29

If it is a decent town with a functioning compost cycle and pie surplus, then overpopulation isn't really an issue. More people just means more workers. The town won't starve, as long as the baker keeps baking. Pies are an amazing food source and new sheep produce enough mutton to feed an army of noobs.

If you are intentionally killing babies in a stable town, you are not saving that town from dooming itself. You are just being lazy and antisocial toward other players. Take some responsibility and raise your offspring. It doesn't take that much effort to name a kid, drop it on a warm spot and check back periodically while you continue your current task. If they wander off to die or if someone else adopts them, it does no lasting harm. Going out of your way to murder children is not helpful. Stop it.

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-06 18:58:06

especially now, there are no inherent overpopulation problems. If the town has an unnecessary amount of people, some should get together and start a new town.

I keep all of my babies who behave. If they run around I say "be good or I won't keep you"

Malthusianism is wholly unnecessary, though I still lack an answer as to why people are so incredibly hostile to the premise of starting new towns with the same family line. it's so damn easy to run away with a bowl of stew and find a new home.

Bob 101 · 2019-02-06 20:57:49

Here come all the "feed all babies" losers. Overpopulation is still definitely a thing, towns are run by a small few who are actually productive.

I just don't think it's fair for you to chastise me for not wanting to feed babies. It's my own personal choice, I don't want many kids.

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-02-06 21:10:49)

InSpace · 2019-02-06 20:58:50

BOB YES, MORE BOBS
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ … 1582249368

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-06 21:19:22

this is why populations die out, because no one expands and creates new villages.

People being freeloaders has nothing to do with overpopulation, it's people choosing not to find jobs. They'd be a lot more of a burden for a smaller population.

Solbusaur · 2019-02-06 21:25:11

Considering a portion of players are unable to reach fertility from starvation, I think it's ok to have a lot of kids so there is a bigger chance of your lineage continuing.

I agree that it is acceptable to abandon babies during a food production drop, or famine, since those things need your attention more

Bob 101 · 2019-02-06 21:28:05

CrazyEddie wrote:

Every baby that is run by a good player will be a net asset to the town. Every baby run by a bad player will be a drain on the town's resources.
The number of babies is irrelevant to your stated ends. There's zero reason to kill babies "because we have too many".
You just like exercising dominance.

Maybe respect opposing views rather then being a smartass?

Closes minded fuck.

happynova · 2019-02-06 22:41:11

Bob, dude, chill. If you open a discussion, you have to expect that not everybody is going to agree with you, and while I thought CrazyEddie's assertion about you just wanting to assert dominance was probably uncalled for, you are now totally acting like the kind of person he's just accused you of being, and it's not helping your case. Yeesh.

Now. My two cents on the issue is that I used to be a lot more reluctant to keep babies, but these days I will almost always only abandon them if there is a genuine and immediate concern about food shortages (usually in an early camp) or if they show signs of being trouble. (Being verbally abusive to the person you depend on to stay alive or deliberately making their life more difficult is not a smart move.)

The reason for this? It shows up all the time right there in the family tree. I can have ten kids, and every single one of them can assure me that they're an old pro at the game, and eight or nine of them will still die before adolescence. Aside from a few basic observations, there's not really any way to tell which kids are going to grow up to be useful and productive and carry on your lineage and which will starve as soon as they're forced to fend for themselves, but it you're rejecting lots of your kids, you've got good odds that you're rejecting ones you actually need. Keep as many of them as you can, and you're keeping as big a pool of actually useful people as you can. This comes at the price of feeding a lot of less-useful people until Darwin weeds them out, but a well-run town should be able to absorb that cost.

It's an evolutionary strategy, really. It's why fish lay millions of eggs, anticipating that if they do that at least a few will actually grow up into fish.

Nepumuk wrote:

Because it really doesn't matter if I try to feed them, if I try to put them on good spot or whatever. Some other person will choose to come along and be the surrogate mother and waste way more food and time on them then it would have taken me.

I've been seeing a lot of this lately, and it is pretty maddening. I was kind of wondering if it was just me, or just coincidence, or if other people were having it happen a lot, too. I had to have a very long, very frustrating conversation with a guy a few days ago explaining that I had not abandoned the freaking baby I'd just left on a warm tile for a minute and it was not now his baby, and he should not shove berries in its mouth every two seconds. He'd done that with a lot of other babies, too, and I'm still noit sure I really got through to him.

And it seems like it's not just that one person; he'sjust the most extreme example of something that's been happening a surprising amount of late. I get that new players don't necessarily have a good feel for how long you can leave a baby on a warm spot for and tend to over-feed pretty regularly, but I'm almost starting to wonder if the idea that any time you see a baby sitting by itself it's in need of immediate "saving" is starting to spread, because people see that behavior and copy it.

