New clothing vs hunger?

Greep · 2019-03-04 08:41:19

So sometime between the temperature overhaul and the current time, betame's posts
(http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewto … 907#p45907)
on hunger seem to have gone obsolete. I've read something along the lines of insulation now being multiplicative or something, but the point being that small amounts of clothing are seeming to have virtually no effect, while large amounts of clothing have massive effects. From betame's posts, a few hides would get you a whopping 60-70% hunger reduction. That's no longer the case.

So I decided to do a bit of testing to get a broad guess at how much hunger reduction you get with some makeshift clothes as eve. It's very disappointing. The following, with pips lost per minutes:

Naked: ~11 pips
Mouflon hide: 10 pips (near 11)
Mouflon hide + reed skirt: 10 pips
Mouflon hide + reed skirt + wolf hat: 10 pips
Sealskin coat (not hide) + reed skirt + wolf hat: 9 pips.

In other words, don't even bother with clothing now until you can create a full or near full set. Naked in grassland meta xD

Last edited by Greep (2019-03-04 11:28:11)

betame · 2019-03-04 15:19:33

listening for if I got it wrong; can't play test any time soon.
*also discord is noting a bug with the backpack adding more than 5% ins

Tarr · 2019-03-04 15:26:36

Might not actually be a bug but either it was really REALLY slow drain rate after getting myself onto a fire and warming myself to actual medium temperature or it was locking my temperature. Not real sure either way but BP is really needed when making clothes for people.

Hat comparison:

Best in slot comparison without and with BP:

Rabbit fur coat with and without BP:

Anything under a rabbit fur coat has really bad temperature values even with a full set + BP. Rabbit fur hat isn't too far off an actual wolf hat just as a rabbit fur coat isn't too far off a sealskin coat. Rabbit fur coat and rabbit fur hats are fine substitutes for BiS items if you aren't farming the tutorial for gear. You should always be wearing the rabbit fur loincloth + shoes.

Last edited by Tarr (2019-03-04 15:31:03)

Greep · 2019-03-04 15:52:21

Well, the in code calculations for temperature are extremely convoluted: there's lots of random stuff like body heat giving off bonus heat in cold biomes and other random stuff inserted. If the initial graph was made by examining code rather than double checked with in game data, I wouldn't be surprised if it was incorrect to begin with.

This is also one thing that can't really be tested with OCS, though, because I bumped the minimum hunger. The temperature will show correctly, the hunger does not, though.

As for the backpack thing being a bug, I don't think it is, it's just the weird clothing effects: if you take off any clothing at a full or near full set, temperature craters. It seems to be a non-linear equation somehow.

Last edited by Greep (2019-03-04 16:14:55)

DestinyCall · 2019-03-04 16:50:38

Jason did mention that the backpack has an R value now to help protect you when gathering snowballs. Apparently that also contributes to your overall insulation.

Hunting seals for the hide early is still worthwhile, since they can be upgraded later and never decay. The low value from minimal insulation makes the reed skirt even less of a good investment, since there are many other things to do with a rope or thread in early settlement. It would be better to keep the milkweed as two threads - then hunt rabbits for backpack/loincloth. Later on, you could gather wheat for the straw hat. It is weaker than the rabbit hat, but there are too many better uses for rabbit skin in early village.

The hardest part about getting clothed in a pre-sheep village is the lack of thread. This is a pretty hard limit, since you can easily end up investing more time in the pursuit of clothing than in the advancement of the village. Better to focus on getting sheep pen ready and hunting the mouflon by second or third gen. As an Eve, you have to just hope that your kids are smart enough to work on this stuff quickly.

Greep · 2019-03-04 17:04:31

Well, the main takeaway I got from this testing, is that if clothing is non-linear, then it's an all or nothing affair: like if I saw a seal I wouldn't skip clubbing it, but I can always do it later. So there'd really be two eve strategies: Full on rabbit + sealskin coat nomading: hoover up all of the milkweed in an area for thread, tools, and snares and walk far away fully clothed with one daughter. Or just mostly ignoring clothing.

The rabbit hunting is iffy because I've done it before and you will not fully cloth yourself and your daughter until you're post 40, which means it's all on your daughter, but the gains seem to be worth it given the huge effects a full set have.

fragilityh14 · 2019-03-04 17:05:50

yeah I've found in general in an early village a person can easily gather 4 or 5 seal skins quickly without taking much food from camp, if they're nearby it's totally worth bopping them on the head and bringing back some insulation for the family.

I usually only make reed skirts if i'm in the wilds, if you have a basket with sharp stone and a piece of food, and see four milkweeds together, why not?

Tarr · 2019-03-04 17:08:28

DestinyCall wrote:

Jason did mention that the backpack has an R value now to help protect you when gathering snowballs. Apparently that also contributes to your overall insulation.

