Trash and Decay update.

Léonard · 2019-04-09 14:49:58

breezeknight wrote:

taking quotes out of context, yeah, it fits

How was it out of context?
You were just complaining that only a handful of players supported your idea and then all of the sudden you say "if no one supports my suggestions, why should I support yours?".
Yeah, great thinking there.

breezeknight wrote:

what's the use of talking down ideas of other people while supporting only the own & similar ?

If by "talking down" you mean "pointing out flaws and making proper arguments", then the use goes without saying.
The use is that at the end of the day, the game gets better.
That's how constructive criticism works.
You give me an idea, I point out certain aspects about it and from there we can conclude that the idea is good or bad and judge it on its own merits.
Again, if your ideas don't stand up on their own, it's your own fault.

breezeknight wrote:

lack of support for the other is the common theme not only here in forums but also in game

Seriously?
You think I bother to properly make arguments against or for certain ideas just so I can make my life easier?
The very fact that I'm responding to you should show that I'm not just thinking about myself here.
You're free to argument against or for my ideas and from there we can judge them on their own merit.
But no. You'd rather just spout nonsense about people not caring enough about each other instead.

breezeknight wrote:

what is to expect from players who play mostly shooters & RPG where they just fight endlessly

You know, even in FPS and RPG games you have cooperation.
Ever heard of team deathmatch?
You ever heard of the theory that games like these actually increase cooperation skills rather than decrease them?

But nah, games like these are fundamentally violent and therefor make individuals violent and transform people into mass murderers, am I right?

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-04-09 14:57:23

breezeknight wrote:

& i also want to say one thing to the "community"
IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT MY IDEAS,
WHY SHOULD I SUPPORT YOURS ?
quid pro quo
- - -

This is really off putting.

For one thing, everything is up to Jason. He is king and high-commander of OHOL, and this is not a democracy nor a republic.

IMHO, You are identifying too strongly with your stacking ideas.

I absolutely support you Breezeknight, having a voice in our community. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree with every idea, or even most of the ideas, you post. Because supporting a person and supporting their ideas is, in fact, two different things.

I have zero interest in your "quid pro quo". When I make a suggestion, I'd rather hear your true opinion.

breezeknight · 2019-04-09 21:19:50

i voice my true opinion
but i will also support a suggestion if i don't think it endangers any gameplay

& what dangers lie in stackability of some of the objects ? like poo ? or meat ? or tomatoes ?

but no

"all objects should not be stackable, the world will crumble if we had stackable meat,
we should build not only first but SOLELY elaborate shelves & whatnot before we can get some order into the chaos"

just look through the suggestions against stackability, they all are about introduction of additional craftable objects

only one player asked why we can't have both

yeah
why can't we have stackability & craftable containers ?

nope
craftable containers are THE ONLY OPTION according to those bored with simple life in OHOL

the community is falling apart in game
just play a run & you meat noobs not knowing what they are doing, nearly nobody helping them, pros who only smith or make now clothes like mad because that's the latest update, few work their butt off trying to get a hold of the chaos & some sprinkled griefers inbetween - some community

i bet those making the elaborate suggestions are "too advanced in their skill set" to bother with making compost or catching some rabbits

i barely see someone in a town even knowing how to fire up a newcomen pump, built oc by the pro players among us & doing the god sent work for all of us randos
kerosine pump, what's that ? many don't even know how to build a bucket & that you need to make a field of milkweed for that first or a saw & shot a goose inbetween
tools are spread throughout the whole town, lately i met one player who tried to throw into trash pit a broken steel tool, because broken, luckily Jason didn't program that into the game

as i said
i usually support everybody who is making some sensible suggestion
but if all i get as reply to a simple solution is more elaborate crafting added to all the elaborate crafting we already have, then i just have enough
the chaos won't disappear with new containers, new craftable objects will be just another elaborate thing waiting for the pros to be made while the rest either stands idle or is running from one urgent workplace to another barely having time to eat, lucky to have a backpack not falling apart

- - -

futurebird · 2019-04-09 21:35:18

breeze I get your frustration with stackable objects (look at my user icon, chosen before carrots got fixed) I do think you are being a bit dark sighted about "the community" I don't think it's changed much since I started playing. I'm a bit newer than most of you, but when I like a game I like it a lot and go deep on learning everything about it so maybe it was very different 3-4 months ago, but I kind of doubt it.

