A rough, incomplete sketch for makng family survival more meaningful

Thaulos · 2019-04-03 22:59:16

What if in a town we have a family that specializes in smithing and crafts all the shovels? How are you going to determine who "owns" a shovel?

What if another is a Shepard family and also does crafts wool clothing? How are you going to determine who "owns" a sweater?

What if I hire some homeless people to help out with crafting. Will they "own" the items now?

Last edited by Thaulos (2019-04-03 23:02:05)

DestinyCall · 2019-04-03 23:23:01

Thaulos wrote:

What if in a town we have a family that specializes in smithing and crafts all the shovels? How are you going to determine who "owns" a shovel?
What if another is a Shepard family and also does crafts wool clothing? How are you going to determine who "owns" a sweater?
What if I hire some homeless people to help out with crafting. Will they "own" the items now?

If it was me, I would have the Maker's Mark only be placed on high-value end products, like tools and clothing. So if you were making a shovel, there is no Mark on the straight shaft or the toolhead. However, when those items are combined to form a functional tool, whomever "made" the shovel is recorded by a Maker's Mark on that tool. Tools are not turned into anything else, so that final step is the most important in terms of "ownership". Everything leading up to that step is crafting.

Technically, this means someone could sneak into your workshop and finish your car to steal all the credit. And it also means that if a bunch of people work together over several generations, only the last person is given any tangebile credit for "making" the radio.

If ownership is important to you, you might want to find a private workspace to prevent people from messing with your stuff. Alternatively, if you don't care, you could gather the raw materials and let other people craft the finished products - like gathering rabbit hides and leaving them out for people to make the clothes they need. I don't think everyone would necessarily care about ownership, but enough people would that I think it could have an impact on the game. It would give you a way to have your contributions recognized and also let you keep track of your own stuff.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-04-03 23:28:39)

Booklat1 · 2019-04-04 00:51:02

jasonrohrer wrote:

I have thought about this (regional tech trees), but it's pretty difficult to pull off. It's hard enough to have one tech tree, let alone five. Even if you just think about walls... wood walls in the forest, adobe walls in the desert, snow walls in the arctic, stone walls in the mountains, mud walls in the swamp, bamboo walls in the jungle.
Yeah, it would be cool. But it would also take forever.
And all those different kinds of walls would be necessary, because the only way it would work is if biomes were very large... so large that a complete survival tech tree was necessary in each biome. Whole sets of crops, etc., unique to each biome. Yikes.
The idea, of course, is that even higher tech would require ingredients from mutiple biomes instead of just one, which would motivate trade. But I still don't see that really happening. It would certainly motivate journeys, but probably not trade. Also, if the towns are close enough for trade, that means the biomes are close enough to travel between too.
I think the entire idea of "long distance trade" as a goal is misguided. It's just one kind of trade, and a very special, relatively modern type. Macro trade.
What about micro trade?

People used to trade food based on seasonality, ability to store and transport. Most foods in this game lack these dynamics.

I think we lack realism not just witty design solutions, and definitely can allow no easy exploits. On the other hand the fov in this game makes it clear you wanted peole chatting closely inside buildings. So maybe designing more activities that demand that wouldnt be bad

Thaulos · 2019-04-04 01:36:04

It doesn't make sense for everyone to make everything. Makes more sense, specially as we get more and more tech, to have families specializing in something. The "makers mark" only makes sense if everyone makes everything independently. Why even have the mark if it doesn't correlate to ownership?

DestinyCall · 2019-04-04 04:34:08

Thaulos wrote:

It doesn't make sense for everyone to make everything. Makes more sense, specially as we get more and more tech, to have families specializing in something. The "makers mark" only makes sense if everyone makes everything independently. Why even have the mark if it doesn't correlate to ownership?

Not sure I understand what you mean by "families". If you mean lineages, the maker's mark would say something like "Made by John Simth" when you inspect the tool, so it would be clear who made the shovel and what family they belong to. If by "family" you actually mean a smaller family unit, like a mother and daughter who work together, I honestly have not seen that happen very much in-game and don't see why it would matter. You can decide who gets their name on the stuff you make, either way, you will know that it belongs to your group by looking at the name.

