Is this game elitest, temp update definitely makes it feel that way?

FlyingAboo · 2019-02-19 11:14:55

I only started playing a couple of weeks back. Loved what I saw of the game from videos and the trailer. Started playing and it was a learning curve, but it felt manageable. I am a sucker for punishment and tend to play some "hardcore" games. But this new update has made the game far less fun to play.

I thought I was getting a civilisation building game with a survival undertone. This last update makes it feel more of a brutal survival experience where you aren't just fighting the elements and environment but now one single player can bring many hours of other peoples work to an end. If I wanted that experience I would just go back to playing Rust or Unturned where hours/days of work can be undone in a matter of minuets.

The way the game is right now feels something sick and sadistic. Is the game supposed to only be for the elite and not inviting to more casual players? The response to any complaints about the new update seems to be meet by pretentious elitists that think they are something godley because they play a game with a average population of 130 people and has lost 10% of the player base in the last 30 days.

Greep · 2019-02-19 11:33:37

Nah, mostly only betame loves the update, he just posts a lot I think a lot of players agree with the concept, like myself, just not necessarily the tuning of it.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-19 12:34:35

Greep wrote:

Nah, mostly only betame loves the update, he just posts a lot I think a lot of players agree with the concept, like myself, just not necessarily the tuning of it.

I like the idea of clothing improving. It has needed an improvement for a while, I agree with that. Wood flooring improving also, I think comes as a good idea.

I don't like Jason nerfing jungles in the way that he did. People were already avoiding those. People would die from yellow fever because they wouldn't move out of the jungle, at least for a while. Tackling mosquitoes is not as easy as killing snakes, boars, or wolves. Tackling mosquitoes is probably not as complicated as making a diesel engine, but I think comes as more complicated than blacksmithing, composting, or making a newcomen water pump. Maybe I don't have the complexity level of tackling mosquitoes correct, but whatever its complexity level it definitely requires patience. It's also not too hard to think you're safe, then see a mosquito floating back to a spot that you thought was safe because you miscounted, or an item got moved (so cornering them easily could get delayed or wrecked in a camp with people working on pinning mosquitoes down to corners in my opinion). I thought the balance of the jungle about right. Or at least, the jungle didn't need to get as massively nerfed as it did.

Also, myself and someone else I talked to setup up settlements on low population servers in the jungles for a reason (playing with strangers/people who you think you can trust but don't know well sometimes can be fun... so private servers aren't desirable). We were trying to play smart and took on a serious obstacle. We basically got a kick to the groin.

So, I don't completely agree with the concept, and I think it's implementation lacking also.

WalrusesConquer · 2019-02-19 12:38:58

It's not that hard to survive, and we do try to teach new people. If you are willing to learn and use your time well, you should be fine!

Ellesanna · 2019-02-19 13:16:20

I understand how you feel FlyingAboo, I feel like this game has changed really dramatically and for the worst with this new update. It was done with little consideration to how the majority of the player base, casual players, would feel about it and I personally feel like it was done with either minimal or no play testing at all. I understand wanting clothes and buildings to play a role, but this was not the right way to go about doing it. The game isn't as fun as it was before.

FlyingAboo · 2019-02-19 13:26:52

Ellesanna wrote:

I understand how you feel FlyingAboo, I feel like this game has changed really dramatically and for the worst with this new update. It was done with little consideration to how the majority of the player base, casual players, would feel about it and I personally feel like it was done with either minimal or no play testing at all. I understand wanting clothes and buildings to play a role, but this was not the right way to go about doing it. The game isn't as fun as it was before.

Its a real shame because it really felt like it had so much potential. But I guess I should have read more reviews on Steam before I fell victim to the Youtube hype. Allot of them clearly warn that this game should be beta or better yet early access.

stew · 2019-02-19 13:30:49

I think without zoom the game is just much harder.. keep that in mind

FlyingAboo · 2019-02-19 13:32:59

stew wrote:

I think without zoom the game is just much harder.. keep that in mind

Yeah but that is really easy to fix if you use the AWBZ stand alone client. Whats hard to fix is the condescending attitude of the elitist players who possibly haven't even been playing games for 1 decade let alone the 30 odd years I have.

