Trash and Decay update.

Tarr · 2019-04-08 16:50:58

If you have ever been inside any big city they eventually get cluttered to a point where leaving seems like a more viable option than attempting to clean up the entire city. I'm suggesting adding more items that can both dumped into a trash pit and either adding in some level of food decay to try to solve the problem of city clutter since Jason seems to be against the idea of making larger containers.

Items that should without a doubt decay:
-Tomatoes: Used in two secondary dishes that cannot be used on their own which mean picking tomatoes is almost always permanent tile loss.
-Peppers/onions: Same issue as before but now featuring only one usable dish. Basically if it can't be used easily it should decay.
-Threshed wheat: Trying to clean this stuff up by making bread will take you a lifetime and you might not even finish. Remove threshed wheat biomes.
-Eggs: Please let these things spoil. If there's one thing I hate its eggs everywhere, and if there's something I hate more it's geese everywhere.
-Meat: Whether it be mutton or rabbit, both of these items cause clutter due to people not wanting to cook it. Force people to use it or lose it.
-Dung: It turns out that having to fix the compost cycle and a flood of dung are both annoying options. Make it so we can use our sheep pens again.
-Dry bean pods: These things are one of the worst offenders of things that never get used up. Easy to pick by accident, even easier to just leave on the ground, these things need to be updated like every other seed.

Items that should go into trash pit:
-Sugar: Only goes into two recipes which aren't made very commonly. The only commonly made item it goes into is black dye.
-Carnitas: The classic clogger of bowls, these things should have been able to be dumped since forever.
-Salsa: Suffers from requiring chips to be able to eat. This means salsa can and will fill bowls for lengthy amounts of times if not forever.
-Ketchup: See salsa, but now featuring an easy to make food related with a stigma attached.
-Salt: It's used in two recipes and neither of them are made regularly.
-Sliced onions/tomatoes/peppers: You either have to make these plates into salsa which then fills a bowl or get stuck with unusable plates.

I'm sure I've missed something but the point is if you don't want to increase container sizes at least give us a way to get rid of all the crap produced in a village. Most of us sticking around at this point would probably rather have stuff decay than have to make eternally growing dumping fields outside of a city.

Basically for trash pits if an item cannot be removed easily it should be dumpable in the trash, if it can't be made into something else or it is too over abundant it should decay.

Last edited by Tarr (2019-04-08 18:45:12)

Booklat1 · 2019-04-08 17:01:33

Clothes should also decay (the new ones should last very long though and dyeing should reset timers). I think 8 hours is probably fine.

For storage options we could get wardrobes and dining tables, both impassable and storing at least 5 items.

Things cannot just become easily stackable indefinitely, but tech based storage + decay help balance this. Ty for the post Tarr, Id hate to see another update making easy stacks with no drawback.

futurebird · 2019-04-08 17:10:57

Bean pods should not decay because it's the same item as wild corn and squash seeds and they do get used for stew. Just look around for the bowl the stew farmer is using and put them there.

Eggs decaying could change some eve strategies, but I'm not against it if it's like 4 hours.

Meat should decay if not in a container after 1 hour.

Lastly, the fact that baskets, the not so great method we have to organize this stuff decay, but the tomatoes in the basket don't is just making clutter bombs. Baskets should last longer OR baskets should have an upgrade of some kind that lets them last longer and hold more items. Even a way to repair them would be good.

Grain should not decay if it's in a container. And we need some kind of silo where you can pour like 12 wheat bowls (or flour) and they last basically forever.

We keep getting new cooking items but not new cooking TECH.

Tarr · 2019-04-08 17:26:50

futurebird wrote:

Bean pods should not decay because it's the same item as wild corn and squash seeds and they do get used for stew. Just look around for the bowl the stew farmer is using and put them there.

Just change it so if its left on the ground it'll decay like every other seed. Out of the stew crops only bean pods don't decay, and out of all crops it's the odd man out. Seeds left in a bowl shouldn't decay (following every other seed) with the only difference being pods can be taken out of their seed bowls.

futurebird wrote:

Eggs decaying could change some eve strategies, but I'm not against it if it's like 4 hours.

An hour is more than enough for someone to decide whether or not they're going to eat an egg especially considering if something isn't done (flooding ponds or shooting geese) these things become clutter in late game.

futurebird wrote:

Meat should decay if not in a container after 1 hour.

It would have to become a separate item like meat in basket to avoid despawning while sitting in a container. I think I'd rather see a salted variation be added for meats to be preserved rather than try to play the stacking and unstacking game with meats.

futurebird wrote:

Lastly, the fact that baskets, the not so great method we have to organize this stuff decay, but the tomatoes in the basket don't is just making clutter bombs. Baskets should last longer OR baskets should have an upgrade of some kind that lets them last longer and hold more items. Even a way to repair them would be good.

