Other off-the-wall ideas for "making you really care"?

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-03 16:21:13

Twisted, there's also a 24-hour thing, where bans are not kept longer than that, even if you haven't played any lives in between.

Tarr · 2019-04-03 16:24:04

jasonrohrer wrote:

I'm wondering if it's really the area ban that's the problem...

You have to remember for a single person to revisit the same area twice or before with the lineage ban they either need to play one and a half hours elsewhere or wait twenty four hours. On paper this would seem fine as just go play 90 minutes elsewhere but unless you're going to kill yourself early just to sneak back somewhere you're going to end up playing the game for three hours.

Life A: You have a good life, live to sixty and are now banned.
Life B: Same deal, live to sixty and are still banned to town A (two hours played)
Life C: Get old, die, finally be eligible to go back to town A (three hours played now)

So if you are playing the game correctly (not suiciding at weird ages to avoid bans, not killing yourself needlessly) you are looking to play three hours a day to be able to spend your fourth hour playing in the first town for a second time. So unless players are investing a lot of time playing or the lineage is moving around to try to avoid area ban you won't see the same town twice in one day limiting the amount of players who can return.

Spoonwood · 2019-04-03 16:34:11

jasonrohrer wrote:

In real life, we don't care about our family, tribe, city, state, nation, or planet because its survival "buys" us a ticket to come back in future lives.

I don't and you don't sure. But, some people do believe in reincarnation or an afterlife. So, some people might actually care for such a reason. No, it's not just one life to them. They aren't really a minority of people on the planet either.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I don't really want you to care about your family or village long-term, across generations and lives. After you're dead, you're dead. I want you to REALLY care now, though. If invaders came in, I'd want you to care enough to stop them.

O. K.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I'm also perplexed that there have been no extremely long or even eternal family lines.

Huh? You just said above that you don't want people to care about their village long-term. But, you feel surprised that no extremely long lines exist? If people don't feel like caring about their family long-term, then they don't have the motivation to come as part of an extremely long line. If they do want to come as part of an extremely long line, then they care about their family long-term.

jasonrohrer wrote:

My other suggestion for getting reborn in the same family to make you really care now might work (or it might backfire and not work), but it's making you care now because of some concrete "later" benefit to yourself. It's making you care about THIS life because of what it will trigger for you in future lives. That seems like its missing the mark.

I don't think that people who do not 'sin' in this life, because of the belief in an afterlife (and the goodness of their/the divine source), feel like they have missed the mark. I would guess that to a religious believer someone who lives ethically just because ends up not having as good a character as someone who does so, because of the divine saying that such should work that way.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I don't want what happens to you in future lives to matter. At its heart, this is supposed to be a one hour game.

If players feel that way, then it's not likely that they will care about lineage length.

jasonrohrer wrote:

So even if you're playing that way, you should still really care. Even if you're playing that way, the sample story about sneaking into another town to steal a car and save your daughter's future should be possible and likely.

About lineage length? The other player is a person with their own ambitions, desires, and goals.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I want you frigging lecturing your kids about the importance of safety, the way real parents do.

The other person comes as an adult who may well know more about the game than the mom from the moment of his/her birth. Honestly, such lecturing just encourages disrespect of other players.

jasonrohrer wrote:

But I want to amp that up so that the same level of importance is placed on every child.

Then boys would have to matter just as much to lineages as girls do at present. However, then average lineage length WILL decrease and we'd end up with more early-generation camps.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I'm also perplexed that there have been no extremely long or even eternal family lines. 288 is the record, on a less-populated server, and 11 months ago. The usual weekly record never tops 80. That's 19 hours, and is impressive, but.... it's clear to me that it's just not important enough to anyone. I envisioned people hopping on discord during desperate times and trying to recruit players to keep the flame burning through the night.

That isn't a one-hour project. People also don't get to choose the families they get born into. Griefing exists. So does boredom and preference for Eve camps.