Last edited by FlyingAboo (2019-02-19 14:31:36)

Ellesanna · 2019-02-19 13:33:01

FlyingAboo wrote:

Ellesanna wrote:
I understand how you feel FlyingAboo, I feel like this game has changed really dramatically and for the worst with this new update. It was done with little consideration to how the majority of the player base, casual players, would feel about it and I personally feel like it was done with either minimal or no play testing at all. I understand wanting clothes and buildings to play a role, but this was not the right way to go about doing it. The game isn't as fun as it was before.
Its a real shame because it really felt like it had so much potential. But I guess I should have read more reviews on Steam before I fell victim to the Youtube hype. Allot of them clearly warn that this game should be beta or better yet early access.

My hope is that Jason will realize his mistake and his next update does something to either reverse this or add something in to balance it all out. My advice to you is to not give up on this game just yet and wait like the rest of us for the next update.

FlyingAboo · 2019-02-19 13:38:19

Ellesanna wrote:

FlyingAboo wrote:
Ellesanna wrote:
I understand how you feel FlyingAboo, I feel like this game has changed really dramatically and for the worst with this new update. It was done with little consideration to how the majority of the player base, casual players, would feel about it and I personally feel like it was done with either minimal or no play testing at all. I understand wanting clothes and buildings to play a role, but this was not the right way to go about doing it. The game isn't as fun as it was before.
Its a real shame because it really felt like it had so much potential. But I guess I should have read more reviews on Steam before I fell victim to the Youtube hype. Allot of them clearly warn that this game should be beta or better yet early access.
My hope is that Jason will realize his mistake and his next update does something to either reverse this or add something in to balance it all out. My advice to you is to not give up on this game just yet and wait like the rest of us for the next update.

Well I guess there is always "Hope", LMAO...

golmock · 2019-02-19 13:57:59

Ellesanna wrote:

FlyingAboo wrote:
Ellesanna wrote:
I understand how you feel FlyingAboo, I feel like this game has changed really dramatically and for the worst with this new update. It was done with little consideration to how the majority of the player base, casual players, would feel about it and I personally feel like it was done with either minimal or no play testing at all. I understand wanting clothes and buildings to play a role, but this was not the right way to go about doing it. The game isn't as fun as it was before.
Its a real shame because it really felt like it had so much potential. But I guess I should have read more reviews on Steam before I fell victim to the Youtube hype. Allot of them clearly warn that this game should be beta or better yet early access.
My hope is that Jason will realize his mistake and his next update does something to either reverse this or add something in to balance it all out. My advice to you is to not give up on this game just yet and wait like the rest of us for the next update.

I agree with your opinion.
I introduced this game a lot to people who enjoy it and they were interested.
Most of them are noob, which is about a week old.
But update on Friday and a lot of users are paying back or giving up the game.
Some friends said they would give up until the entry barrier was lowered and I felt lonely and sad.

stew · 2019-02-19 14:01:02

FlyingAboo wrote:

stew wrote:
I think without zoom the game is just much harder.. keep that in mind
Yeah but that is really easy to fix if you use the AWBZ stand alone client. Whats not so hard to fix is the condescending attitude of the elitist players who possibly haven't even been playing games for 1 decade let alone the 30 odd years I have.

Yea for us it's easy. But for the casual player, who probably never heard of zoom before it's hard. If I am Eve or am just outside the town and have a child without zoom and say follow, I have to walk slower or he will probably get lost. Also with zoom a kid can easily zoom out and see where food is, or which berrys are already eaten. Without zoom he would need to run around to find berrybushes and hope he doesn't find an empty one. So indirect it affect us too.

I also wonder if the game gets balanced more around the zoom mod? (for me this game would be too frustrating without zoom. I prob. would have given up already.)

FlyingAboo · 2019-02-19 14:25:41

stew wrote:

FlyingAboo wrote:
stew wrote:
I think without zoom the game is just much harder.. keep that in mind
Yeah but that is really easy to fix if you use the AWBZ stand alone client. Whats not so hard to fix is the condescending attitude of the elitist players who possibly haven't even been playing games for 1 decade let alone the 30 odd years I have.

Yea for us it's easy. But for the casual player, who probably never heard of zoom before it's hard. If I am Eve or am just outside the town and have a child without zoom and say follow, I have to walk slower or he will probably get lost. Also with zoom a kid can easily zoom out and see where food is, or which berrys are already eaten. Without zoom he would need to run around to find berrybushes and hope he doesn't find an empty one. So indirect it affect us too.
I also wonder if the game gets balanced more around the zoom mod? (for me this game would be too frustrating without zoom. I prob. would have given up already.)

