Current temp/hunger measurements

jasonrohrer · 2019-02-22 17:47:47

How long does a 25-year-old's hunger bar take to go down from full to empty in different situations?

Naked on green-- 1:42

Naked on small fire on green (just right)-- 6:17

Naked on snow-- 1:14

Naked on fast fire on green (too hot)-- 2:42

Naked on slow fire on green (too warm)-- 4:50

Naked on desert-- 1:07

Naked on jungle-- 1:44

These are rough measurements, and slightly low (I spawned as Eve over and over, and forced the age to 25 server-side, so she started with two pips empty, and then I walked over to each of these setups on a test map).

I don't think that raising the top is a good idea here. Only needing to eat once every 6 minutes.... that's pretty leisurely. Of course, if you're actually doing stuff in the game, you won't be able to hold that perfect temp. But the fact that it's possible even when naked, just with the small fire, means that bathroom breaks are totally possible.

I made these measurements because I've been thinking about raising the bottom up a bit. But I'm not sure if I should. 1:42 seems like quite a bit of time in what should be a high-pressure survival situation (naked with no heat source on green biome).

I would probably add, at most, 1 second per pip to the bottom, which would give naked on green 22 extra seconds, or something. That would push it up above 2 minutes...

Booklat1 · 2019-02-22 17:52:45

is there a way to just give people a slight buff to heat when hair grows? its at this point that extra time becomes relevant (since people might focus on learning and starve)

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-22 17:56:25

i think it's basically fine, this is why it's been driving me crazy people saying you need to eat every three seconds. If you have a mutton pie, you can get by on 1 bite a minute everywhere.

It might be a good idea to raise green biome temp just like 5%, i think it should be a bit more forgiving than yellow grasslands and swamps. i think of the green grassland as more like Western Washington and I live in more of a yellow grassland and the temperature is simply more mild in green grassland areas. That's really the only change i'd make, green grasslands a touch warmer.

I don't think each pip should be made to last longer, cause that's 1:42 with you missing two pips and no yum bonus.

You're also talking about with no yum and not fully fed, and its still 1:42

InSpace · 2019-02-22 18:07:08

What was the timing that everyone was whining about? This seems pretty alright for new / medium players

omlinson · 2019-02-22 18:09:30

The only thing that bugs me about the temperature update is when you walk over a three tile desert and end up getting double heat shock because you trusted the game to not walk you through those tiles.

On the flip side, it does seem like there is never a biome that is totally enclosed by a biome of a different temperature.

Tarr · 2019-02-22 18:14:38

Yeah there's absolutely no reason to buff the top as before the temperature change sitting in a jungle only losing one pip per 20 seconds was just silly. I think buffing the bottom is fine as even a second subtracts like 90 pips per hour while completely naked. Add in people making early game clothing and I believe it puts you in an overall okay spot. I'm not sure how much you need to get back to the old value of 8.3 but I know eventually with clothing you bypass the prechange desert anyways.

fragilityh14 wrote:

I don't think each pip should be made to last longer, cause that's 1:42 with you missing two pips and no yum bonus.
You're also talking about with no yum and not fully fed, and its still 1:42

Yum is only ever good if it costs less time to chain than it does to save. Eve running around trying to find a bunch of different foods is going waste tons of her time with meager benefits for her anyways. Moving from 746 to 656 doesn't suddenly break the game for nude people. You'll still end up needing clothes as otherwise you still require 18.75 berry bushes per hour which is only a savings of about 3 bushes per hour per person with this change.

JoshuaN · 2019-02-22 18:26:21

If you think about it, a three year old only has like 7-8 pips, they would get an entire 8 seconds out of adding a second per pip at the bottom. Idk about you but i usually start playing at age 3, i don't wait till i'm an adult to go off exploring. Usually getting clothes is my first priority, 8 seconds more seconds between eating would be a godsend. It would also mean adding 5 seconds between each berry consumed. This would help immensely for villages that have fewer wild berries. It would be especially helpful to an eve's children.

Last edited by JoshuaN (2019-02-22 18:33:34)

Dodge · 2019-02-22 18:28:47

Buffing isolation for some early clothes like the seal skin for example would be better imo than a default buff without having to do anything, maybe a reed hat that doesnt require needle and thread to make or other clothes with the same idea that eve's can make

jasonrohrer · 2019-02-22 19:05:25

I just realized that "thermal shocks" went through several variations, and I think I settled on the wrong one, maybe.