I suspect that us not getting more stackable object might be because it could be a lot of work to add, without being the kind of thing that generates new you tube videos and excitement. And I don't even think making this trade off is wrong. The game needs flashy fun new stuff to keep people coming in. I still think it has the potential to explode in popularity and I think a lot of that can depend on getting more good youTubers like twisted to show off the game. He's why I'm here.

Anyway. As long as the stacking issue is addressed from time to time I will be happy. But I understand the need to make content that not only is new and game changing (carrots stacking were game changing) but feels that way.

And yes some players have a kind of snobbiness where they are not paying attention to teaching newbies or the more mundane tasks. But, hasn't that always been true? Isn't that just how people ... are?

breezeknight · 2019-04-09 22:14:22

it wasn't always that way
before the decay update players had more time to teach noobs, the atmosphere was more relaxed
though it had the same building craze as now with all the stone wall rooms because the life was so easy

& about new players
youtube might recruit new players but are those who return to play ? or will they be gone after the newest fast paced game is out ?
you are rather an exception to the rule

i am not against flashy new updates but the last two brought upon us more chaos only short after the carrots update brought a tiny bit of bitterly needed order
i wrote that already few times, i believe, chaos in game makes players not to care & calls for a throwaway life
concentration on the flashy updates introduces players to the game which are selfish, short lived & unsupportive,
they come because of the glam, not because of how cooperative or comunicative the game is, resulting in a bad in game atmosphere

& i've given up on chaos by now
don't even try anymore
the only thing i do is bringing plates & broken steel tools to where they are needed
but everything else ... i am just running in circles in vanilla & can't find a tool next to me cause of all the stuff scattered everywhere without any organization

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-04-09 22:15:27)

antking:]# · 2019-04-09 23:33:11

People lets just get back to talking about the thread....

this always happen some one has a different opinion and then the discussion just spirals to bickering... can we just discuss ideas without jabbing fingers and complaining? or is against human nature?

Léonard · 2019-04-10 07:29:10

breezeknight wrote:

"all objects should not be stackable, the world will crumble if we had stackable meat,
we should build not only first but SOLELY elaborate shelves & whatnot before we can get some order into the chaos"
just look through the suggestions against stackability, they all are about introduction of additional craftable objects
only one player asked why we can't have both
yeah
why can't we have stackability & craftable containers ?
nope
craftable containers are THE ONLY OPTION according to those bored with simple life in OHOL

Nice strawman.
I never said we can't have both and in fact I even said they help a bit...
Part of my point was that they don't really solve the underlying problem which is that actual organization is hardly ever encouraged.
This was also Tarr's point initially back when he posted in your thread about stacks.
People only put bowls or plates in the bakery simply because they recognize its building or general location as such.
But never because there is a nice shelf or a nice tool rack here on which I could put my stuff without creating a general mess that no one likes to look at.
Organizing a town is crucial to prevent it from becoming a junkyard. If you put a closet in the nursery, maybe people will start putting clothes in there instead of on the ground?

My point was that they don't really solve the true problem at hand which is that Jason expects us to just live in the mess.
If he were to chime in and reply to this thread, I'd even bet he'd make a point along the lines of "the game should be hard enough that you never end up with a mess in the first place".
Because according to him, EVERYTHING should ALWAYS be a struggle. For no reason other than "it feels good when you accomplish something".
As if civilizations didn't evolve BECAUSE of the fact that things became easier and the quality of lives improved.
No, in this game, everything should be hard and a constant pain in the ass, and when people realize how boring that aspect of my game is and simply abandon big towns with infinite messes, I desperately wonder why my civilizations don't evolve.

breezeknight wrote:

i bet those making the elaborate suggestions are "too advanced in their skill set" to bother with making compost or catching some rabbits

I do actually bake pies and make compost when I'm not focused on tech.
Though I'll admit I absolutely never go chase rabbits but that's only because it is the second most boring thing in the entire game to do.
Not my fault the game is boring and empty in that aspect. Do you expect me to play games to punish myself or something?
It has nothing to do with ego...

But since you have no problem with stereotyping people, let me reverse it on you.
I bet you're the kind of player that never ever touches an oil tank or builds parts for the multipurpose Newcomen engine.
I bet you're one of those people who think the game is only about lineage length and nothing else.
I bet you think this game is pie baking simulator 3000.
People are akin to breeding machines and should do nothing other than survive, am I right?
Let's all just eat ourselves to death and make sure we pop dozens of babies that will do the same.