On top of that, that's only the line of descent numbers. If you brought back Eve-chaining with more than four fertile females around (LostScholar has recently commented that he wishes such would come back: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/405487703), and added in each time the Eve reappears and has a new family, then those lineage numbers could end up longer. Also, eternal family lines currently come as impossible as I understand it. The update happens which requires that a server get completely emptied, thus necessitating the death of every family when the update comes.

The biggest problem with the family line number comes as the requirement that they have continuous existence. There do exist ways of having family lines still die while allowing for non-continuous existence, at least in concept (I make no pretension about these sorts of ideas as easy to code). One way would consist of the family line dying out only if a certain number of murders occur. Or the last girl gets murdered. Or the last girl starves.

Here's an idea, which I think which makes living to 60 matter and satisfies multiple desires at once. The family name WILL come back to life if someone in the last generation (excluding suicidal babies), MALE OR FEMALE, lives to 60. Otherwise the family name is dead. If someone in the last generation lives to 60, and there are no more children, then some Eve will pop into that village at some point in time with that family name. Since it's both male and female, both males and females matter with respect to the lineage at some point in time. Generation length also can more feasibly increase, survive a low-population player period, AND survive an update. It would also make that last generation life matter instead of having a bunch of middle-aged men standing around saying something like 'it's over... kill me now' as I've seen happen before. And people wouldn't necessarily do silly things during their last life, they would come as more likely to try to improve the conditions of the village for others.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-04-03 16:34:26)

fragilityh14 · 2019-04-03 16:41:15

Jason, I think you're the only other person who cares there haven't been "infinite" lines, i've been talking about this for months!

What don't get, is that no expeditions are sent out. Honestly, our CITIES are living long eough, cause you figure, at 20 years a generation, plenty of great city states arose and died in 50 generations or less.

But, no one wants to spread out. People with the mod don't like if you're in the wilds and aren't eve, I dunno why. I know lineage ban was part of the problem then area ban was too large.

I've partially stopped running off so much because the main cities have enough trouble surviving, so i've started feeling bad about being a talented female player who leaves.

Still, Eve should be very rare, the entire population shouldn't just be going extinct.

Anyway, most of these ideas are too zany. I do have an idea to make long term survival of more interest, but that's the opposite of making them the most interested in only that life.

Currently, things either spawn i believe in 2 hours at the longest, if you hunt a rabbit without a family. There is also the "one state change per viewing"

The map culls periodically, but I think it's what, every week? amazingly, you can still find tons of new spawn relatively near established towns. I've gotten pretty good at following these patterns, to find other cities etc [I know you don't play the game a ton, the practical application here is for example if all the cactii are flowering but not fruiting a person has been there, but only once]

anyway, what if there was something that took 6, or 12, or even 24 hours to spawn? Or better yet, what if it too 6 one hour state changes, but expired in a single state change, so in order for people to get resource they needed to consistently be in the same spot for a long period of time.

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-03 16:43:40

Server reset is once a week, usually. That can't be the reason that no family line has ever lasted more than 33 hours in recent times.

fragilityh14 · 2019-04-03 16:49:05

if that was in response to me i was simply referring to when the server resets land, as it relates to spawn rates and where people have been etc. The resets are for sure not the reason family lines aren't lasting long.

I did want to mention, PLEASE give us descendant numbers on lineage server, it's very tedious trying to navigate through to find the surviving lines. i think that in and of itself would make people care more.

BladeWoods · 2019-04-03 17:16:15

I feel some attatchment to my lineage thanks to the family tree browser, so any improvements to that would be nice. Could there be a way to just visually see/watch living people in your lineage after you die? But only your lineage. You don't get to watch others. Seeing that could add a ton more meaning to what you leave behind when you can see what you left behind. And only the living, so when your lineage dies you lose the feature.

And not a crazy idea, but a reduced or maybe even 0% chance for your kids to have a skin mutation could help you identify which people are of your lineage and which aren't. Also the specific character model could have an inheritance chance as well.