Currently, you shock all the way up to the biome's target temp, and this is modulated by clothing (but that modulation will never make you more comfortable than you were before the shock).

A previous iteration just had you "shock" to the mirror position on the temperature meter, and then go up from there as-needed. Thus, clothing wouldn't reduce the shock, but it would slow your temperature rise after that. This version solved the "boundary dance" problem, but made clothing not quite as good.

In discussions with a local designer friend, we somehow decided that this "mirror shock" version was hard to understand, and that shocking up to the biome's target temp would be easier to understand. But I don't think this is true. Neither one makes perfect sense, and the big shock is more "shocking" to the player who is not expecting it.

So, I think I will go back to that version.

If perfect is 10, and you are at 9, and you step into the desert, you go up to 11 (even though desert will eventually take you to 20 if naked). If you are wearing clothes, that will slow how long it takes you to get from 11 to 20.

But if you are at 2 (freezing) and you step into desert, you will go up to 18, and then gradually go up to 20 from there (modulated by clothing).

In other words, there will NEVER be instantaneous changes to your hunger rate. No discontinuities in the hunger rate curve. Though the slope of that curve will have discontinuities.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-22 19:26:38

jasonrohrer wrote:

How long does a 25-year-old's hunger bar take to go down from full to empty in different situations?
Naked on green-- 1:42
Naked on small fire on green (just right)-- 6:17
Naked on snow-- 1:14
Naked on fast fire on green (too hot)-- 2:42
Naked on slow fire on green (too warm)-- 4:50
Naked on desert-- 1:07
Naked on jungle-- 1:44
These are rough measurements, and slightly low (I spawned as Eve over and over, and forced the age to 25 server-side, so she started with two pips empty, and then I walked over to each of these setups on a test map).
I don't think that raising the top is a good idea here. Only needing to eat once every 6 minutes.... that's pretty leisurely. Of course, if you're actually doing stuff in the game, you won't be able to hold that perfect temp. But the fact that it's possible even when naked, just with the small fire, means that bathroom breaks are totally possible.
I made these measurements because I've been thinking about raising the bottom up a bit. But I'm not sure if I should. 1:42 seems like quite a bit of time in what should be a high-pressure survival situation (naked with no heat source on green biome).
I would probably add, at most, 1 second per pip to the bottom, which would give naked on green 22 extra seconds, or something. That would push it up above 2 minutes...

All of these calculations strike me as strange. The most glaring one comes as the small fast fire on *grassland* (to clarify, the small fast fire comes as the first fire ever made). I thought the wiki said that a small fast fire becomes hot coals after a minute. Alright, looking at the hot coals page that is what it says (though it uses the term 'fire' instead 'small fast fire'... I don't recall the exact terminology of the game so I might be inventing my own by calling it a 'small fast fire'). According to the wiki hot coals decay into ashes after 2 minutes. I mention them, because I believe those numbers come as correct, but I am not looking at the code. For anyone playing by themselves and trying to take a bathroom break, the decaying into hot coals, and hot coals decaying into ashes numbers would have relevance. For anyone playing with someone else though, there's no telling what might happen. Do they let the small fast fire decay and leave it at hot coals for a bit (waiting a bit to throw kindling on hot coals can be a technique to try to save on kindling while smithing before an axe, and it's still viable in solo play... also one could cook some rabbits or the goose, then throw kindling on the fire and go back to smithing)? Or does the small fast fire become a large fast fire? Or a large slow fire?

The large slow fire example also has a difficulty. How in the world does a player know for how long that's been running? Even with the Awbz mod, I don't think people are likely to check on when firewood or a buttlog last got thrown on a fire if they do something else on the other side of town for a bit, or come back from a mission for an iron.

So, I don't know what the fire numbers suggest or prove, nor do I even know what they mean. You said that you spawned as an Eve over and over, but I don't know how you tended to those fires, or when they started (which has the most relevance for the large slow fire), or if you let the fires decay. Too much variability for any of us to figure out, and I'm not sure how these numbers would come as relevant enough for someone wanting to take a bathroom break, even if I did know what they meant, because of other variables that would happen in gameplay with other people.

