Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

Oblong · 2019-02-14 19:12:39

Seeing the talk in the Discord server recently, I decided to bring it over here for your opinions.

What is your opinion of RP in this game? What about people who constantly demand or try to control others? Hardcore or new players who ignore everyone else to do their own business? People who grief, whether for fun, doing it by accident, or to ruin a lineage? Do you think there are any rules in this game, community-imposed or not? Why?

Last edited by Oblong (2019-02-14 19:35:14)

Booklat1 · 2019-02-14 19:32:45

Oblong wrote:

Hardcore players who ignore everyone else to do their own business?

Im much more concerned by noobs doing so, which happens much, much more often. What's the worse a good player can do when striving for a personal project? Make too many spare resources?

Ellesanna · 2019-02-14 19:39:10

Almost all forms of griefing are heavily stigmatized and disliked by the community as it is seen as ruining the fun for everyone else. Speaking from personal experience, nothing kills me more than seeing all the hardwork of me and other players being undone by one bored guy who decided his 10 minutes fun was more important than literally everyone else's. If they're new and are accidentally 'griefing' as it were, I try to be more sympathetic but its hard to when you can't always tell if they're a noob or simply an asshole. Plus, theres only so many times you can explain to new players how to tend to berry bushes and not be a bunch of berry munchers without losing your goddamn mind. Like seriously, how do some of these people get through the tutorial?
As for rpers, I actually like rp but I think with how the game is currently set up, it isn't a very good game for it. I mean one would think a game based on surviving with your family would be a good rp rich enviroment, and it is, but it takes so much time to do much of a rp that by the time anything meaningful might be obtained story-wise, you're old and dying or your town is dead as people were just eating food while talking instead of working. Don't get me wrong, I have done some light rp in between doing tasks and that can be quite fun and adds a little more to the game, but due to the fact you must be constantly moving up the tech tree to avoid doom for you and your lineage you can only do so much. The best time to rp is when there is already no hope for your lineage to continue and you and your uncle and distant cousin just dick around together until ya die, as you aren't hurting anyone in that scenario.
As for those overcontrolling folks. I get where they're coming from and understand their frustration, I really do, but some people really do need to chill and remember that this is just a game and that everything we do in it will ultimately end up being pointless unless what we did in our lives touched the lives of other players- either through being effective in our work and allowing other future players to survive to adulthood and experience a fulfilling life or making a crappy pun after the third baby suicided or helping a new player figure out how to farm or bake. Cause everything that happens in OHOL either dies or gets wiped out at one point or another, the only thing that lasts are the memories made.
Hardcore players are just players who have fun differently than others are the backbone of many great civs, I don't understand them and sometimes think some of them are a bit over the top controlling but I respect them for what they're trying to do and their dedication. Some of them do need to realize that not everyone is going to have that same level of dedication and learn to be okay with that.
As for community rules, there are a few obvious ones that come to mind:
1. Do not kill all the sheep
2. Do not carry a knife out and about (wear a backpack or apron or ask someone to lend you one)
3. Do not carry a loaded bow out and about for no apparent reason
4. Do not abuse your power of having a weapon EX: threatening other people with death for not doing something exactly as you wanted it
5. Do not use the shovel to bury people, this is wasteful
6. Avoid eating carrots in advance civs, they're used for fertilizer
7. Do not hide the bucket(s), they're needed to draw water from deep wells
8. If someone is clearly gathering resources to craft something, do not move their stuff or get in the way or take their stuff EX: rabbit pelts for a backpack or iron for a smithy
9. Do not steal kids
10. Do not kill babies/children (this one may not apply for all communities, but for a lot of them this is a huge taboo)
11. Snowballs. No.
12. Do not lure bears to settlements, like honestly why?
13. The only people who like Monarchies are the Monarchs
These are of course just to name a few.

Last edited by Ellesanna (2019-02-14 19:45:25)

Halfkoreangamer · 2019-02-14 19:58:33

The big problem is any definition of griefing is a construct of someones opinion because there are no hard rules in game.

You can say I THINK the following behaviors are griefing but you cannot say they ARE because there is no law.

Once this is understood people should be able to do what they want with their short one hour life. Do not feel pressured to do ANYTHING ever. If you get stabbed for it... its ok move on and try again. (Or just stab or snowball the guy that wont let you play your game!)