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-06 23:21:36

Solbusaur wrote:

Considering a portion of players are unable to reach fertility from starvation, I think it's ok to have a lot of kids so there is a bigger chance of your lineage continuing.
I agree that it is acceptable to abandon babies during a food production drop, or famine, since those things need your attention more

yeah I take good care of my babies and 2/5ths at most live to adulthood. Even in a food crisis I just run out and live in the bush and keep having babies.

It's frustrating because it's really easy to stay alive in the wilds, and often in this situation all of my kids die and i'm the only one who lives. How GD hard is it to carry a berry around.

CrazyEddie · 2019-02-07 00:06:18

Bob 101 wrote:

Maybe respect opposing views rather then being a smartass?

I call 'em like I see 'em. You're not pursuing an optimally efficient town, you're simply imposing your will on others because you can.

That's not an "opposing view" worthy of respect.

Bob 101 · 2019-02-07 00:30:42

CrazyEddie wrote:

Bob 101 wrote:
Maybe respect opposing views rather then being a smartass?
I call 'em like I see 'em. You're not pursuing an optimally efficient town, you're simply imposing your will on others because you can.
That's not an "opposing view" worthy of respect.

I'm not the one telling others to keep babies. I'm just tired of being shunned because I don't to care for every baby.

CrazyEddie · 2019-02-07 00:33:52

"snowball abortions"

DestinyCall · 2019-02-07 00:38:49

In my experience, overpopulation is a self-correcting problem.

You don't have to get your hands dirt, because if the easy food runs out, the first people who die are always the babies and the berry munchers. The majority of experienced players will be aware of the problem early enough to switch to alternative sources until the food supply stabilizes. The most vulnerable during a famine are always the very young, the very old and the very new, since they are the most dependent on easy access to a reliable food source. As soon as the berry bushes dry up, some of them will start dying and right after them will be any new mothers that overfeed their babies.

A short famine can arguably improve the overall health of a village by weeding out the "weak" players. However, I don't recommend intentionally starving a village, because whenever you have a significant population drop, there is a very real danger of the line ending, if the last fertile female dies during the crisis point. This can happen even in a well-populated town, if too many women ignore parenting duties or decide to kill off babies to "prevent overpopulation".

If your goal is growing a healthy village, babies are a valuable resource. They should be managed carefully and with the expectation that many will die early, even under ideal conditions. It is foolish to squander your baby supply, when each one of them might grow up to be a productive member of your village, given the chance. This game revolves around passing your work on to the next generation. The children are your future, quite literally.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-02-07 01:08:46)

antking:]# · 2019-02-07 01:09:29

you never know what a baby might be.. it could be a noob or a pro. its hard to see that when you can only say 3 letters....
I take care of all my children, because you never know what might happen, if their is a food shortage then with more kids I have a higher chance for my line to be carried on! and you don't want to start killing babies, especially if you don't know who they are!
how ever its your choose of how many children you want and some times limiting births is the best thing you can do! Think of our world where over population is a huge problem and yet people are still pumping three or four kids!
all in all you choose how many kids you want to have, just don't go around pointing fingers or killing babies for no reason, that's just cruel!

Last edited by antking:]# (2019-02-07 01:14:09)

Bob 101 · 2019-02-07 01:16:32

antking:]# wrote:

you never know what a baby might be.. it could be a noob or a pro. its hard to see that when you can only say 3 letters....
I take care of all my children, because you never know what might happen, if their is a food shortage then with more kids I have a higher chance for my line to be carried on! and you don't want to start killing babies, especially if you don't know who they are!

Today I started testing each kid. I intentionally made a desert bonfire and placed my babies on them. Any kid with a brain would move away, Noobs would overheat and starve.

I'm willing to admit that larger towns are able to support many babies. I'll be kinder to kids in big cities but I'll still probably dump them on another female.

antking:]# · 2019-02-07 02:00:21

Bob 101 wrote:

Today I started testing each kid. I intentionally made a desert bonfire and placed my babies on them. Any kid with a brain would move away, Noobs would overheat and starve.

