Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

Nepumuk · 2019-02-07 13:12:34

So this is a thing that's been bothering me for a while: completely inexperienced players in eve camps or even trying to Eve themselves. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Why pick the hardest, least forgiving way of playing when you haven't yet learned the ropes?

It's not an accident either, on a stable server you hardly just spawn into eve camps. You basically need to get lineage banned from all the towns first (where you should actually be playing and learning as a newbie) to spawn there, so why do they do it?

They ruin many of my starts and they are simultaneously unproductive and rude when called out on it. It just baffles me.

It's an eve camp, if you cannot contribute then why are you here, in the wilderness, trying to survive? Spawn in a town, please. Learn about the game a bit. I do not have time to teach you for twenty minutes, nor do I have the resources to fix all the things you are breaking. You really don't need to be the best player out there, I certainly am not, but please at least be able to pull your own weight!

Last edited by Nepumuk (2019-02-07 13:18:27)

Tea · 2019-02-07 15:10:02

No they don't necessarily need to get lineage banned from all the towns to be born to an Eve. It's pretty random and I hardly believe that a new player knows about the /die or has the zoom-out mod.

I understand that it is frustrating to have new players as your kids while you try to start a base. But aren't you a little bit impatient as well ? Yes a new player should do the tutorial first and maybe be born to a bigger town to learn some basics but can't you show it to them too ?

Ask if your kid is new and put them next to the kiln to show them how to make a fire, make clay bowls and plates and how to make a farm. Ask them to gather some branches, give them a bowl and tell them to fill it with berries. If they are smart enough, then they will come back with materials and be a big help for you.

If you really don't want anything to do with new players, then use Tarr's Guide on how to detect a new player and let them starve.

My Sister started to play this game a month ago and she loves it. I've played with her a couple of times, showed her farming and some basic stuff. Then she started to play alone and after a while was born as an Eve. Now she was not experienced enough to know how to Eve on her own but she somehow managed.

When I checked on her, she was still alive, tending a small berry farm in a decent spot with some babies around her while her sons ran around and did stuff. She was happy. "I'm tending our little berries", she said when I sat next to her. "My sons are so intelligent!", she said with pride. She showed some kids how to farm and died of old age.

What I want to say by this little story is that even inexperienced player can do Eve runs. Yes they likely not survive but does that really matter since you can just start a new life within seconds. I learned more on my first Eve Run than in a big town where the basic stuff (Hatchet, Fire Bow Drill, Fire, etc.) was already there.

You were new once too and others had to live with your mistakes as well

Nepumuk · 2019-02-07 16:01:05

You said it yourself, a new player should have done the tutorial and spent time in bigger towns and learned the basics. But they didn't put in the effort... so I don't think it's fair to ask me to put in the effort for them.

If a newbie wants to Eve I can just suicide right out of there and go somewhere else, if newbies spawn into my camp it literally drags down the camp.

I was new once too but I did a bunch of reading and learning from the beginning and I think I started becoming at least self-sufficient within a few days, really. I didn't just rely on other people to explain it all to me and I think expecting other players to do all the teaching so you can skip out on the learning is incredibly lazy.

denriguez · 2019-02-07 16:13:03

Tea wrote:

I learned more on my first Eve Run than in a big town where the basic stuff (Hatchet, Fire Bow Drill, Fire, etc.) was already there.

This is the reason I loved playing as Eve or in early stage camps when I was new, and still prefer it today, even if I don't play very often anymore. When I was inexperienced, I was able to learn so much about the fundamentals of the game by watching Eve or through trial-and-error. I know this game isn't very forgiving of trial-and-error, but the experience one builds while making mistakes in early stage camps makes for very skilled Eves later. Imagine if you never had to bootstrap a kiln and a forge, because you're always born into a city with plenty of them. Imagine you never had to learn that you can till a row with a skewer, because there have always been steel hoes in your cities. How will you know how to do any of that when you inevitably are tasked with doing so yourself one day as Eve? Similarly, when are you ever given the opportunity to *teach* these skills except for in an early camp? If you have newbies in your Eve camp, TAKE the time to teach your kids, even just one small thing. They'll still make mistakes, but it's your choice whether or not to be annoyed. Don't call them out in self-righteousness--teach them, humbly. If you want a perfect Eve run, play with friends on a private server.

Just last night I was born into an Eve camp during what I suspect was a series of server resets. My family died out entirely and I never had a single kid. Instead of suiciding, I took the opportunity to get that camp as far as I could on my own, not having done a true Eve run in months. You would be appalled at how many times I had to fire the kiln/forge just to get the first axe out. First I forgot to make the bellows, then I made the bellows but forgot to fire the nozzle, then I didn't have a short shaft for the hammer... it was a comedy of errors, and a really efficient player probably would've been annoyed. And this is me, having logged more than 200 hours over the last 11 months. I'm experienced, but I'm always learning and improving. So are you, so are your kids, so are we all.