What's that? Someone suggested we have more crafting recipes that will allow us to solve our problems at hand while simultaneously using one of the main game mechanics for what it was made for?
Blasphemy! This doesn't help me survive!

breezeknight wrote:

i barely see someone in a town even knowing how to fire up a newcomen pump, built oc by the pro players among us & doing the god sent work for all of us randos
kerosine pump, what's that ? many don't even know how to build a bucket & that you need to make a field of milkweed for that first or a saw & shot a goose inbetween
tools are spread throughout the whole town
[...]
but if all i get as reply to a simple solution is more elaborate crafting added to all the elaborate crafting we already have, then i just have enough

How dare I suggest using one of the main game mechanics to solve one of our problems at hand?
You do know that crafting things is a fundamental part of the game and that it was actually implemented to do exactly this, solve the current problems we face as a civilization?
It's a survival civilization BUILDER, but god forbid I suggest we build stuff.
How inconsiderate of me.
We should instead never get any kind of complex content simply because a minority of lazy people don't want to get off of their ass and learn how to put together a few planks of wood and a rope to craft a shelf.
No way people would ever do that!!

breezeknight wrote:

new craftable objects will be just another elaborate thing waiting for the pros to be made while the rest either stands idle or is running from one urgent workplace to another barely having time to eat

Man, that says so much about how you think people play this game.
Yeah, this is a pie baking simulator and anyone building anything remotely complex is an egoist who doesn't care about other people.
People who sit there and call them assholes simply because they don't understand half of what's going on and treat them like they're heretics.
Would it shock you if I told you that apart from gathering the resources, building a diesel engine is actually easy?

breezeknight · 2019-04-10 11:48:35

@Léonard

1. after months there was one update to stacks - carrots - ONE
2. in the meantime we've got cars, planes, radios, several newcomen pump objects, food expansion, new clothing, new apocalypse to craft ...

- - -

my vision

if many objects were stackable, THIS would encourage players to stack them, resulting in a tiny bit more organization - the simple way, fast, without complications & additional objects, right where the things are being produced

after they would be put in stacks you still had the option to organize them better in shelves or whatever else objects, but which you had to make first

players, mostly in beginner bases would make more stacks while in developed towns shelves would be the norm

since stacks are simpler, so stacks have to come first, that's reason

you criticise Jason for struggle & hardship in game
while you are asking for more, new, elaborate aka HARD TO MAKE objects to organize mess in them
crafting & tech is harder to make than stacks
you contradict yourself

- - -

while you are "focused on tech", i am focused on the underlying functionality & flow of the basic goods needed for survival & just simply - life

i would gladly smith some kerosine pump & such, only i am too busy collecting spread plates, bringing broken steel tools back to forge, saving left to despawn straw by collecting elaboriously berries in endless berry bush farms, trying to remove berry bushes while others work fast to spread the farm farther, getting milkweed seeds from afar, trying to survive without clothes because those with a backpack just stand around munching the last pies & ... so ... on

- - -

& btw
i couldn't care less about lineage
i hate to be female in this game
& i like the peace one has while hunting rabbits
yep, you clearly have no clue about me

- - -

Amon · 2019-04-10 12:11:07

Why would anyone want to advance tech if early life were cosy?

Nay. Higher tech should be more aproachable so it seems less /scary/ to learn. Not early tech life a breeze to live in.

Early tech life is a race against lacking.
Lack soil lack water lack food. Lack of space is the same lack.

I still think tomatoes should be edible raw instead of decaying.

Last edited by Amon (2019-04-10 12:13:13)

breezeknight · 2019-04-10 12:21:56

Amon wrote:

Why would anyone want to advance tech if early life were cosy?

you underestimate boredom as motivator

boredom & curiosity

imo
people evolved not because they were driven by lack but because they were bored with the same stuff repeating in a loop
young people in general don't want to do the same stuff their parents & grandparents did, they want to do new stuff
people go out to explore because they are curious if they can find something else, surely not if they can find the same what they have left behind
those are all real motivators to advance & to progress

but Jason was advised by someone who thought that people have to be forced to advance, that technology is mainly the solution to problems
but reality is, people do all kinds of silly stuff just to escape from boredom, griefing included

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-04-10 12:22:29)

futurebird · 2019-04-10 14:14:16

I think we need stacking AND storage tech since one of the "itches" this game scratches for many players is the "impose order on chaos" itch. It's part of what makes it fun. When you have mess that is near impossible to tidy it makes me feel hopeless and less interested. Being in chaotic environment that I can't do anything about isn't fun. So, I think organization is a big issue and I hope we don't get another string of updates that just make organization worse like:
-new things to cook
-new crops
-new things that don't stack
etc.

