My proposed changes on yum

Thaulos · 2019-03-28 13:09:54

Since we are all talkimg about food now I've decided to weight in on what I consider to be an important (and foid related) feature of the game and how to improve on it.

I have proposed two changes on github to try to "fix" the bad side of yumming hopefully providing yummers with the right incentives while and hopefully addressing most of the objections from the anti yummers.

Here are the git issues:

Remove yum from wild foods
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/271

Non breakable yum chains
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/272

I would love to know what yoy guys think.

I will quote both their texts here for consistency:

Remove yum from wild foods
Introduction:
Yum is a great incentive for players to produce multiple foods. Having multiple food streams not only adds flavour to the game but also helps extending the life of communities by providing alternatives when the main staple food fails. This behavior is desirable.
Wild foods contributing to yum chain disrupts this behavior. Abandoning town to forage for wild foods is fast and easy providing the individual with multiple yum levels in exchange for their time. On the other hand the effort of creating and maintaining new food types for the entire community is big and time consuming.
This incentivises selfish behavior where if 10 people were trying to yum, every one of them would abandon town to forage. If instead all invested the same time in helping to create new "higher food" options then town would effectively advance making it easier for future generations to yum properly.
Suggestion:
Remove wild foods from the list of foods that contribute to yum chain.
Intended result:
Players would be more likely to create and eat multiple "high foods" instead of heading out to forage by themselves.

Non breakable yum chains
Introduction:
Yum chaining is probably my favorite feature in the game. It provides a (in my opinion fun) mini game that incentivises players to diversify food, experience new recipes and allows for improved food efficiency (both in terms of time and potentially resources).
However the fact that chain can be broken results in two counter behaviors thaat are less desirable:
Since the yum chain is constantly on the line, like drug addicts, players who yum will inevitably spend a significant amount of their time trying to ensure their next "fix". This causes them to focus mostly on "fast food" such as wild foods, raw carrots, berries, green beans, popcorn;
Players will focus on maintaining their yum chain rather than creating new "high foods".
Most "fast food" is terribly inefficient (either by time or resources) potentially causing a significantive drain on the town.
Players will break yum and start eating the same food again from zero. This negates most incentives to create new food after yum chain failed once.
Players overly attached to their yum can be griefed by others by simply being fed a berry either accidentally or on purpose, this causes frustration, drama and leaves a bad taste in your mouth afterwards.
Suggestion:
Make yum chain non breakable and bonuses not repeatable.
Intended result:
A chain that doesn't break would free yummers from having to focus solely on yumming while still keeping the incentive to create and maintaining new food types.
Player yum level and their associated bonus (values might need adjustmemts) depend on lifetime consumption allowing for a more stable yumming and converting yumming from an individual mini game to a quantifiable benefit to the community.
Future:
Trade of different staple foods between towns?

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-03-28 13:21:25

No on number one

Maybe on number two

I feel like eliminating wild yum will kill eves chances at all and hurt people who have to get the far stuff like iron. Most yum at a middle chain with wild foods just because they're so far from everyone that they're available and can get a free +4 from the land.

futurebird · 2019-03-28 13:38:46

I don't like the first one leaving town is also the main way that I find iron and return lost clothing and further if you are eating wild food you aren't eating up the food at home. It's not bad that yum give a reason to do this.

The 2nd one I like.

DestinyCall · 2019-03-28 14:03:06

I would also say no to #1 - removing yum options from the wilds would create a new problem where yummers were effectively "trapped" in town by their yum requirements. And it would also punish Eve camps and early settlements where food options are limited by available tech. In these places, wild foods provide an important stepping stone to higher level food options. Without wild food for yum, early generations would not be able to chain yum effectively, even if they put in the effort to make diverse foods. I think the net result would be that yummers would be even more distracted and food-focused due to the limited options and requirement to make a bunch of yum foods if they want to keep up the chain.

As for #2 - This is an interesting idea. I'll have to think about it some more. It would make yum very powerful, especially for the elderly, since it would be much easier to reach +20 yum over the course of your lifetime. Personally, I like this idea. Just not sure how it would work out, from the perspective of game balance.