DestinyCall · 2019-02-07 16:20:07

As a new player, you really have no control on where you are born or who your mother might be. If you are totally new, you probably have no idea that you are in an Eve camp or how you got there. There is nothing preventing a new player from being born to an Eve compared with being born in a small village or a large town. You don't need to be lineage banned for this to happen, since Eves are not considered any different from any other mother when babies are assigned.

As far as a new player being born as an Eve ... this happens less often on higher population servers, but it can and does still happen by random chance. I was born as an Eve on the same day that I started playing OHOL. I had no idea what I was doing and died rather quickly, along with all the babies I was fruitlessly trying to keep alive. When server population drops during slow times or if the new player have been playing for a few hours, it is more common. Most new players do not have any grasp of how Eve spawning or lineage bans work yet. If they are total noobs, it is very unlikely that they are really doing anything on purpose. They are just reacting to forces that are outside of their control or understanding. Usually, they are doing the best they can with very limited information and hardly any grasp of the complex game mechanics that interact with their decisions. This can create headaches for more efficiency-minded veteran players, but it is a natural and important part of learning how to play OHOL. Even if you watch Lets Play videos and read the wiki to understand the general idea, it does not necessarily mean that you are experienced enough to make smart decisions and prioritize effectively on your own. Sometimes you just have to do it yourself and fail a few times (or a few dozen times).

Eve camps are difficult places to live and learn for new players, but if you take the time to teach them how to do a simple task, the majority of new players will be grateful and productive. They might lack experience, but they do not lack the ability to learn and the desire to help the village survive. Treat them with a little kindness and provide a few basic words of instruction to help them help you. You do not need to drop everything and focus all your attention on teaching them how to play the game, but telling them what you need the most right now or giving them a simple task can go a long way to making them useful ("Please gather lots of branches from trees for the fire", "put dirt and water on the berry bushes to help them grow", "we need more clay, gather with basket from swamp" etc). Chances are very good that they will die while helping out, but since the other major way to deal with new players in Eve camps is to just let them starve as a baby if they fail a temp test, giving them a useful task and seeing how long they last is a more humane option that can work out in your favor. And it means that the next time they get born into an Eve camp, they will be a little less useless to their struggling mother.

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-07 16:29:18

i've helped out Eve moms that were noobs. If the first daughter is competent, she can make it a productive line. The big problem is people are so obsessed with last names- which don't matter- so if the mom is nameless the family line is in trouble for no bigger reason than people refusing to play in a nameless dynasty.

Anyway, the bigger thing here, is you want to talk shit about noobs playing in Eve camps, but people also talk shit about how they don't learn the basic skills if they play in bigger camps. When are they gonna learn to make fire from nothing? The necessities of starting a camp, etc.

I've been meaning to start telling my babies its ok if they're a noob, because clearly people kill for the answer "yes" so everyone is scared to say that.

pein · 2019-02-07 17:38:05

they do stay even if i tell them to
i tell them it will be hard, i tell them don't stay if you don't take it seriously
i ask them if they are new
general reaction is that they stay anyway

then ask for a fricking job
like you got no tools, no oven, no axe
no bushes
isn't it obvious that you need to gather food, clay, branches, iron? that's the gameplay 100% time
you dont make pies, you dot make packs, you don't make stew, you don't make roads, you don't make bow, you don't get pigs, you don't plant wheat and milkweed, you don't cook eggs and let the fire out

you make bowls, small farm, tools, then you can give jobs, if you don't go out of camp you are useless, if you are useless than don't stay on an eve run, if you don't make at least a kiln, fire tools and bowls, isn't your eve run
i just hate smartasses who settle in middle of geen, plant one potato and tell you to water that field all your life while they pump out 10 more kids

austin_beale · 2019-02-08 00:32:48

everyone needs to learn....
I tell kids its an eve camp and ask if they wanna stay.
I tell them they need to work and if they don't want to then they should leave.
If they are new I point them to the forum and tell them to look up peins tutorials and try to teach them what I can.
It doesn't take long to show some one how to collect sticks and other resources.
We were all new once, and we should work harder to make new players feel comfortable and welcome so the game doesn't die.

I guess my point is let the noobs play!!!!! and that noob will eventually be able to make his own eve camp... but i guess then he'll get on here and complain about the noobs ruining his camps lol

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-08 04:18:44

this also drives me crazy, when people don't know how to gather. If you're in a new camp and it isn't obvious what to do, grab a berry and go look for basket materials, and then gather. Even just running back with 3 berries to set on the ground can be crucial to allow people to stay at the camp long enough to accomplish something.