I'm willing to admit that larger towns are able to support many babies. I'll be kinder to kids in big cities but I'll still probably dump them on another female.

out of curiosity how many kids averaged were noobs?

pein · 2019-02-07 12:10:57

good old topic

this game you got real people with real thoughts, and seeing their perspective helps to make the correct decisions

"that person is antisocial"- that is not a negative trait, just because more people are social, doesn't mean that the minority is worst or need to change, actually antisocial people can understand the social people, and change to be accepted, and they direct conversations, while social people often just use predictable shallow patterns to open others up, which is very annoying. if you get offended by ignorance or neutrality, the problem is with you.
antisocial people also tend to be more expert on some things, and not starting negatively generally helps in conversations
in this game, a very few people are high skilled and can make things work, while they wont really spend time on courtesy, their presence makes the difference, so be grateful for the work others do

"that person is rude"- that doesn't mean is wrong, you should focus more on the logic and less on the context, lot of people got more experience, and they already know the outcomes, idealism and positivity is nice, but it wont take you further without hard work. don't just assume that others will work harder and somehow things will turn out well. your kid, your responsibility, even after grows hair. you arent a nice person by raising kids up until they got hair, you need to produce enough food for them, teach them how to take care of themselves and others, and give them a purpose.
feeding others is nice thing? don't just assume someone is unskilled or lost, just because you are, you were, not everybody appreciates that.

"everybody deserves a chance"- no not really, i often see that bad babies tun out to be bad adults, and regret it every time
its just a common courtesy that people raise others up, because they are expecting the same from others, yet neutrality should be the norm, sure, its nice to be positive, but it goes both ways. you are a baby, you cannot help yourself, so at least behave and show that you care about efficiency, that's easily done by not doing anything. running around is disrespectful, cause you assume your mother will run after you, that you are more important that others, and more important than working, sometimes i ask the baby that if she doesn't pay attention to me, why should i do to her?

so the norm is to be a good baby, keep your temperature, ask politely, don't demand, help out on basic stuff on first few minutes

even i cant keep all babies on a busy server, there must be some filter. no double ups outside town: i wont juggle 2 babies in wilderness, it slows me down and might even kill me
the baby needs to follow when im holding something, and needs to stay put when im home and i put him/her on a good spot
yeah, some of us knows how hot is a tile with or without clothing just by looking at it, and knows how long a baby can survive without feeding
if you don't know this, you wont understand why is important
if you are inefficient as baby, you will be inefficient as an adult, all those babies who move out from a good spot, will waste food later on,sometimes you cannot afford that

so i generally pick up the baby right away once. maybe loads the game slow, maybe its first life and is slow to sit down comfortable and control the character. maybe the baby chooses to /die for whatever reason.
next step, if im ok with food and got time is to say hi, if im starving or carry something i cant really, but as baby you cant really do anything else, so just say H and go with the flow.
i generally test if the kid can follow me up, i really hate babies who expect me to carry them around, nobody is that important, i don't think im that important.
next is temperature, when i stop and put the kid on a good warm spot, standing there saves both of us food and time.
if it still follows, i know is a newbee, its ok once, i even warn them, sometimes after 8 babies i get angry, but you can just say "sry"
if they are arude about it or still don't behave i let them starve, its kinda minimum to me, that if i say something, they will do it, for the first minutes, if i waste 3 minutes on them, they should do the same, get me firewood or eggs or anything (actually even alleria pulled the moving baby thing one me but then stopped after warning )
i especially hate those who come back and grief your camp of letting them starve
i even kill them again if i know they are the same kid cause those babies mean trouble
you lose 1 minute of your life, i don't mind that either, if they don't want me i don't force it

if you play this game long enough you get bored of this aspect so don't just assume someone is asshole for o reason, the nicest moms tend to be total newbies and dumb and the best ones don't really talk just throw you on a spot and feed you a few times, criticising others for their choices wont really change their opinion, over time most people will realize how to be more efficient and will do the same, or will stuck at the same level and wont realize why nothing works

back when the game started, people skill was low, and keeping all babies was bad, with jungle and desert you can raise a baby with 3 feedings only, this requires that you raise babies on a good spot, and the baby says F the right time (2-3 bars), a decent player can tend for himself and a few other, its bare minimum that you scavenge for your own food or produce enough to feed yourself, being a sponge to colonies is very selfish and negative, so don't wonder if you are let to be starved or killed for it, if you show the signs

more babies wont mean more production, but surely will mean more consumption, so know your skill, how much you can feed alone, generally that means 2-3, so eventually wouldn't be that bad to ask others if they think you can keep more babies, you make more hungry mouths, it will decrease the overall age expectancy, it will cause famine, be nice to the 10 year old kid who works his ass off, not to 0 age baby who didn't proved anything
and its not your baby, its a baby for the camp, you shouldn't decide for others
also if yo udo nothing you might as well raise other kids
there is no genetics involved, your mom might be a giefer, if does nothing but complains how rude is the guy who is busy producing stuff
and the other abandoned kid might be a pro player left alone by a newbee mother

that's why i don't gear babies based on relation, i might be bored and i know we got enough gear and i give some clothing to my kids, but generally i tell them the emergency plan, and i will give packs and aprons only if they are decent and hard worker, there can be totally unrelated kids, i will threat them good if they work hard
that is my other pet peeve, when kids go to making a blade and kill a productive member just because their lazy mother told them to
i tend to stab this kids and mothers if they are acting behind others back