Baskets can be kept around indefinitely if you stack and unstack them at least once every ten hours to refresh their timers. This is a known thing by Jason where he says if you care to maintain you can keep it. Other times that fit in this category are backpacks when you pickup and drop soil, fruit boots when you add or remove a cactus fruit, and some lesser items like dyeing old wool items or adding a feather to a rabbit fur hat. So repair is possible as long as you don't let them go floppy.

futurebird wrote:

Grain should not decay if it's in a container. And we need some kind of silo where you can pour like 12 wheat bowls (or flour) and they last basically forever.

I'm fine with either of these suggestions as it shows the player wants to keep their threshed wheat instead of making a giant mess of the stuff throughout town.

futurebird · 2019-04-08 17:31:16

Is decay random? If I leave 10 rabbit fur loin cloths sitting on the ground will the all decay at the same time, or will they fail at random some sooner than others?

Booklat1 · 2019-04-08 17:31:57

futurebird wrote:

Is decay random? If I leave 10 rabbit fur loin cloths sitting on the ground will the all decay at the same time, or will they fail at random some sooner than others?

decay is based on timers for each item

Amon · 2019-04-08 17:42:33

Can we just eat tomatoes raw???
Please lol.
You can eat tomatoes as is.

Spoonwood · 2019-04-08 17:50:53

I disagree on every point, especially the one about clothes. Non-decaying items I actually want more of. Non-decaying BASKETS especially. A mess of wheat, mutton, and other resources? Cook it, process it, or move it out of town. Better a mess than fewer resources. A mess is better than fewer resources.

Tarr wrote:

Baskets can be kept around indefinitely if you stack and unstack them at least once every ten hours to refresh their timers

But it's not always the case that someone will be around to stack and unstack them at least once every ten hours. So, I completely disagree. Non-decaying basekts should exist.

Also, people don't have to cook the mutton. Bears and wolves exist, and dogs can get made.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-04-08 17:51:05)

DestinyCall · 2019-04-08 17:54:17

futurebird wrote:

Grain should not decay if it's in a container. And we need some kind of silo where you can pour like 12 wheat bowls (or flour) and they last basically forever.
We keep getting new cooking items but not new cooking TECH.

A simple solution to the grain storage problem - let us pour bowls of wheat into an rmpty crockpot for storage. Uses an existing item, removes common clutter.

Thaulos · 2019-04-08 17:55:13

I subscribe to all of this 100%. We definitely need this update.

Booklat1 · 2019-04-08 18:04:09

Spoonwood wrote:

Bears and wolves exist, and dogs can get made.

yeah, that's a solution fir clutter, useless moving clutter

Things need to decay for balance. It sucks for singleplayer but towns with everything are boring AF

Averest · 2019-04-08 18:11:44

Just a quick correction, Sugar is used to make vinegar for making black dye. So two recipes now.

Tarr · 2019-04-08 18:36:04

Averest wrote:

Just a quick correction, Sugar is used to make vinegar for making black dye. So two recipes now.

Thanks, I forgot about black dye for a moment and this reminded me of other items to add to the list.

Spoonwood wrote:

I disagree on every point, especially the one about clothes. Non-decaying items I actually want more of. Non-decaying BASKETS especially. A mess of wheat, mutton, and other resources? Cook it, process it, or move it out of town. Better a mess than fewer resources. A mess is better than fewer resources.

Playing made isn't exactly a very fun job in a town and removing a bunch of the problem items frees up the town to be more organized overall. Instead of spamming mutton everywhere decay means you only kill sheep whenever you want to bake and not whenever there is a naked sheep which adds actual choice vs a noob trap. The idea isn't to force full blown food decay yet but to specifically target problem items.

Spoonwood wrote:

But it's not always the case that someone will be around to stack and unstack them at least once every ten hours. So, I completely disagree. Non-decaying basekts should exist.

I mean I don't disagree that there should be some sort of storage upgrade that is either better or is on the same level and doesn't decay besides spamming boxes. However, someone was talking about repair so I brought up the stacking bit to show that baskets can be kept as long as a town is alive.

Spoonwood wrote:

Also, people don't have to cook the mutton. Bears and wolves exist, and dogs can get made.

Bears don't permanently freeze after eating anymore so this is the same thing as adding mutton decay, and dog breeding is generally messy and leads to people making permanent puppy tiles.

Amon · 2019-04-08 19:37:38

Better food storage.