Whatever · 2019-04-10 14:40:30

futurebird wrote:

I think we need stacking AND storage tech.

Yes, for example if there is a lot of wheat lying around, i want to be able to make a bigger pile,
Lets say up to 5 wheat. And then later i want to be able to craft a barrel which can store up to 20 wheat.

Anandamide · 2019-04-10 20:58:50

DestinyCall wrote:

futurebird wrote:
Grain should not decay if it's in a container. And we need some kind of silo where you can pour like 12 wheat bowls (or flour) and they last basically forever.
We keep getting new cooking items but not new cooking TECH.
A simple solution to the grain storage problem - let us pour bowls of wheat into an rmpty crockpot for storage. Uses an existing item, removes common clutter.

The crock would be nice to use to make a bunch of pie filling at once, maybe we could get a sack(with cloth from the loom) that can be filled with a couple baskets of soil, or a bunch of bowls of wheat/flour. This does require a new item but differentiated items for different tasks is good, especially for storage.

Glassius · 2019-04-10 23:13:52

breezeknight wrote:

people evolved not because they were driven by lack but because they were bored with the same stuff repeating in a loop

No. Human evolution was completely different. Modern people exist for about 200 thousand years, yet significant advancement occured during last 12 thousand years.

This was caused by ecology and is described mathrmatically. People could not develop anything. I will try to explain it on weekend, as it requires some clarifications for Lotka-Volterra formula .

antking:]# · 2019-04-10 23:34:53

for most of human history we have farmed and farmed and got into wars over these farms because of limited space and only basic knowledge of farming we have only recently advanced into an age where most of our population don't have to be farmers to sustain our selves.....

I think that this will help clarify what I mean... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvskMHn0sqQ

breezeknight · 2019-04-11 11:38:44

Glassius wrote:

breezeknight wrote:
people evolved not because they were driven by lack but because they were bored with the same stuff repeating in a loop
No. Human evolution was completely different. Modern people exist for about 200 thousand years, yet significant advancement occured during last 12 thousand years.
This was caused by ecology and is described mathrmatically. People could not develop anything. I will try to explain it on weekend, as it requires some clarifications for Lotka-Volterra formula .

it's at best debatable

you also summed up my entire post to one sentence taken out of context
the initial sentence i replayed to was "Why would anyone want to advance tech if early life were cosy?"
if life is cozy, means there is no struggle, the initial theory was "nobody will advance if there is no hardship & pressure"
i pointed out the pressure of boredom which is a usual occurance if life becomes cozy
also mentioned curiosity as one of the main driving factors of life, especially regarding a new generation

some of the other aspects here are also
- OHOL is not a historic representation of human evolution or human culture development
- mathematical formulas can be at best approximations, they are good for statistical calculations, not to understand what makes living beings change
- the number of people living in a given time is one of the main causes for limited advancement, very often severly underestimated
here a good depiction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUwmA3Q0_OE&t=259s

- - -

Booklat1 · 2019-04-11 14:41:47

if you have to get bored in a game for its content to have use then its a pretty shitty game

breezeknight · 2019-04-11 16:20:19

i didn't say a player "has to get bored"
i only said, that boredom is a possible stimulus to progress
it's not even "the only" stimulus

also

players don't need to get bored, they are actually already
i've met some very bored OHOL players in game, some of them were griefing

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-04-11 16:20:44)

PeaGirl · 2019-04-11 19:19:55

Only thing I really want to decay is dung...
The others mentioned, maybe tomatoes, not dry bean pods, just put them in bowls for gods sake, who hates three sister's soup now?
Wheat and meat are easy to use, and it clutters yes, but it is better to not lose it, especially since this /die function has dried up families to the point that there is not every person in EVERY JOB at all times. Putting decay rate on them would only feel like a punch in the guts on those who are in brink of starving in mid towns.

Amon · 2019-04-11 19:22:40

Maybe it is for some, but most people will just play another game than go out of their comfost zone just due boredom.
The bored player will probably most likely actually turn to griefing than build a car...

