Steam workshop

Glassius · 2019-03-30 07:04:22

Just tried to play Two Hours One Life, but seems the mod server is down. I've took a look at Steam and there is no workshop. Do you Jason plan to enable it? I believe it would be both beneficial to you and modders.

Anandamide · 2019-03-30 09:58:24

I dont see how it would be beneficial to Jason. Or modders. He already released the source code for the game, and since its multiplayer, mods only are going to ever be a thing on other servers. He doesnt like zoom mod(I use it, but just saying), and has turned down a lot of content that people have tried to bring to him. He doesnt want help working on the game. Unless he releases a standalone, single player version one day, I dont see this ever being a thing. Also im pretty sure Two Hours One Life is dead.

Glassius · 2019-03-30 10:20:44

Mods are only visible to Discord and forum users. Steam players are not aware of them. Steam workshop would be beneficial to modders. And it happens to many games, that modders keep it alive much longer than competition, so Jason will earn much more money because of community.

This affects only one things in negative way: Jason's artistic vision. From an art master he would become more serious businessman, which I believe he doesn't want to be, even if he currently is

Last edited by Glassius (2019-03-30 10:21:43)

Anandamide · 2019-03-30 12:34:52

But that's the thing, the official game will never include those mods, so if the official game dies off then those mods will still only exist on unofficial servers. So if his game dies, it does him no good that your port of it keeps going. He literally gave you and everyone else the source code for free. This game does not lend itself to the kind of mod community youre looking for. Its multiplayer, so those mods would only apply to people running servers. Its not like say factorio or cities skylines or the sims or whatever where you can just add whatever you want to the game. I mean you can, but youre going to have to run your own server. It just doesnt make any sense for Jason to spend any time when he already has given you the game.

Anandamide · 2019-03-30 12:47:40

Basically, You will only see something like the steam workshop or a mod portal in the client if Jason decides at some point to make the game have a single player option other than running your own server. If you are so inclined, you could decide to do that yourself though and add in a mod portal. As for a modding community, there already is one on github; right now there are 127 forks of the game and awbz's fork has been forked nine times. For a game that has so few active players currently and no official modding support, I think they are doing alright.

Last edited by Anandamide (2019-03-30 12:50:10)

Glassius · 2019-03-30 17:28:22

Pros for modders
1. Github is for developers, not for majority of gamers. Most casuals can easy install something on Steam without any management, but not so easy from other sources.
2. Discord and forum are not used by casual players on Steam. Puting mod to Steam Workshop will help reach them.
Pros for Jason
1. Steam mod players need still to buy the game. Most mods do not bother to make sure, game was bought from Jason.
2. Jason's legacy is obvious, even without any mention inside mod.

Psykout · 2019-03-30 18:49:44

Glassius wrote:

Pros for modders
1. Github is for developers, not for majority of gamers. Most casuals can easy install something on Steam without any management, but not so easy from other sources.

I would hope someone who takes on the technical difficulty of this game, would be able to drag and drop files from a zip from github into their root directory. I understand what you are getting at, but as other said, its not a really good option for this game. Most mods that you are possibly thinking about would be required server side, which is such a niche thing, a private server essentially, that there would be little point to attempt workshop capabilities. Furthermore from a solo developer it would take a good deal of time implementing such a feature, that would get limited uses. None of want time taken away for something like this.

Glassius · 2019-03-30 19:00:59

I do not think it would affect Jason massively. His code is open source and was modded multiple times. The only cost may be managing uploaded mods in his workshop.

Most mods for Jason server would be reskins. But even if it would require another server: Mount & Blade was done this way. And CS 1.6. So, it usual thing on Steam

Anandamide · 2019-03-30 19:09:08

Glassius wrote:

Pros for modders
1. Github is for developers, not for majority of gamers. Most casuals can easy install something on Steam without any management, but not so easy from other sources.
2. Discord and forum are not used by casual players on Steam. Puting mod to Steam Workshop will help reach them.
Pros for Jason
1. Steam mod players need still to buy the game. Most mods do not bother to make sure, game was bought from Jason.
2. Jason's legacy is obvious, even without any mention inside mod.

Modding isnt for casuals lel. If you're at that point, you almost certainly would end up coming into contact with the forums or discord. Downloading AWBZ from github is easy, one click, and then you have to extract it. If we had a steam workshop for this, we would just see a bunch of clients with various similar features that at the end of the day do nothing to change the actual game and just address client side QoL. If you want to promote AWBZ or some other client mod to steam players, then go on there and give them this link. You dont get a modding community because a bunch of players want mods, but because modders want to develop them and then people are like "wow thats cool I wanna use that". Most games(almost all of them) do not have the source code available, and all mods (if supported) are done through an API or other hooks that allow changes after that instance of the game has been built. This is an inherently slower and lower level of access to the software and you are limited to adding and modifying the game or software to what hooks the developer(s) put into that modding support. Some games store resources in xml, so you might get to modify values or sprites but thats that. If you want to do anything with this game, you are completely empowered by Jason to do whatever you want with it, including make money off of the game. Modders in many games would love to have that kind of access.