WalrusesConquer · 2019-02-08 06:33:38

Stop complaining about last names. They do matter. We had a griefer from another village but no one knew he was an outsider because he also had no name.

Nepumuk · 2019-02-08 06:52:23

I see myself as Eve, the creator of the camp and I feel responsible for setting things up so that the future generations can actually survive. Long term survival is my main goal. I have a set of tasks and I need to do them in a limited time and if I don't, the camp most likely dies out.
You're suggesting that I take time out of these tasks and devote them to teaching people. I could do that. But it would mean that absolutely essential stuff doesn't get done.
I can see that there's a trade off where teaching increases productivity and I'm ok with trying to go for a bit more teaching. I'm just not willing to do it at the cost of the camp's future.

I guess this made me realize that I am not building my camps for newbies to live in. I build them for people that at least know how to survive. Maybe newbie isn't even the right word. I mean unwilling-to-learn-people. Because a newbie that is willing to learn can stop being a newbie within a day or two. A person unwilling to learn never advances from the newbie state, basically. And those are the kind of people I don't want to waste my time on and I don't think that's gonna change.

denriguez · 2019-02-08 14:07:09

Nepumuk wrote:

You're suggesting that I take time out of these tasks and devote them to teaching people. I could do that. But it would mean that absolutely essential stuff doesn't get done.
I can see that there's a trade off where teaching increases productivity and I'm ok with trying to go for a bit more teaching. I'm just not willing to do it at the cost of the camp's future.

I don't think anyone is saying you need to teach them every mechanic, every crafting recipe, every nuanced efficiency consideration; rather, if noobs are willing to learn, let them stay and help, and maybe teach them one little thing--how to keep berries alive, for example, or how to build a fire. If they die, that's how it goes; if they massively screw things up or do wasteful, unnecessary things, that's more a consequence of bad leadership, not inexperienced players.

Whenever I have an Eve run or start an outpost outside of a big city, the first thing I do when my kids can feed themselves is ask them if they can make a basket. If they say they can, I tell them to go and come back with one. If they say they can't, I show them how. Either way, another basket is almost always needed, and it won't be a complete waste of my time if I have to teach them how to do it. Once they have a basket, then I just tell them to start gathering food or branches or clay while I do the more essential things and raise the other kids. In time, that kid will grow and will be able to at least watch me do a few things or ask questions of their more competent siblings.

Keep your kids, give them straightforward, simple tasks, and thank them for helping when they do. Explain simple things if you have a second. If they screw up, gently correct them--never yell or make them feel bad. (Compare "omfg why'd u put two kindling on that fire?" to "We need to save kindling, so only add kindling to coals, never to fire.") Most people perceive yelling as a threat, which throws our brains into fight-or-flight mode, shutting down our learning faculties. Everyone can contribute, and no one will learn if we're impatient or insist that noobs aren't useful in Eve camps.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-08 15:07:51

fragilityh14 wrote:

this also drives me crazy, when people don't know how to gather. If you're in a new camp and it isn't obvious what to do, grab a berry and go look for basket materials, and then gather. Even just running back with 3 berries to set on the ground can be crucial to allow people to stay at the camp long enough to accomplish something.

It's better to gather onions or bananas or cactus fruit. Also, burdock if you know about a sharp stone, which the tutorial does teach you. I have sometimes complained to my children if they bring home berries in a basket to speak honestly. Now I will only complain to my children about getting berries in a basket if we don't have a clay bowl. If a single clay bowl lies around, berries should simply not get gathered in a basket. Berries not in a clay bowl decay within a certain time period. So, berries on the ground might go to waste if they do not get eaten or split into seeds immediately, and since berries take 12 minutes to grow, while corn, carrots, and green beans take only 4 minutes to grow, growing corn, carrots, or green beans can work better if players know how to eat those foods.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-08 15:41:48

Nepumuk wrote:

I see myself as Eve, the creator of the camp and I feel responsible for setting things up so that the future generations can actually survive. Long term survival is my main goal. I have a set of tasks and I need to do them in a limited time and if I don't, the camp most likely dies out.
You're suggesting that I take time out of these tasks and devote them to teaching people. I could do that. But it would mean that absolutely essential stuff doesn't get done.
I can see that there's a trade off where teaching increases productivity and I'm ok with trying to go for a bit more teaching. I'm just not willing to do it at the cost of the camp's future.
I guess this made me realize that I am not building my camps for newbies to live in. I build them for people that at least know how to survive. Maybe newbie isn't even the right word. I mean unwilling-to-learn-people. Because a newbie that is willing to learn can stop being a newbie within a day or two. A person unwilling to learn never advances from the newbie state, basically. And those are the kind of people I don't want to waste my time on and I don't think that's gonna change.