also more females doesn't mean longer lineage, you don't need 10 girls for a lineage to go on
sure, as eve, especially with animals around you might need every of them, but if you got a camp going on, after 3 baby girls, the rest becomes useless. it can lead to a famine 14 minutes later, so if you don't control population, and you don't tell them to do so, things will get out of hand
boys on other hand, cant have babies, and can do risky jobs without interruption, so they arent that much of a risk
so this "keep all females " strategy is bad, boots lineage communicated over voice chat, you wont do that on public server, and you wont come back if the server has high pop
and its generally a sign of low intelligence and low expectation (funny that they got high hopes but they don't trust the only girl to be decent)
if im a girl, and already working, i don't need 8 more sisters
i had a run where we don't even ahd a camp and when i made one my mother brought 5 girls on my neck and they ruined everything in 2 minutes then even cursed me

you cant know beforehand, you need 1 girl who will reach older age, then you can stop having kids on your own, go explore and abandon some kids
you need a second girl for reserve. maybe a third. but 4 is just overkill. especially if your kid has some in the meantime. just try to ask others if you not sure. generally is 7 when things start to go downhill. 7 fertile females pump out so many babies over and over, generally the same who just starved because is dumb/lazy/both, and the next famine will wipe the camp.
meanwhile a small family can survive on lower food production

so make tools, farm first, and extend gadually
a good number is like 4 people before a farm (carrot and/or berry)
around 6-8 before having axe
afte having a pen and iron mine, there is no reason ot to keep all babies
but you might need a fallback outpost/secodn city, to split the load
around 15 people can run a city, and keep it ordered

if you overextend before having water/compost/meat, you just force others out, increase stress and people gonna lure bears and kill each other

the general attitude should be more positive, teach the babies to be productive and obedient at first few minutes at least and do yourself the same
teach them temperature, the importance of sparing on resources
things get hectic and stressful, and if you cant handle stress then you arent good enough to be on charge of the decisions, true leaders are ready to make the hard choices, and only weak people keep grudge and decide based on emotions.
i tend to get pissed and murder people for it but i will forget them in 2 minutes and get back to my own business.
people got their preference and their own style, i get it, i might not agree, and they will realize over time that they were wrong about things after they see more examples. generally people get burned out after a while and complain on everything, but if you don't care about consequences, why yo u care about decisions?

Bob 101 · 2019-02-07 14:24:24

antking:]# wrote:

Bob 101 wrote:

Today I started testing each kid. I intentionally made a desert bonfire and placed my babies on them. Any kid with a brain would move away, Noobs would overheat and starve.

I'm willing to admit that larger towns are able to support many babies. I'll be kinder to kids in big cities but I'll still probably dump them on another female.
out of curiosity how many kids averaged were noobs?

Recently I got 2 confirmed noobs. I asked them if they were new, Both said "N" but neither was smart enough to move from fire.

Lying fucks.

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-02-07 14:24:52)

CrazyEddie · 2019-02-07 16:18:17

The first thing any noob learns is to lie when asked "are you new", because of assholes and idiots who kill them when they answer truthfully.

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-07 16:23:27

It's not that challenging to keep two babies alive in the wild. It's also not that challenging to feed a camp if people are actually working. With people actually doing compost, berries, pies, and meat you can create a massive surplus.

The volume of people is not the problem, it's the people who don't contribute, and even so, this can tolerate a moderate amount of freeloaders, but most of them want to help if assigned a task.

Food just isn't that scarce of an item, not starving is pretty damn easy.

MultiLife · 2019-02-07 20:54:06

*laughs in second gen*

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-02-06 11:41:23

Are all these babies really needed?

#2 2019-02-06 13:30:16

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#3 2019-02-06 13:31:28

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#4 2019-02-06 15:41:17

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#5 2019-02-06 16:07:29

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#6 2019-02-06 18:58:06

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#7 2019-02-06 20:57:49

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#8 2019-02-06 20:58:50

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#9 2019-02-06 21:19:22

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#10 2019-02-06 21:25:11

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#11 2019-02-06 21:28:05

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#12 2019-02-06 22:41:11

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#13 2019-02-06 23:21:36

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#14 2019-02-07 00:06:18

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#15 2019-02-07 00:30:42

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#16 2019-02-07 00:33:52

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#17 2019-02-07 00:38:49

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#18 2019-02-07 01:09:29

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#19 2019-02-07 01:16:32

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#20 2019-02-07 02:00:21

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#21 2019-02-07 12:10:57

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#22 2019-02-07 14:24:24

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#23 2019-02-07 16:18:17

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#24 2019-02-07 16:23:27

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

#25 2019-02-07 20:54:06

Re: Are all these babies really needed?

Board footer