Why not use thread twice on a cape to make a sack! SACK: Anazing. Let em store 10 units or something.
I wouldn't make grain decay.
I would make it attract birds in a while if a significant amount of threshed wheat is present.
The birds will gobble up the excess wheat but not ALL of it. (say 3 units are safe) (wheat in bowls is not safe)

This way you have an emergency ration. But clutter wil be gobbled up unless:
1) somebody keeps chasing away birds.
2) wheat is in a sack
3) wheat is stored in a room (granary)

I kinda want poo to decay into a single soil.

For meat... Hmm. What if mutton left too long on the corpse attracts a wolf spawn? The wolf eats up the free meat or something but is then trapped in the pen haha. Not as clear how to get rid of mutton naturaly other than just to cook it and eat it.

Tomatoes should be just edible off the bush.

Eggs? i mean. I never seen horrible egg clutter other than eve spawns.
Maybe having nesting boxes and having geese lay eggs ONLY there and it can store, say 6 eggs or so. That'd be fine and nice.

Im there with you on dry beans.

And honestly everything that cannot be recycled into something else should be able to go into the trash pit.

Last edited by Amon (2019-04-08 22:06:50)

Thaulos · 2019-04-08 20:31:17

Guys, maybe focus on decaying and trash for now. This is important so please don't derail it.

Booklat1 · 2019-04-08 20:33:19

Thaulos wrote:

Guys, maybe focus on decaying and trash for now. This is important so please don't derail it.

people want shenanigans and forget how simple changes make the game better

voy178 · 2019-04-08 20:38:18

Maybe we could make a cake or pancakes or any other dish with similar ingredients? Egg, flour, sugar and milk (potentially omit if it's too complicated)? Gets rid of most of those things you said was cluttering. I get that adding another novelty food item makes cluttering worse for a short while, but at least it doesn't add more single-use items.

futurebird · 2019-04-08 21:04:29

What about a pickled eggs recipe with eggs, hot water and vinegar? The attraction would be not needing a plate like with the current egg recipe.

Spoonwood · 2019-04-08 22:43:08

Tarr wrote:

Playing made isn't exactly a very fun job in a town and removing a bunch of the problem items frees up the town to be more organized overall. Instead of spamming mutton everywhere decay means you only kill sheep whenever you want to bake and not whenever there is a naked sheep which adds actual choice vs a noob trap. The idea isn't to force full blown food decay yet but to specifically target problem items.

So basically, if I understand how you've described bigserver towns right now, there often enough exists enough mutton that people can fairly easily cook a bunch of mutton meat as cooked mutton. Since people have mutton pie also, that's multiple food types. And it's not wasteful to cook things that way, since otherwise you'd just throw things out of town. But, you want less mutton meat around, so that advanced towns have fewer food types?

Somewhat similarly, it sound like there's plenty of wheat for all eight pie types it sounds like, or could exist plenty of wheat for such, given that people got enough clay and fired up those plates.

Tarr wrote:

I mean I don't disagree that there should be some sort of storage upgrade that is either better or is on the same level and doesn't decay besides spamming boxes. However, someone was talking about repair so I brought up the stacking bit to show that baskets can be kept as long as a town is alive.

That's fair. I see your point now. I guess this comes a point to say that that I tried the soil in a backpack trick to reset the decay timer on the backpack earlier today. My backpack ended up decaying still.

Averest · 2019-04-09 00:35:59

There is a tiny window in which a newly rediscovered town can save the baskets before they start decaying. I don't know how long you have but if you're an Eve and come across a dead town, start stacking baskets or have your kids start stacking baskets. Same with saving carts. You have a small window before carts will move to the broken stage. If you put wheels on them or hitch it to a horse, you can save the cart.

pein · 2019-04-09 01:21:48

yeah a lot of stuff is just showcase

like gose pens or new update plans, you can show that you got them, they not particularly useful and if someone who doesn't know how to make them it's just sitting there with no use

GreatShawn · 2019-04-09 01:38:35

we should be able to make compost from rotten stuff or just banana peels.

breezeknight · 2019-04-09 06:36:43

after the last two updates i've given up to care for the clutter
i warned before, i asked for a regulated solution, namely - one stackable object per update
the support from the "community" was underwhelming, now we have to pay mutually

i am for ALL kinds of solutions, so that players can decide - trash, piles, shelves, compost, you name it

i personally am for the simplest solution as the basis - all objects stackable in piles
additionally one multi-pile containing maybe 10 objects or 8

this would help immediately with the scattered stuff on every tile
even in settlements where there are more pressing matters to attend to than making additional objects for stuff

& i also want to say one thing to the "community"

IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT MY IDEAS,
WHY SHOULD I SUPPORT YOURS ?

quid pro quo

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-04-09 06:45:23)

Léonard · 2019-04-09 12:53:15

breezeknight wrote:

IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT MY IDEAS,
WHY SHOULD I SUPPORT YOURS ?