Before you tell someone what to do ask yourself:
Who are you to tell someone what to do and why?
Why kill them over something that does not directly effect your enjoyment of the game?
Why not let other people fulfill THEIR DREAM of what their hour should be?

Just because someone does not play YOUR game does not make them noob, griefe, RP berry eater ect

If someone wants to waste a shovel making a beautiful graveyard who CARES. If that was THEIR DREAM who am I to care so much that I will stop them? If someone wants 30 Yum and grows and shovels potato who cares man.

Your children and the children of others are not your property. They live their own lives with their own desires. Why not respect that?
The world needs all types of people, different strokes for different folks.

Note: Using my same argument for the controlling people justifies their playstyle too.
You are under no obligation to have their goals. YOU DONT HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM!

Last edited by Halfkoreangamer (2019-02-14 20:29:35)

MultiLife · 2019-02-14 20:12:56

Oblong wrote:

What is your opinion of RP in this game?

It's fine. There are different levels of RP. Worst I've seen has been sex RP.

Oblong wrote:

What about people who constantly demand or try to control others?

They are silly. Fighting a losing battle, "trying to herd cats".

Oblong wrote:

Hardcore or new players who ignore everyone else to do their own business?

Feel free to do what you want, but don't be surprised when you get killed or cursed. Nobody is obligated to help the town, but everyone should do something nice as a thanks to the people enabling them to do their projects.

Oblong wrote:

People who grief, whether for fun, doing it by accident, or to ruin a lineage?

You don't grief by accident. That's not the definition of griefing.
Griefers who grief for fun are selfish and immature. Griefers who grief to ruin a lineage are ridiculous.
Griefer:
Purposefully shooting or otherwise sabotaging your teammates in an online game. Heavy emphasis on purposefully. You don't grief accidentally, that's just you making mistakes.

Oblong wrote:

Do you think there are any rules in this game, community-imposed or not? Why?

No real rules, but some in-game instructions to follow to make surviving easier, developing faster and places more prosperous. I wouldn't really call them rules, but then again people do enforce them and demand others to follow them. Not sure how I'd explain rules. I see OHOL as quite a wild west, kept together by good people, occasionally scrambled by bad people.

Lily · 2019-02-14 20:27:08

Halfkoreangamer wrote:

The big problem is any definition of griefing is a construct of someones opinion because there are no hard rules in game.
You can say I THINK the following behaviors are griefing but you cannot say they ARE because there is no law.

I disagree, since griefing is basically defined as trying to piss people off on purpose. So it is pretty clear what is griefing or not, based on their intention. You know killing people will piss them off, so if you kill someone for no real reason, then you are griefing. If you go around destroying tools for the sake of destroying them so others can't use them then that is clearly griefing.

There is some grey area, when you do something that is likely to piss people off but you feel there is a good reason for it. However, most cases of griefing are pretty clear cut.

Oblong · 2019-02-14 20:33:03

MultiLife wrote:

You don’t grief by accident.

Er, I guess the word I was looking for was unintentionally. Doing too many mistakes that people label you as a griefer.

Halfkoreangamer · 2019-02-14 20:35:18

Except you cannot gauge intention through a computer screen.

You have no idea if the guy is doing something to make you mad or someone else mad.
Maybe he hates the town itself. People getting mad is just a side effect of his hate for the city.
I have no idea what will make you mad. I could do something with good intentions but it was perceived by someone as ill intentions.

If there was a 10 commandments of life in OHOL or something you guys would have a case.

MultiLife · 2019-02-14 20:46:12

We will never know 100% was someone a griefer or not (unless they say they are). They might have been purposefully damaging a place, or they were clueless about the harm they did.
If they purposefully damaged the place=griefer.
If they unintentionally damaged the place=not a griefer, no matter what people say.
Everyone has the freedom to decide who they see as griefers in-game, because we can never tell for sure. However, saying someone is a griefer means you have decided they are doing harm purposefully from your point of view. If you can't say they did it with purpose, you shouldn't call them a griefer. But people throw the term around and it loses its meaning.

Oblong wrote:

MultiLife wrote:
You don’t grief by accident.
Er, I guess the word I was looking for was unintentionally. Doing too many mistakes that people label you as a griefer.