As for ownership ... what defines something as "yours" versus "mine"? What gives you the right to lay claim to a particular physical object, place, or animal? In many primitive societies, what you make with your hands IS yours. You can give what you make to someone else as a gift or share it with other people, but you are the one who put in the effort to make it. That has value.

People respect hard work and craftmanship. They respect productive workers. Those are the kind of villagers you want to have around. If we could look around and see that all our tools were made by Bob and most of the backpacks were made by Sandy, we might actually notice when the smith dies of old age or have a better idea who is griefer when Sandy has to knife someone. Beyond all that, being able to track object providence would let people lay claim to the produce of their own work. If I make a cart and someone else walks off with it while I'm busy, I'd like to be able to track down which cart was mine. If I notice that the village suddenly has fifteen knives and they were all crafted by Derek, I know who is going to DonkeyTown next. The maker's mark helps establish ownership and personal accountability, by linking you with what you produce. It won't matter to everyone, but I think it would matter to enough people to make a difference.

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-04 06:47:36

As much as I love this idea, I'm pretty sure it would be a huge hairy beast to implement it, given the way objects are stored in the database, and given that the server doesn't currently track full name or lineage history for every person who ever lived (that stuff is written into the life log file, but it's not kept on hand, nor sent to the client.... remember, the servers are seeing 8000 lives per day).

So mousing over a wall, and seeing that it was built by John Smith, your Great Great Great.... Great Uncle would be awesome....

But also pretty out-of-reach as a feature, given the way everything currently works under the hood.

I'm currently in the process of doing that just for graves, so that you can mouse over graves of people who died before you were born. And it's a pretty huge hairy beast itself. And that only tracks people who lived since the last server reset, and tracks it live. I'm guessing this will consume about 5 MB of RAM per week. I probably need to put some kind of time cut-off in there, to make sure it doesn't consume boundless ram in the distant future, when the servers stop restarting weekly (after I'm done updating the game a few years from now).

Glassius · 2019-04-04 07:40:21

Just make a grave dissappear after 24-48 hours, leaving a flat stone This would release tracking the data of buried person

Tarr · 2019-04-04 07:44:13

Turn the grave ancient after ten hours and thematically blank whatever name is attached to the grave as it's grown much too worn to read after such a lengthy amount of time.

Redram · 2019-04-04 17:17:36

Giant biome themed tech trees would be a nightmare to create and balance (and the act of perfectly balancing them will almost certainly ensure the tech trees are substantially the same with different art). You have to get it perfect or one will be supreme, and then if you pop as eve in any biome but the perfect one, suicide. Same for specific location resources - if you don't find one of them in your eve life, may as well suicide. No point in starting a town without one of the unique resources. Might even be no point unless you find one near a biome edge, so that you have access to both biomes. Always place them in center of biomes? Now biome size dictates town spacing - too large and towns will never find each other, too small and you risk one town accessing more than one. Unless they are claimable, but then only if anyone else has actually found all the surrounding ones. Eves always pop by one of them? Now you have the spacing between these resources dictating the eve spiral (assuming it's even doable code-wise?). It's a pandora's box.

Unique resource nodes for non-critical resources is probably the best bet of the fixed-location strategies; then you're not dooming your town by not finding one, but it still *might* generate some trade, maybe. But all this is why I think allowing the towns to create the unique nodes themselves is better. It doesn't cause non-optimal suicide problems, at least no more than already exist.

One Hour One Life Forums

#76 2019-04-03 22:59:16

Re: A rough, incomplete sketch for makng family survival more meaningful

#77 2019-04-03 23:23:01

Re: A rough, incomplete sketch for makng family survival more meaningful

#78 2019-04-04 00:51:02

Re: A rough, incomplete sketch for makng family survival more meaningful

#79 2019-04-04 01:36:04

Re: A rough, incomplete sketch for makng family survival more meaningful

#80 2019-04-04 04:34:08

Re: A rough, incomplete sketch for makng family survival more meaningful

#81 2019-04-04 06:47:36

Re: A rough, incomplete sketch for makng family survival more meaningful

#82 2019-04-04 07:40:21

Re: A rough, incomplete sketch for makng family survival more meaningful

#83 2019-04-04 07:44:13

Re: A rough, incomplete sketch for makng family survival more meaningful

#84 2019-04-04 17:17:36

Re: A rough, incomplete sketch for makng family survival more meaningful

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