Two stories:

My first, what I would call 'successful', Eve run I only had one girl as I recall who I fed. She told me she was new. I said that's o. k. She helped me build a farm. The settlement lasted 20 generations, and I saw someone else play that family later on, on Twitch. They had a pump and he thought they were doing super well. I didn't make steel tools, and I'm not sure I even got any iron. I hadn't made any steel tools myself then in any situation as I recall, and even if I had, I think the farming and food approach first (I cooked eggs and usually do) was the right thing to do (I think I went boar hunting some also... I knew about that problem).

I had a spot where I had multiple children. I think my first children told me she was new and asked 'where is food?'. I showed her the banana bushes which were virtually on top of. She asked me what to do, so I told her to get branches, preferably a pump beam kit. I really just wanted enough kindling for the first fire and that was it. She brings home I think four branches, but they are somehow yew branches... the best to pick if doing them one at a time! Then she asks me what else. I wanted like 3 more clay before I started clay firing, and was still in the process of getting ready. She then tells me that she can't get any clay, because she's not old enough. I'm completely confused and go with her to the clay pit. She's trying to use a basket to empty it out, because, I guess, it looks somewhat like a fertile soil pit. So I tell her to use her hand. She then uses one of the baskets I made (I always try to get my children some baskets... I've learned it best to try to make a basket in the same trip as when I go out to the swamp for clay or adobe... though for a while I may have just been making a basket for each new child), and brings home more than enough clay that I could fire... and I will almost invariably let the first fire go out and cook eggs. What happened with the colony? I got reborn like a dozen or so generations later, and the settlement is doing fine. Some other family actually came by and joined my family at some point in the settlement, and they don't seem to have any major problems.

Sure, if you have all new players as children, your lineage probably ends up doomed. But even then not necessarily. All families need in this game is security from animals that can kill you and the ability to keep their pip bars above zero. I suspect that you take a blacksmithing approach to being an Eve, so I'll write the following with that in mind. Your children can't build a farm, suggesting them as newbies? Adapt. Forget about getting any branches beyond when you need for the first fire. Fire up a clay nozzle and two bowls... that's it..., and get started on farming if you feel concerned about their skill level (I did it once when my first child threw soil right above my kiln before I had made a fire). Forget gathering iron, let alone making an axe as an Eve. It isn't like the axe will substantial use if the fire goes out anyways. A shovel? But that won't have enough value until stones get collected (sure digging up tule stumps is nice and the nearby soil pit early, but neither is as bad as your children starving). And a shovel isn't necessary until all nearby ponds dry out or can't get found. Build them a farm and hope someone figures out how to eat or to tend to it, and hope their children can clean up or improve any mess. Get wild food for them also.

And finally, there is no set of tasks that you must get done for your lineage to survive. There exist Eves with decent families who don't even build a kiln, let alone fire clay. Haven't you heard of the 'child Eve' start? Basically in that you're the daughter of some Eve and she dies early. She might not even have a sharp stone. Her lineage still survives, because her daughter has a daughter who lives or she finds a spot and builds something with her children.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-02-08 15:42:18)

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-08 18:54:42

WalrusesConquer wrote:

Stop complaining about last names. They do matter. We had a griefer from another village but no one knew he was an outsider because he also had no name.

You do realize when you hover over them to see the name, it also tells you if they're related, right? So literally, in the time it takes to find out if they have your last name, you find out if they're in your family, whether or not they have a name.

Nepumuk · 2019-02-09 12:50:52

I kind of feel I got enough input/feedback by now to understand why newbies play in eve camps and I will take some things into consideration in the future. So thanks everyone for giving their views, it did make me realize some things.

Other than that all I got left to say is: posting several times in a row is something I see as very bad form in forums. There is an edit button. Please use it. This goes especially to Spoonwood, who I have seen posting as much as three times in a row in some threads. Cheers.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-02-07 13:12:34

Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#2 2019-02-07 15:10:02

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#3 2019-02-07 16:01:05

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#4 2019-02-07 16:13:03

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#5 2019-02-07 16:20:07

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#6 2019-02-07 16:29:18

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#7 2019-02-07 17:38:05

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#8 2019-02-08 00:32:48

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#9 2019-02-08 04:18:44

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#10 2019-02-08 06:33:38

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#11 2019-02-08 06:52:23

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#12 2019-02-08 14:07:09

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#13 2019-02-08 15:07:51

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#14 2019-02-08 15:41:48

Re: Total newbies should not play in Eve camps

#15 2019-02-08 18:54:42

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#16 2019-02-09 12:50:52

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