Well okay, so people who someone may call a griefer (falsely). I just want to be clear that a player who is labeled as a griefer because they cause harm is wrong, because it has to be a player who intentionally causes harm.
But yes, my opinion on people who unintentionally cause harm with griefer-level damage;
they're fine, but if they keep doing it, they should be stopped. If they can't be stopped (no response, or they outright refuse to stop), people are free to kill/curse them with no regret. If you are harmful, you are harmful, that's all.

Once I had a life where a girl like this got stabbed; she was just a total noob, clueless, although she was responsive. She just kept doing massive mistakes in high population low gen camp (cut down multiple important trees nearby, stood in front of smith, took tools, got salt water, put berries in baskets etc.). Some suspected she was playing dumb, some thought she was just terribly new. Nobody took time to teach her, but she kept trying things and it usually ended in damage. Someone stabbed her while I was away (gathering iron to chill by myself since she screwed my smithing with her head in the way all the time) and I was honestly glad she wasn't there anymore. Could smith again. Although someone was instantly after the woman who stabbed the clueless girl.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-02-14 21:12:47)

artio · 2019-02-14 21:40:16

i've been playing for a while (150+ hours) and at this point it's hard to play with others. i think with seniority you start to notice all the ways that people actively try to grief. when i was a newbie, i'd never think to look for 'missing' tools behind trees, but i certainly do that now...

there are a couple 'rules' which i hear a lot. for example: always leave one berry on a bush, always leave one sheep unshorn, and don't cut down important trees... not necessarily true in all situations, but good advice to newbies

Booklat1 · 2019-02-14 22:20:17

artio wrote:

i've been playing for a while (150+ hours) and at this point it's hard to play with others. i think with seniority you start to notice all the ways that people actively try to grief. when i was a newbie, i'd never think to look for 'missing' tools behind trees, but i certainly do that now...
there are a couple 'rules' which i hear a lot. for example: always leave one berry on a bush, always leave one sheep unshorn, and don't cut down important trees... not necessarily true in all situations, but good advice to newbies

the whole "keep the last berry on a bush" is an old myth. The faster you take all berries from a domestic bush the faster it may be reset. Wid berries always regenerate one berry a time, despite taking the last one or not, so it's usually just polite to leave one berry in case someone else would starve and sees it. If you are starving yourself just eat the berry and chill, ya know?

Tarr · 2019-02-14 22:28:41

I mean when it comes to people ignoring most the city to do their own thing it can be for multiple different reasons. If you don't know by now I do a lot of testing on updates to make sure the things work properly for other players. Obviously Jason does his own testing but sometimes different things slip through you wouldn't think about.

When dogs were released for example we noticed that pregnant dogs were coded to have a deadlyDistance which means they injure people. Upon actually breeding dogs we found out that none of them actually seemed to do this which is apparently what Jason intended. HOWEVER, one dog specifically ignored this rule. Pitbulls would either be pregnant or be having puppies and cause invisible wounds. Obviously stuff like this has to be fixed otherwise people start dying and no one knows how or why. Weirdly even dead semi-tame wolves were biting people.

How about railways? Did you know on an east-west track if you clicked a railcart multiple times it would crash itself and delete the track under itself?This is something that specifically only worked with that variant as the north-south wasn't effected by the bug. There's some things people don't think about trying until you let the players get their hands on it to mess around with.

I'm pretty good about learning to replicate bugs whenever someone reports them or I accidentally stumble upon them. Teleporters, writing on items, and PHS (Pig hands syndrome) are all some of my favorite bugs we've had. I find it more important to fool around with the new content when it comes out than to socialize or focus on things like the berry bushes.

ruanna · 2019-02-15 09:36:26

Halfkoreangamer wrote:

The big problem is any definition of griefing is a construct of someones opinion because there are no hard rules in game.
You can say I THINK the following behaviors are griefing but you cannot say they ARE because there is no law.
Once this is understood people should be able to do what they want with their short one hour life. Do not feel pressured to do ANYTHING ever. If you get stabbed for it... its ok move on and try again. (Or just stab or snowball the guy that wont let you play your game!)
Before you tell someone what to do ask yourself:
Who are you to tell someone what to do and why?
Why kill them over something that does not directly effect your enjoyment of the game?
Why not let other people fulfill THEIR DREAM of what their hour should be?
Just because someone does not play YOUR game does not make them noob, griefe, RP berry eater ect
If someone wants to waste a shovel making a beautiful graveyard who CARES. If that was THEIR DREAM who am I to care so much that I will stop them? If someone wants 30 Yum and grows and shovels potato who cares man.
Your children and the children of others are not your property. They live their own lives with their own desires. Why not respect that?
The world needs all types of people, different strokes for different folks.