Another problem comes as human variability in bathroom breaks. Different people need different times. Additionally, and I think this holds for most people, number one doesn't usually take as much time as number two.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-02-22 19:29:59)

jasonrohrer · 2019-02-22 19:40:57

Yes, you caught me! On my test server, I disabled the passage of time to run these tests (so the fires wouldn't keep going out, or changing).

I supposed you'd have to have a friend feed the fire for you.

You could also have a friend feed you, though.

The variability of human bathroom breaks is beyond the scope of this thread....

CrazyEddie · 2019-02-22 19:48:25

This seems like a much better idea. Much easier to understand, which in turn means it will feel much more "fair".

It also means that hot vs cold is really just a bit of chrome, a bit of visual flavor. Effectively, all biomes are now cold, but some are called hot, and when you enter them the temperature meter is flipped.

That's probably fine.

Edit: No, I'm wrong, at least somewhat, because fire in cold biomes is good but fire in hot biomes is bad.

Last edited by CrazyEddie (2019-02-22 19:49:00)

JoshuaN · 2019-02-22 19:55:01

Back when desert borders was a thing i used them to go to the bathroom, both number 1 and number 2. Can't do that anymore. If i had to go away for longer than 6 minutes well... I'd just accept my death and move on. I have seen players feed an afk player before though.

Last edited by JoshuaN (2019-02-22 19:58:59)

jasonrohrer · 2019-02-22 20:01:14

Hold it right there, JoshuaN.

See what I did there?

Yes, CrazyE, I've thought a lot about what hot and cold mean in the game, and whether they are just flipsides of the same thing.... Yes, fires are bad in hot, which I think makes sense (harder to run a forge or cook in the jungle). Clothes are no longer bad in hot (b/c body heat component is now turned off in hot). Houses are now good in hot (b/c they cool things down). So some things are mirrored, while other things are not. It's kindof a weird mix. But they are not, currently, 100% mirrors of each other.

JoshuaN · 2019-02-22 20:19:10

Lol ye, but if nature calls I'm not gonna ignore it. Its generally not a good idea to hold it in. To be honest people really shouldn't prioritize video games over real life. It would just be really nice for short breaks to be possible though. The time scale in this game is actually pretty unforgiving for us who live in a world 525,600 times slower, if it was perfectly detailed to replicate human life at an exact 1/525,600th scale it would be impossible to play.

Its kind of amazing that we can fit a whole life into one hour though, the amount of detail ignored is astonishing. Like... an average person goes to the bathroom between 6-7 times a day. That's 131,400 to 153,300 times in 60 years. Imagine doing that in one hour.

Last edited by JoshuaN (2019-02-22 20:20:30)

jasonrohrer · 2019-02-22 20:25:32

JoshuaN, please try the following modifications to your gaming setup and report back concerning your results:

JoshuaN · 2019-02-22 20:32:13

I use to have something similar, however the repercussions on my life were severe. That's another topic of its own.

ryanb · 2019-02-22 20:33:13

+1 to raising the bottom a bit. I think it will help ease the difficulty raised by the latest temperature update.

Falsewall · 2019-02-22 20:40:16

Jason give us a once per life I need to shit button. No hunger for 4 minutes.

Imagine the famines I could avoid during my shitting session.

Spoonwood · 2019-02-22 21:44:50

Falsewall wrote:

Jason give us a once per life I need to shit button. No hunger for 4 minutes.
Imagine the famines I could avoid during my shitting session.

Maybe the 'shit button' could also produce dung from the character in the game, once the settlement has a sheep, and immediately one bowl of berries disaappear from the bushes and a carrot disappears also. Consequently, we could have human made compost! I'm not saying that's a good idea for the game. I just thought that would be funny.

Greep · 2019-02-22 21:56:33

Even with the bottom being raised "a bit" there's the issue of taking 2 minute break while exploring. This, to me, is a real annoyance. Previously, you needed to find a mild temp spot and you had your 5 minutes. Now you just die even fully clothed.

So I agree with shit button No hunger, and moving breaks the shit duration.