In my opinion, the chain-breaking aspect of yum is a big part of why it isn't worth-while for many experienced players - too finicky and time-sensitive. Unless you are focused on yumming, it is very easy to find yourself in a situation where you must decide between working on your yum chain or continuing more important work. And lower level yum chains don't provide that much benefit, so yum becomes a "toy" mechanic that isn't worth the effort for hardworking villagers. But removing the chain-breaks means that the cumulative effect of yum would get stronger and stronger over your lifetime, even if you invested very little time or thought into the process. Food diversity would be more relevant for the average villager, since simply providing a wider range of food options would help to raise everyone's yum level. However, this might create game balance issues by heavily impacting starvation and food scarcity. High level yum is really good. It's rare to reach high enough levels to really see the full impact of yum, but if your chain never broke, many more people would be getting into double digits.

Personally, I like the idea. I think it would encourage more diverse food production while eliminating the stress of "screwing up" your chain. And if more people were interested in yum, the burden of diversity food production would get shared by more people. It would make yum easier and more accessible. However, it might require some balancing - but the food chain is over-due for re-balancing anyways, so I don't think that's necessarily a deal-breaker. In fact, it might be a good thing, since it would mean that older towns could move away from a meat pie-focused food economy, branching out into diverse food production lines and "yum stations" instead of mass-producing only the highest efficiency foods to feed their larger player populations. Instead of every town having a single big bakery to feed everyone, you might actually see towns with multiple food production areas and different people producing a variety of food products for general consumption.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-03-28 14:06:33)

futurebird · 2019-03-28 14:10:02

What if the lower levels of yum provided a larger benefit so anything under +6 and as you went higher it tapered off logarithmically?

Anandamide · 2019-03-28 14:15:24

Yeah, number one is amazing when foraging for iron. I almost never bring food(other than what I end up gathering); I definitely dont bring pie unless im searching for a vein in which case I leave it at the vein and remember its there because littler sucks. Its also fun as eve, or her single living male child to do the fertility ritual and bring her a cornucopia of food. Two trips brings 6 yum, burdock, carrot, onion, banana, cactus fruit and an egg. Hopefully by the time you've brought all of that back, the farm has finally fruited and you get a bow of green beans, corn, popcorn and carrots for another 5 yum. She can end the chain with berry and bowl of berry and by then she almost certainly has had a few babies. All she needs to do is tend the fire and make bby. To get all of this done does need a vaguely good spot to gather all the seeds and wild foods before she reaches 30, but I would not go to those lengths over a eve who chose a bad spot. If I have a backpack, and we got more than one girl, part of my ritual is taking one of the girls with the fire tools and setting up a satellite camp if there is a promising spot not too far away.

Last edited by Anandamide (2019-03-28 14:15:42)

Spoonwood · 2019-03-28 14:23:53

No to both.

Booklat1 · 2019-03-28 15:08:44

Yum is fine as is, its base food values and costs that are all over the place.
The way berries, mutton pies and milk are cheap it's pretty hard to justify prepping yum for the food bonus alone.

Food has indeed been too easy to produce since farm and food updates but since Jason made tools a big iron sink and nerfed iron rates it became quite an issue to make iron-inneficient food pre-mines or even pre-pump. To me its more about balancing foods and giving dependable yum options at all stages of the game.

Joseph Stalin · 2019-03-28 15:16:50

anything to get rid of unneeded micro would be nice

Psykout · 2019-03-29 19:04:04

Put a cap on maximum yum and make the higher tech food give additional yum, +2 or so. Breaking the chain isn't as devastating if an advanced town because there is more higher tech food to yum off of, Eves can still yum as they normal would but wouldn't be able to max it out without starting to make pies. It would be nice to see yum as a mechanic that isn't this house of cards, but something you often reset and build back up. If a town is baking four different pies plus has stew going, it would be nice if we got a bigger benefit from that other than the same amount of yum you could get going through an untouched area. Also if across the board yum was used more, not sure if it would really change fertility much, smaller camps would be a little more competitive and big towns would and should be even playing field. This could open the door for food items that give a lower amount of pips but are really yummy, which is quite thematic.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-03-28 13:09:54

My proposed changes on yum

#2 2019-03-28 13:21:25

Re: My proposed changes on yum

#3 2019-03-28 13:38:46

Re: My proposed changes on yum

#4 2019-03-28 14:03:06

Re: My proposed changes on yum

#5 2019-03-28 14:10:02

Re: My proposed changes on yum

#6 2019-03-28 14:15:24

Re: My proposed changes on yum

#7 2019-03-28 14:23:53

Re: My proposed changes on yum

#8 2019-03-28 15:08:44

Re: My proposed changes on yum

#9 2019-03-28 15:16:50

Re: My proposed changes on yum

#10 2019-03-29 19:04:04

Re: My proposed changes on yum

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