Note: Using my same argument for the controlling people justifies their playstyle too.
You are under no obligation to have their goals. YOU DONT HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM!

I mean dude this kind of arguments are better taken to a philosophy 101 college class.

We are all kids in a playground. Play nice with the other kids. Don't hit the other kids. Don't steal the toys and hide them where nobody can play with them. Don't take a toy someone else is playing with without asking. Share your toys. And nobody playing actually has the excuse of being 5 years old for their bad behaviour.

Lily · 2019-02-15 09:43:29

Halfkoreangamer wrote:

Except you cannot gauge intention through a computer screen.
You have no idea if the guy is doing something to make you mad or someone else mad.
Maybe he hates the town itself. People getting mad is just a side effect of his hate for the city.
I have no idea what will make you mad. I could do something with good intentions but it was perceived by someone as ill intentions.

That is true, though you were making it sound like griefing doesn't really exist, because everyone is free to do what they want. Which isn't true, everyone can do what they want but there is definitely people who are griefing. Whether or not you can tell if any specific person is a griefer, doesn't change the fact that there is most definitely griefers in the game and those people know what they are doing.

Though I would go further and say that a lot of times it is fairly easy to tell it any way. If someone randomly starts to dig up bushes to kill them, or takes a bunch of stuff and hides it, or throws several important items into a trash pit or goes, "Ahh die!" and starts trying to stab everyone they see, well it isn't hard to guess they are probably a griefer. Sure some people might guess wrong, but to say you have no idea isn't really true, people have a lot of ideas, there are clues and hints.

All that said, I do think people should try talking to others before jumping to conclusions. Some people just start stabbing people they think are griefers and a lot of time stab innocent people and I think that is kind of dumb. So speaking to people is important too.

Portager · 2019-02-15 10:07:19

I think that this thread illustrates a big problem that I originally brought up on discord.

Roleplay is associated with griefing by the OHOL community, but not all rping is greifing. In most games I practice some subtle rp elements. I might make friends with another baby while we are being fed, or run off with a sister to start a new life (when a camp is overcrowded). I do not consider stuff like this to be bad. In fact I find that it adds a little life to each game. I don't find things like marriage roleplays to be inherently bad either. I believe the community needs to recognize that these forms of roleplaying are not inherently bad, and support players who want to practice them.

The problem with roleplaying is that it can cross a line very quickly. Like I said, I have no problem with marriage, but if you are getting married on top of the forge while I'm working then that's griefing. Likewise, if you run off to start a new home as the last girl, I also find that to be a form of griefing. Berry munching and talking without working is also griefing. True roleplayers need to find a way to balance work with their role plays. I do, and I'm hardly the best player in the world. If I can do it, others can too.

pein · 2019-02-15 11:15:17

i got more hours than most people and still got an open mind and a desire to learn
it took me a while to figure out optimal ways to do things
and my speed of doing things is much faster than average players, i do not wish to do things like smith for the respect from others, i often play as a helper/ process guide.
i had a lot of time where i had monopoly in killing people and i did it for fun too, but generally because i disliked certain kind of behavior and kills carry a strong message, i still do it for a few things:
you dont get to leach on people and curse them/ frame them
if you make mistakes is a minimum to say sorry, not to thrash talk
i wont talk to people who show any sign of agression like agressive tone or weapon in hand or name calling- i will take them down quick
but im open to talk about it as long as they are calm and collected.

there are a few things you can see differently
there arent to many things that actually make logical sense and not a preference, and can be done in different ways

for example killing mouflon cause you need a free tile: go and expand the pen if you need free tiles, dont kill mouflon cause it cant be sheared, so you always have lambs.
lambs shouldnt annoy you if you dont work with them, there is no such thing as "enough dung", there is such thing as a backlog of compost

one comes from a personal preference: dead animals annoy you, you playing a game and burning logs is faster, tilling one soil is faster, pits look bad
other comes from game knowledge, meta knowledge, and logical thinking, also seeing the big picture and caring about future, respecting the ancestors

i think attitude is important, you need be able to learn, recognize your mistakes, and put away feelings and personal opinion, and be selfless (not overly selfless like giving all clothes to a kid then telling others that they are selfish not doing so)
thats why rules are important

some things should be basic knowledge and unquestionable: you make your own resources, you ask for things, you dont take it from others, you accept defeat, you try to learn, you warn others if you dont like their behavior/actions not directly backstab/curse .