How long does the /die lineage ban last? If it's permanent, perhaps it shouldn't be. It could be part of what's killing old towns. (I also think stone walls don't help longevity of a town.)

fragilityh14 · 2019-04-03 17:23:22

/die is 1.5 hours of playtime or 24 real hours i believe.

just some way to punish /die'ers so they can't do that into being Eve so easily could help. it's really a dick move, none of the rest of us almost ever get to be eve, and it dilutes all the lines.

I almost wonder how much just increasing the time it will wait before spawning you as an Eve would change things. You know, if the birth cooldown is 90 seconds just the game being willing to wait another 30 seconds before making you Eve would have an impact.

Tarr · 2019-04-03 17:30:22

/die or any sort of ban trigger is 1.5 hours unless its being murdered which ups the ban time to three hours. Any of the ban triggers will pretty much lock any casual players of the game out for the cities entire lifespan since most last < 24 hours, and only the more hardcore crowd will end up revisiting towns unless using cheese strategies or having multiple accounts.

At the very least moving from playtime to real time encourages someone to take a break instead of grinding out the ability to revisit whatever town they like though I'm not sure this would 100% solve the problem.

Dodge · 2019-04-03 17:52:37

Unless you are able to simulate real human emotions and put them in the game i dont know how you are going to pull that off, human brain is not stupid if you know it's not real you cant pretend it is even if you can temporarily forget it isn't

You say music, graphics, special effects etc is cheating but is it really in a simulation? and does it really matter?

If you really want us to care for something that we know isn't real then you have to make us forget that it isn't (immersion)

To pull this off you have to go way deeper into human psychology and what triggers emotions and how to adapt it into a simulation

You gave examples of movies and tarantino why not make the game a step closer to a movie with special effects, music, angles, lighting etc..

Maybe the death of you child would play a sad music and the screen gets darker for a while, no food is yum anymore...

If the village is doing good and there is plenty of people play a song that gives a feeling of prosperity and accomplishement, the screen gets brighter and every food is delicious for some time.

Add art in the game and more ways of expression, right now the game is too linear and impersonal from a player's perspective, you cant draw or make music, you cant add your personnal touch unless you use buildings as a drawing medium.

Sure there is /emotions and if someone dies and everyone is /sad then you feel maybe 1/10 2/10 sad behind your computer screen but it's still far away from 10/10.

But what if someone was angry at you, you would actually feel it, anger inducing sounds or music plays, your screen shakes slightly and has a slight red filter to it.

As a baby you would have a very small field of view representing your view of the world, being far from your mom would be really scary, an unsettling music starts playing, your screen has a dark gloom to it (visual representation of fear)

And being held by her would give a feeling of peace and security, peaceful/calm music playing, screen is brighter with calming colored filter.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-04-03 18:02:12

jasonrohrer wrote:

I don't really want you to care about your family or village long-term, across generations and lives. After you're dead, you're dead. I want you to REALLY care now, though. If invaders came in, I'd want you to care enough to stop them.

Oooh, I get this. And you're totally right, we ought to care now. A bond formed with another character/player is its own reward - someone I can talk to about the ups and downs of the hour, someone who will notice if I disappear while on a rabbit run.

How can you gamify that bond? Add a mechanic where you say some words that trigger a display showing you how that player is doing? Location, distance, wounded or dead, hunger or starvation, number of living children?

Can people with the most shared bonds get benefits that impact how they live the current life? Inspired by all your friendships, you can suddenly move faster???

jasonrohrer wrote:

t.... Maybe some other form of "live" leaderboard that shows the deceased player with the current largest number of descendants. Thus, it's not necessarily a long line, but a broad line that counts.

I like this idea. I really like seeing the stats that Whatever put together, and realizing how good I've gotten at being a mom. Please make it easier to figure out how many generations survive after us, instead of what generation we were. My goal is eight generations surviving after me.

jasonrohrer wrote:

--One Eve on a server, ever... after the family dies out, the server is wiped. Death of a family = death of the world. Everyone clustered around (0,0), just like the old days, but to keep that sprawling civ going, some baby needs to survive. Big problem with Eve getting overrun by babies at the start. Maybe excess players are spawned nearby as Adams in the beginning.