I think it will go the other way around, he will retroactively change the game so that the zoom mod shows no more tiles than the default client seeing as he has mentioned that it wasn't his intent for the game to be played this way.

Bob 101 · 2019-02-19 15:06:46

I can understand, Noobs had a time surviving even before this.

But at the same time I feel alot of people just go "This is too hard, Let's go home". Like they expect it to be easy to make a decent town.

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-02-19 15:28:45)

betame · 2019-02-19 15:18:33

FlyingAboo wrote:

The response to any complaints about the new update seems to be meet by pretentious elitists that think they are something godley

Greep wrote:

Nah, mostly only betame loves the update, he just posts a lot I think a lot of players agree with the concept, like myself, just not necessarily the tuning of it.

For the record, this isn't how I'd want heat to be modeled. I've posted explaining how the mechanics have shifted, but never shut down complaints. - criticism challenges the status quo.

The dev adds what he fancies, and we're left to decide whether to play his game.

FlyingAboo · 2019-02-19 15:37:01

betame wrote:

FlyingAboo wrote:
The response to any complaints about the new update seems to be meet by pretentious elitists that think they are something godley
Greep wrote:
Nah, mostly only betame loves the update, he just posts a lot I think a lot of players agree with the concept, like myself, just not necessarily the tuning of it.
For the record, this isn't how I'd want heat to be modeled. I've posted explaining how the mechanics have shifted, but never shut down complaints. - criticism challenges the status quo.
The dev adds what he fancies, and we're left to decide whether to play his game.

And that is literally the definition of early access.

Peremptive · 2019-02-19 15:45:57

FlyingAboo wrote:

The way the game is right now feels something sick and sadistic. Is the game supposed to only be for the elite and not inviting to more casual players? The response to any complaints about the new update seems to be meet by pretentious elitists that think they are something godley because they play a game with a average population of 130 people and has lost 10% of the player base in the last 30 days.

FlyingAboo wrote:

Its a real shame because it really felt like it had so much potential. But I guess I should have read more reviews on Steam before I fell victim to the Youtube hype. Allot of them clearly warn that this game should be beta or better yet early access.

I couldn't have said it better. This game dev has zero respect for the player, flips the meta on its head completely, and if you talk about it people tell you "zomg dont take anything as permanent we are following a VISION here" or "if you don't want everything you do erased, play on your own" (ie, why did you buy this in the first place? get a refund, you should have just downloaded the game code and played on your own). This game not only has zero testing. Zero testing is part of the dev's philosophy and if you think there should be testing, balancing, or gameplay be stable, then the response of the people defending the game is essentially: fuck you, you were swindled, you shouldn't have paid. Games don't do that even in beta stage, I've never heard of a game where code changes are just rolled out like that. Even early access games have a beta patch on steam that you opt in where changes are implemented and after some testing they are applied to everyone.

I had two friends who joined this game because of me, thankfully they both played less than two hours because they thought it was too hard and you had to go eat all the time, and that was before the update. I told them how the game changed and they are both requesting refunds.

Last edited by Peremptive (2019-02-19 15:51:05)

FlyingAboo · 2019-02-19 16:05:21

Peremptive wrote:

FlyingAboo wrote:
The way the game is right now feels something sick and sadistic. Is the game supposed to only be for the elite and not inviting to more casual players? The response to any complaints about the new update seems to be meet by pretentious elitists that think they are something godley because they play a game with a average population of 130 people and has lost 10% of the player base in the last 30 days.
FlyingAboo wrote:
Its a real shame because it really felt like it had so much potential. But I guess I should have read more reviews on Steam before I fell victim to the Youtube hype. Allot of them clearly warn that this game should be beta or better yet early access.

I couldn't have said it better. This game dev has zero respect for the player, flips the meta on its head completely, and if you talk about it people tell you "zomg dont take anything as permanent we are following a VISION here" or "if you don't want everything you do erased, play on your own" (ie, why did you buy this in the first place? get a refund, you should have just downloaded the game code and played on your own). This game not only has zero testing. Zero testing is part of the dev's philosophy and if you think there should be testing, balancing, or gameplay be stable, then the response of the people defending the game is essentially: fuck you, you were swindled, you shouldn't have paid. Games don't do that even in beta stage, I've never heard of a game where code changes are just rolled out like that. Even early access games have a beta patch on steam that you opt in where changes are implemented and after some testing they are applied to everyone.