Edit: Alternatively, just have activity in general affect temperature maybe? So sitting still in worst conditions adds a straight 4-5 seconds per pip. I remember a xwynn's video where he thought this actually occurred even though it doesn't. It'd make teaching a lot easier too, and wouldn't really buff the game since you need to move to do anything useful. Although I guess the extra server calculations would mean it's not worth it

Last edited by Greep (2019-02-22 22:22:21)

CrazyEddie · 2019-02-22 22:08:36

This discussion has gone straight into the crapper.

futurebird · 2019-02-22 23:43:45

One of the reasons I only played the Sims once was when I found out you have to go to the bathroom in that game. I do not get how that's fun. LOL but it's a different kind of game, more about making scenarios and customizing. What that has to do with having to use the toilet IDK

I just want to manage items, build a little, cooperate and have a little goofy over dramatic roll playing.

I really like the "stay still to normalize heat" idea. It'd help keep babies still, and with a nice food bonus you could camp by a fire for a moment and check that real dinner in the real world isn't burning.

wondaland · 2019-02-23 01:35:41

Haha maybe I just don't need to use the bathroom enough to be considered normal but I never need breaks within the max one hour of this game...

pein · 2019-02-23 04:55:47

the benefit of desert edges was mainly the baby raising for me, as generally i went for the tech and i preferred if they don't disturb me, even if im in colder temp
but also camping a bit in a place was nice
this free fire replaces real fire, but what about a temporary heat source? like a geyser lasting 4-5 min in a random area spilling hot water and heat, giving a good heat value, but you couldn't use it forever, i think exploration must be rewarded, and map knowledge is important part of this game
i had this moments, that "i wont play eve again, oh look, how cool this part of map is, there could be a nice square farm, and i could use those ponds in the pen wall". now im like: "food, branches, 2 ponds, some soil- that will do, later they can move".
i think limited number of better heated tiles to use them for baby raising or toilet break arent over the top. like what you could do on 1x1? build a farm around it? that would need a cistern and buckets or roads and optimize around it
and if its temporary then this whole thing wouldn't worth it at all but would be a nice reward for finding it
or some other type of heat production, like food from onion
some chemical reaction made with some basic wild resource, which is consumed in exchange for a short heat production, this would allow a short break in wilderness but become obsolote in big cities

i think the numbers are hard for newbees, but can get used to it

give with one hand and take away with other

i would seriously consider giving clothes different benefits too
something visibly good
something that makes you want to focus on them, not like "you need clothes now to not get punished"
a foodbar redesign?
if you nerf the food bar size but keep the timers roughly same
clothes would give some extra bars
so the base level would be lower maximum "tank" but also lower refills needed
then clothes would give some extra foodbar storage, so not just age dependent food bar, a basic set of clothing would be essential, but it would feel good the same time, but also make it easy to gain this bonus with some very bottom level of clothing
speed for shoes also? people barely wear shoes or see them
"-oh look how fast he walks, why?""-he has shoes"
even if you nerf normal walk by 15% and buff shoes with 15-30% speed or so
i guess that would be abused in some situations but a few tiles per second isn't that much short distances, short time

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-02-22 17:47:47

Current temp/hunger measurements

#2 2019-02-22 17:52:45

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#3 2019-02-22 17:56:25

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#4 2019-02-22 18:07:08

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#5 2019-02-22 18:09:30

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#6 2019-02-22 18:14:38

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#7 2019-02-22 18:26:21

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#8 2019-02-22 18:28:47

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#9 2019-02-22 19:05:25

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#10 2019-02-22 19:26:38

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#11 2019-02-22 19:40:57

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#12 2019-02-22 19:48:25

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#13 2019-02-22 19:55:01

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#14 2019-02-22 20:01:14

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#15 2019-02-22 20:19:10

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#16 2019-02-22 20:25:32

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#17 2019-02-22 20:32:13

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#18 2019-02-22 20:33:13

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#19 2019-02-22 20:40:16

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#20 2019-02-22 21:44:50

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#21 2019-02-22 21:56:33

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#22 2019-02-22 22:08:36

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#23 2019-02-22 23:43:45

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#24 2019-02-23 01:35:41

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

#25 2019-02-23 04:55:47

Re: Current temp/hunger measurements

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