This is actually what I assumed would be happening when I first started playing the game. You'd probably need to set up more servers, but each one wouldn't need to be nearly as big.

jasonrohrer wrote:

--Really crazy: What if you only got ONE LIFE each hour. Gosh, how this would change the game dramatically in so many ways. If you lived to 60 each time, you could play continuously. But if you ever died early, you'd spend the rest of the hour cooling off. Goodbye baby suicide. Every baby would indeed be precious to both the mother and the baby. Also goodbye to my financial success.

I'm one of those people who plays obsessively for hours at a time, and.... I like this idea. But that's partly because I'm an experienced player. I live to 60 MOST of the time, unless I choose not to.

You'd need to have this be something that depends on how many total hours of gameplay the person has. First twenty hours or so, let people have infinite lives per hour. Then when they've played 20-40 hours they can have two lives per hour. Advanced players get only one life per hour.

Maybe test it out on a specific weekday during the day, so we can see what it's like before committing completely.

After all, there are lots of other things related to OHOL you can do while you are temporarily banned... comment in the forums, in the reddit, lurk on the discord.... Yeah, I might be slightly obsessed with this game.

Villas · 2019-04-03 18:19:02

I know why there aren`t eternal or very long family lines.
At 6 A.M (GMT -3), the servers stops for some minutes. Who is logged in keeps playing, but who died or just opened the game, cannot login until 6:15 A.M more or less, just when the population is very low, people can't login for some minutes, what ends up killing several families.
Also, whe the game updates, it looks like the servers doesn't allow logins for some minutes as well, every single update that I witnessed ended up on killing all the families.
I've seen a town last month, that lasted two weeks more or less (the town with a big road), but almost every morning the family name changed.

Another reason is: there aren't much thing to do. That town, that I referred, had cars, planes, several radios, a huge road, there were a lot of outposts and two bell towns connected to that bell town.

We need some new kind of technology that allows towns to specialize on some kind of production (A high tech machine, extreme hard to make that can produce jeans with pockets, advanced back packs, canned beans and etc), it would motivate trade between towns and a new hard kind of job, that only would be avaliable in a long family line that built that high tech machine specialized on some kind of production.

Amon · 2019-04-03 18:41:35

Dodge wrote:

-/-

You know an even worse vision field around a baby would make...being a baby very scary time indeed, and also baby tours very unconvenient.
More emotions yes, even if it's fear.

But we'd then need better baby carrying options since it'll be even harder to make children survive (if people are trying to save their family, give them the resources to do so.) Quite a few babies are born in the middle of no-where, away from the safety of their mothers.

Gosh imagine being born while your mother is running around, you have no idea where she went or how she looks like, it's just blackness around your tiny bubble. any person picking you up is a stranger and taking care of you in this very scary time.

I think I as a man or old nana ended up 'stealing' away children from some women who then came back too late, wanting the lost child back..
Well, the child then wailed and kept running from their biological mother back to me screaming they are being kidnapped.
Boy that was hillarious xD

Also on the caring thing and bonds? Maybe people you spend a lot of time around give off some heat, have people like spending time next to eachother and maybe chatter will commence if it gives some benefit, or inquiries to go in pairs perhaps.

pein · 2019-04-03 19:51:15

i dont want to pay too much extra, like per life
what if i met someone and kills me at age 5 for no reason? completely worthless experience for me
or if i kill someone who ruins a city but others kill me for it not knowing what he did?

i would be okay to pay for content updates, or to activate new modes, like this deathmatch, i mean i got enough hours out of this game so if its optional content it would worth dropping 5-10 dollars time to time

if its game currency, like i could live to old age and that would matter, or my actions per minute matter, or reaching milestones. cause it would make my life easier.

like what if you can choose to be an eve, but only if you lived to 55+ previously.
for example the first eves are allowed, but then only people who reach elder stage are allowed the start new civilizations?
or even harder, they need to live twice to old age to allow them to eve?
or having 100 or 200 hours of gameplay has some perks to it?