Yeah it's R value helps spike up your normalized temperature which is fine but it seemed once I raised it above it's normal stabilized value I could walk around with the new better temperature. I'm not sure exactly if the clothing insulation was so good that it was draining incredibly slow or if it just got stuck.

In relation to early clothing I'd just skip out on it until you've got sheep. If someone is hunting mouflon hides or something that's nice but not something you 100% need. I think the biggest issue comes from the required furs per 5 and a half hours to keep everyone nice and snug.

12.5 rabbit furs per person if going the full renewable route with rabbit hat (2), rabbit fur coat, (4) rabbit loincloth, (1) rabbit fur shoes (1) and backpack (4.5)

6.5 rabbit furs per person if going the nonrenewable route: wolf hat, sealskin coat, rabbit loincloth (1), rabbit fur shoes (1), and the backpack(4.5)

10.5 rabbit furs needed per person if going the semi renewable route: wolf hat, rabbit fur coat (4) rabbit loincloth (1), rabbit fur shoes (1) and of course backpack (4.5)

I wouldn't recommend swapping out the chest piece for anything less than a rabbit fur coat as you suffer a pretty big drop on that slot by going to a shawl, and a mouflon hide not decaying isn't worth the huge loss of temp. Hats I'd say stick to rabbit, wolf, or wool considering the abundance of fleece has to go somewhere and wool caps can be converted to Santa hats if you don't always want to be making new hats.

Skirts aren't worth it, and the other shoe types are too costly to do over rabbit fur ones.

Jojigirl · 2019-03-04 19:48:35

Thanks to Twisted for pointing it out, but the perfect clothes combo is Rabbit fur: Shoes, loin cloth and of course Backpack. Sealskin coat with wolf hat.

You'll hold near to perfect temperature. I always try to make plenty of wolf hats and seal coats to get as many people in them as possible.

I had a child that wanted the Santa hat over a wolf hat when she was a baby, I flat out told her no, and that the wolf hat would keep her at a better temp than the Santa hat.. I try to educate my babes to look for that full set combo. It saves food and it helps keep them alive.

Greep · 2019-03-04 20:38:15

Finally did a deeper dive and, well, insulation is weird.

If you have 100% insulation you actually get infinite heat. I tried giving myself 100% clothes insulation as a test and heated up as an oven.

Basically, your body is a thermal reactor that produces 0.25 heat every update. And your clothes get better at trapping this heat. It stabilizes at a certain point based on your environment. But as it gets closer and closer to 100% it actually reaches infinite, not perfect temperature. And you burn up and die The breaking point where overpass perfect temperature is something like 95% insulation, and so far we can only reach 93.5% or so.

On the flip side, at lower insulations, you don't trap much heat at all, and currently don't gain much of anything.

Alright, I've got the logic of the equation. Just need to work on the specifics:

Equilibrium temperature (ignoring airR and snowballs) is when:

0.25 = -(environment - equilibriumTemp) * (1 - clothingR)
-0.25/(1 - clothingR) = environment - equilibriumTemp
-0.25/(1 - clothingR) - environment = -equilibriumTemp

equilibriumTemp = environment + 0.25/(1 - clothingR)

Divide by 10 to get scaled for [0-1]. And as seend, when clothingR approaches 1, this becomes infinite.
Full current game clothing (0.94R) yields ~0.4 extra temperature from naked, a mouflon hide (0.2) yields a pathetic 0.031 extra temperature

Now I just need to log out the correct value for grassland environment and plug it in here, which I am probably too lazy to do since we already have the bonus temperature for clothing as simply:

0.25/(1 - R) , divided by 10 for the [0-1] scale

Edit: actually, it would be the amount better than naked, which would be 0.25/(1-R) - 0.25

Which gives truly, ridiculously pathetic amounts for low levels of clothing. 0.0061 for mouflon hide. Ouch!

Last edited by Greep (2019-03-05 06:16:27)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-03-04 08:41:19

New clothing vs hunger?

#2 2019-03-04 15:19:33

Re: New clothing vs hunger?

#3 2019-03-04 15:26:36

Re: New clothing vs hunger?

#4 2019-03-04 15:52:21

Re: New clothing vs hunger?

#5 2019-03-04 16:50:38

Re: New clothing vs hunger?

#6 2019-03-04 17:04:31

Re: New clothing vs hunger?

#7 2019-03-04 17:05:50

Re: New clothing vs hunger?

#8 2019-03-04 17:08:28

Re: New clothing vs hunger?

#9 2019-03-04 19:48:35

Re: New clothing vs hunger?

#10 2019-03-04 20:38:15

Re: New clothing vs hunger?

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