Glassius · 2019-03-30 19:41:31

You are like those crazy linux guys, who said: compile OS on yourself is easy, just download it from repository, write commends to console which were put on the Internet thousand times, disable all the options you are not gonna use for better performance, download LXDE if you MUST use GUI, but better stick to console. If any game does not work on Wine, just wait, linux community will fix it. Or fix it on yourself, nothing easier, just download debugged code...

This is bullshit. Windows got so popular, because it is so easy. Making mods more available is simple, fastly increase community and appeals casuals. Do you know that following external links on Steam gives you warning? Then repository, which causals do not know. Than download, extract (people Google how to extract zip!). Even finding Steam games directory is challenging to some. Every such a simple, easy step is the part of great learning curve we, forum users here, usually beat without problems. But if you want community to flourish, bigger player base, more cities, interactions, you must make it as easy as possible for Steam casuals.

Last edited by Glassius (2019-03-30 19:42:46)

Anandamide · 2019-03-30 19:57:34

Glassius wrote:

You are like those crazy linux guys, who said: compile OS on yourself is easy, just download it from repository, write commends to console which were put on the Internet thousand times, disable all the options you are not gonna use for better performance, download LXDE if you MUST use GUI, but better stick to console. If any game does not work on Wine, just wait, linux community will fix it. Or fix it on yourself, nothing easier, just download debugged code...
This is bullshit. Windows got so popular, because it is so easy. Making mods more available is simple, fastly increase community and appeals casuals. Do you know that following external links on Steam gives you warning? Then repository, which causals do not know. Than download, extract (people Google how to extract zip!). Even finding Steam games directory is challenging to some. Every such a simple, easy step is the part of great learning curve we, forum users here, usually beat without problems. But if you want community to flourish, bigger player base, more cities, interactions, you must make it as easy as possible for Steam casuals.

Great adhominem there, if anything is bullshit its trying to use that to argue anything.
You don't have to do any of that to get AWBZ, the full release needs no compiling; just download and open the game folder. You still haven't given any kind of example of the kinds of mods you want to see. I've explained the two kinds of mods you can make for this game and why one kind( content changes) is impossible without running your own server(which is certainly not a casual thing), and the other side with client QoL+Reskins is something Jason is against and will not ever include that in the game. He doesn't want us zooming, but due to the way the server works there's nothing he can do to stop it currently, so he gave us mosquitoes. Changing the graphics is cute and all until you get stuff like people shrinking trees to see if people/tools are hiding behind them. Jason doesn't want that, not because he wants to say help griefers, but just wants everyone to have a more uniform experience for fairness. There's nothing he can do to stop you from doing that, but why would he provide support if his way of thinking about this game is so clearly against it. Him releasing it open source in the context of his "philosophy" is just one way of him saying, "I'm making this by myself, so don't try to work with me on it. If you want to do something with it, you can have a copy and run wild with it, but you're doing it without me."

***Im not against mods, I use AWBZ. You just have to be realistic about what Jason is actually gonna get behind and this is not it. He would have to have some change of heart on what the whole game is about and make a single player option***

Last edited by Anandamide (2019-03-30 20:01:35)

Glassius · 2019-03-30 20:47:25

Anandamide wrote:

; just download and open the game folder.

No. You have to firstly get to know about it, find the forum or YT with it to check what is it (firstly i thought it is about old Joriom's mod), find it on Github, figure it out (most mod users do not play with developers repositories), download and extract to directory.

On Steam: check if there is workshop, surf trough it, subscribe.

Anandamide wrote:

You still haven't given any kind of example of the kinds of mods you want to see.

It was obvious from my posts: content, requiring independent servers. M&B works this way, Steam workshop is the easiest way to find such mods. Running server is not so casual as reskin, but still people do it on Steam.

Anandamide wrote:

and the other side with client QoL+Reskins is something Jason is against and will not ever include that in the game. He doesn't want us zooming, but due to the way the server works there's nothing he can do to stop it currently, so he gave us mosquitoes.

Cheaters and Jason's artistic vision are valid arguments. Just next time, do not argue that modding is very easy. It isn't. It's standard difficulty. Easy are mod managers. Say at beginning, modding is too easy and should be harder so there will be no mods at all.

Anandamide wrote:

***Im not against mods, I use AWBZ. You just have to be realistic about what Jason is actually gonna get behind and this is not it. He would have to have some change of heart on what the whole game is about and make a single player option***

Again, M&B

Psykout · 2019-03-31 08:22:05

Anandamide wrote:

Modding isnt for casuals lel. If you're at that point, you almost certainly would end up coming into contact with the forums or discord. Downloading AWBZ from github is easy, one click, and then you have to extract it. If we had a steam workshop for this, we would just see a bunch of clients with various similar features that at the end of the day do nothing to change the actual game and just address client side QoL. If you want to promote AWBZ or some other client mod to steam players, then go on there and give them this link. You dont get a modding community because a bunch of players want mods, but because modders want to develop them and then people are like "wow thats cool I wanna use that". Most games(almost all of them) do not have the source code available, and all mods (if supported) are done through an API or other hooks that allow changes after that instance of the game has been built. This is an inherently slower and lower level of access to the software and you are limited to adding and modifying the game or software to what hooks the developer(s) put into that modding support. Some games store resources in xml, so you might get to modify values or sprites but thats that. If you want to do anything with this game, you are completely empowered by Jason to do whatever you want with it, including make money off of the game. Modders in many games would love to have that kind of access.