if you want to engage competition, then you need a family score and a personal score.
what about special items only for high score families?
you would need to make sure all kids survive or you get penalized on score.
sounds fun for an event but not for logn term gameplay, tired to be a hero or savior all the time when no one knows about it.

as i said, some sort of family tree, like in sims, showing small faces in side panel, max 10 people, you need to build a totem to raise your cap of people, you would see how many people are in the family, where they are at (direction, not exact location). you would also receive death messages.
i think that starving people could be saved for a short time, would be a good mechanic to help people care, right now you cant really say that we should follow kids to feed them all their life, thats tedious work. cant even teach people if they dont want to learn.

we dont have the time to feed everyone, teach everyone, track everyone
help us with some better ways of communication
cheaper letters, person markers just as home markers but to find others
also some sort of city territory, and inside it you receive news about deaths, births and people asking for help, soem sort of beacon which is activated and you need to go close and accept to teach/help them, or maybe refuse or delay it.

the raise kids concept is good, might be better if you would get some points each time they reach age 5-15-25-35-45-55
this points could be used for some cosmetics? make your next life easier somehow? set you apart from others? like glowing baby?

i would like any bonus to personal or family tree which isnt really disturbing gameplay and i think a lot of people would like to show off with some cool items, yellow paint? green paint? you could paint a clothing on yourself and would only work for you. its isnt much help to survive but makes you unique and others know you are a good player, or at least good mother.

if you would link town territories and families, some sort of decay could happen each time people die. for example if the kids starve running for berries, suddenly your pies become decaying, 5 minutes and you lose them. the walls start crumbling, maybe some sort of sickness if the bones are left inside city.

i like the adams idea, you would need to convince girls to go with you from spawn city.
the two eves are ok too. but what about some knockout phase? if your family dies, the city is lost, you need to win againt the other family somehow, but not just two, maybe 8.
each time you win, the map starts to become smaller, you need to go clsoer to center, but not too close, you can only go one belt inside, win against next family. the winner who can beat other families survives. the server resets. or just the coordinates shift around.

i also like the limited daily lives, maybe per server? 3 hours.

you could do some events with different rules to test the ideas out. it would be a fresh take on game. each server different ruleset, open for a few days. but the normal game should stay as it is on bigserver.

what about an automatic apocalypse? where you need to neutralize the nosaj by offering sacrifices.
this would let an area to exist, if not the city gets wiped. the people need to go out and find the nosaj before the time goes off. or move to other city or make a new city.

my main issue is tracking others. how do i even know how many people are in city or they are boys, girls, old, young?
sure awbz can track it, but still not showing young or old guys, or more detailed info. or maybe we could set nicknames for them to remember who they are.

Spoonwood · 2019-04-03 20:13:29

jasonrohrer wrote:

Server reset is once a week, usually. That can't be the reason that no family line has ever lasted more than 33 hours in recent times.

In real life people take breaks from work or go to sleep. In OHOL, enough family members need to continuously do productive things and someone has to always be 'awake', as family lines come as continuous at present. The biggest obstacle to longer family lines lies in the requirement for families to have continuous existence. If families didn't need continuous existence, say by allowing players in the family to get reborn into that spot as an Eve if *he* or she lived to sixty, or a member of the last generation *who lived to 60 so that the family is still on the line*, then family lines may well end up as longer. Of course though, as other have pointed out, creative projects more seem to come as needed in the early game than the late game. Consequently, even were it the case that non-continuous family lines could happen that people would have all that much interest in longer lineages isn't exactly clear. In the end people do get to choose whether they find longer family lines valuable or not.

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-03 20:21:40

I'm pretty sure the thing that was happening every day at 6:15 am has been fixed now. That was because the mobile devs were filling up the logs with bad requests, so backing up the databases was taking forever. Should be fixed now, right?

I better make a graph of birth times on bigserver2 just to check....