Forgive me but that's the dumbest way you could go about this.
Yeah let's all go in a corner on our own and talk to no one, great solution.
If your ideas just don't stand up on their own, it's your own fault.

Tarr wrote:

Jason seems to be against the idea of making larger containers.

Why?
But more seriously, why?
It's a well known fact that the ability to mass produce and have excess food (or even other goods) is the essence of more advanced civilizations, yet Jason complains that our civilizations don't move past small sharing villages. What?
It's like you're begging for clutter to happen at this point.
It's no use being able to produce excess goods if you can't even create the means to store it.

As for a solution, simple.
Create more storage, but not just any kind of storage.
Specialized storage.
Because yes, I agree that general storage tech as of right now doesn't need to get better.
We should get specialized storage.
Tool racks for tools, tables (or anything really) for gathering various foods together, silos for wheat (or even for salt, imagine being able to store salt for sauerkraut production), closets for clothes, etc...
Maybe even shelves to encourage buildings in which you can stock plates and bowls.

The essence of the problem is that tiles are 1 meters square and you can only put one type of item inside a tile.
If you were to code in the ability to stack different types of objects in the same tile, we would still have a mess except this time denser and uglier than before.
That's why general storage tech isn't really the solution.
Having stacks of objects can help as it is specialized in some way (you can only stack the same type of items on each other) but using it to solve all of our mess problems is naive at best.
You'd just end up with piles and piles of random stuff around the camp.
Are we playing katamari or are we playing a survival civilization builder?
Jason expects OHOL civilizations to evolve past sharing villages.
In other words, he wants an organized society to arise.
Well, do you want to allow an organized society to organize itself and its village or do you want it to stay in a nonsensical infinite mess?

Specialized storage enables (and encourages in the game) a society to organize itself better and produce, stock and organize excess goods so that it can develop itself further.
Going against this idea while simultaneously asking for civilizations to evolve past sharing villages seems like nonsense to me.

breezeknight · 2019-04-09 13:57:28

Léonard wrote:

breezeknight wrote:
IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT MY IDEAS,
WHY SHOULD I SUPPORT YOURS ?
Forgive me but that's the dumbest way you could go about this.
Yeah let's all go in a corner on our own and talk to no one, great solution.
If your ideas just don't stand up on their own, it's your own fault.

taking quotes out of context, yeah, it fits

what's the use of talking down ideas of other people while supporting only the own & similar ?

i am tolerant
i support ideas even if i find them not that compelling but because they are important to the other player, but that's just me oc

lack of support for the other is the common theme not only here in forums but also in game
that's why i talk often about what i perceive in game,
egoistic players who care only for what they have in mind, playing as if it was singleplayer among or against AI

some players said, this game is about cooperation & communication
i wish it would, if out of 10 kids are 6 /dying or out of 8 are 5 /dying, that's not social, only an indication of a deeper problem - the rampant egoism
same goes for the other side, being born as baby has the same ratio of being abandoned or even directly killed
& that's only about direct lack of cooperation in a game which stands & falls with its functionality as multiplayer
there is widely spread lack consideration for the effects of the own actions on the other players, no respect middle in a multiplayer

but well, what is to expect from players who play mostly shooters & RPG where they just fight endlessly

- - -

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-04-08 16:50:58

Trash and Decay update.

#2 2019-04-08 17:01:33

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#3 2019-04-08 17:10:57

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#4 2019-04-08 17:26:50

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#5 2019-04-08 17:31:16

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#6 2019-04-08 17:31:57

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#7 2019-04-08 17:42:33

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#8 2019-04-08 17:50:53

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#9 2019-04-08 17:54:17

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#10 2019-04-08 17:55:13

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#11 2019-04-08 18:04:09

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#12 2019-04-08 18:11:44

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#13 2019-04-08 18:36:04

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#14 2019-04-08 19:37:38

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#15 2019-04-08 20:31:17

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#16 2019-04-08 20:33:19

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#17 2019-04-08 20:38:18

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#18 2019-04-08 21:04:29

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#19 2019-04-08 22:43:08

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#20 2019-04-09 00:35:59

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#21 2019-04-09 01:21:48

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#22 2019-04-09 01:38:35

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#23 2019-04-09 06:36:43

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#24 2019-04-09 12:53:15

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#25 2019-04-09 13:57:28

Re: Trash and Decay update.

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