despite people telling otherwise, i always gave a chance to repent. but i do not tolerate people who disrespect me, my work or oppose the progression.
actions got consequences. you are born, you need to be able to feed yourself, you need to be able to clothe yourself, you need to feed or teach your babies, or dont have them all.

leading people often comes with the responsibility of making harder choices: risking your life to kill griefers, questioning bad intent and selfish people, telling others if they did mistakes, and killing the people who obstruct progression, control population.

You can Rp after you can produce at least food for yourself, its not that hard to water and soil berries while talking.
Family rp makes no logical sense and your ingame kids arent related to you more than your tenth cousin, and having a bad intended player, shouldnt be tolerated over others even if its your own family. Helping skilled people helps the settlement.
Crown rp is dumb, and taking on crowns means you agree with their views, which is generally seeking attention and trying to assert dominance.
Which you can do by showing example and you dont need a crown to do so.
people think, talking and building relationships is rp, and me killing them for being useless is totally serious bad intended act. But in the end im angry for 5 min and next life i might be the most loved person in their life, and they are butthurt for 1 or 2 hour or for an entire life winkwing Morti, twisted, womanwizard, walrus, mr 600hoursidontevenhaveanidentity. I dont even consider them important enough to care and is funny to troll them.

Might be hard to be patient, might be hard to understand what others do and why, but as long as you cant make a stable settlement with sheep pen, compost, tools and iron mine, you arent in a position of deciding for others and its a requirement to work, scavenge and help to reach that state.
Failing to do so, removes your rights to food/clothing and decision making for the community. This is practically acting as newbee to leach on others.
If everyone would work hard, clearing a junge, making a pen, making tools would take 20 minutes total. Yet most of lifes one player does it for a full life without any benefit for him that life.

I do respect skilled people, and even tryhard enthusiast newbees. And i try to motivate them with words, actions and resources.
I try to accept other people and tolerate them, and generally their fault if we got problems, i respect personal sphere and im very neutral, but i also track resources, actions for sake of optimization. Its fun. I like to make things better, faster, nicer, more optimal.
I accept that some people consider other things fun, but in big scheme of things, if you got no plan and no intention of helping, dont obstruct others, you arent entitled to anything, lot of people take it as an offence, like why arent i giving my newly upgraded cart? cause i had work with it and i got plan with it.
why does it disturbs me that they make a graveyard? cause i got their iron, made our shovel, and people are starving
Is it me who is to obtrusive?

Knowledge is power, you can see by looking at my character, self made clothes, half of the city converted, its not really a demand to ask things from others after you made a lot of stuff already. most people cant lead but dont want others to lead. which is fine, grab a knife and try to kill me.
Generally people got reasons, even if bad ones. Sometimes griefers too. Keeping a lineage alive is one thing, having fun in the one hour you got in that day is another one. Even being a troublemaker. We need the support from jason to make the game more interesting, even to help good intention, people behind monitors with no identity and no consequences.

Until then, we shape the meta, form optimal ways to do things, base lines of communication, cultural habits, groups and rules. Its a learning curve for everyone.We build a society. We need stable things and random things too.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-02-14 19:12:39

Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#2 2019-02-14 19:32:45

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#3 2019-02-14 19:39:10

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#4 2019-02-14 19:58:33

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#5 2019-02-14 20:12:56

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#6 2019-02-14 20:27:08

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#7 2019-02-14 20:33:03

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#8 2019-02-14 20:35:18

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#9 2019-02-14 20:46:12

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#10 2019-02-14 21:40:16

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#11 2019-02-14 22:20:17

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#12 2019-02-14 22:28:41

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#13 2019-02-15 09:36:26

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#14 2019-02-15 09:43:29

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#15 2019-02-15 10:07:19

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

#16 2019-02-15 11:15:17

Re: Stigma of Playstyles, Griefing or Otherwise

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