This is a really good summary of the whole idea. You would not be able to officially run many types of mods, so would need to have a dedicated server to use them. This is a game that ONLY really works with groups of people playing together. Splitting that player base more simply to mod the game is a terrible idea. There is simply not enough of a playerbase to start splitting them up, there is a reason the mega server was made, the game is more enjoyable if more people are playing on the same server together.

Glassius wrote:

Cheaters and Jason's artistic vision are valid arguments. Just next time, do not argue that modding is very easy. It isn't. It's standard difficulty. Easy are mod managers. Say at beginning, modding is too easy and should be harder so there will be no mods at all.

The biggest and most used mod for OHOL is AWBZ. Reskins are done personally, there are not many that are managed by a content creator if any at all. Also it seems like you are forgetting something, just because there is a workshop does not suddenly mean lots of players will start creating content. This is a what came first, chicken or the egg, dilemma. Without a reason or commonplace desire for changes, there will be no mods. Doesn't matter if you have a digital storefront or not, they won't be heavily utilized, because it prevents you from playing on the normal server. You keep referring to Mount and Blade, a game that has a full singleplayer mode, and averages around 6k players a month, with easily 500+ playing official multiplayer servers at one time. They have the playerbase available, that making private modded servers would not affect the main servers heavily. OHOL does not have that. Lastly, literally to install AWBZ you right click your shortcut for the game, click open file location, copy/cut/drag files from the zip to that folder, and you are done.

Glassius wrote:

Making mods more available is simple, fastly increase community and appeals casuals. Do you know that following external links on Steam gives you warning? Then repository, which causals do not know. Than download, extract (people Google how to extract zip!). Even finding Steam games directory is challenging to some. Every such a simple, easy step is the part of great learning curve we, forum users here, usually beat without problems. But if you want community to flourish, bigger player base, more cities, interactions, you must make it as easy as possible for Steam casuals.

This is just insanity. In my definition, someone who takes it upon themselves to mod a game, workshop or not, become more than casuals. Saying that people might not mod the game, simply because its a site based off steam, is you looking for ammunition. If you are using a newer version of windows, you don't even need to use an extractor. You just fricken double click the files. Same as that you can mount virtual images inside of windows. You can't preach that windows is popular because it makes things easy, only to follow it up with saying that doing a BASIC windows task is more than a common PC user can do. You are literally saying we should have mods on steam workshop for people that can not double click a file on their computer. Are you even thinking about what you are saying?

Best advice I can give you, in normal day to day life. If you are beginning or joining a conversation with the idea that either you will change someone's mind, or have yours changed, you are part of a discussion. If you are only wanting to change another's mind, you are leading an argument. Please stop arguing with us and listen to what is the majority, and adapt your minority opinion, or just leave it be.

MultiLife · 2019-03-31 09:19:29

Hahah, when I installed AWBZ's zoom out I had trouble finding the one to download (had to scroll down a lot and click "latest release"), then I just installed the one that read "full" which broke stuff in the game. Then, confused, I made a forum post, which AWBZ answered, then I got the right one installed. Then, it had to be updated every time Jason updates and AWBZ himself updates, and many times I made clean installs, thinking it had to be done like that. When AWBZ hadn't updated, I was confused, trying to get it to work, until I realized by myself that "riiight he probably hasn't updated yet, so I am in a limbo between Jason and AWBZ".

I've been using Windows and computers since I was like 5 years old, playing on emulators and starting games with commands. Without knowing English but just repeating what I was shown. Yet I still manage to fumble with new things.
Many also mention they'd try out AWBZ's mod but they are lazy, I bet if it was a button in workshop there would be a lot of people trying it. But yes Jason wouldn't want that.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-03-31 09:21:37)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-03-30 07:04:22

Steam workshop

#2 2019-03-30 09:58:24

Re: Steam workshop

#3 2019-03-30 10:20:44

Re: Steam workshop

#4 2019-03-30 12:34:52

Re: Steam workshop

#5 2019-03-30 12:47:40

Re: Steam workshop

#6 2019-03-30 17:28:22

Re: Steam workshop

#7 2019-03-30 18:49:44

Re: Steam workshop

#8 2019-03-30 19:00:59

Re: Steam workshop

#9 2019-03-30 19:09:08

Re: Steam workshop

#10 2019-03-30 19:41:31

Re: Steam workshop

#11 2019-03-30 19:57:34

Re: Steam workshop

#12 2019-03-30 20:47:25

Re: Steam workshop

#13 2019-03-31 08:22:05

Re: Steam workshop

#14 2019-03-31 09:19:29

Re: Steam workshop

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