Last edited by Amon (2019-04-11 19:22:59)

Booklat1 · 2019-04-16 20:15:51

PeaGirl wrote:

Only thing I really want to decay is dung...
Wheat and meat are easy to use, and it clutters yes, but it is better to not lose it, especially since this /die function has dried up families to the point that there is not every person in EVERY JOB at all times. Putting decay rate on them would only feel like a punch in the guts on those who are in brink of starving in mid towns.

I think this is actually what will make people value the lines they're in, an end to free food.

Tarr · 2019-04-25 20:07:34

Loot from two hours of cleaning trash out of a town. Whatever's client was actually starting to crash on some attempts to teleport items any further out which started slowing down how fast I could move stuff in and out of town. At it's widest the thing is twenty tiles out, at it's longest this mess was twenty eight tiles up and down. Blue outline is mostly to try to show how far this crap was going out while showing how many peppers, eggs, tomatoes, and other crap was picked out of the town.

If this doesn't scream please add decay I don't know what does.

FeignedSanity · 2019-04-25 20:29:22

@tarr

I don't feel like this is necessarily screaming decay. The biggest offenders appear to be the new stuff (onions, tomatoes, & peppers), eggs, and paper. The new stuff makes sense. Jason has just added it, so he'll need time to adjust it like everything else. I think everybody knows, by this point, that when Jason adds something new, he typically rushes just to get it out the door and fixes any problems later. You should be able to get rid of these easier...like maybe just eating them? lol

I guess I can see it with the eggs. If people just went around and killed a majority of the geese, then you'd have less egg spam. I suppose people's laziness and inefficiency doesn't really mean this should decay; but then again, maybe it does. So I'll let you have that one.

But the paper is a different story. The whole point of it is it's longevity. Maybe there should be a way to get rid of it. Maybe after a certain amount of time, it turns to "aged paper" and can be burned.

Everything else isn't really that big of an issue. Take out the above and you're not left with that much.

sdogg2m · 2019-04-25 20:32:36

I don't have time to read the wall of text but for the longest time, I have desired an option to dump a bowl's contents if it is needed. I have been to dozens of camps where bowls were filled with a substance that was apart of a greater recipe that I had no desire to execute. My options at that point were to take a bowl that could be used at station or make more despite dozens laying filled.

Tarr · 2019-04-25 20:38:48

FeignedSanity wrote:

@tarr
I don't feel like this is necessarily screaming decay. The biggest offenders appear to be the new stuff (onions, tomatoes, & peppers), eggs, and paper. The new stuff makes sense. Jason has just added it, so he'll need time to adjust it like everything else. I think everybody knows, by this point, that when Jason adds something new, he typically rushes just to get it out the door and fixes any problems later. You should be able to get rid of these easier...like maybe just eating them? lol
I guess I can see it with the eggs. If people just went around and killed a majority of the geese, then you'd have less egg spam. I suppose people's laziness and inefficiency doesn't really mean this should decay; but then again, maybe it does. So I'll let you have that one.
But the paper is a different story. The whole point of it is it's longevity. Maybe there should be a way to get rid of it. Maybe after a certain amount of time, it turns to "aged paper" and can be burned.
Everything else isn't really that big of an issue. Take out the above and you're not left with that much.

Eggs are in the pile because the town has about twenty goose ponds to the south side of town which are still producing eggs. People pick the eggs and just leave them on the ground which causes clutter and what not which is why they got moved to the town dumping ground. I guess I could just kill all the geese but I didn't want to remove the option for the town to make omelets to reduce clutter.

The new stuff definitely needs to be able to decay as there's at least thirty tomatoes in that picture alone if not more. Onions and peppers also filling that space quite nicely so should definitely decay and what not. On the topic of paper I do think it needs to either age out of existence or be dumpable as most of those papers are either gibberish, nonsense, or random notes people made over the towns existence.

Spoons (which are still new) should be recyclable, sharp rocks should stack, charcoal pencils should go in the trash, pork should decay, eggs should decay, feathers should decay, maybe arrowheads go into the trash, bean pods should decay (like all other seeds.

Basically there's just a lot of crap in game right now that has to just be dumped into an area like this.

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-04-09 14:49:58

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#27 2019-04-09 14:57:23

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#28 2019-04-09 21:19:50

Re: Trash and Decay update.

#29 2019-04-09 21:35:18

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Re: Trash and Decay update.

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#32 2019-04-10 07:29:10

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