Greep · 2019-04-03 20:58:24

Didn't read the rest of the thread, these are some fun idea to play around with, though:

--Cash prizes for long-lived families. The longer the family lives, the bigger the prize, maybe with each person rewarded in proportion to the fraction of the family tree that descended from them. Even living a single life, if you did good for your family, could result in a substantial prize.

|| I don't think this is sustainable long term. And I don't really like the idea of how it fits in with the griefing meta.

--Some other kind of exterior reward for descendants that survive a long time. A leader-board for Eve's? Not sure why the descendants would care to boost their Eve's standing, and we kinda already have this on the family tree browser, but.... Maybe some other form of "live" leaderboard that shows the deceased player with the current largest number of descendants. Thus, it's not necessarily a long line, but a broad line that counts.

|| Currently excessive Eveing can kill a whole server at night, not sure it should be encouraged or rewarded.

--One Eve on a server, ever... after the family dies out, the server is wiped. Death of a family = death of the world. Everyone clustered around (0,0), just like the old days, but to keep that sprawling civ going, some baby needs to survive. Big problem with Eve getting overrun by babies at the start. Maybe excess players are spawned nearby as Adams in the beginning.

|| I like the idea, but the family will never get wiped. Even dedicated griefers would have issues killing a server with several people being born per minute. If the capital falls it will just be rebuilt. Veterans have no issue surviving in the wilds temporarily.

--Two Eves on a server, with visually distinct family lines. Players are divided at random between one of these two families randomly, and permanently. When one family goes extinct, the other family "wins", and the server is wiped to start the whole process over again.

|| My thoughts would be the Eve death site would become a permanent object, and people would have to win capture the flag style. Otherwise, nomading would make this impossible. I also think it'd just be viewed as the apocalypse. The "winner" pretty much loses too.

--Really crazy: What if you only got ONE LIFE each hour. Gosh, how this would change the game dramatically in so many ways. If you lived to 60 each time, you could play continuously. But if you ever died early, you'd spend the rest of the hour cooling off. Goodbye baby suicide. Every baby would indeed be precious to both the mother and the baby. Also goodbye to my financial success.

|| I actually thought of and might be doing something like this on my server, so of course I like this idea :3. The idea is, you have "limbo" (which is the current town xyzzy), and you have the competitive city, which is reset every week (three days is probably enough on the main server). And if you die from something other than old age in the competitive city you are stuck in limbo. If you want to stay in limbo, you can just suicide. It's like auto-newbie tutorial as well, since they will die and be sent somewhere easy but maybe boring.

You would need to have some grace period as the new city is being made up though, like 12 hours or something. It would be unfair if Eve abandoned you in the first minute.

There could be some enticement to staying in the competitive city. Like only being able to be named or have a lineage recorded, there.

--Return to roots.... One Dollar One Hour One Life. You pay $1 per life, but if your descendant tree gets big enough, you get free lives that add up in a life bank. Having your family survive after you doesn't buy you lives in that family, but instead free lives in general (in other families, wherever).

|| I.e. poor people can't play, rich people can

--You only get a fixed number of lives each day. Having your descendants live long buys you extra lives each day.

|| Same as above concerning limbo, people should be able to play somewhere, perhaps just boring.

Last edited by Greep (2019-04-04 00:33:52)

Glassius · 2019-04-03 21:07:12

If you want players to do something, reward them for it! With things, players are requesting for! I've brought once the idea of life tokens.

How to loose it
1. Once every hour a life token is lost.
2. Once per death a life token is lost, unless it is from the old age.
3. Being cursed enough times.
4. With the extinction of your last lineage

How to gain it
1. Receive enough blesses
2. Die of old age
3. With every generation which is born to your last lineage

What to spend them for
1. Extended lifespan
2. Extra hunger pip
3. Being reborn to chosen lineage or closest woman to the chosen grave or home marker
4. Ability to make full sentences as toddler
5. Golden speak bubble (extremaly costly), so other players will see how skillful you are. This will give a real authority golden crowns are lacking, so we can have real rulers and prophets

This system is flexible. If you see there is too less/much of certain behaviour, you can adjust prices for rewards or change the rules for gaining/loosing them. This will also make this game more rewarding to power players, people will have progress posiive feedback. You will add some grind to the game and reasong to take care about developed cities.