I had two friends who joined this game because of me, thankfully they both played less than two hours because they thought it was too hard and you had to go eat all the time, and that was before the update. I told them how the game changed and they are both requesting refunds.

I haven't played enough to be able confirm what you say, but from what I have played it definitely tends towards what you are saying. The responses I have got to my concerns about this update and the way it was rolled out have been met with disdain on Steam and Reddit. If I had known the state of the game I would not have purchased it.

It also kinda makes sense now where griefers come from, I am sure there are some very salty players out there looking at the steam charts.

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-19 16:55:11

it's not elitist for a game to be challenging. Stop being babies. The fun of the game is that it begins frantic and challenging. it should actually be difficult for an eve camp to survive.

Do any of you remember 25-30 years ago when it commonly actually took some effort to survive a game's first level?

Falsewall · 2019-02-19 17:02:58

I made a post a while back requesting this update.
All balance was useless until now. This needed to happen & balancing for it will come, making things less "elitist".

Glad he just threw it in first with no balancing. He can take in statistics as he develops for some quick tweaking

Booklat1 · 2019-02-19 17:14:09

Falsewall wrote:

I made a post a while back requesting this update.
All balance was useless until now. This needed to happen & balancing for it will come, making things less "elitist".
Glad he just threw it in first with no balancing. He can take in statistics as he develops for some quick tweaking

I don't think people understand yet that this will allow some of the biggest complaints about the game to stop on longterm as buildings, clothing and maybe even trading become more viable after this update. Sure, this update makes the game's economy depend more on older, almost unused resources, but trade specifically will still need more work specialization before being a feature, I suppose.

Go! Bwah! · 2019-02-19 17:33:41

fragilityh14 wrote:

it's not elitist for a game to be challenging. Stop being babies. The fun of the game is that it begins frantic and challenging. it should actually be difficult for an eve camp to survive.
Do any of you remember 25-30 years ago when it commonly actually took some effort to survive a game's first level?

Back then, levels didn't change every week and you could learn to survive them through trial and error. Even in a game where everything disappeared when you turned off your console, you could still "build" knowledge about how to survive over time.

With this game, some skills and knowledge transfer from update to update, but not as much. So I think the problem is that it's difficult all the time, with no sense of lasting accomplishment. Your villages erode quickly, and so does your capability. Much like in life, except there the rewards for fighting constant erosion are more concrete; a game is generally supposed to give you *something* that makes it preferable to life.

FlyingAboo · 2019-02-19 17:40:05

fragilityh14 wrote:

it's not elitist for a game to be challenging. Stop being babies. The fun of the game is that it begins frantic and challenging. it should actually be difficult for an eve camp to survive.
Do any of you remember 25-30 years ago when it commonly actually took some effort to survive a game's first level?

That seems like a very elitist thing to say and further justifies my OP.

The game was frantic and challenging(the little of it I had played), but naturally as people develop systems to create order it may appear that the underlying chaos is no longer there. Just because a few players have learned all the intricacy of the tech trees and any exploits that may not be inline with a vision, does not mean that the game has become easy.

What source of information are people using to justify Eve survival, productivity and any other stats that might indicate the rate of failure for Eve camps?

Yes I do, but I think you may be over exaggerating a little. Games might have appeared harder because peoples aptitude and understanding of games and their mechanics was not so advanced. There also wasn't the internet to find hints, at most if I was lucky a friend might have got past a level or someone had some tatty ass pad with all his cheat codes written on.

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-19 17:40:35

but the plains are the same as they always were. this is only radically different if you never left town. Just eat when you're hungry and carry food and treat the desert like the tundra.

FlyingAboo · 2019-02-19 17:51:55

Falsewall wrote:

I made a post a while back requesting this update.
All balance was useless until now. This needed to happen & balancing for it will come, making things less "elitist".
Glad he just threw it in first with no balancing. He can take in statistics as he develops for some quick tweaking

So basically what should be done in any early access phase? Some people didn't get this game to constantly have to re-learn the meta to keep the elitists happy. Its not like this game is played by thousands of people, with a wealth of knowledge.

There is parts of the tech trees that could literally be considered griefing if you built or farmed them. Pine walls, 1/3 of the walls we can build is a good example. Something that is so obviously broken. This update does not provide any more motivation to build that tier of structure. With even more need for milkweed to be used wisely it has even less place than it did before.

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#1 2019-02-19 11:14:55

Is this game elitest, temp update definitely makes it feel that way?

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