What this system lacks, is detection of sophisticated events, like trades or truces. It for sure it will be a way you Jason can show us your will and convince us to do as it pleases you!

Last edited by Glassius (2019-04-03 21:07:58)

Mushroom · 2019-04-03 21:48:28

How about this:
When a family you were part of and lived to 55-60 reachest some distant generation, for instance 100 you could get a reward of tier 1.
When a family lives past 200, 300 etc you can get rewards of tier 2 and 3.
The higher the tier is, the more value the reward has.
The rewards could consist of cosmetic changes. I am thinking about special birthmarks, different eye colour, some cool hairstyles, chesthair (xd), lots of stuff (coolness and complicity could depend on the tier)
The item you get rewarded with could be chosen by eve, who stared the lineage.

Then, when you start your game you can see all your items in some kind of "backpack" like in other games with items. You get to choose if you want them on your character next life, or if you got more than one you could choose which ones should be active.

The tier of reward should also be influenced by the number of people who lived in that lineage to certain age - this could make players to keep as many babies as possible, also to keep boys.

I think this is great motivation to really keep the lineage going. It does make you care for the current lineage, it makes you fight for it if there is a danger around, but it also doesn't make you "stuck" in that one lineage. If you die, you die. You did your best to preserve family legacy and now just really hope for it to thrive. You also just pop into another life and reapeat the cycle.

Last edited by Mushroom (2019-04-03 21:49:46)

breezeknight · 2019-04-09 07:28:11

CARE has to be rewarded within the gameplay

that's why we need the option of BLESSING in game

it should be discussed what should be the reward for enough blessings
i have no immediate suggestions (see one below)

also
LACK OF CARE has to be punished

we have already sort of "natural currency" in game & that's the hunger bar

but i am not really supportive to extend the hunger bar as reward
i am only for the limit to it as punishment

what should be punished ?

eg
you get cursed 4 times, one pip less in game until you get 4 blessings !
4 babies died with you, the mother one after another for numerous reasons - one hunger pip less for the bad mother
(& before you say, a mother shouldn't be punished for players /dying on them)
you /die 4 times, one pip less already as baby
also extend the care to the own kin
4 of your kin die not of high age while you are alive, one pip less
4 of your kin get murdered, one pip less
...

players have to feel in game the consequences of their in game actions
atm egoistic behaviour is rampant

yeah, there are still nice helpful people
but the egotists playing singleplayer without any consideration for the players around are everywhere
this is not any sort of community building

with the coming property update it can just get worse

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-04-09 21:32:08)

breezeknight · 2019-04-09 07:31:26

the other thing this game needs is

MORE POWER for the EVE

an Eve should be more than the first female

- - -

AstroTitan · 2019-04-09 12:18:55

jasonrohrer wrote:

I'm also perplexed that there have been no extremely long or even eternal family lines.
I don't think population drop is the central cause:
It never really drops below 60 people. That's a lot of people. Enough for at least 3 towns to survive through the night.

I'm not sure how to say this without causing offense, but please know none is intended. Jason, I feel that you don't have an accurate perception of the average players in-game. If you have hidden stats that contradict what I am about to say then I concede my point. But my many hours of observations in-game seem to clash with your perception of what is happening in-game.

I completely agree that 60 semi-competent players is enough to keep 3+ towns flourishing without issue, and even combat the efforts of griefers. But I feel the root of the long lineage problem lies in the distribution of experienced players to new players and griefers.

Out of those ~60 players each night, spread across lets say 3 towns and I'm guessing 2-5 Eve camps, where are the 15 or so players that actually know how to keep a town alive? What about an hour later? I've been born into plenty of towns that are completely stocked with resources and food by people who clearly knew what they were doing, just to end my life in the same town with food running out, no compost piles, no iron, dry wells, fields of carrot seeds and dying berry bushes, etc. because there was a population boom and very few actually contributed meaningfully or potentially even knew how to.

As a mother I do my best to ask every one of my children how much they know as I give them village tours, and offer to teach them anything they want to learn (assuming we are not in desperate need of food or resources).

From my observations, at any given time out of the total population: (yes this is a bit generalized)
~30% know a few random things well (compost, farming, smithing, or cooking, etc.), but that is about it
~25% know most things or are competent enough in-game to easily figure new things out themselves (probably the majority who are reading this fit here)
~20% are effectively completely new and know virtually nothing (50/50 chance they can tend berries)
~15% don't react when talked to, beyond basic TY or HI, and just wander around eating without meaningfully contributing (maybe just language barrier?)
~10% are intentionally griefing for "reasons"
***A means to know these percentages for real would be awesome, especially if you could correlate it with the end of each lineage***

Yes this is absolutely dynamic and there are times when seemingly everyone is contributing meaningfully and towns flourish. But more often than not the 25% who actually know what needs to be done are running around trying to keep the town alive and unable to stop long enough to properly teach anything to the new people, or the town fails. Also of that 25% I'd venture to guess that at-least half have spent multiple lives teaching the same thing to many people, which gets monotonous so they just don't anymore. As a result those not taught properly experiment and often do things considered griefing without knowing any better and some are even killed for it. That experienced 25% also has to try counterbalancing the 25% that are effectively just food sinks, or outright harmful intentionally.

RNG births in any given town can easily result (I've seen it happen dozens of times) in an entire town of 6+ without a single other player that knows how to do more than one selective task. As I run around gathering resources, smithing needed tools, making compost, etc like a madman because someone needs to if the town is going to survive. I have no time to teach someone how to do any of it in that madness. I try to delegate some easier tasks, but when you need to stop for 3 years and explain the simplest of things for the 100th time.... you just don't. You do it in 2 sec and move on because time is probably the most valuable resource in OHOL.

My suggestion if the goal is longer lineages: find a way to more evenly distribute your experienced players. For example, like the mandatory tutorial, have a mandatory "survey" on your first login each week/update. Takes <1 min to fill out and would allow you to "distribute the knowledge" more evenly across the server. A simpler way is just a 1-10 slider on the login screen for players to set their "perceived experience level". It should be relatively easy to tie that into the baby spawning decisions, just try to maintain a balanced "collective experience" in all villages. If a village/lineage falls below average they automatically get experienced players (or those who claim to be) spawning, instead of brand new players. On the flip side, villages that are above the experience curve probably have the bandwidth to actually teach their children properly, so they are ideal places for new players to spawn. This would certainly curtail what I believe accounts for at least half of all lineage collapses.

Statistically every lineage will encounter an entire generation of "new" players at some point and when that happens there's a high likelihood that lineage fails soon after.

I also like the idea of some form of consequence or limits for /DIE, as that alone can easily end long lineages.

Please be careful adding additional monetary requirements to play the game. I understand that if designed properly "good" players should never need to pay, but new players would have to pay every time. So I imagine that would only serve reduce active player counts further.

Glassius · 2019-04-09 13:08:27

breezeknight, how can I support your suggestions. Do you place them on Reddit? Do you give a link to upvote them?

AstroTitan
Your suggestion would match my about life tokens beautifully. More experienced players will have more tokens, making them more able to start in developing villages. I will post it on Reddit in the evening

breezeknight · 2019-04-09 21:30:32

Glassius, the reddit suggestions, i make those only if i have one short & worked out
my reddit name is frankin5en5e
i have there few
in general my suggestions are unpopular
though everybody was happy as Jason introduced apron (my suggestion was a belt) & stackable carrots (one of my stackable objects suggestions)

i wrote here in the thread because it's a thread by Jason about "care"
so a good place to write i hope

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-04-09 21:37:33)

antking:]# · 2019-04-09 23:39:51

breezeknight wrote:

the other thing this game needs is
MORE POWER for the EVE
an Eve should be more than the first female
- - -

idea - eve should be GOD immortally giving children to populate her garden of Eden...

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